I agree with the others. Lay low and get your information.

Hiring a PI in NYC is VERY expensive. So that is the reason I have not hired one yet. Money is VERY tight right now with no steady income coming in. So I am saving here and there to get the money I need. Can a PI find out who she is? He can see them together, take pictures, but can he tell me a name and address and phone number for her?

I have installed a key logger. He is not on our home computers much, but they are installed.

I am a conflict avoider, but I am trying not to be. I guess right now I feel like if I say nothing to him I am once again being a CA. In my mind I feel like I have all the information I need. My WH is having an affair. He brought his OW out in public and introduced her to his collegues. What more do I need to know?

Exposure will be the challenge. Finding people to expose to. I believe exposure is for those that can help make a difference in our situation. Not just to tell everyone I know. I will make a list of people I will expose to.

I think one problem is I am having a hard time doing Plan A. I am having a hard time meeting his needs. Right now I am having a hard time even looking at him. I am angry right now. I don't show it, but I am. I am nice and pleasant. We have conversation. I am a good wife. I just don't feel like he deserves a good wife right now.

I know you are all thinking, well do you want to save your marriage or not. I do. I just need to come to grips with all of this AGAIN. Last year I found out about OW. I was stupid to think it ever stopped.

I know some of you will be frustrated with me, but I am going to try this time. I just need to convince myself it is worth it. I honestly think the only thing that will possibly help is Plan B. M WH does not want to lose his family. He does not want to move out. He wants BOTH of us and I am NOT willing to share.

You can't do plan B yet. Nope.
Your next step is EXPOSURE.

You have all the information YOU need.
You do NOT have all the information OTHERS will need to believe you over him.

You simply MUST get more information before you can expose this. Obviously he is not going to cave in and admit everything -- from your confrontation prior to his trip is obvious that he's going to go silent on you. The next step is that he will come up with a story to cover his tracks.

So is a PI more expensive than a divorce? Put things into perspective! Get creative -- find someone just getting into the business. Do what you can through phone records, bank statements etc. Go to the Snooping 101 thread.

PI's are always expensive. There are other tools at your diposal. Use zabasearch.com to see if you can pull up any info on the OW.

Make an exposure plan, secure your finances, setup your personal support group, identify your boundaries, reassure your children of your love and support, make your children part of your support group and be a part of theirs. Get IC for you and the children.

As for dealing with the WS who is smug about his A? He thinks he is fooling you but he isn't. Use that to your advantage. I used to do things like sniff the air and ask if he could smell that strange awful stench. Of course he couldn't. I was referring to the A and he wanted to pretend there wasn't one. But I knew better so the 'stench' stayed and I reminded him of it periodically. It became the way I vented on him and it drove him nuts. Eventually he said his nose must not be working right. Well at least he admitted something wasn't right on him. That was a start and eventually the rest of his senses were put to the test. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Slow and steady. Remember plan A is NOT about you fixing him. It is about you helping yourself stay on course. So what is your plan A? Do you have a good MC? Can you call Steve for a plan?

L.

This is a very good thing. Provide opportunity for him to use it. When he is home say you have to run to the store. If there is a night he plans to be home YOU make plans to go out...even if you sit in your car around the corner.(he doesn't have to know that)



He won't allow you to meet his needs because he is in A. Plan A is about making a safe/enjoyable home for your family. WH is not a member of your family your H is. Be the best mother/wife/person you can be...with what you have...your standard not his. YOU need to feel good about yourself and not be at the mercy of his whims.

The more info you can give PI the cheaper it will be. His schedule and routine you know of, cell phone calls, email, check bank and mac card statements for pattern of cash use, check credit card reciepts, set up accounts on line to do this. Part of exposure is exposing OW....bringing reality in...maybe her family wouldn't be thrilled she was spending her time w/another woman's H. I think the keylogger will give you alot. Make it easy for him to use the computer.

Mean while get your ducks in a row. Open a bank account of your own. Apply for a credit card in your name only they have a lot of offers out there for 0% take a cash advance to hire PI. Get a PO Box. Make a yahoo account for yourself.
Find out where his money is and how he is using it.

Plan A....expose...no response>>>>PLAN B.

LitC,

A few thoughts:

PIs are very expensive and the results are more often than not nothing to write home about. Better to watch the key logger for a week or two first.

Save the $ as you are doing but use it to talk to the MB Counseling center instead.

Remember, false recoveries are the norm. Very few WS end the A on D-Day 1.

Bottom line, you know he is having an affair. It does not matter how well he lies about it. You know. We know. God knows.

Your plan should be:

1. Call the Harleys. You will be told when and how to optimally confront, for one thing.
2. Watch the key logger.
3. Prepare for Plan B. Might require talking to an attorney about a legal separation and a court ordered eviction. Plan B accompanied by a restraining order. (Seems you have been doing a pretty good Plan A all along, but let the Harleys judge that.)
4. Lovingly detach. This takes practice.
5. No LBs or DJs. No R talks.
6. Pray.

Oh, see if you can get the Denver hotel bill. All phone calls charged to the room will be on the bill. Also, get access to his cell billing if you do not already have it. (If he will not give it to you, that’s more evidence right there.)

With prayers,

I like Cha-Cha's suggestions.

I also agree with Aphelion regarding calling the Harleys.

However, I think that you need to find out who this woman is. You can specifically ask the PI to help you with this. They have sources. I was specific about what I wanted from the PI which made it less expensive. I did most of the "detective" work on my own..but the PI found ber address, phone number and the car she drove...

I got the impression that Steve agreed with the need to know as much as possible about the OW. He certainly asked me specifics about her. So getting this information will help make the most of a session with him which is also expensive...like the PI.

As someone else has indicated to you, any cash that you can use for these purposes is certainly money well spent...to save your family.....

Hi, Lost.

No advice, just checking in. Did you find a profile for her online at all?

It might be a little late now, but could you reply to the "nice to meet you and OW" e-mail you saw .... as a way of exposing? "Dear ......, Thank you for your kind e-mail, but it confused me. I'm certain you met WH at that event, but I wasn't with him, and my name is Lost, not OW. I was at our home that evening, with our children, keeping his dinner warm..... perhaps you met someone else instead? .... "

Maybe you can start insisting on going to these events with him? He can't be introducing OW around if you're there .... and you may be able to make some new contacts who can help you keep watch when you can't be there?

I really have no idea, I'm just throwing out ideas.

Mostly, just feeling for you! I can imagine how frustrating this must be for you right now.

-AmI.

How are you today?

Still thinking about you...don't make us worry! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Hi Guys! Thanks for caring! No news here. WH is still WH. I have found nothing on the OW yet. Keylogger is showing nothing, yet.

My WH seems as though he is mad at me. Is this because I confronted him and told him I KNOW about OW. And I also sent OW and email saying he is married with 3 children. I'm sure he knows about it. So maybe he is mad about that. He does not say he is mad and he has been home at a very reasonable hour this week, but still his attitude is one of being mad or sad, not sure which.

This is where I struggle because I tend to react to his emotions. I am NOT going to take this personally. I am in the right and he is in the wrong. So I am being my happy go lucky self and trying VERY hard not to let HIS emotions set the mood in the house.

Thanks for checking in on me!! I will try to do a better job of updating! the CA in me would rather read and focus on other people's problems instead of my own!!

Cha Cha - How are you doing? I will find your thread.

AmI - How are you? Will check your thread also.

Mimi - I am going to see if I can get the money to call SH. I think that would be a good idea!

Hi, Lost!

Glad you checked in.

I think that if you are going to be in Plan A, it's got to be about more than just being your cheery self. That's a great start, and being responsible for your own moods and emotions is also huge .... so a big pat on the back for that!

But you also need to have the "stick" part of Plan A. You need to be authentic and real and expose as much as you can. Plan A is about ending the affair, and not enabling it.

I realize that exposure in general is proving to be difficult, hard to find appropriate contacts, etc. But I think part of the exposure needs to be with your WH, too. You don't have to get into a lot of R talk, but you also shouldn't sweep things under the carpet.

Let him know what you know ... dont' worry about his response or lack of one.

"I know that you are having an affair. It is ripping my heart in half."

"I know that you have been presenting yourself as a couple in public with OW, while I am here keeping our home and taking care of our children. I feel betrayed and discarded."

"I am not ok with you continuing to commit adultery."

"I feel very anxious about you going into the city today, I fear that you are planning on meeting with your adultery partner. Will you please give me your schedule for the day?"


I'm the ultimate CA .... so I know it's not easy to get things like this out of your mouth .... LA has been working on me for a VERY, VERY long time trying to help me with this. It's not easy, and I always have to remind myself that if I want O&H, then I have to BE O&H .... and have to give him the information. He needs to know how I feel, and he can't know that if I'm pretending that everything is ok all the time. Your H needs to know, too. I think it's time to start learning how to get those things out of your mouth!

You can do it .... I did!

-AmI.

GREAT!!!!

Even just one session will be well worth it for you!!!

Ask Steve EXACTLY what to SAY and what to DO and he will tell you.

I'll be waiting to hear what Steve says.

Regarding your WH, mainly keep your eyes and ears open.

I think he's waiting for your response because he KNOWS that you contacted the OW.

It might be alright to keep him anxious for a bit. I think that's what you are seeing. He has no idea what you might do so he's not seeing her.

I think you are blowing his mind with your CHEERINESS which is PLAN A at this point.

He probably wants you to blow up at him..which is what he is expecting.

My vote is for calling STEVE ASAP..as in YESTERDAY!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Let us know what HE recommends.

So, lost, what are you doing?

Hi LitC,

Just wondering how you are doing.

Hi guys! Thanks for checking in on me! Nothing new to report. Key logger shows nothing yet.

My WH is now being unusually available and nice! He tells me where he is and where he is going. Of course I believe none of it. I mean, anyone can LIE about where they are!

I am not falling for it. I see it as a WH pattern. I found out evidence of his affair and now he is going to be nice to me and try to make me forget. Stupid I am NOT!

I'm still weighing all my options. I guess I am still in Plan A for now.

WH will never move out. I don't really understand why. Classic cake eater I guess.

Thanks for checking on me!

Its a tactic that worked for him before....he's expecting it will again.
The difference will be "you". Are you ready to change this dance? Its really easy to normalize this. Go back and read your first post. There was an awful lot of passion and fire. Where is that now?
I hope you're not settling.

Its OK to analyze your options -- but at the end of that you need to have a plan, and you need action. Whats not OK is to weigh your options and do nothing.

When you first posted about his renewed/continuing affair, I took that to mean that you were going to do something about it -- now its already 2 weeks later and virtually *nothing* has been done, nor do you have a plan.

You said in your earlier posts that last year when you first discovered the affair you confronted them both -- how do you not know who the OW is if you confronted her back then???

I don't mean to scold you Lost -- I just hope you will actively utilize the tools and advice here.

Lost:

My heart literally aches for you. Tears came to my eyes when I read your post.

I have been sooo there where you are and I was so mistaken.

I'm praying that your experience with your H is different than mine was.

I stay on MB to help others.. like you..learn from my mistakes. I wish someone had been around to WARN me as I am warning you..but maybe I wouldn't have listened...

But I do pray for you to be as happy as I am now, Lost.

Believe me and hear me when I say this:

*Denying and enabling his affair increases the likelihood that he will fall more deeply in what he believes to be "in love" with her.
*You will be more attractive and loveable to your H when he begins to RESPECT you.
*NEVER MAKE THE ASSUMPTION THAT HE WILL NOT LEAVE YOU..because if he feels that he is IN LOVE with her and wants to be with her..and if he knows that you do not love him enough TO FIGHT for him..TO FIGHT for what is YOURS..he very well MAY LEAVE YOU....

I know this stings. I know this hurts because I LIVED THIS.

I had to HOLD MY HEAD UP.. to STAND UP AND and to FIGHT FOR MY MARRIAGE...

That's what made me turn to this forum on a Christmas Day when my H was acting MEAN AS THE DEVIL for no apparent reason..still saying.."THERE IS NO ONE ELSE"..Oh, how I wanted to believe him...A week later, I caught him with her..all with the eye-opening assistance and encouragement from folks on the MB FORUM...

Being nice, closing my eyes to what he was doing, pretending that it wasn't happening when he PLAYED NICE to me was leading him STRAIGHT TO HER.....

Thanks guys. I DO know that he is playing a game. I am just not buying it this time. I am still deciding if I even WANT my marriage or not.

I DO NOT know who OW is. I have sent her 2 emails, one last year and one a few weeks ago. PI is out of the question for now, but I am saving money for that. I dont need any more proof for myself, but to get proof for further exposure.

Two weeks does not seem like a long time to me to gather my thoughts and make a plan.

Classic MB is Plan A, exposure, Plan B. I feel like I am all Plan A'd out! Exposure has been difficult although I have done what I can with not knowing who the OW is. Plan B is what I want but WH WILL NOT move out. Don't know why.

It amazes me how many people have no morals or values that they KNOW about an affiar and DO NOTHING. People KNOW my WH is married with 3 children, yet CHOOSE to not get involved. I have very little faith in people right now.

Believe me, my eyes aren't closed! I am WIDE AWAKE for the first time in a long time. I am no longer acting with my heart (emotion), but my brain.

I have lost a lot of love for my WH since I found out he took his OW out in public. It makes me sad, because I am a complete romantic and my family is my life.

Thank you for checking in on me!

Hi LITC,

How did you find out? Who told you that took OW out in public? Can you use that person to find out who she it? Or at least start with that person? Just wondering, wish I had more to offer - Dru