Hang in there, L2S. It's never been a mystery that he is a game player and an abusing manipulator. Quite predictable. He has his regular routine laid out.

Just try hard not to take his calls or to have any contact with him, if possible. Except when you have to agree on those papers. It would be better if someone else could do this for you, but if not, just try to keep as buisness like as possible. You don't owe him a thing.

God is guiding you, Honey! Look how far He has brought you so far! And these phone calls and abusive behavior from him are your "special reminders" of how your life will continue to be, should you stay. He won't ever change, and even if he did, it would only be temporary, until he had you RIGHT back where he wanted you, where you were before.

Stay strong, L2S! You can do this, Honey! Think of your daughter during your moments of weakness. You both deserve better and you can do this!

(((L2S)))

Jen

I'd get a women's shelter counselor to work with you. This man is so lost - and he's not yours to save. He really needs intervention - and you have to get out of the way. Sadly, the actions you are taking are really the only sane ones you can take. Anything less is dangerous to you, and ultimately to him. Divorcing him may be the most compassionate thing you can do. Because as long as he can focus on you, he doesn't have to deal with himself!

Beware. Be safe. Get help! His psychosis is pretty apparent so I'm not kidding when I tell you to get to a women's shelter and talk with one of their counselors. They will recognize it too. It gives me chills reading your account of it.

How ya' holding up, L2S?

Bump...

L2S, I hope all is well with you.

(((L2S)))

Jenn,
I'm fine. Thanks so much for caring and checking in on me.

Still same old song and dance. I could really kick myself for letting all drag on for so long. Now, here we are at the holidays again and I start feeling guilty for trying to finalize at such a time.

But, we've each made choices that have us where we are. I did not go to attorney this week w/final draft but I know that's the only choice left. He's not going to change. I'm not ever going to want to go back w/the way things are and I really think too much damage has been done to ever go back at this point. Sad but true. Plus, he needs counseling but makes it contingent on me doing whatever. That tells me that he would go to IC b/c I made it part of the deal not b/c he thinks he needs it and to me that would defeat the purpose.

So, keep hanging in there w/me and saying prayers. I will get there, maybe this coming week.

(((L2S))) The thoughts and prayers are still going out to you! Hang in there, Honey!

Have you ever read the book "The Gift of Fear"? I got the book on tape and am almost done listening to it. It's not just about physical safety. It's also about dealing with threats of revealing personal information. My husband had about 25 of the 30 PINs (pre-incident indicators) for abusive behavior. It might be interesting for you to read the book to give you some insights into your situation.
Respectful

I've heard of the book before. Need to get it.

I was lonely and my H is a charmer. I really thought he was the answer to my prayers for a Godly man to enter my life.

I ignored many signs that he was not the one. I allowed him to push me into sex and then into marriage long before I was ready for either. Had I taken the time to truly make wise choices, I don't believe I would have chosen the path to marriage w/him.

Now, I have a mess on my hands that will not end easily and without pain but, momentary pain is better than a lifetime of it.

KaylaAndy,
Regarding your advice above, I spoke to a women's shelter counselor today. I laid out to her everything that has happened, including the escalating physical abuse and the threats to expose my past and threats of suicide when I talk about D. Her response was that it is her experience that if I went back the physical abuse would escalate and that threats of suicide should never be taken lightly b/c a person who does not have emotional problems would never manipulate someone in such a manner. Of course she also said that every situation is different and that she can't say exactly what would happen in any given situation. She just said that the situation wasn't healthy.

She said that me and my D are both in danger b/c often a spouse who threatens such will kill the children and themselves in retaliation.

So, just more confirmation.

I have not talked to him since Saturday. He was supposed to call me Saturday evening but did not. He left two VMs on Sunday; the usual "go to church" stuff. I did not call him back and I did not hear from him all day today.

Just received a couple of calls from my H. He wants me to contact the attorney and start process for filing. He doesn't want to live the way I want him to live anymore - no sex.

He is saying that he knows I went to church on Sunday so I went back around OM (OM wasn't even there). He said he got mad when he found out so he went w/his son to the OW's house Sunday afternoon). Said he has phone bill w/him but has chosen not to show it to me b/c I continue to go to church and continue to lie about things.

Said he is not the person for me and that he will always love me and that no one will ever change that but that we aren't right for each other. Says he has no intent to change b/c I haven't given him any reason to change.

Says I can be free to be w/whomever I wish. He isn't interested in anyone. Says he has talked to the OW and told her there is no possibility of them resuming their R so I have nothing to worry about there. (Funny I remember her telling me when I caught them that they were just friends so I'm not sure what R he's talking about!!!)

Anyway, he's calm and matter of fact and is saying I can have my freedom. When I point out that I can say the same things he's saying about me he gets mad. Says he didn't call to argue; he's just pointing out reasons why we are where we are.

This type talk is usually the calm before the storm.

So, I believe I should move forward w/attorney. Anyone other than Techie disagree?

So, he asks me to contact attorney and start the process for D. Rehashed all the "if you had done this I would have done this" stuff. Told me he had not changed b/c I did not change.

After I picked my D up, he called. All day he has said "go file". This evening he asks me to get together with him for SF. Same man that told me he had himself tested for STDs (I don't believe him) b/c he didn't know who I had been messing with AND he still says he believes I'm seeing someone but, he wants to have sex.

He's quite incredible.

L2S- I've been following your thread. GET OUT!! If your best friend had this type of a relationship, that is what you would tell her! Blaming you for his problems! Grrr, it makes me mad just reading about it! It's all your fault, he has no control over his own actions. Whatever! Please go somewhere safe and file for D.

Techie, imho you should have your head examined for even suggesting she stay with this man. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> He sounds certifiable!!

Fortunately, I do not live w/him. We've been separated for almost 3 years. I was able to leave but not able to leave him alone. I kept holding out hope that I would wake up and realize that I was hopelessly in love w/him and that we would be able to work things out. I kept hoping that he would wake up and realize that I meant more to him than the other women he continually talks to; didn't happen.

Sadly, what I've come to realize is that this man is not the man I married. What I have come to believe is that I did not marry the man I thought I was marrying. I married a man who was on good behavior and only after we married did I start to see the "real" man.

I need to get over this for myself and my D. My H will be just fine. He has proven that he is capable of finding someone else and that he has the ability to be happy elsewhere.

I wouldn't call what he is doing happiness.

You worry about YOU and your daughter. YOU BOTH are what's important now.

I do not suggest she move back in with him as he is.
I suggest that she potentially move back in with him, when and if he sorts his crazyiness out.. AND offers him motivation to do so.

Right now, he has been giving no motivation to do so, and in fact, has been giving anti-motivation. He has explicitly been told, (restating it a little, to simplify),
"you can work on yourself all you want, but it doesnt matter how hard you try, there is no hope you'll get anything from your wife out of it"

Techie,
That's not exactly true. I talked to him about some basic changes such as NC w/OW and counseling. His response was that he didn't intend to change so that I could decide if I wanted our M to work or not. I could make the decision and then he would change.

It's a strange dance we do. Earlier this year I left church for 3 months, went to MC and IC and spent every bit of time I could w/him even to the detriment of my daughter,i.e. staying until 9pm or later at house every evening before we left to go to our home; she is 15 and had homework, school, needed bath, etc. I stopped all that when I discovered the true nature of his R w/OW and XW and others.

He has made no effort to change anything. I've lived in this mess too long. I don't think he wants to change. Even when I caught him w/OW I was willing to do all I outlined above. He won't even stop talking to them. Basically he has done nothing to give me hope that he's interested in giving up female Rs. I can't even mention a guy's name more than 2-3 times and he's accusing me of chasing them.

I had to go to a store today to pick up some things for work. I talked to him while there and got accused of meeting OM. I have never, ever done that. There's an old saying "Hit dogs holler". Maybe it fits here.

[/quote]Techie,
That's not exactly true. I talked to him about some basic changes such as NC w/OW and counseling. His response was that he didn't intend to change so that I could decide if I wanted our M to work or not. I could make the decision and then he would change.
[/quote]


Had to parse that a few times, but I think I got it now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It's ironic, when you consider that he is acting like a BS.
He claims he's waiting for you to "decide to work on your marriage", before giving things another try. That's exactly what a BS would/should do, before allowing a separated WS to move back in.


Lets be honest here. nobody wants to change themselves. lets take the average person starting a weight loss program. even the most "motivated" upbeat person maybe upbeat about the results.. but they are in no way going to be upbeat about making the changes required.

he does want the results. he does want a marriage with you again.


To go back to the original quote at the top of this message...

you've both been playing a "you commit first" game. But both of you are "gunshy", and neither of you is willing to say "i'll go first". and with good reason! ....

which is exactly why the strategy I proposed to you many posts ago, could work. By giving him a FULL list of requirements, instead of a partial "try these, and then we'll see", you can make a 'commitment', yet still have reasonable protection for yourself.
You can say, "IF and WHEN you fix all these issues, I will be willing to live with you again, and be 'husband and wife' again".

You cannot do that with a partial list; you can only be true to yourself and make a statement like that, if ALL the issues you find abhorrent, are fixed. and he is only willing to put in the effort, if he has a reasonable expectation that it will result in a marriage again.

Yes, he's a sucky husband, and has a whole lot of work to do on himself. But that's just it. The things you will require of him, are HUGE, HORRIBLE, HERCULEAN TASKS. Things that will require probably multiple YEARS of effort.

IF the average betrayed spouse cant keep up their "Plan A" motivations for much longer than 6 months, without any guarantee of results... how can you expect him to start a course of action that will take twice, to four times as long, and is similarly difficult, without any kind of reassurance that the effort will be worth while?

Yes, his behaviour towards you is somewhat psychotic.
However, it is driven by massive amounts of pain on his side, and no visible way out that he can see.

you probably dont think of him as being in pain. but he is. horribly. that's why he acts that way. that's why he threatens that way.

his suspicion of you and a "OM", is ironic.... yet it also shows that he belives what he himself is doing, is wrong.


You're expecting the wrong things from him.

"interested"? Of course he's not "interested". the question is whether he is "willing".

I thought that at some point in this thread, you mentioned that he stated he was willing to do so, except that he had a problem with lacking the sexual fulfilment side of things.

Divorce him, L2S. He's abusive.

Techie...

Is there any situation in which you feel divorce is appropriate?

Could you give an example if so?

I'm admittedly confused by your perspective and would like a little cluebat if you wouldn't mind.