. . . to my WW?

I have finally had enough of the lies and lack of working at recovery so I moved out to a place that is big enough for me to excerise what I expect will be 50/50 custody. Because my kids have been taking statewide testing in school thee past two weeks I have not "really" moved out (they will be told tomorrow). However, I have been trying to get my WW to realize that I am prepared for a life without her and have been mentioning the things I have been getting to fill up the apartment.

Well, beginning with me telling her I even got another place to live and each time I tell her of the pieces bought for the apartment (latest were beds for the kids) she comes back with "I guess you've made your decision." I then get somewhat frustrated that she is making it look like I am ending the marriage and attempt to explain along the lines of "the only decision I have made is that I won't live in a home in wehich I am lied to nor where I am made to feel like I am being settled for (she claims to have no contact, my keylogger tells me otherwise - although he wants no contact from her because of me exposing to his STBXW which is now going to cost him double in support - she keeps pursing him with ever increasing lies to keep him intersted), and that I am trying to maintain feelings for her.

Frankly, the keylogger has turned into a double-edged sword. On the one hand I am grateful for it because I learned of the continued contact and lies. On the other hand, I also learned of all the sexual acts they have performed (which I would have been happy to do with her) and am not sure how to get those images out of my head if we get into a real recovery.

So, any advise on what to say to her when she lays it on my as if I am teriminating our marriage would be greatly appreciated. Also, while I am asking for advise, I would love to know how any of you who have also learned too much information about the sex between WS and OP, and recovered, put that information away.

Thanks.

"I then get somewhat frustrated that she is making it look like I am ending the marriage"

you are. you're moving out.

if you dont want to end the marriage, then dont move out. It makes no sense to me that you are moving out now, when you know that the OM is pulling away from her. you need to show that you WONT pull away from her.

Instead of spending money moving out.. go spend $185 talking to the harleys, for some better options for you.

PS: I'd suggest stopipng reading the keylogger for a while. it isnt helping you. sounds like their affair is basically over. Just let it die. It's still kicking for a bit, but no need for you to make a spectacle over its death throes. check back in a month maybe.

SFA, would she not move out herself?

Don't move out.



I snooped effectively like you. It was a blessing in the end. I knew the truth so I didn't have to rely on my now FWW to give it to me and I didn't have to rely on blind trust that what she was telling me WAS the truth.

Regardless of whether you know or not...IT HAPPENED. Neither my wife nor I were virgins when we married so I guess after some time the images go away and OM becomes ancient history like an old boyfriend of hers. I've seen others that WERE virgins upon marriage struggle much more mightily with this issue. That's not to say it's a litmus test. Just an average.

BTW. ...my boundary was I refused to remain in a loveless marriage. However, as long as your WW is in contact with OM their is absolutely no way to speak to her logically. With all affairs the first objective is to bust up the affair...THEN recovery. If you move out you are giving up your daily ability to have any influence on the situation. It's tough to put pressure on the infidels from the outside. Stay home, with the kids...if SHE wants to leave, her choice.

Mr. Wondering

Okay. Now I am really confused. Let me add a few things that were not in my original post.

First, discovery was first made last October. I worked and worked on Plan A. Trying to make myself more attractive physically and financially. Have done a much better job physically (lost 80 lbs so far) than financially. After first things were going much better financially but then I kept making new discoveries which I let put me in a tailspin as I tried to deal with them and ignored my business. Nevertheless, kept up current bills but could not pay on past due bills.

Despite every opportunity to come clean, she continues to maintain a secret email address from which she continues to contact OM. Exposed another of her addresses this week to which she responded "I don't see any problem with having an email account." Problem as I told her was that it was a secret account and she already has one for work and a private one that we use to communicate when needed. So no need for the third one (actually at least her fourth secret address in the past year).

Although OM is presently ignoring her (for the most part), he did respond this week saying that he needed to take a break until his divorce was final. That statement, along with others, says to me only "not right now, but we'll hook up once I’m divorced." So it is not exactly like he is pulling away, just pausing.

Monday is what probably did it for me. She sent him another email telling him that I have moved in with a woman I was pursuing for some time who just got divorced and that I am really the fool for having stated what my marital boundaries were. All lies, but I read it as trying to get him to end his "break" by showing that I, in fact, have no real boundaries and there's no reason he should wait until she or he were divorced. She also told him to remember to think about her when his divorce was final. So I see no indication that his wanting a break is affecting her desire to be with him. If he had definitively told her that he did not want to see her again and she kept trying to get together with him, I think I could handle that. But it appears to me to be no reason to believe that it will die and not pick right back up. How long must I accept her lying before confronting about it and doing something?

She filed for divorce on August 1. Granted she has made no effort to push it ahead and neither I nor her father believe she has fully contemplated the consequences as she somehow thinks I will be responsible for continuing to pay living expenses above any support order.

I cannot live in a house in which I am shown no love or respect. And I don't see that she will show any based on her actions of refusing to do a real no contact letter and her continued untruthfulness. Also, her best friend told me this week that when speaking with her she see's herself hooking up with him agin in the future and that WW stated that she does not think she can remain faithful. After this thing started I thought about our relationship and realized that although I thought her relationship with her then boyfriend was over when we met, it really was not and that every guy she has had a relationship with (except the first one) has been the OM.

I thought that if you do a Plan A and the WS continues the cheating behaviors than Plan B is no contact with that WS? I believe that as long as I am in the house she will believe that I should continue to support the house, that she will continue her ways, and that I will just be sh-t on with her thinking I don't know it. Not good for my mental health to live like that.

I have already signed a six month lease. Despite money being extremely tight, I told WW that I do not look at it as a decision to end things but as an investment in maintaining my feelings for her which I honestly do not think I can do living in a house with her knowing she is continuing to contact him and continuing to lie to me about it.

Mr. W, as for moving out giving up daily ability to have any influence, I believe that I can move out and have some kind of influence because of my involvement with the children and therefore having some kind of contact with my WW. I believe, as do her parents, that if she had to fend for herself without being able to lean on me, she would have a greater chance of seeing the importance of working out our relationship and coming around. How can I live in the house and not let her cake eat (or whatever the expression is)?

As for the keylogger, I really try not to look at it and convince myself that the only reason is in case there is information that would assist me in a potential custody case (which there is no contest expected). I will make a greater effort not to look but will not turn off the email notification so that at least I will know if she is using the secret email address. Just won't look at her emails.

This turned in to a bit of rambling, but I hope I explained my situation a little better. Thanks again to everyone for responses.

I think you really need to talk to the harleys.
no, plan b is not a "punishment" for the ws.


if it was within the last 3 days, you can legaly get out of it if you act TODAY. there is a 3 day cooling off period on most contracts, I think.

if not... see if you can sub-lease it to someone else.


nope. that's not realistic. if you leave, you drop your influence to about 10% of what it would be otherwise. maybe less. your moving out, may be effectively stamping the divorce as "final".


Ok, apologies in advance that this is rather blunt, but you seen to need it:

SHE CAN'T LEAN ON YOU *NOW*!.
You are not meeting your traditional husband role, of being a "good provider", by not paying the bills, etc. This usually pushes women away, no?

My advice to you, non-"expert" though it may be, would be to treat her like merely a roommate (but be polite), stop obsessing on what she is doing, and focus on YOU. Get your life together, get your work together, and be good to your children. (and dont inflict separation, on your children right now. both of you are a mess. neither of you are going to be good parents right now)
I think this would be called a "modified plan B".
Talk to Steve Harley the MC, ASAP, about finer points of doing this.

Techie (all all others) I appreciate what you are saying.

HOWEVER, after my last post I decided to take a last look at her email and discovered that she wrote him this morning acknowldeging that she knows he wants to take a break but how intersted was he in her fulfilling his favorite fantasy. Of course, that got a response that he wants to hear the details.

SO, he is obviously ready to jump right back in when given the opportunity and she is continuing to agressively pursue him.

AND I AM DISGUSTED AND FED UP WITH THIS S-IT!!!

Techie - I understand the importance of financial security to a woman. Frankly, I think that is the major reason why an affair was able to fester, that she was so upset about our situation. I have accepted my responsibility in creating conditions that assisted in the formation of an affair. But let me say that she is not going hungry, has nearly all the material things she wants and even got a boob job and tummy tuck in the past year (which money certainly would have gone a long way toward paying off a lot of our debt) which I was okay with knowing how unhappy she was with her body and that once that was done we would start using her income to catch up on that debt. So it is not like we are destitute.

How can I be expected to live in a house with someone that so desparately wants to have s-x with someone else? Let me add that it greatly reduces my opinion of my WW knowing also that this guy has absolutley no interest in anything more than having s-x with her (and has clearly stated that to her) and that she is apparently okay with that (although she has developed feelings for him).

It does not look like this thing is anywhere near over.

SFA:

Your right, this is no where near over, but by moving out, you give her the leverage. Cancel the Lease. 3 day limit does not apply here, but if you haven't moved in, usually easy to break. If you charged the 1st months rent and sec depoist, you can reverse it with the C/C company, and/or stop payment of the check.

So what if she hates you, she is in the FOG.

Be the lighthouse.

Why are you moving out??

The only probable result of that is that she can now feel more comfortable inviting the OM into your home and into your bed.

Is that your intent?

If she insists in her behaviour, go to "Plan B" and ask HER to leave.

OK, SFA, you and I have not seem to crossed paths...my advice is this:

First- reach into your pants pockets and feel around...

GOOD you have found your balls!!! Now put them to work...

Why have you not exposed to her you're aware of her lies? All of them? Of the Secret accounts, of the continued contact and begging? Let the OMW (or soon to be XW) know too. You need to throw in every sort of hinderence you can muster....

Don't leave...and do not put up with it.....

Good luck sir....but it is time to man up....

First and foremost I wouldn't move out because you are not aware of the ramifications that may have in family court.

Forget about everything else you are assuming a 50-50 custody split. Are you fully aware that you moving out may make it impossible for that to happen?

Do you have an arangement in place now? UMMMM. You better make sure your ducks are in a row my friend.

In my state if I leave and do not have custody in writing I would be hosed. It is he said she said and she always wins in those situations.

I would take a step back and not move out.

I can understand your frustration but do not make it worse on yourself.

I agree you should expose to everyone first including the OM's W. He may be blowing smoke about the D.

Then go to plan B if necessary but you certainly do not need to move out.

To add to the others -

Your children need some sense of normalcy/security through all of this and so need to be in the family home with the parent who is the sanest, most rational, most stable.

And that would be you.

Your children must be stabilized...this is the first/most important thing you need to do as their father.

Leaving now makes absolutely no sense and will further harm your children.

Follow the plans A and B knowing that in the end you may not want to recover with her, but you need to try and save the marriage regardless.

What ever love you may or may not have left for your WW remains to be seen and won't be known for quite some time into recovery.

Thanks for the responses.

1. I will not get the house. Her parents own it. She is not going to leave the home. I fully understand about the reasons for not moving out and especially the possibility that she would use my bed, besides my kids being here, is a big factor in me not going anywhere. Leaving would be a great deal of pressure on her to figure out how she will pay the expenses of the house and her share of the kids expenses along with her own. Staying I will have to put up with her b-tiching about needing money for one reason or another and then the wrath that comes with me saying no.

2. She filed for divorce on August 1. It is in a court before a judge that will be very receptive to my position. In our state you can file in any court as long as the other side does not object. I am the one that suggested she file in the court she did.

3. I will get at least 50/50 custody. The petition in fact requests that joint custody be granted. It has been made clear that that will be the case.

4. I am glad there has been more discussion regarding exposure. I intended on posting some questions regarding that. The reason I have not made full disclosure of everything I know is if were needed in the future for a custody fight. In my state, if the court does not make a determination of custody but simply signs an agreed order, the whole history comes in if a modification is sought. Also would be very useful in an original custody action. My leaving would not affect my ability to get my kids, especially in a true joint custody situation.

5. Regarding exposure, I have probably fifty pages of emails that were saved at the time I discovered the password. His divorce is pending and proceeding, albeit not quickly. I intend to call his STBXW tomorrow to check on status. Do I just bombard them with the knowledge I have? As I write this, I tend to beleive that he will find the whole matter a pain and may finally walk away. I do have the balls to weather the storm of her anger if I expose. Or shall I save the knowledge gained by the new email address and expose all I have under her old one> Frankly, he works for a public agency and I am sure there is some rule about the way he has graphically described things while he is at work and using ther computers. Wouldn't mind getting him fired (though I suppose I would feel bad for his STBXW who would lose significant child support. Do I send documents to the head of the agency he works for?

5. My things have been out of the house since January. The apartment is 1/2 mile away in same school district. I do get mixed signals from her though I tend to beleive it is all about me staying to help support her. Especially in light of her comments to her friend about her believing she would cheat again.

6. Though difficult financially, I want to keep the apartment in case it doesn't work. However, I can get out with some financial loss that I can deal with if there is truly a chance at recovery.

Other jumbled thoughts will be added later tonite.

Thanks for the assists.

Depending on what state you live in, she can be forced to leave(legal separation). It's that way here in Minnesota. Go that way. If your state is not a 'no-fault' divorce state, the affair is ammunition for you. It can be a factor in the custody case, however. It could prove many things, neglect for the children for one, because she had to have neglected the children while building, maintaining, and covering up her secret life.

Do you want reconciliation? If so, why has everyone ignored the Plan B scenario? Why are all you posters not looking at it as it was meant to be? So you may not be paying ALL of the bills, but what if you weren't paying ANY that involved her?

My wife once said to someone else in one of her rare moments of clarity that it would be easier to get back together with me if I weren't around. Sounds like an oxymoron, but it is a sign of the potential effectiveness of a good and strongly abided by Plan B, as laid out by Dr. Harley. I know I am not one to comment on that one, because when I had my 'chance' at a Plan B, I could not find the strength to do it right, and now I won't take the chance for fear of the neglect and possible abuse my kids would endure if I did leave and she invited 'him' back into the living arrangements.

With the keylogger, you have a little more power than you think. You have given yourself with that the information you need to be able to contact the other man, and expose her lies to him by you telling him the truth. You can also throw a cog into the machine by letting him know you will not be the one to make things easy for them, and you intend not only to be a thorn in the side of any relationship they may try to have, but an earthquake to their 'happy' landscape. Find out more about him and spill the beans to all who you can discover are connected to him. If you can get to his wife, you can team up with her to expose it, because she is a link in the chain connected to his world, and it will also give her ammunition to make his life hard, and make him look bad. Make life hard for him, then, if confronted by your wife, play dumb. Make him wish he had never met your wife.