BE GENTLE with me, Rin...I told you I am a MID LIFER!!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

At least, my sons are younger than you are. I started late.

There's a book, Paths to Recovery, that you can buy at the meeting, lots of great questions. In my area there is a step meeting that you can go to work the steps with or without a sponsor, and they work the step for the current month - like this is the 10th month, so it's step 10. Do they have one in your area?

Also, Rinder, if you haven't met the person you want to be your sponsor, you can ask someone to be a temporary sponsor for you.

Step one, admitting that you are powerless over others, I think goes hand-in-hand with Plan A, what do you think?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> LMAO


I'm Sorry...I hope you got a laugh! Late start...no way...I did the same thing...I wanted to graduate college first!

I had a plan...it's after the kids that the plan got shot to he!! and back...LMAO

LA- I was wondering if you can help me explore a new feeling that I have now...fear of checking the cell phone record...

I not ready to check it yet but I thought about it last night and then again this morning...

I now that I have to gather my courage and I will do this...live beyond the fear...I've really been shocked at how I'm able to do this...this time it's furious...

I do plan to state my feelings as soon as I figure out how I want to word it...I do plan to have a conversation with him about protection...I still have my H...he's still being nice...he had a little attitude last night but come to find out it was associated with work...

He has said in the past that when I speak to him it's a matter of how the subject is approached...is I trying to learn a new way...the way you've been teaching me b/c it's been working...

I'm sure that my fear is so great because of the recent betrayal...but this one's like a lump in my throat that I just can't swallow...

Given his pattern of behavior it's too early...first break in NC was 37 days and the last was 42 days...it seems to be more of a lack of self-control...

Even if I had a NC letter I believe I would still feel the same way...given his PA behavior...I really don't feel that a NC letter will help me at all...

We were talking this morning and he said something about fixing my mom's fence on her property down here (she lives in TX)...I asked him "Do you REALLY want to take on that responsiblity?" he said "No, not really." I replied "Well, then don't worry about it!" He had asked me the next time I talked to her to ask her about repairing the fence...I knew he didn't want to take on something like that...so I verfied before I even helped him set himself up...

We did have a little situation about a fork last night...I fixed his lunch box last night to bring him lunch and I assumed that the fork in the top was clean...it wasn't...

For fault for assuming...I should have checked on it...asked...something...needless to say I had to go back up to his work to bring him one...becuase there was no way to wash it...the only soap that they have is that gritty stuff to remove grease from your hands...

So, I asked if in the future he would be kind enought to put dirty utilies at the bottom of his lunch box...he also had a plastic fork in the top that was dirty too...

I know that this sound petty but for some reason after I got home, it bothered me...I brought him a fork and a bag of clean plastic ones...he said you know what you say about assuming...

I thought about what Mulan said about breaking your own rule...LOL...I can't put my finger on why this is bothering me...he didn't call me to complain...I called him to see how the food was...I told him this morning that the fork thing is bothering me for some reason and I can't figure out why...that's when I asked about why he couldn't clean it...

So, I guess this morning I'm really dealing with two issues...

Rin,

Just wanted to check in and say hi.

I am just going to tell you what I am going through at this point and let you draw your own conclusions.

As you know I am in MC. The biggest issue I have right now is I have not forgiven my FWW for her A. I am actually trying to figure out if I can forgive her now and forgive myself for staying. It may not be possible to do both. I may be able to forgive her if I leave her because then I don't have to worry about forgiving myself for staying.

The reason I am at this point is all of the damage that has occured since D Day that I didn't protect myself from. She was not protecting me or my feelings or the love that I had left for her after the A.

What has happened is the exact opposite in almost every sitch. I know now it is part of her PA behavior. Had I known this a long time ago maybe things would be different. I sometimes kick myself because maybe if I handled the sitch differently things would be different right now. However I don't want to be controlling, I don't want to be a parent, I don't want to be an enabler.

I did a horrible job of protecting the love I had left for my FWW. I never thought it was my job to do that. I always believed it was her job, her responsibility. When it became apparent that she wasn't going to do that I should have done what is necessary to do that.

Now when I look back I should have plan B'd her. I should have walked out the door when she refused to remove a trigger from my refrigerator for over a year after D Day. She was not protecting me, I should have.

I am now sitting here today looking at a women I would have walked to the end of the world for and back thinking I probably wouldn't walk to the corner for her now. Why because I didn't protect that love.

My fault in that one. I didn't do what was necessary on my side to make sure that if she ever decided that she wanted to work toward a better M that it would matter to me.

I took ownership of mine. I just didn't enforce my boundries with her. That may cost me my M. I wish I would have done a better job of protecting the love I had for her.

Sometimes I look at your thread and I see you trying but then I see the hurt, pain and sorrow you have because he is not protecting the love you have left for him. You need to think about that. Don't wait until a day comes that you look back at all the things he has done to hurt you and you will not be able to forgive yourself for staying.

I know you love him, that is apparent. You need to love yourself and most importantly protect the love you have left.

If you don't then one day you may regret you didn't.

How are you going to protect that love?

Notice my BEHAVIORAL bias. LOVE is a VERB. The NC LETTER, IMO, is not about helping your feelings as much as your WH EVIDENCING his LOVE for you..and his COMMITMENT to the MARRIAGE. It's also about PROTECTING your MARRIAGE..as in the FOUR RULES for a SUCCESSFUL MARRIAGE..I know Mimi, with her BROKEN RECORD..Do you know what a record is, YOUNG WOMAN? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

HI, guys! LOL...Yes, mimi...LMAO...I still have a few...LOL

Well, a little update...discovered more lies by omission...I made a call...a really hard one and I'm filing...money's on the way...

I have no trust and I'm so empty...I left work early today I was so nausau...haha...I can't even spell correctly...

I can't do any more...I'm done...and I'm okay with that...

I'll be around later...looks like I'm going to need some support...as soon as the money comes in I'm opening a new account and I have some other things that I need to do...

Thank you all for being here for me...mimi...your care and concern mean so much to me!

FNM...I can't imagine the rest of my life with this behavior...and I'm not going to try...I''m done!

LA-I can't express how much you mean to me!

(((((((RIN!!!!)))))))

I'm so sorry, hon.

Wish I had something wise and wonderful to say.

I'm thinking about you and praying for you!!!

We're here when you're ready, Rin...

I can't spell nauseous, nauseated, or whatever, either.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

HI, I doing well! I went to my meeting...at first...old habits, I wasn't going to go but I did...and glad that I went...great support...

I really don't have much to say...I think the hardest part was having to call and ask for the money from my parent's who didn't approve on our interracial R. MOF, my stepdad asked if drugs were involved...Lord, no...I'm just dealing with a very sad person who's making bad choices...

I feel so sorry for him...he has no clue...he doesn't realize what he's doing to his family...

Granted, I'm not perfect...I've made tons of mistakes but I'm done...I have to think of what's best for me and my kids...I can't live with a liar...plus a cheat...

I've dealt with years of lying...way before these As...I have to make a new life...so today is the first day of the rest of my life...I'm sure that I will have some bad moments but I know now I can survive them...

I'm scared but that's good change is scary...

...I looked back over the past four months of cell phone bills today...OW#2 has been there...just more active now because OW#1 iss not in the pic...

LOL...OW#2 lives in the same complex...the NC call with OW#1 could have been them arguing about OW#2...LOL

I talked to OW#2 today, called her at work...just friends...all of them at the store TM WH...I said no, all of them don't...

Then, the number I looked up...I called it...it was OW#2 home phone...I left a nice message...I do mean nice...I was very polite...

So, this is not Plan B...I want this to end...I want to heael and I want to move on...

I feel like I'm quitting and I'm not a quitter...

Well, my mom and stepdad are so concerned that they would like for me to call them everyday...I agreed...I'm concerned about the threat and the book burning...his dad's history and mental health is not all that great...LOL...

WH's dad poured gasoline around himself in the hall of his house and threaten to light it...I'm not taking any chances...

I know I probably sound like I'm justifing not doing a Plan B and jumping the gun but this has been on my mind, as you all know for a while...I'm tired and if I wouldn't have come here everything would had continued...

So, I feel like I'm making a hard but good decision...

Okay...I'm ready...let me have it...LOL...I'm good...I can handle it...

Rin- I am sorry it came to this. You are the one living this not any of us. You need to do what ever you need to for you and the boys. I for one thinks you are wonderful.

Its to bad you WH can't see how wonderful you are. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

You will be in my prayers

PS. Stop by my new stich when you get a chance.

Peace be with you.

Rin,

I understand how hard it was to call your folks...hear their questions (and the assumptions behind the questions).

I support whatever choices you are going to make in your life. I really do. I respect your life...what I'm going to post isn't me attempting to change your mind, your perceptions, feelings...nothing.

I take your post as coming from a lot of pain inside you, 'k? This isn't judgment. And I'm giving you a hug for noticing your old urge, fear, and going to the meeting, anyway. ((((Rin))))

"I feel so sorry for him...he has no clue...he doesn't realize what he's doing to his family..."

I don't know if he realizes it or not. I'm comfortable with not knowing that. I know the reality that his continued contact, lack of NC letter, not choosing to change his cell number, his going by the store, etc. That's the reality.

"Granted, I'm not perfect...I've made tons of mistakes but I'm done...I have to think of what's best for me and my kids...I can't live with a liar...plus a cheat..."

I know that comparing your stuff to his stuff just gets all twisted up. Keep it separate. When you compare, a judgment, then you entwine. I live with a man who lied, cheated, stole and chose very destructive actions for many years. My DH lives with a woman who lied, cheated, AO'd, DJ'd, IB'd, SD'd...gosh, the whole alphabet. I choose to be married to this man. I would not choose to be married to this man if he continued contact, made himself available to it and did not honor our marriage.

"...I looked back over the past four months of cell phone bills today...OW#2 has been there...just more active now because OW#1 iss not in the pic..."

Thank you for updating us. It's important. I believe your WH knows exactly what he's doing and the consequences of it.

"LOL...OW#2 lives in the same complex...the NC call with OW#1 could have been them arguing about OW#2...LOL"

Keep steady on what benefits you...how does going into this fantasy benefit you? Not knowing is okay. I believe you're harming yourself by dwelling there.

"I talked to OW#2 today, called her at work...just friends...all of them at the store TM WH...I said no, all of them don't...

Then, the number I looked up...I called it...it was OW#2 home phone...I left a nice message...I do mean nice...I was very polite..."

I think this is great boundary enforcement and exposure. You are calling reality what it is...and doing so, respectfully.

"So, this is not Plan B...I want this to end...I want to heael and I want to move on..."

Would you consider that Plan B is for healing, and this to be the first step towards it...you filing to do this...because you do not know the future...and what you choose to do now, based on what you think you'll feel then is like lying to yourself...it's a wayward state of mind...so doing progressive, predetermined, respectful boundary enforcements is what you take with you for all time...that you know you chose, not from feelings, but from your goal. Choosing your actions not reacting.

Plan B is going dark, with a third-party intermediary...like a lawyer. You won't be divorced in a day...so the interim could be your Plan B...depends on you. If you are choosing to go straight to Plan D, that is your right...you were betrayed. However, that was your H's right three years ago, and he didn't take it. Redemption is what we do for ourselves...an act of love. Al-Anon shows you how to amend...and you have these last three years...would Plan B show you, also, more about yourself, your true Rin...instead of that self-image which has been tugged, pushed, squashed and rebuilt time and time again?

"I feel like I'm quitting and I'm not a quitter..."

You can feel like you're quitting and know you are not. Your choice.

"WH's dad poured gasoline around himself in the hall of his house and threaten to light it...I'm not taking any chances..."

Good to know.

"I know I probably sound like I'm justifing not doing a Plan B and jumping the gun but this has been on my mind, as you all know for a while...I'm tired and if I wouldn't have come here everything would had continued..."

The first thing about justifications is that you suspect they will be seen as justifications. Not an easy task to separate reasons from them. Let's try, 'k? If you can say "I am choosing to end my marriage without going to Plan B when I can, for no other reason but my sole choice...no one forcing me there, no underlying anger, pain or fear. I no longer want this marriage for no other reason than I do not want it." Then do it. Plan B gives you time to sort through your stuff, heal and know reality with both hands...because your goal remains your marriage.

Plan D...changes your goal.

"So, I feel like I'm making a hard but good decision..."

LA

Hey, Rin.

Just wanted to stop by and tell you I'm still thinking about you.

Only you can know what you need to do. I would only say to make sure you're focused and taking it slow and not just reactingwhen you make this decision. I don't know what else you could do, though, other than a Plan B/Plan D combo package, to enforce the lying boundary.

What does your WH say about all this lying? Have you asked him about it yet? Will it be WW3 is you confront him with it? Think it would be enough to make him leave (hasn't he made noises about leaving recently, if you can't "accept him as he is")?

Hang in there, you know we're all here for you!

-AmI.

FNM- Hi, I'm just now getting around to reading your post...I tried earlier today but I just couldn't concentrate...

LMAO...I totally see what you're saying...can you tell? With me filing?

I do love him and I don't think that will ever change...I have two amazing boys with him but I can't take anymore...thing is I don't want to hate him, I do have to deal with him for the rest of my life...Is that what you mean...protecting the love I have for him...knowing that I will have to deal with him no matter what...

I get it...I was fighting so hard to stay together...and now, I've decided that I just want all of it to end...

I've tried getting him into MC for so many years...I even had his BF talk to him about it...there's nothing else I can do here, in my M that will change anything...I'm tired of looking like the happy couple to everyone on the outside, defending him...

When I exposed a lot of people were shocked...didn't think that their were any problems...and what did it take for me to see what he was/is doing betrayal after betrayal after betrayal...that's not a life...

There were no hugs when I was upset and crying over something pre-A...there was no partnership...I let him have him way...denied my feelings...held all the anger and resentment in...abused my kids verbally b/c I was taking it out on them...

I always wondered why I felt like I could really be myself when he was gone...told several of my friends that...I was happy and would have more fun when he wasn't around, not only with my kids but with my friends...

I'm not saying that's his fault...I don't blame him even for stepping out...it's our fault for not addressing the problems...I tried...threaten D from time to time...well, all I have to say is...I'm done...

My plan for me...work on me...continue my meetings...stay in my job...take care of my kids...and try my best to work out my issues...Lord knows I don't need to carry any baggage along in my life...LOL

I'm sad...I'm grieving...today I felt pain and (cr@p, I forgot what the other feeling was)...no anger...I was calm talking to my mom and it wasn't until my stepdad got on the phone that I starting crying (he's the one writing the check!). LOL

I was shaking so much at the meeting and I started the reading...my voice was so shaky...then my phone rang...it was my mom, so I stepped outside...a member followed...LOL

The same one that I wanted to ask to be my sponsor...she hugged me and I was very willing to get it...it felt good...through tears I said that I wanted to ask her to sponsor me but if she had her plate full, that I understood...

She agreed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm tearing up about it now! HAHA

We walked back inside and I was able to collect myself by the time it was my turn...I reviewed the past six months and said that I felt that I was on Step five after this weekends conversation with WH. I admitted all the things that I use to do to try to hurt him...control him...

I told him I was sorry...and I felt so good afterwards...well, I came off my high today...he wrote a note before he left saying:

"It's funny. you did wrong and nothing of this magnitude was done but look out if someone does wrong to you it just keeps going and going. You keep looking for things to make you unhappy, you will never be happy...me"

It didn't even bother me...I read it while he was here...I see what he's trying to do...it's okay...

The note did give my the courage to call my mom...

So, here I am...focusing on only what I can see...

Thank you...all of you...all my little blessing in disguise...LOL

Oh, HI, all! I read and post in a minute...thank you for being here.

YES! I don't need to be wounded for wahtever the future holds...


YOU nailed it. I wasn't angry today...I was hurt deeply...no anger...

I stated that I knew who he called the night that I was at my dad's at 12:48am while he was at the bar and walked off. Sat on the sofa for a few minutes and decided to take a nap...slept a little while and waited for him to leave to call...calm...hurt...but calm...

I did good!

AmI-


Did you read his note to me?

The only other thing I said to him today was "Now I know that you lied about that too!" Nothing else...I sat, waited on the clock and went to get F to bring him to religion...when I came back there was the note..

What I have planned is not to tell him anything and Plan D...just let him be served...I told him I was done fighting...I'm not wasting my energy anymore...I'm just stating what I know and leave it at that...

I'll worry about the next step when I get to it...for the time being...I do what needs to be done...call my parents everyday so they know I'm ok...fill in my bosses so they will know and keep my month shut...be civil to WH...

MF- Thank you so much for thinking of me...I DO appreciate that! you're a blessing as well! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Just a little thought this morning...Good morning!

One of the things that bothers me is...I saw my H and saw him alot these past days...now the H that I know was WH...so my question to myself is who is my H?

How can someone do great things for you and be stabbing you in the back at the same time?

You know I've got a trust issues now...LOL...but I know that I can't trust WH, but I can trust learn to trust OP...I feel like I have a great support system for the first time in my life...THAT feels GREAT!

I'd like to say I'm sorry to anyone that I may have pushed away...from my feeling presurred...I know that I wasn't being pressured my anyone that it was just me...

I don't feel confused anymore, like a ping pong ball in motion...

I saw WH this morning...I said Good Morning. He told me he was taking him bike to the shop b/c he has no taillights...I said ok. I didn't say bye...but he did, so I said it too.

Not angry...protecting myself from being sucked in by his charm...just think it's easier not to talk to him unless I have too...

well, i've got to get some number together and the paperwork so when I get the check I can go ahead with bring everything over to the lawyer. I'll be around...

I appreciate all of you listening and posting...you all mean the world to me! Thank YOU!

These are STANDARD BS QUESTIONS that can't be answered, I think. I think you would win the PRIZE if you can answer these questions. I think that there are a ZILLION reasons and I think you would have to be a WAYWARD to know the answers. But WAYWARDS don't have well-functioning BRAINS...to be able to fully explain.....

The way I handled it was to make a clear distinction between my H and my WH. As long as he was seeing the OW, not committed to the marriage (by evidencing NC LETTER, etc.), he was a WAYWARD and MY REAL HUSBAND WAS GONE!!!

For me, this was true. MY REAL HUSBAND only FULLY returned AFTER WITHDRAWAL and about ONE FULL YEAR OF NO CONTACT!!! It took a LONG, LONG TIME for the FOG to be FULLY LIFTED.

I would encourage you and others to believe that THE FOG IS REAL!!!

Although the WH may be looking like your H and acting like your H, HE IS NOT REALLY YOUR H....

Rin,

""It's funny. you did wrong and nothing of this magnitude was done but look out if someone does wrong to you it just keeps going and going. You keep looking for things to make you unhappy, you will never be happy...me""

Please write WH a note...not for him, but for you.

"I owned my damages and stopped doing them. You owned yours and continue doing them. That is the difference. You are intentionally and with malice in contact with your affair partner.

I think you gave me wisdom from your experience...you looked for things to be unhappy about with me and chose someone else to cure you. I now know I make myself happy. I know when someone is stabbing me and when I am stabbing myself. And I know when someone is stabbing our marriage. Thank you for your note."

Did you hear the six-year-old boy in his note?

Anyway...Lemonman had a great quote in his sigline...about people who get it and people who don't...and people (WS's) who don't get that they don't get it.

LA

Hi, mimi, thank you I hear you...thank you for standing by my side...

LA- I heard it...thanks for the reply to WH's note...i like it...

Just an update...I called the laywer and am waiting on him to call me back...I said I want this over as quickly as possible...

I also called a friend and my stepmom...my friend plainly said that WH doesn't respect me...my stepmom said that she was sorry to hear it but completely understood...

MY F also said that she got her D in 8 working day; that she just needed two witnesses that could testify that he had committed Adultry. Of course, there were no kids and probably little community property.

I'm also printing just my post to show the emotions I've gone through...

I'm really at a lose for words on how much you all mean to me...the support is heart felt...

Hey, Rin.

Just checking in and thinking about you!

Have a question -- just a question, not a bash:

"I said I want this over as quickly as possible...
MY F said that she got her D in 8 working days ..."

Why are you in such a hurry? Is it to get him out of the house faster? Make sure you don't talk yourself out of it? or ...... ?


Loved LA's response to his note.

Thinking about you and in your corner!

-AmI.