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Um, because Pep told me to. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
No really, I guess because I just can't deal with the pain of seeing him and communicating with him on a regular basis. I plan to get the LSA signed, expose to her parents and his boss, and Plan B (a proper one, rather than the half measures I have been doing). I don't have any opportunity to Plan A him- he's living with her, and hasn't seen the kids since Sat 23rd. He has not mentioned seeing them anytime this week.
I need to have some time to focus on myself and let him see what it's like that he has chosen to have me out of his life. He hates that I won't 'chat' with him, and I hate that I want to...
Why do you ask? Do you think it's a bad idea? Pep suggested that I Plan B because he's an alcoholic, with no intention of being sober. I guess classic MB prinicples are kind of a lost cause in this situation.
I'm interested to hear what you have to say...
Edited to add, I changed my numbers because 1. they were out of area (we recently moved) and 2. his OW was doing hang up calls...I know this because only a few people had *both* my cell and home numbers, and it could only have been her.
BS me 32
WS him 31
Married 9 yrs
2 kids
D-day #1 04/20/05 (PA- 6 weeks)
D-day #2 09/07/06 (PA- ongoing)
WH moved in with OW (single, 25) 9/11/06
Exposed to OWF 10/29/06
(W)H moved home 10/30/06
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oh ok; I gotcha. I do agree you should go into Plan B, but not into a half [censored] Plan B, especially with an alcoholic. I would cut off ALL contact and not allow him back in your house at all. Emails and voicemails would be off limits too, since that is contact. But I would get this all set up and nice and tidy BEFORE you into Plan B. Designate an intermediary for any essential contact. [and I don't mean babble about "sally needs her pink shoes for gym"] When he drops the kids off, have him leave them at the porch and make it clear he can't come inside. Have you started work on your Plan B letter? If you post it, others can give you feedback and help you write it so it will get the maximum effect. Secondly, Steve Harley once told one of our members who was close to Plan B to go dark FIRST and THEN expose. He said that with the BS out of the picture entirely the infidels only had each other to lovebust over the exposure instead of the BS. Made alot of sense to me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Wow, I have a lot of work to do. I'm not sure how to get all my ducks in a row, so to speak. Here's what I need to do- Figure out how I'm going to get $ from him. Direct deposit would be best, but I'm considering having his paychecks garnished via the child support agency (name escapes me) Visitation is going to be an issue- he has no real set schedule, so it won't be regularly on a particular day (LSA says 'at my discretion'. I will have full legal and physical custody, if he signs it as is. We will need to communicate *somehow* or other to agree on this, weekly. He will also have to have the kids here, at my house, or take them to a restaurant etc. There will be no overnights, and God help him if I find them over at her place. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> So, he will have to be in the house for some amount of time each week. I plan to change the locks so he can't come in when I'm not here. I can have his parents act as intermediaries, but they're not here, they live 2hrs away. I was hoping it would be OK to have him leave a voicemail with his schedule and when he would see the kids, then I would email him and let him know when to visit. Secondly, Steve Harley once told one of our members who was close to Plan B to go dark FIRST and THEN expose. He said that with the BS out of the picture entirely the infidels only had each other to lovebust over the exposure instead of the BS. Made alot of sense to me! This makes perfect sense to me too. I won't need to deal with the fallout. Nice. I will work on my letter. I can't believe it has come to this...I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />
BS me 32
WS him 31
Married 9 yrs
2 kids
D-day #1 04/20/05 (PA- 6 weeks)
D-day #2 09/07/06 (PA- ongoing)
WH moved in with OW (single, 25) 9/11/06
Exposed to OWF 10/29/06
(W)H moved home 10/30/06
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Visitation is going to be an issue- he has no real set schedule, so it won't be regularly on a particular day (LSA says 'at my discretion'. I will have full legal and physical custody, if he signs it as is. We will need to communicate *somehow* or other to agree on this, weekly.
He will also have to have the kids here, at my house, or take them to a restaurant etc. There will be no overnights, and God help him if I find them over at her place.
So, he will have to be in the house for some amount of time each week. I plan to change the locks so he can't come in when I'm not here. I would suggest setting up a FIRM visitation schedule and expecting him to stick with it. Get this schedule set up NOW with him so you have him trained. Any time he has to make changes - and hopefully there will be VERY FEW OF THESE - have him contact your intermediary after you go into Plan B. He should not ever contact you via email or voice mail and I would make it clear that any emails will not be read by you but forwarded - UNREAD - to your intermediary. As far as visitation places, I would not let him in the house, but have him take the kids to a restaurant or a hotel. Plan B is to emulate DIVORCE in evry way in order for it to be effective. You don't want to accommodate him just because he has decided to shack up with the OW. Voicemails and emails are taboo on Plan B because that is contact. Anytime you hear his voice or engage in emails contact pulls you back into his crap and defeats the purpose. Look for CREATIVE WAYS to always avoid contact and you will find them. Will his parents remain ABSOLUTELY NEUTRAL as intermediaries? Will they stay out of it and only carry out your wishes to pass on only ESSENTIAL messages? Or can you envision them trying to persuade you to break Plan B in order to appease their son or because they don't like Plan B?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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OK, so I appropriated this from one of the 'Plan B' threads, and adjusted it to fit our situation. I doesn't really ring true for me though (maybe because I didn't write it?) I just think it has the 'carrot' part somewhat right, but is missing the 'stick', if you know what I mean? Any ideas? This is a really difficult letter for me to write. I only wish that it had not come to this point, but I feel I have no other option.
I would like to acknowledge and apologize for my part in the demise of our marriage. I neglected your needs, and failed to give you what you needed many times. I'm sure this helped create a void in our marriage that allowed your affairs to happen. I have said this before, and I want to say it again: I want to do whatever I can to put our marriage back together in a way that works for both of us. I feel that I have been learning to be the type of woman that I hope you would be proud to call your wife, as I have so often felt proud to call you my husband. I so want to be able to put the past behind us, and build a better life together for us and the children.
The past 18 months have been a difficult time for me, the most emotionally traumatic in my life. We seemed to start recovery last summer, only to slip and fail again. I am still feeling the hurt and pain when I don't know where you are, or who you're with. We have somehow misplaced our foundation of trust and respect. But lately I have found a strength that I never knew I possessed. [[color:"red"] I have grown and matured more as a person than I have in my entire lifetime. Not sure about including this, it has only been 3 weeks since he left.[/color] ] Whereas in the past I endured the hurt and pain, I now see that it will soon destroy my love for you. Until you can truthfully and honestly return home and work with me on rebuilding our marriage, I will have no contact with you, except regarding the children, and I will avoid seeing you. This is not to punish you, it is to protect my feelings for you and our chances at reconciliation. If we continue as we are now, there will be nothing left.
I ask that you please respect my decision to separate in this way. Please feel free to call the kids at any time. If you need to contact me to set up visits, please do so through email or leave me a voicemail.
I want us to be a team, and restore our marriage together. I want you to know that no matter how bad the past was, no matter how ugly, we can get past it. With help, our true healing can begin. Look inside yourself and find the strength we will need to do this.
I want to grow old with you. I loved you more than life itself while we were together, and I continue to do so as I write this. When you find yourself ready and willing to truly and fully commit to our family, willing to work on a plan for our recovery, and go to counseling, I will be ready and willing to discuss our future.
BS me 32
WS him 31
Married 9 yrs
2 kids
D-day #1 04/20/05 (PA- 6 weeks)
D-day #2 09/07/06 (PA- ongoing)
WH moved in with OW (single, 25) 9/11/06
Exposed to OWF 10/29/06
(W)H moved home 10/30/06
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I would take out ALL the parts that allow contact, that is NOT Plan B. You also have to include CONDITIONS for resumed talks about reconcilation, such as:
1. end all contact with the OW
2. stop drinking
Also put in something about your intermediary, the children's visitation schedule, not allowing him inside the house, etc.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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OK, Now I get it. Plan B= pseudo divorce.
I will try to get him nailed down to a schedule, but it really is going to be hard to do so. He works days, nights and weekends, usually 11-10, Mon-Sat. October is very busy, and he will have few Sundays off either (ie. no days off). I'm hoping that he will visit the kids one weeknight a week.
As far as his parents go, I don't think that they would remain neutral. I doubt they would try to make me break plan B, but I don't think that they would embrace it either- I think they will perceive it as being 'bad for the kids'. I also think that they may pass on more than just the essential information. I will have to think about this one- we just moved here, so it will be difficult to impose upon new friends to act as an intermediary. I might just have to go with his parents and hope for the best.
Ugh, I thought I wanted to do this, but it's just gonna get ugly. I guess now I can stop pretending huh? It was ugly already.
BS me 32
WS him 31
Married 9 yrs
2 kids
D-day #1 04/20/05 (PA- 6 weeks)
D-day #2 09/07/06 (PA- ongoing)
WH moved in with OW (single, 25) 9/11/06
Exposed to OWF 10/29/06
(W)H moved home 10/30/06
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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b3d, carefully work out all the details. For example, you might could set up an online calendar with visitation that could be passed back and forth a week in advance through your intermediaries. Try starting the calendar idea right now while you are still in contact so it will be easier to make the adjustment when you go into Plan B.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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p.s. your intermediary can be someone long distance as long as they are on email and can also be reached via phone during the day. Do you have any friends who might be appropriate?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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OK, so I was talking to WS tonight. I can't do plan B. I just can't. I'm not ready. I'm too weak. He's ready to walk away anyway, and I haven't had a chance to plan A. I know I am probably killing any chance of making this work, but I have to go with my heart. I will probably have changed my mind again tomorrow. I mean no disrespect to any MBers who have helped me so far by posting with advice. I'm still thinking about exposure, but yep, I'm still scared of the fallout. Pretty pathetic huh?
I told him where I'm going to be working, and he told me where his OW works. He doesn't know that I know who she is. Ironically, an employee from my new job is leaving to work at the same company as her. I was telling her about my sitch today, so she knows who my WS is, and I'm sure it won't take long for them to figure it all out. He has said that he won't tell her where I'm working, but I guess it's only a matter of time.
On a better note, WS and I are communicating about things that have happened between us in a *real* way (OK, I know he's WS, but still) for maybe the first time ever.
So any suggestions for me? (other than kicking me off the boards for not following directions!)
He's signing the papers, as is, tomorrow.
(ready for the 2x4)
BS me 32
WS him 31
Married 9 yrs
2 kids
D-day #1 04/20/05 (PA- 6 weeks)
D-day #2 09/07/06 (PA- ongoing)
WH moved in with OW (single, 25) 9/11/06
Exposed to OWF 10/29/06
(W)H moved home 10/30/06
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OK, So the papers are signed. I have seen him a couple of times, and every time I do, I get my hopes up. He's still calling me 'honey' and 'sweetheart', gives me big warm hugs without me initiating, and yesterday kissed me goodbye. I am being torn apart by this. I saw a glimpse of my H, and then he was gone again.
I started my new job today, and it went really well. One of the big LB's in our relationship was my refusal to see how important it was to him that I work. I *need* to work now, and I'm happy about my job. He called to check in a couple of times, to wish me luck, and to see how my day went.
I asked him, 'if he could have divorced me now, would he have', and he said he didn't know.
I really want to talk to the OW, tell her the truth about how things were between us when they met (ie. tell her he wasn't separated and living here until he found a place, I didn't throw him out, I love him and want a chance to make it work, there are children involved, tell her she's a soulless ******, etc, etc) Thoughts?
I have what I believe to be her parents number. I am so afraid (yes operating from a position of fear, I know) that when he says that it's not about her, that he has wanted to leave for a long time, that it will just drive him further away. That even if their relationship falls apart because of exposure, he will just be on his own, instead of considering reconciliation.
Thanks for reading.
BS me 32
WS him 31
Married 9 yrs
2 kids
D-day #1 04/20/05 (PA- 6 weeks)
D-day #2 09/07/06 (PA- ongoing)
WH moved in with OW (single, 25) 9/11/06
Exposed to OWF 10/29/06
(W)H moved home 10/30/06
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OK. I'm not getting any replies to my posts, so I have either overstayed my welcome, or I'm a lost cause. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I just sent WH my plan B letter: I’ve had some really tough days since you decided to leave us, as you know. My love for you is so deep that I just don't want to face the possibility of my life without you in it. I expected to marry only once, and for life, and despite all our difficulties, I remain committed to that goal. I thought that we would get through the tough times, together. I've been doing some thinking, and I now realize that I have been trying to hold on to you against your will. Obviously, that isn't possible, given the relationship you're now in.
When I think about when we met and our first years together, I know that you married me of your own free choice. I didn't blackmail you or twist your arm. You made your decision without any pressure from me. Now you say you want out of the marriage, and I see now, I have no choice but to let you go. I know now that I can't force you to stay now any more than I could have made you marry me in 1997 if it wasn't what you wanted. You are free to go.
As you know I am still willing to do whatever it takes to correct the mistakes that we have made in the past and make our marriage together stronger and closer than we ever thought possible. With all my heart, I would like to build a new marriage with you. One in which we both feel loved, safe, cherished and honored. I just can't continue my efforts to rebuild our marriage while you are still involved with her. It's too painful. We can only rebuild our marriage,together, when you completely end your affair.
Until that point, I feel I must break off all contact with you. I will avoid seeing you or talking to you or communicating with you in any way. If you never contact me again, aside from matters to do with the kids, then I will accept your decision. I do not wish for your bond with the kids to suffer, and I will be as flexible as possible with visitation of the kids, but I ask that you not have contact with me during pick up and drop off times. If you have any emergency matters, please contact me via your Mom.
I hope that you understand that I am not doing this to hurt you or punish you but to protect my feelings for you. I don't want to end up filled with hate and resentment for you. I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you in this way. You must know the enormous pain and suffering I have endured because of your relationship with her. I simply cannot be in contact with you any longer, knowing that you and she are together. This separation is only to preserve my love for you and to avoid losing any more of the things we have shared together, and to give our marriage the best chance for recovery. This entire experience has been incredibly painful, but I’m going to make it.
We had some wonderful times together. You were my first real love and I’ll never forget the memories that we shared. Thank you so much for the gift of these two beautiful children. I will always have a part of you with me.
Should you decide that you want to reconcile, I remain open to that possibility, and I hope somewhere in your heart you will too. Other families get through this, and I know we can also. I don't ever expect to 'fix' our marriage, all I ask is a chance at a new relationship with you. My only requirement for you to return is to end all contact with the person you are seeing now, and be willing to commit to me and the kids. I realize now that sobriety must be your choice, and I have no right to ask that of you, now, or in the future.
I love you,
x I'm considering exposing to her parents/leaving her a message similiar to this: Stop your affair with my husband. I love him, and I want nothing more than to save my marriage. I can't do this with you in the picture. If you're not the soulless ****** that I suspect you are, you will stop all contact with my husband today. You are free to find any man in the world, why do you choose to destroy my marriage? This relationship is tearing apart my childrens' family, and you have the power to stop it. I don't know what WH has told you. I don't know if you are even aware of the truth. We were not separated when you met. I did not throw him out.I don't to discuss this with you, I just want you out of our life.
I love this man, and I am going to fight to save my marriage, and my family. I am not going to give up, and I will stop at nothing to do this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Anybody? I know the boards are slow on the weekend, but could someone just tell me if I'm being a total idiot here? Should I make a poll? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
BS me 32
WS him 31
Married 9 yrs
2 kids
D-day #1 04/20/05 (PA- 6 weeks)
D-day #2 09/07/06 (PA- ongoing)
WH moved in with OW (single, 25) 9/11/06
Exposed to OWF 10/29/06
(W)H moved home 10/30/06
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I respect your decision and I know that you are hurt by what I have done
now and in the past. I truly want to be friends when the timing is
right and want to have as strong a relationship with the kids as
possible. I know you think that I made this decision just because I met
somebody else, but that is really not the case.
BS me 32
WS him 31
Married 9 yrs
2 kids
D-day #1 04/20/05 (PA- 6 weeks)
D-day #2 09/07/06 (PA- ongoing)
WH moved in with OW (single, 25) 9/11/06
Exposed to OWF 10/29/06
(W)H moved home 10/30/06
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b3b, Whoa!! slow your roll a bit. You have gone from thoughts of Plan B, to thoughts of no Plan B to Plan B in no time. Settle into a decision. Contacting OW will do nothing for your cause; exposing to her family and work will. This note that you want to send (hopefully you haven't yet) will just make WH come to her side and rescue. Stop your affair with my husband. I love him, and I want nothing more than to save my marriage. I can't do this with you in the picture. If you're not the soulless ****** that I suspect you are, you will stop all contact with my husband today. You are free to find any man in the world, why do you choose to destroy my marriage? This relationship is tearing apart my childrens' family, and you have the power to stop it. I don't know what WH has told you. I don't know if you are even aware of the truth. We were not separated when you met. I did not throw him out.I don't to discuss this with you, I just want you out of our life.
I love this man, and I am going to fight to save my marriage, and my family. I am not going to give up, and I will stop at nothing to do this. Slow yourself down; wait on responses to your questions. Did you figure out who your intermediary is going to be? Make sure that it is someone who is a bit more detached than HIS family. I chose my best friend. She knows the situation, but is able to handle the contact with WH. As someone said before, the intermediary can be someone who doesn't even live in the vicinity, as long as there is email and a reliable phone number. Look, slow down. Stop REACTING. Patience is tough, but necessary now.
Me-BS-38
Married 1997; son, 8yo
Divorced April 2009
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Thanks SilentLucidity for your thoughts. It helps a lot just to know that someone is 'listening'.
I have sent the Plan B letter, and I have decided against speaking to OW. You're right, it will just make him defend her, and I'll end up looking crazy...
I'm planning to call her parents, but I'm really not sure what to say. I don't want to sound vindictive, because at this point it doesn't seem like there is much hope. I am sure that the exposure will just be the 'nail in the coffin' for our relationship, rather than the way to end the affair. I want to seem reasonable and calm, but I'm not sure I can.
I also feel like I am losing the desire to even *want* to reconcile. He is just being so nasty to me, (a big change from a few days ago when he thought we could be 'friends') He called after I sent the Plan B letter to see if I still wanted him to see the kids as we had arranged, and I asked him why he couldn't see them on Sunday. He went nuts, bringing up all kinds of things from the past, and ended up by saying 'F*** You' and hanging up on me. He has such a warped view of how our relationship has been that I don't think he will ever see things clearly enough to make this work.
He has only seen the kids for 2 hours in the past three weeks, and could have spent 6 hours with them on Sunday, and also has Tuesday off, but he has 'made plans'. I can handle him hurting me, but not the kids. They don't deserve this..
BS me 32
WS him 31
Married 9 yrs
2 kids
D-day #1 04/20/05 (PA- 6 weeks)
D-day #2 09/07/06 (PA- ongoing)
WH moved in with OW (single, 25) 9/11/06
Exposed to OWF 10/29/06
(W)H moved home 10/30/06
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I'm planning to call her parents, but I'm really not sure what to say. I don't want to sound vindictive, because at this point it doesn't seem like there is much hope. I am sure that the exposure will just be the 'nail in the coffin' for our relationship, rather than the way to end the affair. I want to seem reasonable and calm, but I'm not sure I can. b3d, you should expose the affair if you WANT TO SAVE your marriage. If you are done and moving onto a divorce, then you should NOT expose, because it won't make any difference. The purpose of exposure is to inflict a deadly wound on the AFFAIR. It doesn't harm your marriage, it HELPS your marriage. Your H will be furious, but he will get over it.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thanks MelodyLane, I thought you had written me off...I'm just a slow learner. Keep your 2x4 handy!
I do want to save my marriage. I'm just not sure it's possible, even if I expose. Won't it just make him want to protect her from that too? I'm in a weird position b/c I have full legal and physical custody of the kids, with visitation at my discretion.
After a 'discussion' about him spending more time with the kids, and him apologizing for being so mean, he has agreed to help me out by seeing the kids while I'm working.
I have just started a new job, and I really *need* him to watch the kids a couple of times a week. I know this sounds a bit stupid, but I'm worried about how I'm going to make things work if he decides not to see the kids/ help me out when I'm working. My schedule is really wacky and unpredictable, with early morning starts that most babysitters, including my regular one, aren't interested in. I guess in the big picture, a babysitter is a small price to pay for saving my marriage, right?
My plan now, is to call the parents this Sunday. Ideas for how to tell them (quickly!) without sounding like a nut?
BS me 32
WS him 31
Married 9 yrs
2 kids
D-day #1 04/20/05 (PA- 6 weeks)
D-day #2 09/07/06 (PA- ongoing)
WH moved in with OW (single, 25) 9/11/06
Exposed to OWF 10/29/06
(W)H moved home 10/30/06
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Posts: 5,871 |
b3b,
I read that you sent Plan B letter already? So I guess H has already broken no contact between the two of you? In Plan B, there is NOOOOOOO contact. He must speak through intermediary, unless a major problem or emergency occurs. You are no longer 'there' for him, to yell at or otherwise. If he breaks contact, resend Plan B letter. He can talk to you when he decides to follow the stipulations laid out in your letter.
Can you find an alternative to WH helping with babysitting? You will not be able to effectively separate yourself from WH and OW if he is going to 'see' you and talk to you regularly; this is not Plan B. Start to think about what your life would be like without WH, too; just as a Plan B would make that apparent to him, make it apparent to yourself; find the support you need.
Try not to give yourself such rigid deadlines for accomplishing exposure; just be sure it is clear and precise and truthful. Don't go in half-cocked; be factual and dry. Be prepared, not just ready. Wait for people here to respond, bump as much as you need to. No one is going to write you off, just slow down a bit.
Me-BS-38
Married 1997; son, 8yo
Divorced April 2009
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 75
Member
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Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 75 |
Thanks silentlucidity,
I appreciate your concern. I do need to slow down. I feel like I have been going 100 miles an hour since this happened.
Yes, he broke plan B (we both did) over a misunderstanding. He thought I meant that he would only see the kids on the original plan that we had discussed before I found my job. I needed to clarify the details with him, which ended up being an argument. Ooops. The bonus is, I am more determined than ever to do a good Plan B/exposure.
The benefit of me having him help with babysitting, is that it works for both of our schedules (and my finances, which are looking pretty sad if I have to pay for 10 more hours of babysitting), and he is *spending time with his kids*, which won't be possible if I have a sitter at those times. I won't see him when he arrives/leaves- he will pick up/ drop off to the sitter. I don't have a viable alternative right now- no family here, but I'm looking for one (different sitter).
BS me 32
WS him 31
Married 9 yrs
2 kids
D-day #1 04/20/05 (PA- 6 weeks)
D-day #2 09/07/06 (PA- ongoing)
WH moved in with OW (single, 25) 9/11/06
Exposed to OWF 10/29/06
(W)H moved home 10/30/06
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