I'm at a critical point. My M is at the brink of D. It's all done except final approval of draft by my H and our signatures.

I have waffled for the last 2.5 years; separated.

My whole sordid story is here for any who care to read it all.

Cliff notes version (sorry this ended up so long):
Married x 9.5 years.
H - 2 kids: D 21 and S 20.
me - 1 D 14; H adopted her at age 7.

As a family, bad relationships all around. Don't much like my stepkids and the feelings are mutual. My opinion is that they were taught to use H by their mom and they continue in that today.

My D has been taught some bad ways by me as well. I haven't disciplined like I should in part b/c I didn't want to bring negative attention to her. Wanted her to be "perfect" in my H's eyes so he would love her. Feel bad that I made poor choices so that my first H walked away from both of us. My choices left her w/no dad so I didn't want to mess up the second one but did anyway!

H had first A in our first year of marriage. I found out via VMs OW left and he didn't erase. I knew things were bad between us but would never have thought he would cheat. That is in part my fault b/c I knew he had cheated on his first wife but believed his version of the story and did not think he would cheat on me. No, our R was not the product of an A. I had been divorced for 1.5 years before I ever met him.

There were red flags that I recognize now but didn't then b/c I was "in love". I was lonely when I met him and was totally infatuated overnight. He is a real charmer and I fell for it all.

Early on, we had problems w/his kids trying to manipulate. They turned our house upside down and it was really, really bad. H blames part of that on his A.

Had and still have bad R w/my SS. Okay R w/SD.

Thought H was a conservative spender but found out he likes fancy, expensive trucks and bikes. Didn't matter that his company sold out and we bought a company and his first year salary was around $8k, next year around $10k, sold it and then he made around $20k. I made good money and he helped himself.

Prior to M I lied about my teenage past. One thing I did was something he couldn't tolerate so I lied about it. About 4 months before we separated I finally confessed to him. His response was to move his son, wife, baby into our home over my strong objection. That was his way of getting back at me for the lie.

H stopped going to church service by service. I started a friendship up w/a divorced guy at church. I suppose to many here it would be considered an EA and maybe it was. I never had any contact w/him outside of church, never met him anywhere, etc. But, my H begged me to come home, begged me to stop talking to him, begged me to stop going to church.

Our M was so far gone by that time that I felt such liberation in the separation. He had cursed me so many times, and had finally gotten to the point of being physical. Never hitting but throwing things or shoving me around. But, the biggest part was the verbal and emotional abuse. He threatened to tell everyone about my past. Threatened me so many times in so many ways that I just got numb. He kept catering to his son and I just got sicker and sicker and sicker of the whole thing.

I loved him but couldn't tolerate the life we were living anymore. We might have lived at the same house but we didn't have a R. And, when his son was around, there was no room for anyone else.

Fast forward to now. He has now had another affair, resumed R w/2nd XW about 2 years ago, had a couple of other relationships that either he lied about to me or to others to make himself look like a stud. A friend of his told me that my H told him that he slept w/at least two other women and there was talk of others. Was he lying to make himself look good or did he really have that many affairs? Who knows. Anyway, he has not been honest about all that yet. I heard a phone conversation between him and one of them and, if you heard it, you would be convinced that he had a sexual R w/her.

Anyway, the verbal, emotional abuse has continued and is cyclical. He feels bad about it and calms down for a few weeks but, I make him mad, so he starts back up.

So, all that to say this:

My D wants it over. Doesn't care if she ever sees him again.
My family wants it over.
I've had many people who know my H well tell me that he is an absolute jerk and that not many people like him when they get to know him well.

I have to insert here that he is the kind of person that would go overboard to help someone even if that help is not reciprocated when he needs help.

He is now saying he is going to pack up and move away. His kids don't care, he hurts everyone he comes in contact with, no one loves him, his family doesn't care, and he can't have me so he's leaving. He can't stay here and see me w/OM. Now, I haven't talked to the guy at church in about a year and he has a girlfriend that is with him at church 85% of the time. But, H still accuses me of talking to him, etc. Totally untrue.

I have one person who I talk to about this and that person feels that it's all a big production to make me feel sorry for him and get me to come back home. He does make me feel sorry for him.

He is still talking to the woman he had A w/and his XW. I see it on the cell bill that he hides but I see online. He gets mad at me and calls OW and takes her and her parents to dinner or goes to their house. Always taking calls from her kids or XW or her kids "FOR ADVICE" about home repair kind of stuff.

I also have lied incessantly to him. I can rationalize why but wrong is wrong. I lied many times out of fear of what h would do if he found out I did whatever. Also, lied to him about talking to OM but he was spying on me at church and saw me talking to guy in parking lot.

Anyway, I am scared. Scared that I'm making a mistake by not trying one more time. He has told me repeatedly that he would do anything I asked hi

L2S,

U need a {{{{hug}}}}}. Now tell me again....why is it that you feel the need to save your M? The reason is not about the fact that u r a good person, w or mother but why would you want to be in a M as is?

L.

L2S

Plan B him. Tht way you get to excercise a proven MB technique while you also get to live in peace away from the storm of chaos and hurt.

Over time either your H will mellow and you will feel amenable to trying again with the "new" H, else you will quite like living without him and will move to divorce without chaos or panic.

Read up on "hurtinginokla". She thought she'd never meet anyone either for the reasons you cite, and now she's actully deliberately taking it slow with a nice gentleman after her divorce <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Nobody can make you feel small withour your permission.

all blessings

I agree wholeheartedly with Bob P. Time for plan B. It is for YOU. Get out of the madness and find yourself....

Every person that goes thru what you are feels as if there is no hope for your future. I know I did...and I was quite wrong...but you need to feel better about yourself first...then everything else follows.....

(((((life2short)))))

Here's another question for you to ponder a little: Do you want ANY marriage or any man that doesn't have God as it's, or his, center?

It's all right there in your name.

I agree with the others, take yourself and your precious daughter out of this sitch and find peace and happiness. Doesn't look like it is possible to have that with him...so make it for yourself and DD, now before she is grown up and gone.

Orchid,

Because I don't value myself enough to believe that I deserve better. I SAY I deserve better but, my actions prove otherwise. I WANT to have better. I really don't want to be married to someone who loved me so little that he could share the most intimate part of our relationship w/someone else; multiple someone else's all b/c I didn't do what he wanted/expected me to do.

But, the getting there is my problem. I second, third, fiftyith guess myself to death. God must be so sick of me praying to Him for signs, confirmation.

As for doing a Plan B, I don't know how in my present circumstance. We own a small company together and my part is the paperwork. My D goes to "his" house after school each day and I pick her up from there; I was the one who moved out.

I know the answer. You all have confirmed for me the answer. I just need to go ahead and finish it. I need to move forward and let him have his life back.

He's telling me that he is moving away where no one knows him to start all over b/c he can't bear the thought of seeing me w/someone else. Close friends think he's just yanking my chain. Trying to do and say whatever will work to get me back and then he'll go back to his old ways w/in 6 months.

Thanks all for your responses. You've pretty much said what I thought. I've followed hurtinginokla's story. Hers and others have given me so much hope. I know what I want to do and what I need to do. It's just the actual doing that I struggle with.

Thanks so much.

(((L2S)))

Honey, you've been thru so much. I know you feel in limbo, and scared to move forward.

I just want you to know that we're here no matter what you decide. I'll never get tired of reading your posts. So no need to feel as a burden.

You already know what I feel about your situation, so I won't continue to beat it to death. Only you know, deep down, what is best for you and your daughter.

My heart goes out to you and your daughter, and I want you to know that you are always in my thoughts and prayers. You are welcome to e-mail me anytime you feel the need.

(((L2S))) Praying for peace, strength, and courage for you!

Jen

God Grant me the SERENITY
To accept the things
I cannot change,
COURAGE to change the things I can and
WISDOM to know the difference.

Amen.

Orchid: Now this I understand. Low self esteem. I take it you have been the primary giver. You not only want to have better but you need to have better. You deserve to have better. Ok, you are on the right track. Stop looking back at what he wanted or expected you t/d. Why? Because he isn't willing t/d his share. Oh yea.....it's a 2 way street. You've got a taker u know and she's gonna be mad soon. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



Orchid: Stop the berating yourself. God isn't sick of you praying. As long as it is from the heart. He doesn't hear a WS babble prayer. You will get support but not a pity party, ok?



Orchid: When can you move back in? Isn't it your home also? Plan B is about you taking care of you. Plan A is about you learning how to make self-improvements and then making them.

Where are you at identifying your real boundaries?



Orchid: You want us to tell you what t/d. No can do. You have to learn and apply it for it to stick. Otherwise, when the going gets tough you are gonna come here and blame us. No good. OUr suppose is to help you stand on your feet and beat this A crap. R U ready to fight for your survival?



Orchid: Babble, pure WS babble. I heard the same crap.... I told the WS he can run but he can't hide so why bother? Better to be a man, face his consquences. You can do it together as a family or he can take the coward's way out and do it by himself. See how your words and change the direction of his babble? Powerful stuff here.



Orchid: This is the hard part. But you are not alone nor are you the 1st or the last. So we are stuck in the middle with you.....as the song goes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Then another song says that we will survive. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Keep hummin'! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.

Jennifer 68, Orchid, SMOMW, Weaver,
Thanks to all of you for the responses. You'll never know how much you all mean to me. You're my lifeline. I have to be careful what I say or how much I say to friends/family here. Like I said before, it gets old after awhile.

I don't see a way to repair the marriage I have. He is no longer in church. Says he wants to go, intends to go, will go but........ he isn't in church and hasn't been except 4-5 times in the past 3.5-4 years. And no, I don't want a R w/someone who isn't committed to God. I know you don't have to go to church to be committed but, he wouldn't be doing what he's doing if he was committed to God or to our M.

I can't get past the multiple affairs. I know of one for a fact and I know circumstantial evidence about 3 more, including his XW.

My heart feels sorry for him and the shape his life is in right now but, he didn't feel sorry for me when he was lying to me and seeing the OW. Didn't feel bad about going to a MC all the while still seeing OW. Didn't feel bad or sorry for me when he put one of the women on speaker phone w/her playing w/herself while talking to him and his cousins, son, brother and employee were there listening and then I went around these people not knowing this. Didn't feel bad for me the numerous times he has threatened to commit suicide b/c we couldn't work things out.

I'm rambling but, we have allowed to much to happen and have involved too many people, in my opinion, to be able to put the M back together.

Just please keep giving advice and helping me sort this out. I have to give him some changes to the draft settlement agreement. I can't take it back to the attorney again unless I know he agrees w/all. I've already spent $2k and have nothing to show for it.

Thanks all.

You say u r on the brink of the D but seem t/b wavering. Do you know why?

L.

Orchid,
I saw your last post early this morning and I've thought about your question all day.

I think the bottom line is I want to be married. I am in love with the man I dated. I detest the man I have found myself married to.

I want to be married to someone who:
loves me
cherishes me
spends time with me
doesn't choose others over me
doesn't put me last
can maintain a decent R w/my family who are very important to me; from them I get unconditional love
has interests in common w/mine that we can share
has same general values and morals
has an interest/desire/will to be in church
has the same general goals in life as I do
thinks family is important

I waver where the D is concerned because I'm scared. I'm scared that when it is all over I am going to be alone for the rest of my life and I am going to look back and wish I had not ended it. I know that's a crazy statement. But, I know that my H, in very short order, will be w/someone else. He probably is already talking to that person now all the while trying to convince, coerce, me into saying we can try to repair the marriage.

He continually says and does things to try and get me to pity him (I think). The reason I say that is that he has been telling me for two weeks now (actually a lot longer but the latest episode started about two weeks ago) that he is going up north to see his daughter and then is going to try to find a town somewhere where no one knows him and he can move there and start all over. Our business is one that could be done from anywhere and he has all the stuff necessary to pick up and start it over again anywhere.

He says he cannot stay here without me in his life. He cannot handle the thought of bumping into me and me being w/someone else.

He is telling me that he is going to get everything set up so that the employees in the company will have enough work to do through December. Either I can do the paperwork or he will get someone else to do it; in the past this has meant XW but he hasn't come out and said that.

He's talking about renting a compact car to take the trip in. We have a Harley motorcycle. That has been his baby. He gets it in the D settlement agreement that we've drawn up. Earlier this week he told me that he thought he had it sold. Today, he had me get the title from the fire box and he left the house on it w/his brother following him and said he had it sold.

I don't really believe that. Earlier in the year he was planning to buy another mcycle w/money he got for jobs he didn't run through the company and was going to hide it at the OW's parent's home so that I wouldn't get half in the settlement. I heard it on the tape I had running in the house that he didn't know about.

Anyway, for some reason I really think he has staged this and has taken the bike to a friend's house and is just trying to make it look like he sold it. I could be wrong. Just a feeling. Almost like him saying through this action: "Okay. Now's your chance to say we'll work it out before I go any farther".

I do not feel in my heart or soul or head the need to go back home. Early on I went back home 3 -4 times for a week or two at a time b/c he was pressuring me and saying if I didn't it was over. So, I went back. Now, I have no desire to go home. My D doesn't want to be there. My family doesn't want me there. I was seeing a counselor at work (employee assistance program). Her take (and granted it was all based on my side of the story alone) was that he would continue to cheat and continue to say and do to me what he was saying/doing.

I have absolutely no trust where anything he says or does is concerned. Hearing him on the tape for the almost two months the tape was going I found out just how much he was lying to me and to OW and to others.

Anyway, I didn't mean to ramble on for so long. I waffle because I care about him and I have the need to rescue him. I think about him alone in another town and not knowing anyone and having medical problems that require health insurance and him not having any and on and on and on...........

I wish he could change. I wish the damage to the R w/my family could be repaired. I wish I could turn the clock back to before all the cheating, all the lies (mine and his). I wish I could turn the clock back to the day I met him and be able to do it all over again.

I allowed him to pressure me into a physical R before I was ready (threatened to find someone else if I wouldn't sleep w/him - so I did). Pressured me into marrying him soon - I wanted to date at least 2 years but caved to his pressure and married after dating 7 months.

Anyway - I'm in a mess. Financially I'm in a great position thank God - literally. Emotionally, I'm in a mess.

A quick update...............
H is saying that he is leaving today. Is going to make arrangements for workers to keep going for the next few weeks and he is going to leave today. Not sure where to but is heading toward the mountains. Going to look for a town where he can settle down and start over.

No one believes this, including me. I don't believe he sold the bike. Don't believe he's moving to start over. I do believe he may be going out of town for the weekend.

When I asked him this morning who he sold the bike to, he would not give me the name and kept saying the cell phone was breaking up.

All just a game.

Oh well. More later. Just pray for me that I've done the right thing by not caving and going back home.

(((L2S)))

Thinking of you and sending good and positive thoughts your way.

It may be a game he's playing. But if it weren't, this could be viewed as a good thing, of him moving away. This could very well be what is needed to move forward. The daily contact, (or lack there of) would be a step towards recovery for you.

But I know it still hurts, nevertheless. Just focus on you and your daughter, and let him play his game all by himself. Don't take the bait. THAT is what he counts on.

(((L2S))) Keep us posted.

He has been threatening to move since we separated 2.5 years ago. He has been threatening suicide for a long time, too. I certainly don't want the latter.

I agree that him moving would simplify the D and recovery process.

My sister, two friends and I did a "girls night out" at my sister's vacation house about an hour away. We had a good time. On the way there I stopped by the house. Saw H. He had the suitcase on the bed with socks and underwear packed; several pair of jeans on the bed along w/a handgun.

I said my goodbyes. Told him I love him and that I hope he can find whatever it is he is going to find. I did not call back and haven't talked to him since. He left two VMs for me telling me how much he loves me and how much he misses my love and that he is going through a lot of pain. Said he's sorry he ruined it and wishes he could have me back.

Other one said he didn't leave last night as planned but would leave tonight or tomorrow. Then on the other told me his plans and then told not to get too excited b/c he was leaving later than expected.

I don't THINK he is going to move. I THINK he may have planned a couple of days away; wouldn't be surprised to find that he is taking a woman w/him. I don't think he sold the bike; think he hid it to make me think I better do something or he will be gone. I think he's playing another game.

I wish things could have been different. Down side is that he is leaving w/o papers signed but, that's my fault in a way. I kept putting off making the changes b/c every time I change papers he changes his mind.

I just pray that I can continue w/the peaceful feeling I have right now. I think NC is the best way to go. I just have a very hard time doing that. I pray that I'm making the right decision and that I have truly read God's will in this correctly.

If he threatened suicide, you should tell him to get help or you call 911. When mine did that, I called 911 because previously an officer told me t/d that even if it was just a hunch. In my case, it paid off. The WS called me from a motel (motel6 - hate that chain) with OW in the room and alluded that he was going to end it. Well I didn't know where he was nor was I aware he was with the OW. So I took his message to mean he was 'ending it' literally. His older brother was sychophrenic and did commit suicide so I did not take any chances. I called 911 and once the WS was located (phone tracking by police), about 4 officers went out there I heard play by play of the confrontation. Then the OW ran away from the WS (guess she didn't want to get caught!??!?!) and proceeded to call me to yell at me for making trouble. The idiot oW didnn't realize I already had been in touch with the officer at the scene and the dispatcher who guided me along the way. The OW was furious I would not cower to her threats. I informed the police of her call as well.

My point is not to pretend he won't leave or attempt suicide. Maybe you call to the 911 # will prompt them to take action and shake some sense into him.

Call the police and give them your circumstances, then let them guide you on what to do.

take care,
L.

Actually, the first time he did something like this was before we were separated. We had been fighting (as usual). My DD and I went to the store. He called to ask when I was coming home, trying to pinpoint when I would arrive.
When I got there the house was quiet, door to our bedroom shut.
I opened the door to find him sitting in a chair with his feet propped on the side of the bed, white t-shirt on all covered in "blood" or so I thought. I walked near him and he said "gotcha". He had put a piece of plastic wrap over the t-shirt and squirted ketchup on his chest; had a pistol on the floor.

The first time he threatened suicide was a little over a year ago. I asked him for a D. He started calling everyone,i.e. kids, friends, etc. telling them he was sorry and how much he loved them and how much he had screwed his life up. He wrote out notes for me on what needed to be done w/company stuff. He wrote a suicide note and put it in a place where it would be found. Next door neighbor was at house w/my SD and she saw where it was.

My H put a shotgun in the truck and told everyone he was going for a ride at the lake - large thousands of acres lake/river in our area; took clothes w/him.

After he drove off the neighbor and SD found the note. Called me. Read it to me. Asked me what to do. I told them I would try to find him. They called the police. Everyone was trying to call him on the cell phone. I could never find him (he said I rode past him but did not see him once). the police were trying to call him on cell and he finally answered. Said he was okay. I went back to our house to find his first XW, both kids, next door neighbor and her kids, his best friend and the cops at the house. They did a report and took the note. He came home in the middle of the night.

He has threatened this and rode around w/guns in the truck or had gun or pistol in his bedroom several times now. The first two or three times he did this I panicked. Now, it's just another threat like exposing my past to all - which by the way I know for a fact that he did tell one person who is close to me about what I did as a teenager that he has a problem with.

Anyway, he tries to manipulate me and coerce me in this manner. Today, we had the usual conversation. Today he is supposed to be leaving to find another town/state to live in b/c he can't bear to see me w/someone else. He's left VMs and has text messaged that he will love and miss me forever and also said something alluding to suicide.

I am so calm it is scary. I have really been praying for God's peace in this and through this. I truly feel that right now and have for the last few days very strongly. I love him but what we had is gone. I believe that we each have done too much to repair. Too much damage has been done to go back.

I want to move forward and move on. Now, I have to wait until he comes back to get the D. He kept telling me to get the papers together b/c he was leaving but, I don't think it would have mattered. He wouldn't have signed them. Plus, I've wasted way too much attorney money already w/nothing to show for it.

How much of this has been reported other than that 1 episode? Like the boy who cries wolf, one day it w/b a reality, then what? I was told to treat each case as if it was the 1st one. Reporting it creates a history that can help with the diagnosis.

The repetative actions on his part shows he is more like a drama king and will not stop until he if forced to stop. It is a dangerous game he is playing and willng to include the children.

L.

Only the one time was actually reported.

I have VMs and written notes from the others. There have been at least 4-5 other times. The first was the most dramatic. I feel callous using the words I use but, he has played this game so many times. The first time all I could envision was him beside the lake, shot in the head or chest and slowly dying alone. I was hysterical. I was driving trying to find him and being afraid OF finding him. I was in contact w/the police by cell phone and they were telling me not to approach him if I found him b/c he might try to kill me and then himself.

He has a close friend who believes this is just a game to keep me hanging on by feeling sorry for him. He doesn't believe he will harm himself; loves himself too much. It scares me b/c I don't want him to act out of desperation. But, it is a cruel game he plays b/c I feel that it limits what I can do,i.e. move forward w/D. I know it would not be my fault if he did harm himself but, I would feel like I had his blood on my hands b/c I couldn't recommit to the marriage.

He has included his kids in all the drama. For the most part I have successfully kept my D out of it, safely away from it all. His kids have been involved with the OW and like her very much. They have both made amends w/the XW; I'm his third wife.

What a mess.