Hi all. Just to let you know I'm new to this, and I'm going through a period that has left me an emotional wreck. I look forward to any and all advice but I'm not sure how much criticism I'm capable of handling right now because I'm so afraid of losing the woman of my dreams. So please go easy on me. This will be a little long winded but I want to be sure you have most of the backround so that you can give me sound advice.

I have been seperated from my wife of almost 20 years for the last 5 years. I was very unhappy. I had been to 3 different doctors in the year I left due to stomach and intestinal problems, and although she and I had good jobs we were in debt up to our ears. We have 2 children together. They are my pride and joy.

The day I decided to leave, she and I were in the middle of a daily argument. I had always thought I was doing a good job sheltering the kids from our problems, but she has always been the type who feels if she is going to suffer then the whole world is going to suffer as well. My daughter (12 yrs old at the time) came out her room crying and screamed: "Can't you guys just STOP!" I made the decision to leave then but waited several months because a few days later my wife learned her mother was dying and I felt I needed to help support her in some way.

Shortly after leaving I began dating a young lady I had met on the job. That relationship has continued to this day, five years later in spite of the fact that I have not divorced my wife. My reason for not divorcing? Fear of giving my wife any more reason to make me look like a loser to my children, fear of losing their respect and fear of not having them in my life as a result of it all.

Although the GF never pushed the issue I knew that her greatest desire was for me to commit to her 24/7, but I still never put 2 and 2 together as over time she began to withdraw. Her withdrawing caused me to feel unloved, even though she unceasingly told me she loved me and always had her best smile on. I began to withdraw as well. I was blaming her for our issues, mainly concerning the lack of intimacy between us. Several weeks ago we had our first real argument. From his bedroom her 14 year old son heard most of it and the following day told his mom that if she were to have me over the house again he would leave. He was tired of seeing her sad and crying! I told her then that we needed to take a timeout because I did not want her to feel she had to choose between her son and I. That's when she began counseling. She has always been a pretty private person. She has always considered her past as her business and she really isn't very good with sharing things that cause her pain or upsets her. In other words she doesn't know how to accept the fact that people want and need to support her out of their love for her. Not just me. Her parents as well.

In any case, during this timeout her counselor recommended she refrain from seeing me, remove from her finger the promise ring I had given her, and in general stop communicating with me. But the GF couldn't truly agree with that recommendation. She strongly felt that under the circumstances, we still needed to be connected. In her very emotional state she was deathly afraid that she would lose me. Because I was getting these little bits of info from the GF herself about her sessions (I was not involved in the counselling) I decided that maybe it was best if I forced the distance issue on her. I began to not answer the phone or reply to text messages etc., even though I listened to all the voicemails, read every text, and every email. She sounded so distraught. Whenever I felt she absolutely needed me I would call her back. During this time she became ill. What I thought was just a cold ended up being pneumonia I later learned. She dealt with that all alone.

The final part to this horror story occurred last week. The GF had started leaving me notes on my car, a white rose, just small tokens of her love for me to let me know that I was constantly on her mind. I was beginning to come to the conclusion (finally!) that my non-committal over this five year span was actually the cause of the problems between her and I. And I was so tired of living a double life, and trying to please everyone at my own expense. As I saw it no one was getting pleased, no one was truly happy. Especially me. I decided to take an alone opportunity with my daughter (now 18) and ease her into the fact that I was going to file for a divorce. There was no yelling. As a matter a fact she listened and said not a word. I explained that the GF was important to me without getting into a mushy conversation. When it was all done I walked into a store with her, I left her for about 15 minutes and when I returned she was gone. For the next hour I frantically searched for her. She would not answer her cell phone and so in desperation I called the GF so I could try and locate her via computer. Unfortunately the GF was not near her computer, she was out with her own 2 children. And in my state of mind, I just hung up on her. When the GF was finally able to get back to me she wanted to know what was wrong and I just blew up! I basically told her that I had been trying to ease my daughter into accepting things between her and I so we could move forward and that I had done so because I had felt pressured to do so, knowing what the likely outcome would be and even though we (GF and I) were essentially not even together at the moment. In other words I was basically blaming her for the outcome of a decision I alone had made.

That decision sent my GF over the edge. She took it very personally and again blamed herself to a degree for what had happened. She ended up borrowing some money from her mom that weekend and went away with her children. It was the first time she had done anything like that in all our years together without letting me know what she was doing. She stopped calling and texting. When I did talk with her a couple of days later it was clear that she was an emotional wreck. I had already apologized to her the day that the incident with my daughter occurred. And I apologized again. But she was literally a mess. She said she was unable to think clearly, or do much for herself. She was afraid she was nearing a nervous breakdown and I became so afraid.

The communication from her basically slowed to a trickle. And when we did communicate she sounded distant and unemotional. Over the weekend I informed my wife that I was going to file for a divorce. I have been in a living ****** since but I'm determined. At the same time I became determined to show the GF how much she meant to me and was planning on telling her of my plans to file. A few days ago the GF informed me that she had a counselling appt. I had hoped to catch her prior to that appt. and give her a bouquet of flowers and a music CD I had made containing songs that expressed how much I loved and needed her. But because I left the house too late I decided to go for a ride by the beaches. That is where I found her speaking with a guy. (from 2 different cars mind you)

I was absolutely devastated because the worst was going through my mind. I drove into the lot and parked alongside her car and she got out to come over and talk to me. The only words I could get out were "how could you?" The guy took off. But I recognized the truck as the one she had been driving a week earlier because her car was being repaired. (As I later came to learn the GF, who is out of work atm has been babysitting his 11 year old step son when his is out fishing for 12 days at a time). I was walking to my car and she drove up alongside me and handed my a large envelope containing a CD, a little booklet, and a love letter that she had intended to leave quietly on my doorstep.

There was no argument between us. She agreed to come to my house because she wanted to explain. When she arrived she swore on her childrens souls that there was nothing going on with the gentleman and that she still loved me. Because she put it that way I believed her. We spent an hour together. That was the longest time we had been together in 8 or 10 weeks. We kissed once, maybe or twice but then she had to leave for her counseling appt. which she explained she had to reschedule for a later time in the day because her father needed help with something. Prior to her leaving I told her I would have liked to get together with her on the weekend. She said that she was going to have the kids, and I said that was fine. We'd go out to eat and then see a movie together. She smiled and seemed happy with the prospect. But after her meeting she sent a text message which made her seem very upset. She basically said that her meeting had not gone well and little more. When we talked later on I asked if she could tell me what about her meeting had upset her. She said her counselor had gotten angry with her because of the incident at the beach. And told her that she should have told me that I needed to mind my own business. Additionally the counselor was angry because the GF felt she needed to come to the house to ensure that I knew there was nothing going on. I figured out for myself that there would be no date on the weekend and told the GF that it was ok. I understood. The following day she admitted that being with me in the house made her feel very awkward and uncomfortable. That really hurt!

Since the beach incident I have confessed to the GF my plans to file for the divorce. I have poured my heart out to her concerning my love for her and how much I need her in my life. Additionally I have become very proactive about demonstrating how much she means to me. I've gone out of my way to do the little things she was always so good at doing for me. Leaving little tokens on her car, sending text messages, etc. Things seem to be easing slightly. She has begun to tell me she loves me again, but is quite quick to say "Please don't" if the discussion between us seems to be too emotionally involved. For instance I asked her if it would be possible for her to come with me when I went to file for the divorce. I told her I needed her support and I wanted her to see that I was serious about what I was saying. She told me that she would definitely support me but couldn't go with me to do the filing because she didn't think she could handle the emotional stress of it at this time.

Here are my questions. 1.) Is the damage that has been done so great that there is a likelihood that we will never fully recover from it? 2.) Is my GF's counselor right in essentially forcing her (due to her seeming inability to make a decision for herself atm) into making decisions that she really appears less than happy about making (For instance remaining apart)? And finally, 3.) the GF admitted to me yesterday that she arrived at the conclusion during one of her sessions that the reason she was withdrawing from intimate behavior was because she realized that she "did not like being touched that way" because I "was not with her." Would that be considered a possible likely response to her feeling as though I was purposefully not committing to her, and possibly only using her. And will that dislike go away once I absolutely prove my committment to her is genuine?

BlueMan -

I think you're posting on the wrong boards. You sound like you want help to save your affair - and that is what it is. You are still legally married to your wife, even if you've been living apart for 5 years. Shacking up with another woman while still legally married is an affair.

You don't give any details as to what was wrong in your marriage, why you left, or even how involved you are in your children's lives. You mention that you broached the subject of divorce with your 18 year old daughter, and then she disappeared - and you segue into a blow-up with your girlfriend (without telling us if your daughter ever turned up).

IMHO, you're focus is wrong. You're focus should be on doing everything you can to repair your marriage - or at the very least get a divorce and then start dating.

If you are genuinely looking for help, you're going to need to shift your focus, because right now it's nowhere near in sync with the principles espoused by this site.

healingbird -

Forgive my inability to be complete. I find myself unable to think clearly within the last couple of weeks. My thoughts are all over the place, and concentrating is difficult.

As to what was wrong in the marriage... multiple affairs on her part, and no attempt to conceal them from me. In spite of all that she had done to me, when I finally decided I was going to leave, that's when she decided she wanted to try counselling. Everything out of her mouth was fabricated during those sessions so they were leading us nowhere. Her biggest worry was how she was going to carry on with her double life if I weren't home to watch the kids who were 12 and 8 years old at the time.

How involved am I in my childrens life? As involved as I can be. My relationship with my daughter has been strained since shortly after I left because my wife, broke into my car one day and found a journal I had begun to keep to organize my thoughts. I had given up most of my friends and never left the house so I had no one to talk to about my problem. I thought starting a journal might help me. In that journal was an entry about the girl I had started seeing. When she found it she ripped out every page, went running to my 12 year old daughter and told her I had a girlfriend.

Several months into my life away from "home" I knew there was no hope in saving my marriage. My GF's son was only a year or so older than my own so I arranged a meeting in the hopes of carefully introducing him to her and her son. I introduced her simply as my "friend" because he seemed pretty affected by the split although he never brought up the subject. My son and her son had a wonderful time together that night and my worries began to ease.

It was my son who actually asked when my GF and her son could come again a few days later. I made the phone call and arranged everything. She said they would be over after she got out of work and would pick up a pizza for so all could eat before the boys played. My son normally stayed with me every other day, but this happened to be a weekend and mom had asked if he could stay the entire weekend because she had "plans." I was more than happy to take him, but he needed more clothes so I brought him home and while his mother helped him get his things together I went downstairs to check my email. Next thing I know, she busts into my computer room and begins pushing and shoving and yelling and screaming. It seems my boy in his excitement over his anticipated evening had told mom that his new friend was coming over to play video games with him. Because of my journal mom was fully aware of my GF and her son's names. How did she handle it with my son. She told him that the boy and his mother were no good and told him she didn't want him near them. Needless to say the night never happened, and he never saw them again because I didn't want to put him in a difficult position with his mother.

There has never been any court orders rendered regarding child support or custody. I consider myself a responsible father and using my state's child support calculator I have given her exactly what the state would have ordered me to pay had I gone to court. That's $250.00 a week. In addition to that I've continued to pay the insurance on her car because it is registered to me (which has gone through the roof because of numerous accidents she has had), I pay half of each of the childrens tuition to the parochial schools they attend, and provide any other support they need when needed.

My daughter was found thank goodness. She had walked several miles home.

BlueMan -

If your wife had a history of affairs (i.e., was a serial cheater), why did you not divorce her? It doesn't appear to be for financial reasons, since you're voluntarily paying "child support".

Step back and think about the situation and the example you set for your children. Rather than take a hard line (with love) with your wife, you left and started your own affair. Your marriage may or may not have been salvageable, but you should not have been the one to leave. Add to that getting a GF while you're still legally married...sorry if I sound harsh, but you're setting a very poor marital example for your kids.

My advice to you, and I'm definately no expert, is the following:

1. End the relationship with the woman you've been seeing for the last 5 years. No matter how you color it, it was an affair, plain and simple.

2. Examine yourself and determine what role you played in your marriage that may have set the stage for your wife to seek affairs. Affairs rarely happen in a vacuum. While nothing justifies an affair (hers or yours), 99% of the time both spouses have contributed to the conditions that left the marriage ripe for an affair.

3. Once you finish step 2, you can figure out how to make yourself a better person, and then decide if you want to try and rebuild your marriage. If you don't, do the right thing - get a divorce, get your life back together, and then start dating again.

People on these forums are more than willing to help others who are following MB principles. However, you will not find much, if any, support for your current situation with your GF - even if you marry; affair marriages are not very popular around here (for obvious reasons).

From your first two posts I would like to paraphrase what you sound like,

“I left my wife because we were fighting every day and she was having a string of affairs. Shortly after separating from her I began an affair of my own with another woman that has been ongoing for the past five years even though my wife and I have never divorced. I tried to keep my affair secret but she found out and now my kids hate me too. To make matters worse my girlfriend is beginning to hate me because I have withdrawn from her and avoided her while I tried to sort out my feelings. I have now changed my mind and have decided that I want my girlfriend back because I am so lonely. I am even prepared to finely get a divorce to show my girlfriend that I really mean business. I bought her a CD of love songs and even wrote her a love letter. Still, her therapist recommends that she cut off all contact with me. Will someone please help me as I am really hurt?”

How does that sound? Does it smack a bit of an immature grownup? What is so unfortunate is that you have left a string of victims in your wake; your children, her children, your wife and your girlfriend are all sacrificial to the hunger of your ego. My friend, it just doesn’t read very well. Though I am sure that your intentions were initially well meant the outcome produced something far different.

The forum that you are posting in is a place where marriages are saved and girlfriends are severed so many of the responses you read will be less then kind. Still it might be a bit gracious to offer you some advice that perhaps you can use to make yourself a better person.

Your problems may have well started in your failure to examine the shortcomings of your first marriage. You obviously had poor communication with your wife and it is likely that neither understood what a marriage was really supposed to be. I would further suspect that if your wife were to paint her version of events there would be a marked departure from your version. You further mishandled your separation from your wife as you sought out another woman prior to divorcing your wife. At this point you have done a disservice to your children, your wife (regardless of her behavior) and your girlfriend. But most of all you have done a major disservice to YOURSELF.

It is now time for you to take a step back and honestly examine your selfish behavior. Keep this thought in mind, “Selfish behavior in a healthy relationship builds that relationship and fosters the growth of love; selfish behavior in a dysfunctional relationship destroys that relationship and fosters the growth of resentment.” Which side of the fence have you been on?

After five years it is perhaps time for you to divorce your wife and leave your former girlfriend to heal on her own.

I hope you think about this,

Mr. G