I think one of the great unspoken fears we have as betrayed spouses is that we are afraid we will never find any relationship as good as the one we had with our spouse prior to the affair.

Many of us had good marriages. Others had what Pittman calls "salvageable" marriages, where there were a few problems that could have been solved by better communication or counseling.

But once the affair devastated our marriages we had to ask ourselves some hard questions. Will we ever find someone as good as our spouse was before the infidelity? Given the statistics on unsuccessful second and third marriages and marriages of blended families, is the deck stacked against us?

Were we driven by our subconscious into choosing someone who was destined by their character flaws, personality disorders, or corrupt values to be unfaithful, and will it happen again?

There are many other haunting questions that plague us.

How can the wayward spouse throw away all the wonderful memories of their courtship and marriage as though they meant nothing?

I tell you what, Hiker; you are killin me with these thought provoking questions! I love them, and hate them, because they are mine, now, in this moment in my existence. I did have a good partnership prior to the A; then I lay eyes on a person that would devastate me, our family, and walk away without a second thought. A selfish person indeed!

I think we are driven by our subconscious to choose what we are used to or what we expect, or know. I chose someone warm, witty, and affectionate, but distant, sometimes aloof, and selfish. I have always expected that people leave, either physically or emotionally (family, friends, lovers, etc.), as that is what I have been shown. But, I have to say, I was wholly surprised when WH dropped the A-bomb on me. I was so naive, I never thought that he would stray, even though I surround myself with those who are needy, but fall short with the return of help or affections.

I will never find someone exactly like my spouse, and I believe that I want to save my marriage for reasons beyond my subconscious; he really was(is?) a good counterpart. I do believe that we find what we need when we need it. I don't fear being alone, even loneliness, as I am one to go out and find friends and things to help keep my happy. I miss the man, the partner, the lover, the one who made me smile and told me I was beautiful at my lowest.

I agree with this. I am not afraid of being alone. I do feel a sort of emptiness at the loss of my wife's love, which I counted on and expected to last a lifetime. I wonder whether I am by nature overly sentimental, because it is impossible for me to understand how anybody can devalue their marriage and discard all the wonderful memories they made together and take up with someone new through lies and deception. I could not, in my wildest imagination, picture myself leaving my wife for another woman.

I also now question my judgment of character. I felt confident that my wife shared my values and that is actually one of the key reasons I married her. Obviously I made a mistake, and that makes me wonder whether I could make the same mistake again.

I, too, counted on my husband. I am learning to surround myself with the happiness that I want. That includes my husband.

I don't feel as if my judgment should be brought to question. I believe HIS judgment is at question. Don't do that to yourself. I know that I chose this person to be in my life, and at the time, I trusted that. He is not to be trusted, not my judgment. The choice was not a mistake; her actions were!

Well, it's kind of like looking at the statistics and seeing the obvious conflicts.

Several polls taken randomly in the U.S. indicate that between 80 and 88 percent of Americans believe infidelity is wrong. When you see that as many as six out of ten marriages suffer from infidelity, the conclusion can be drawn that most people are against cheating on their spouses, but only a minority of them stand by their convictions.

I guess that you could say that many people may share your values on the surface, but a much smaller percentage of these folks actually live by the values they profess to hold.

I think it has less to do with fear and more to do with efficiency. IMHO, people consciously or subconciously act in their own self interests, seek out what they need to survive and be happy, and seek to do it in the most efficient manner.

In the case of the prospect of losing a S, I think people are not so much afraid that they will never find another to be their equal or better, they do not want to pay the cost for the search (dating, trusting, wooing, breaking up, etc.) Its a whole new investment. Most, logically conclude that it will cost less to repair the R you have/had, then it will to start over from scratch.

In many cases, I see the reverse dynamic from BS. Since they already have a new R via the A, they see it as more costly to repair the M. The new R or A is in their minds "free", while fixing the M costs something.

Related to that, is the disconnect BS and WS have in valuing the return on the investment. The WS thinks the new R is going to pay huge dividends, while the BS thinks repairing the M will pay huge dividends.

So to me, its not fear, its a value equation.

BS says, definately some costs to stay married, but less than starting over, paying a return of happy marriage equals most effiecient path to my happiness.

WS says, no costs to continuing the A, and definately less than fixing the M, paying a return of a happy R equals most effiecient path to my happiness

"I guess that you could say that many people may share your values on the surface, but a much smaller percentage of these folks actually live by the values they profess to hold."

Oh, definitely, I am in total agreeance with this. I've heard so many people SAY something, and then go on to go against the exact thing that they stated to be their truth. I don't really understand how one can allow their moral fiber to fray and pull apart, even when they KNOW what they are doing goes against their belief system. Not to say that I have never felt like "Is this it?"; I have, but I know that that is the time to talk to your spouse and begin to work out why you probably BOTH feel that way. Find the love again.

I don't know if it's a question of laziness (I've been fed the line that it may just be easier to move on), or a question of lying to others and to yourself. It's a toughie! I mean, who really wants to say that they believe in infidelity to their mate or friends and family! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

The polls are a great example of situational ethics. For most, if not all, give them the opportunity and the ability to rationalize the behavior and their value systems become malleable.

Hi Hiker- the statistics you quoted made me think of something I heard on NPR- I wish I could remember the name of the book...

This man did studies about person's beliefs vs. actions. For instance, he posed the "trolley" questions...

1. If there was a runaway trolley, careening towards a crowd of 30 people, and you could throw a switch and divert the trolley so that it would only kill 1 person, would you throw the switch?

2. If there was a runaway trolley, careening towards a crowd of 30 people, and you could push one large man onto the tracks (large enough to stop the trolley before it hit the crowd of 30 peole)- would you push him onto the tracks?

Most people said they'd throw the switch to divert the trolley to kill one man, but would not push someone onto the tracks to do the same thing.

Then this man who was being interviewed said he asked his own dad- if there was a man who was very ill, with little chance of recovery, would you "pull the plug" to donate his organs to 5 other people? His dad said yes. Then he asked if he'd kill a perfectly healthy person who walked into the hospital to visit a friend so he could take that man's organs and save 5 other people. Of course he said no....

Just an interesting discussion about how people's beliefs don't translate to their actions.......

Oh, and you know what Mark Twain said about statistics, don't you? There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My wife has many wonderful qualities, and I have always harbored a feeling that I was very lucky to find her. And yet what is going on now looks for all the world like insanity to me.

When it comes to infidelity I understand the process. I understand the steps it took to get there. What I don't understand is the root causes, the emotional aspect of it. How does somebody take up with a stranger and become obsessed with him/her? Sure, it's a fantasy relationship. But, by God, how can people toss all the years of a good marriage away on the strength of it? How can they subject their children to the pain of divorce? Is this all about brain chemistry?

I look at this forum and see the tragic consequences of someone's thoughtless actions day after day. The actions of the cheaters are almost predictable down to the words spoken. You could actually show the waywards the tragic path they are headed on, yet they continue blindly, inexorably, beyond all reason, like lemmings leaping into the sea to the death.

rprynne,

That is an interesting way of looking at it, and I can definitely see it part of the decision-making process on behalf of both the BS and WS. I do, however, believe the emotional aspect of the decision has a greater part in the decision-making process.

If we were happy in our marriage prior to the affair, I think we have a tendency to believe that fixing what went wrong has a better chance of restoring a loving relationship than beating the streets looking for a new love. Remember, there is also a serious blow to the self-esteem of the BS which may make them doubt their ability to attract a new lover. That's another factor which probably makes restoring the marriage a more attractive proposition.

I do think the WS sees the affair as being the easier path, but after all, that is part of the "fog," is it not? Divorce, the separation of finances, the issue of custody, are all complications that are devalued by the WS in favor of their infatuation.

Somewhere on this forum it was posted that Dr. Harley wrote that people find it much easier to modify their values than their behavior.

It's a kind of morality of convenience or expediency.

I think that it is interesting how most affair patterns and words spoken during the abysmal process are almost 'by the book'. I think many people who choose to emotionally/physically leave their spouse do so because they truly believe that they are DIFFERENT; therefore...

--my affair is for love, not some amoral choice.
--My affair is not an affair, I am falling in love, maybe for the first time ever, and I really don't love my spouse, so it's okay
--A loveless marriage was something I always said I wouldn't live in (to my spouse), therefore, I'm aloud to leave.

We bend what we believe to what we are doing, so that we can believe that we aren't making the wrong choice, or going against our morals/beliefs.

Try to remember some of the things that you believed and were immovable on at a younger age. How do you feel about some of those things now? I know that my belief system changes as I age and have experience. I remember saying that I didn't believe that people should stay in a loveless marriage. Of course I still believe this to be true now, but I also believe that where love once resided it can be brought back, whereas before, in my naivite, I thought loved died and that was it.

Some people choose not to grow up <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I think most people probably believe this. I think our culture holds the pursuit of passion as the measuring stick for loving relationships; if the passion wanes it's time to move on to something or someone new.

Of course this kind of thinking renders the idea of commitment and fidelity obsolete. The marital vows are nice things to say in the ceremony, but no one is going to hold you accountable for them. Promising to remain faithful becomes a conditional statement. "I will stand by you in sickness and in health, 'til death do us part, unless I discover that I'm really in love with someone else."

We are emotional beings and therefore driven to a large degree by feelings. We must, however, recognize that we need not respond to all our emotional impulses by giving in. We don't tell a rapist or murderer his actions were okay because he was following his passion.

When following our emotional impulses seems potentially harmful to either ourselves or our loved ones, we need to take a step back and re-evaluate our actions.

I agree this is part of the rationalization. What astounds me is that intelligent people in affairs succumb to this nonsense despite being confronted with evidence that their actions are just like everyone else who falls prey to an affair.

I agree

This is why they make the leap to say "I'm different". If you present a WS with clear evidence of the same actions having been perpetrated by another WS, or many other, they will tell you that they are different, that they aren't looking for the fantasy, this is not fantasy, it's true and real and that is why they are different. What a crock! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

To be honest, it doesn't astound me.

Maybe when I have some more time, I'll write why.

Maybe intelligent people do a better job of creating more sophisticated rationalizations than the average folks. They know how to make excuses that sound plausible until you really analyze them.

So what causes someone to emerge from the "fog"? I read somewhere that people rarely break an addiction until confronted with some type of emotional event that shocks them into seeing themselves from an outside perspective.
(That, of course, is what exposure is all about; seeing yourself through someone else's eyes.) Example: An alcoholic wakes up from an all night drunk in jail only to find he has been in a car accident that left a person dead. He vows never to drink again.

But not every wayward responds to exposure by ceasing the affair; maybe even most do not.

The key question in saving marriages ripped apart by affairs is this: What separates those wayward spouses who eventually realize their mistake and return to their marital partners from those who do not?

Are they morally stronger? Has the fantasy faded for them and not the others? Does it have to do with a breakdown in some affair relationships that doesn't occur in others? Was the love they had for their spouse stronger than that of another wayward's love for his/her spouse?

I think that for some WS as was mentioned before it is much easier for them to either continue in the A or even after NC decide to dissolve the M because of the amount of damage and work looking them in the face.

Having to face the reality of their poor choices day in and day out while working their [censored] off to try and recover the M is not worth it for some WS. If they wandered to have EN's of admiration met,it may be hard to cut off the flow of admiration from OP and perhaps not have that need met for a long time b/c of trying to work to regain trust etc with BS. The BS may not be able to meet that EN during the initial phases of R due to bitterness, resentment, hurt etc.

The WS may look at the risk/benefit ratio and return on investment. I think many WS also realize (whether they verbalize it or not) that there is a very real possibility that even after they work toward R the BS may at anytime decide not to forgive or to end the M. Those with less invested in the M to begin with are IMO more apt to bail.
I also think the WS personality plays a key role on whether to R or not. JMHO

Yes, that seems reasonable. There is also the prospect of having the affair thrown in your face every time a serious argument erupts with your spouse.