Hello, I would like to have the opportunity to talk to you...you know about both the areas I eed assistance in...

Tonight put me in a better mood...LOL..as usual...I'm fence sitting because the big picture is that things aren't that bad between us...one minute I'm ready to walk out the door and the next I think I've dealt with this attitude for thirteen years...if I just wait a minute there will be a mircle...

we talked about loving detachment and letting go...how we try to munipulate the situation, control it...I see myself doing that...I see myself sabotaging everything...not knowing WHAT I want...

bump

Rin,

Tell me...do you only make choices when things are bad between the two of you? Or do you make choices every moment, pretty much?

Fence sitting is choosing...to NOT do one thing, when you have the opportunity to do many others. Please know it is a choice.

Not knowing what you want definitely leads to chaos within you...which then is reflected in your life...

Can you sit down, breathe, clear your head and identify not what to do, but what you want?

Making that goal will help you see the choices you make towards that goal...being your own guide.

I read on your thread, and I will tell you here...I see wayward in your thinking...rewriting...your perspective is showing your pain, even if you aren't feeling it directly...get direct with yourself, 'k?

Divorcing is your only choice for separating in your state. I get that. Doesn't mean the end to everything. There have been folks here who have divorced and recovered...I see you seeing the end, all of what you don't want, that isn't within your control...and no boundary enforcements.

You even abused your WH on the phone...telling him he was a big boy, didn't you? This is P/A behaviors...instead of saying, "I feel like you're asking me why I didn't make you anything to eat. I know you're not asking that out loud."

Or

"I didn't make you anything to eat because I won't choose an action which I will resent. I know you're as capable as I am of providing for yourself. I respect your ability."

This isn't speaking down or up...just across. Knowing what is yours and what is his...if it helps you to state what you're DJing so you can then eliminate the DJ, then do that...and work on eliminating the DJs in your mind...

Congrats on your third meeting...anyone strike you as a sponsor you'd like? Anyone strike you? heehee

Loving detachment...catching your thoughts and seeing them, where they are coming from...keeps your focus off him, what he's doing/thinking/believing...so you can hear clearly what is his stuff, separate from yours.

You see yourself sabotaging yourself...from what? If you don't know what you want, how do you know you're keeping yourself from getting it?

To truly respectfully let go, I had to repeat the Serenity Prayer and the first three steps aloud, and in my thoughts...because I would consume myself in what wasn't in my control.

Sound familiar?

Like HL said...don't act from your fear. What would you do if you weren't afraid? What would you choose to do or say?

LA

THANK YOU LA! I really missed you helping me focus...I am filing for D, it get him out of the house.

I am Djing him from my fear and knowing his stubborness...from my fear...he will hurt me...from his stubbornness...he'll follow through with the D just to be stubbornness and show me...

I want a new M...not my old M, ..I'll do what it takes!

I would like to tell WH I'm filing. There's what I'm not sure of...I would like to say I've talk with my laywer this way it doesn't look like I'm trying to stab him in the back...that's me being honest and not trying to hid things...

Do I do a plan B letter in this sitch? Asking him to move out when I know that he won't...do a kids schedule? live with him until the removal petition is serviced? How to I do this without LBing so much?

yes, I was abusive...I don't want what we've have and I can't keep hoping that he will change...that's not living in reality...

I don't want to be treated like I have been...whatever happens happens I will be fine.

I got some major approval when I said last night that the book Burning wasn't about me. So, I'm trying, I'm trying my best!

Serenity and the first three steps, huh? okay, I can handle that. You know what's sad, I'm hiding my books now! Both my Al-anon books and the new book on A. Is that sad? I shouldn't have to live like this!

Sponsor...no striking! But there are a few people that seem really interesting to me!

As far as what I would tell WH, "I love you very much, but I refuse to be treated like you have been treating me. I am now scare that you will destroy more of my property, or hurt me. I don't have to live in fear of what you "might" do if I don't let you do what you want too. Since you are unwilling to help me better this M, then I'm filing for D. If you change your mind, I'm willing to try an reconciliate."

I feel like I make choices every moment, not just when things are bad! What time to go to bed, what we're going to eat, if I'm going to the store...yes, I make choices all the time!


I want my H back!


I should have said "I didn't know you wanted me to bring you anything, you didn't say anything about it!"

I was just reviewing what you wrote. I am feeling alot of pain because I feel like WH is not giving me a choice, that this is what I have to do in order to save my M.

Rin,

WH cannot limit your choice...he's not in control of them. I saw where you really got that Plan B was love...terrific! See, boundary enforcements are love...love of self and others. If you don't enforce your boundaries, you won't respect others' boundaries, either.

Two-way street.

In Plan B, you're not only enforcing your boundary for deception (he lied to you by omission), or abuse (burning your books which were symbols); you are enforcing the boundary around the marriage of no contact and no female friends outside of a couple's friendship.

This isn't you controlling...because you can't control his choices, either...nor not permit him his own...they are his. And he's choosing, just as you are choosing.

You are now clear on your goal...you want your real H back...you want to save your marriage and have a thriving one in a couple of years...wonderful goal. Stay focused on that goal, not on getting your WH to do or be anything.

Your pain is also coming from your perception of not having choices...that hurts self...I swear, all fantasy hurts self...I bet your pain drops a lot as you choose your perception, over and over again, recenter yourself.

And about what you said to WH...which is water under the bridge, no base from me...just a wake up pinch, 'k? "I don't make assumptions anymore. They are disrespectful. I know you will ask me for what you want."

You have automatic reactions...see them for what they are...they are routines...to include WH in everything...even supper, or lunch. Doing so now creates resentment in you, yet you'll have the automatic thought process to do it...which is why you're raising your awareness, not your anger...see the difference?

The difference between reactions and chosen actions is a split second pause...you'll feel the urge...to lash out, define or melt towards him. Recognize the urge...it's your habit, not your truth. Acknowledge your urge and think, "What would be a respectful response?" Then you act. Take your time...learn you don't have to respond instantly to be respectful. You don't. And the more you stop, know and then act, the faster it will become because you're training your brain to ACT not react.

Do this with everyone, including your kids (and I know you did this when you revoked your permissiont to raise your voice). You've proven to yourself you already know how to do this...it's just that these reactions are programmed in you, and until you signal them by pausing and acknowledging, they won't stop with the urges.

Practice...and each time, be aware you're doing this for you, because you want to live a respectful life with both hands around reality. There is no pain there, in reality, in your choices...lots self-acceptance, appreciation, admiration and attention. Good stuff. All in your head...and you'll grow to like your head a LOT more...it's smarter than you think!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

(((((((Rin)))))))))))

You make choices in your head, too, every moment...of what to think about...feel that power...be aware of your thoughts...are they present or past? Are you gathering evidence or being aware of this very moment? Are you in the future, is your fear up or down? That's training your brain to make the choice of thought, just as you choose how to perceive, what to believe...lots and lots of power...all yours...all valid.

If you continue to DJ in your mind, you know that villager comes from fear...tries to protect you and it is false, fantasy. It harms you more...each DJ you do towards WH in your mind, you permit yourself to do to you. OUCH! Stay aware and gentle with yourself. That's where the calm, reasonable voice will come from...you just think it's from your throat.

You don't need to tell WH you're filing...he will be served. When he asks what's wrong say, "You broke no contact. I am enforcing my boundaries."

Calm, reasonable...reciting from practice.

You KNOW you are not trying to stab your WH in the back...so what it looks like is what it looks like to others...you know your truth. Live in it. Stay there.

Yes, you do a Plan B letter after you have signed the D papers...another reason to not tell him until you actually sign them, 'k? Reality, not promises or threats...our wishful child will try to direct you--now he's being great! All I had to do was say I was gonna file and now he's being great! He broke contact for the third time. He knew what he was risking because you told him on DDay...and again, after that. You won't have more than two humans in your marriage. He knows. Trust yourself, respect he knows.

A lot of stuff looks the same on the outside of us...even when we've changed on the inside. Let go that control urge, Rin.

Do all you need to do writing the Plan B letter, doing the parenting schedule, going to the parenting classes, setting up family counseling for divorce, or a support group for the kids...separating your finances, etc. Removing yourself from his credit cards and vice versa.

You can't control how others treat you...up to you to enforce your boundaries when you cross them. You know this...control is key to you...when you get your focus off of him and onto you, you'll have clarity, stop spiraling, I promise.

Hiding your books isn't sad...that's your wishful child popping up...watch out for her...she causes a lot of emotions which aren't valid information...Hiding your books is acknowledging reality, self-care. A boundary enforcement.

Watch your shoulds...they are feeding your anger, resentment, frustration and fear...do not allow them...center yourself in what is...reality.

"I love you very much, but I refuse to be treated like you have been treating me."

Is this true? You cannot control how he treats you.

"I am now scare that you will destroy more of my property, or hurt me."

This is a valid "I" statement.

"I don't have to live in fear of what you "might" do if I don't let you do what you want too."

I think this is an untruth...I think you do fear what he might do, or even, what you might do when he becomes angry of afraid.

"Since you are unwilling to help me better this M, then I'm filing for D."

DJ alert..."You chose to attack our marriage when you talked to OW. You chose to leave our marriage vulnerable to more attacks because you chose not to change your cell number, write a no contact letter or stop going by the store. These are your choices and I respect I have no control."

"I want to save this marriage. I want my H back. I want to have a thriving marriage with him. I am enforcing our marital boundary of only two people in this union."

Stay true to yourself...write down, or practice aloud in front of the marriage. Check what you say against what is real, not assumed or supposed. I believe in you Rin. I believe you want this marriage. I believe you want the freedom of a truly respectful life, no control needed or desired, except over your own stuff...and to live from love, secure in yourself. Healthy boundaries and standards will get you there. You're on your way, no doubt.

You can do this...with grace, love and sincerity. Tell me, do you fear saying that to WH? And if so, why?

LA

Good Morning, LA!

F and I will be leaving soon. My dad's in Dallas, my Smom will be at work and my B worked last night so F and I will pretty much be on our own.

I need to speak some honesty here. For the past week, I have been feeling alot of pressure coming here. everyone recommending Plan B...saying it's the a loving means to get my M back on track. I have allowed my fear become bigger than it really is. I don't fear that much. I come here and I feel like my world is falling apart, I go to my meeting and feel like I can go on, that my M will be fine just hang in there.

I really feel like I can talk to you, as well as a few others. I've thought long and hard and I know that I'm allowing myself to be influenced negatively.

H ans I had a really good talk this morning. Similar to yesterday, I expressed my fear, so did he. He said that he does mind talking about us, it's just everyday is so much. I explained why I felt I needed a nc letter and cell phone number change. We just really talked. Like I said yesterday's conversation was really us, this morning was really us.

Perhaps I am being naive! Thing is he's felt so much pressure himself that he's gotten to the point where he didn't care, if things were going to be like this then he didn't want to work on things. We have agreed to not forgot or sweep things that need to be changed in our M under the rug, but to slow down and take care of them.

I admitted the pressure that I've feel. So, with plenty discussion with myself after he headed off to bed. I'm sticking it out, not because I feel like I can't make it on my own, or I fear that if I leave that he will hurt me, or that I feel it's to much hassle to split things up...I make a great salary. I'm capapble of repairing anything around here. I can handle my kids by myself.

I just know that I can't live in this state of confusion that I have been in the last week. I'm sticking it out...I know what I'm dealing with now.

I have learned so MUCH from you. This past week I don't know who I've been, couldn't figure out what "I" wanted...kept hearing this committee in my head saying "If you don't do this you won't be enforcing your boundaries..."

The fact of the matter is...I barely spoke two sentences to him yesterday, you know what he says to me today and it's him..."You killed me yesterday, barely speaking to me."

There's the difference that I've learned...the difference between him and I...our pattern of communication has gotten so much better...I have honestly stated what I feel when I feel it. We talked about thinking before you speak this morning and how when we're upset with someone else sometime it's like we take it out on each other. We agreed to work on that more, as well as a few other areas.

So, bottom line...I will not be coming here as often as I have been...it's gotten to be like an addition for ME...I'm not going to Plan B...I will talk to my laywer Monday and get some questions answered for information...

I didn't tell H any of this...he still thinks that I'm trying to make up my mind...

I was so upset last night with no one to talk to...I read in my blue book...I read on decisions, serenity, fear, honesty with self, changing what I can, and problem solving.
"I" calmed my own fears, I prayed...I slept better...and here I am today...

I'm tried of extremes...leaning from one to the other and back...there was balance in my life at one point and I know there can be again...

LA-Perhaps I don't have the words to thank you the way my heart wants to, if you were here I would hg you so tight and for at least a minute, if not more...you have touched my heart and will always be a part...you will stand out in my mind like my Latin teacher...I cherish you and thank God that you were brought into my life to help me learn what I didn't know...

I am going to continue my meetings, I feel feed after I attend...just like I feel feed when I talk to you and I'm continiously enlighten by your words...

So, thank you and I love you...what a great sister you would be IRL and are in cyberspace!

{{{{(((((Rin))))}}}

If you're leaving, I know you're in great hands...your own and God's...because he made your hands big enough to hold all of you.

You are my sister, my heart sister, Rin. I understand about MB, your choices...I really do. No judgment. Consider that us living reflected lives, we take opinions as facts...it's how we operated...and when we begin our own discovery of ourselves, there is conflict within and without...all from love, compassion, caring...hard to take the mirrors out of other people's hands. Do it, anyway.

Fear is not bad or wrong...it is as essential in us as love...it's contrast...without it, we could not experience love for what it is...your fear isn't bad or wrong...it's yours. Spend less energy on fighting it and more openness on understanding it...because you are courageous and brave. You know that.

Choose to act from faith, Rin. Faith in yourself, your H, your marriage, life and God...your act of faith is going to the meetings, even when you think you're cured...doing your self-care, training your focus to stay on you and in the present. All done from faith, which you choose.

You are doing this...please tell yourself, every step of the way, this is me, doing this! Because that acknowledges reality...and it's true.

You nourish yourself...you feed yourself...fill yourself...you just don't know that you're doing that yet. What you see in me is in you, all the way...I promise.

Your pain was halved because we shared it...and your joy will be doubled because you're sharing, it, too...it's a byproduct of living in truth, not it's purpose. In that, you'll find, the way to stop "taking out" on each other what has no need of being gotten rid of...but embraced.

You'll be in my prayers and thoughts, Rin...if you feel the hair rise up on your neck or if your palm gets itchy...you'll know.

Thank YOU, Rin, for bringing all of you to your posts, your life and into my own...you blessed me greatly. I love you, too.

LA

Good Morning! I'm not leaving permanately, I just strongly feel that it would be best if I didn't visit everyday...or what seems to me to be every waking moments...LOL

I'm going to post what's happened since yesterday on my thread. It's a big change...I'm not jumping in like HL(FNM) would say...I'm sticking my big toe in and testing the waters.

I have tons to be grateful for! The pressure I was feeling was my own...created by me...I realize this today...my head is REALLY clear! I enjoyed my time away...it was like meditating for 24 hours...LOL

Thank you for everything...I am choicing a new life because you inspired me to want better for myself! I WILL be around...I may have to influence you to keep you in line...I know how rowdy you can get! LMAO

Rin, Happy Birthday!

I went for a fitness walk this morning, alone, my self-care, and was feeling really good, seeing all the flowers, and such, and you immediately came into my mind. As I remembered, you built some neat shelves in the garage, the way you wanted to make them. Pardon me if it was something else that you had built, but it really hit me, right there, again, what this MB plan is about. It is about being who we are, if only we weren't so stuck in trying to create the realtionship with or partners that we thought we needed in order to be who we were meant to be. Funny how we found that while we were desperately searching how we could contort ourselves more into what we "should" be to "earn" the love we wanted in our marriage! I hope that made sense.

That you were doing something that would bring happiness to you, not something that "should" make you happy because you're "supposed to" be happy.

So I came back, wanting to write to you to thank you for your sharing what you did. And to thank you for how you helped me. I read you're shifting your investment of your time and presence and sharing from one place to another. And I am grateful that there are others who will be able to also grow from your sharing, just like I did. My thoughts and prayers are with you , Rin!

THANK YOU SO MUCH! I plan to have a wonderful day!

I'm so happy that it "hit you!" I LOVE Building things! IT'S THE ONE THING THAT CAN GET MY MIND OFF OF WHAT'S GOING ON TIN THE WORLD...MY WORLD!

I hope that you can add those thoughts to your self-care plan. Take care!

Good Morning! I hope that I find you well today!

For the most part I am doing good, but today I woke up with a heavy heart and I was wondering if you can give me some perceptive on it. I prayed on my way to work, which did make me feel a little better but I'm still concerned. My issue is trust. It's like I'm looking for things.

I understand that trust must be earned and that comes with time. My concern is that I'm looking for ways to close my mind and not focusing on the positive.

Yesterday, I got the new cell bill with the calls and TMs from the OW which has throw me for a loop. I was emotional at first but had plenty of time to settle down before seeing H. I also had a rough day in addition to this.

When I did see H, I was quiet but not withdrawn. I have practiced what I wanted to say. I simply stated "I got the new cell phone bill in today. I saw the two TMs in addition to the twenty minute call, and the TMs and call to the OW."

That was all I said. I explained about work and the issue that my boss and I got into.

H didn't say anything. I got off work early to spend time with him. I wasn't going to but he had been talking about it for two days, so I went ahead and took off. I has asked him if he had anything planned and he didn't. he asked the same of me and I didn't. I said that I guessed that he would have planned something since he was the one wanting the time and said that I hadn't planned to take the time off.

We ended up going to a store, and he bought his pair of chaps. On the way there, he said that I was accusing him and looking for things. I said that I was sorry that he felt accused but I was not accusing him. I simply stated that I knew about them and that I was not going to waste my energy repeating how I felt about it that he already knew. I said that I was not trying to control him, that he was a grown man, and that I can't make him do anything that he doesn't want to do. I said that I was not going to fight with him about it anymore but I would let him know that I knew what he was doing/did.

I was not emotional, my tone was even, and I felt good about what I said. Later that night when I bought him supper after my meeting, he asked me to smile, to show that I was in a good mood because he couldn't tell. He said that he can't read my body language now and what mood I'm in. I said that I was feeling reallt good, that I was happy on the inside and felt peaceful.

After I drove off, I thought about what he said and called him to ask him if he was asking me to smile to reassure him. He said yes, in a way. I told him that I could offer no more reassurance to him than he could to me right now. He asked that if I was in a good mood that I show it. I explained that I was really enjoying my meeting, making new friends, and met a really good person that night.

I told him that I felt at peace and that the things that I was grateful for was what was pulling me through this time. He said that he was very happy that I found something that I was enjoying.

H has been very loving. We haven't had SF since Sat. and I wasn't sure about ti then but I did and enjoyed myself. I wasn't sure because it meant that I would be vulnerable. I'm still protecting myself and am unsure about SF.

We have had an issue come up with F. I explained F's reaction to what his dad said to him and that I had to calm the child down. I told H that he wasn't easy to talk too. Later, I went to tell F that he needed to talk to his dad this morning and the child's whole demenor changed.

I told H, and he said that F shouldn't be scared to talk to him. I said that F has a problem speaking up for himself and a fear of rejection.

F's a very senitive kid, always has been. Well, H tolf F that he wanted to talk to him and that he wasn't in trouble. I'm not sure what the conversation was but H is going buy a cassette recorder so that we can recorder F's spelling words on it to study them. F's also going to bring his spelling book home today so that we can study a little this weekend.

Anyway, I'm feeling better right now and I understand that trust has to be earned. I was just wondering if you could point me in the right direction.

Oh, I still haven't heard from my attorney yet. I did call yesterday to check on a few thing and his asst. didn't have the answers to my questions, so she's going to remind him to call me. I have been saving some money, preparing just in case. I really feel good about me, but negative thoughts are lingering this morning, so I felt if I wrote about it I would feel better. I know that I can't concentrate on the future because my thoughts are how can I stay with someone that I don't trust?

Patience are a problem. This mornig, I'm having trouble focusing on today and not the future. I'm very painfully aware of this and know that I am punishing myself when I do this.

Thank you for letting me talk this morning. I appreciate having a place that I can do this.

Morning, Rin,

I am well.

How can you live with someone you don't trust?

Re-read what Dr Harley wrote on that issue...because it's easily done. We are taught differently...that our partners will secure all harm from us and from them...which isn't real to me.

Use this as a signal to you from you, Rin..."how can I stay with someone that I don't trust?" Check to see if that is something you've heard a lot...going way back. Was to me. It was an early belief I took on as my own, as a child. I couldn't trust my parents to not hurt me, or my sister, or my friends or boyfriends. I discovered as an adult that a lot of what I expected wasn't true...not all cops are trustworthy; nor are school administrators, politicians, or bosses. Coworkers.

We live, work, listen to and have relationships with them, anyway.

Trusting ourselves is key...yes, trust is half earned and half given...still a balance to that equation...and no, your WH hasn't been trustworthy now for nearly a year, has he? Yet you've lived with him. When you talked with him last night, answered his questions...did you trust yourself all the way through it? Not to misstep, misspeak?

Getting comfortable with trusting ourselves goes a long way to rebuilding trust in a marriage. You are not in that place yet...still in flux and change. Finding your new way...trust is usually built on repetition, evidence, routine. Changing our routines, our habits and perceptions can feel like free fall. We live through it, anyway. It's necessary.

Relaxing with the whole idea that right now, you can not trust and still love...that you can choose to respect and not trust...teaching ourselves a new perception of reality...and would you consider that may be why you have a higher urge to jump into the future right now?

One of the many heart-rending parts of infidelity is the destruction of trust--and routines, evidence of love...yet you're seeing how necessary that those beliefs are changed...the balance of nothing all bad nor all good...living in the middle of life. Turn your trust thoughts onto yourself, gently, consistently...

You were brave and true last night in speaking your stuff...and you were quick to clarify that your WH reads you...which is DJing...to read your mood...and you're not following your routine (more affirmation of change)...share with him how you are concentrating on not DJing...not reading bodies, minds or souls...because you aren't.

Good to know, huh, Rin? Your WH reads, assumes, interprets and fashions his perceptions to be the way he most wants them...just like we did...instead of being respectful of being separate and equal...of asking...clarifying...not digging...and sharing.

Could the sadness you woke up with be grieving the loss of routine? Even when something is slowly destructive, it is ours, part of us, our constant choice. Letting that go can feel wistful, wishful, sad...a habit of emotions, information handed to you...and that's healing, accepting and deep acknowledgment.

Can you think back and tell me if anyone in your life growing up was consistently sad, down, negative, wistful? Or maybe you were told when you grieved (a lost toy, a dead goldfish, a move) to buck up, chin up, don't act out your sadness and you heard--don't feel it?

Do you accept you're in a place right this minute where you're dealing with fresh betrayal? You shared what you knew, without accusation or attack...how marvelous is that? What a GREAT choice! Did you secretly wish to hear, "I am deeply sorry and it will not happen again"? And if so, is that an adult wish or a child-like one? Because as children, we'd rather be lied to when our folks tell us bad news...we believe it protects us even as we know it betrays who we really are...acknowledge that wishfulness and know that your WH's choices are totally his, not about you at all...and that's where it hurts the most, doesn't it?

You're still gathering information, making choices...you are not locked in or locked up...you are as free as you allow yourself to be...and you have many choices. You are doing well...watch the judgment of what isn't yours, separating actions/words from personal stuff, 'k?

Then you'll ease off yourself, too...and embrace more...feel embraced more...trust yourself more, and feel trusting more...

How 'bout practicing your truth..."Each contact, TM or voice or email...anything...continues your affair. I know you know you're choosing to do this, to continue your affair. My love bank took a huge hit for the 20 minute call and more from the TMs and your call to OW" (he called her after she called him?).

I loved how you said he knew what you felt when there is contact.

Punishing yourself...think of your focus like a toddler...wants to run ahead, blindly...and you gentle move your focus off the future and back into the present...without punishment or bashing...your focus believes there is succor in anywhere but right now, and the more you embrace and bring it back to the present, the more he can be comfortable in it.

You're doing this for you, your marriage and your life. What you learn now, practice and commit to, so will you be able to pass on to your sons. What a wonderful gift. You are a wonderful gift.

You are doing this...believe in yourself...you're real.

LA

Hi! I wanted to think about what you said long and haer before I wrote also I have more information.

About ten minutes after I wrote this morning, WH stopped by my office. I greeted him with "Hi, How are you doing?" "You look really tired!" But I couldn't look at him much more than that. He said that instead of looking for F's cassette recorder he went to the other shop to get the rest of his tools that he needs. We conversed about that and the there people a bit.

I don't know how it started, I think I opened my mouth. I said that I was having trust issues, and I understood that it's a slow process. He asked why I didn't call him. I said that I was trying not to talk to him about things like that b/c he said that he didn't want to hear it. That's why I love my meeting so much. I can be feeling very low about us and come out of it feeling like I can go a little further. He just listened.

I said that I woke up with a heavy heart and how I was feeling about trusting him. I said I was scared of opening up to him b/c I have been hurt three times now. I mentioned about SF, said that I was scared to do it because that mwould mean I was vulerable to him again. I said but when I did jump in last Sat. that it was really great. He asked if once a week was good enough for me.

I said no! He was quiet again. I remember him asking if it made me feel better to withhold sex. I said that I wasn't withholding that withholding to me was punishing him and I wasn't trying to punish him.

I talked some more and he answered a question about a phone call I asked about last night. He said that he had to think about it but he had let one of the Vietenesse (sp) workers use this phone at a little before 2am. I said that would explain the foreign name that it belonged too. I also stated that he was the one who intiated contact.

I said that's not what was said the other day. He said nothing, and I looked at him when I said it. I returned to my work saying that I felt that we needed a separation. I did tear up and a few slid down my cheek and my nose was starting to run. I would wipe away the tears as I worked, but wouldn't look at him.

I said that I had called my laywer last Friday and was still waiting for him to return my call, that there is no legal separation here, but we did need to separate. I repeated that I was in a bad place and that I was trying to stop the thinking but it wasn't working today.

I was trying not to think about the future and change my thinking to be more positive. I said that I would pull myself out of it by this afternoon.

He said to look at the flipside. I said please help me with that b/c I'm having a hard time seeing it. We changed the subject, talked about a few things, and walked onto the porch.

I said that I wasn't about to start going to church and becoming a Bible beater but that I was so angry with God for so long that I felt I needed to have a better relationship with him. WH nodded his head in agreement but didn't say anything.

I said that I'm trying to improve some R that I need to, giving the example of my mom and stepdad. I said that I wished it was improved a long time ago, but that they say that we get what we need when we need it.

We changed the subject and before he left I said that I understood it was about my fears and that I needed to overcome them. We pecked each other on the lips and he said that he was going home to get some sleep.

So, I'll address your post now. I'm SO sorry that this is going to be long.

I can't find what SH wrote on trust and I've read alot of the articles today. Can someoneassist with a link? I haven't replaced my books either.

I did trust myself to speak yesterday and today, knowing that if I did misstep or misspeak that I could correct myself.


It's possible! I was very happy last night at the meeting. I acknowledge and thrilled that I spoke with accusing or attacking him. I thought earlier that day "Don't say what you have to say in question form! Use "I" statements." It WAS MARVELOUS!

I think that it's more of the fresh betrayal. OW#1, I mentioned the phone call, well in addition to that there were two TMs. WH TMed her at 12:01pm...she called him at 5:08pm and she TMed him after that. Nothing since then. The other calls and TMs I spoke about were with the new "friend". Nothing from her since I called and went to her place of employment.


WHAT? Of course, I heard "dry it up or I'll give you something to cry about." I learned the only time to cry was in my bed at night into my pillow, so no one could hear. Sometimes, I still do it! I'm ashamed to cry in front of people. It's kind of like...what the point...even now I'm not going to get a hug or anything even...

I guess I should say from WH or even H...


Yes, I ACCEPT that! Different rung...same feelings, old compounded with new...


I'm not sure what you mean here but I did tell WH today that I worried about coming home now. I told him that I try hard not to judge him, to accept him for who he is as he's asked, but that I was fearful of him judging me...that the negative stuff about him was once the positive stuff I liked about him but life's got in the way...I said that I was trying to look at the positive attributes that I fell in love with.


Did you really? I heard you in my head saying don't repeat yourself...HE KNOWS!

Thanks to SOOOO many people, I am doing the best that I can right now! One of the ladies last night even hugged me and told me that it would be okay. I was rather shocked to be honest. It felt good though!

Thank YOU LA! Just for being you and let me be honest by knowing YOU and sharing with you...

Rin not about your fears and overcoming them. You shouldn't trust him now. He has proven up until this point that trusting him can cause you hurt and pain.

It is about him earning your trust so you don't have that fear. There is a big difference.

As far as trust.


There you go on SH feeling about trust.

I see that your M is not A proof yet and that may give you a reason not to trust.

I think the best you can do right now is understandable.

You know I am kinda curious as to what he meant when you talked about a separation. The alternative.

See, I'm not sure and I don't really remember at what point he said it. I think I was talking about me thinking about the negative. I don't think it was during the separation part.

I'm not sure I'm going to let it stew. I'm in a beter place than I was this morning! I think that's what matters the most...I was just stating what I felt to make me feel better...LOL...he's opinion sorta doesn't count right now...LOL...being WS!

Rin,

To be honest I haven't really posted to you because I don't know what to say.

It seems to me you are internalizing all of your "faults" and putting a lot on your shoulders.

You are not really thinking about the negative. You are thinking about reality that is negative. I think there is a difference. You see if it was all in the past and there was NC and he was doing what you asked for the protection of you and your M you may need to think like that. From where I sit he is not doing that.

You can only own what is yours. I mean is it really unreasonable for you to think his actions are negative. What is the positive in what he is doing for you or your M. I don't see any.

To me you are calling it like it is. You do not have an open M and he seems to think you do.

So now what is the alternative to a separation? Staying together under his terms? I don't think I could do that and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

So you are staying calm which is good. The only thing you can do now is to react like you are so there is no regret on your part for DJing or LBing.

If you see the quote on trust he hasn't earned it yet.

I really appreicate the honesty. I value your opinion...I've said it more than once...No, I don't see him doing anything for our M either. And No, he hasn't earned any trust.

I am calm...I'm saving money it may take me awhile to gather what I need for the retaining fee...I'm not sure right now but from what the laywer's asst. said it could be anywhere from $500 to $2500...

I'm putting away anywhere from $60 to $100 a week depending on what's going on...he doesn't pay attention to the finances so he won't notice.

I'm hoping for a miracle...waiting my fifteen minutes...LOL...something they say at the meeting!

I saw WH a little while ago...I can say that he wasn't talkative. He woke up late. I made him two sandwiches and he went to work.

I don't know...I can say this...I have examined my intentions for telling him about the call to the lawyer and separation to make sure that I wasn't trying to manipulate him...

I can honestly saw that I'm not...I'm actually ready...I think that it would feel good, but at the same time, I feel good around him...sometimes, like after I talked to him this morning, but that could be just because I spoke me peace...

I haven't looked at it that far yet. Thank you for speaking up and thank you for the quote. Perhaps, I have more patience than I think...perhaps not...we'll see!

I will give him credit for this...contact has been less and less...with longer time spans between them...but that's all I can say about it...

Rin,

About separating what you judge...we judge actions...not people. Keeping that separate...you are judging his contact as an attack on your marriage. That's true. Judging him to be bad or uncaring or good is not. That's why you said you're accepting him for who is, his essence...it's his choices which really suck.

I think you did a fantastic job with your O&H statements. After reading FNM (thank you FNM for finding that same quote that I had in my head) post with Harley's quote in it on trust, do you believe you are grieving trust or a wisfulness inside you...a belief you got when you were little...husbands should be trustworthy...?

Now you know that grieving involves more than tears and that you need to reparent your inner child in the art of grieving...you didn't have great models for that. You are one, now. As you learn how to fully grieve (even expectations, wishes and routines), then you'll better understand the information being handed to you as sadness is truly God's compassion for us, for humans to heal themselves.

You noticed deeper betrayal when you found out he initiated the call...does that mean you had a hidden belief that him accepting the call when you thought she'd initiated was less painful, less attacking to your marriage?

In your boundaries, is the store out of bounds for your WH? I didn't forget about the new OW...I forgot how much his going to that store rankled me. It would be like my DH continuing to drop by his old store and say hi to everyone...pretending it is harmless and he's entitled.

I point this out as signals, not condemnation. Identify your boundaries thoroughly, Rin. Tell me them again...the way back for him...as you prepare to be a lighthouse.

LA

Okay, I knew that! Judging someone's actions...

Definitily, trust...I sure didn't grow up thinking that H's are trustworthy. MOF, I haven't trusted very many people in my life...I trusted him...he was one of the few that I did...horrifing lesson to learn...that's what makes it so hard...that's why it hurts so much...

Never in all my years would I have thought he would have hurt me...in any form or fashion...for me it's the broken trust and the lies that a deal breaker...not the OW or the sex...it's the TRUST for me...that's what it ALL boils down too...

TO me there's only one thing that's worse than lying and that stealing...


Yes, I did take it that way. That way I got to believe that...what he said...me...trusting his words when he hasn't earned it...wistfulness...yes...admitting that is hard for me...wistfulness...so eager to want to believe him...and proves again and again that I can't...

Well, that was the third strike...he's out...

I want to hate him so bad...but I can't...

My boundaries...

NC for life with OW...

I can't even think right now...I'm upset...my head was so clear...I had all of my boundaries lined out in my head...then I'm thinking how the heck I'm suppose to reparent my child...I mean I've done the same thing to my kids..."Dry it up!"...

How do I learn to grieve? I barely cry...I was really good at showing my anger...A++++ on that test...Reparent my child...

Thanks LA for letting me talk it out...I feel confused, hurt, naive, and lost but I know where I am.

Oh, how I wish I had the money, I would be dark in a minute...