This morning I had a private number call my cell so I answered and it was my WW. I was almost ready to hang up the phone as I am in a VERY DARK plan B when she asked if she could see the kids for a couple of hours on Sunday (it is Thanksgiving in Canada this weekend). I just said yes and she talked some more and I just listend and said NOTHING. She said thanks and sounded very humble. Finally I just said bye and hung up the phone as I was upset that I broke my Plan B.

Well just now I received an email from her to my private email ( I know I probably shouldn't have even read it) that may be showing signs of my old wife again.

I don't know what to do. I want to try but I need to feel safe.


Hi BS
I’m sorry about the call today, I don’t know how to talk to you anymore. A few weeks back I sent you an email asking if you were willing to talk. You didn’t respond. If it is not too late for you, I would like for us to try to work out some stuff out, starting from the beginning.

You said the kids could come with me to my mom’s house on Sunday afternoon (thank you for that), maybe we could arrange for you to pick them up at my house and we could order a pizza and have dinner with the kids and just try to get along.

If you disagree, I understand, but let me know.

WW

I'm really confused about what to do now. Part of me wants to try but the other part doesn't want to expose myself to anymore hurt from her.

Not sure what to do...

It's difficult to say from this e-mail whether she is interested in working on your marriage problems or just hashing out issues of visitation and such.

There's no mention of stopping the affair, is there?

Shouldn't that be one of the conditions for contact with her?

In a previous email to me she said she doesn't see or speak to the people I think she does, refering to OM.

Visitation is not an issue since that is clearly defined in our LSA.

Yes, it is one of my conditions however I don't know how to transition from Plan B to possible recovery. I will certainly need some assurances from her assuming recovery is her goal here. I will NOT just be friends with her.

"Dear WW

I am not interesting in anything less that a recommitment to our marriage from you. I do not want you as a friend, nor an acquaintance.

I am willing to work on our marriage as hard as I am able if you come home, no strings attached, behave transparently, remain in total verifiable NC and treat me and the kids respectfully.

If you do not want that I want no part of you in my life other than as co-parent. It would hurt me toomuch.

But you must do what you think is best.

HTW"

HopeThisWorks,

Agree with Hiker!!! Not one statement of substance in the entire email.

You believe easily what you hope for ernestly.

Remain dark, very dark!

Hey HTW,

Your plan B is having an effect IMO. You just answered your own question about further contact.....

"I'd love to have Pizza and talk and hang out w/ you and the kids but you know we can't do that as friends. I have many friends and cannot think of you that way. You are my wife, partner, lover. That is how I think of you. We cannot be these things to one another nor can we discuss building a new and better marriage as long as a third person is involved in our marriage. Should you truly desire to talk then I need assurance that there are only two of us involved in this marriage. I need the NC letter I discussed with you sent to the OM and I need us to committ to marriage counseling to help us deal with our issues without either of us knowing where it may lead. All of this would take a tremendous amount of faith and persistence through "choice", not feelings. Thanks for the nice thought."

something like that....

bOb Pure's sample letter says it all.

Your WS's e-mail sounds like a peace offering to be friends. Either she wants to be assured that you still care or she needs your friendship because it implies that you have forgiven her for what she has done, assuaging any guilt she may have.

My situation and timeline is similiar to HTW's ... The exception is that my WW is still trying to hide the OM from our children (After about 13 months of cheating). After reading the letter, I would say that staying DARK is the order of the day.

I think that BS's too easily want to give the WS the benefit of the doubt. Bottom line, you two have known each other for 15 years. She knows what she has to do. ACTIONS speak louder than words, verbal or written.

If she wanted her family back she would show up on your front door and fight for it. E-mail ... hah

Protect yourself. Stay Dark. If she really wanted to come home, she would show up at your door and explain herself. She is testing the waters and wants to see what a relationship would be with you for a possible divorce.

I have been in Plan B for about 1 month ... each time my WW has contacted me, it has been about our children. I simply ignored them. Hard to do, but necessary. WW's understand and respect nothing else but hard consequences.

Hope...thread carefully...

I agree with Bob P. wholeheartedly. Simple statements such as I can not be just your friend and that she needs to be committed to working on your relationship.

If she agrees to "working on it"....the hard part will begin...unlike MWIL you will travel the same rocky, twisty, resentment (for your pain) filled path that I did. She needs to repent and you need to heal...and vice versa....

You two have done EVERYTHING that my FWW did EXCEPT get divorced....reread my story buddy....I don;t have any regrets....

Hope....it is how the Harley's say...she's feeling the pain of her actions. I agree with SMOMW and Bob P. on this one.

For me, there were different circumstances. IMO, MB principals are just that.....they are not a "narrow line" that needs to be followed......it is a narrow "path"...which I take as meaning there are many ways within that path to get to the end, but the path is the general principals that are MB's.

Weigh the pro's and con's here......if you take her up on her offer....will that bother "you", if it turns out she just wanted to hang out??? Have you forgiven her???? Not "she doesn't deserve you".....that's not the point...you call the shots now. Could it lead to something new??? Maybe, maybe not. Is it what you would want?? Is there still too much pain????

If you stay completely dark.....will she give up on you??? Will she get angry again?? Will it make her long for you even more??? Will you give up on her??

These are questions that you must dig very deep inside yourself.....because what I have to say, or SMOMW, or Bob P or Mortarman, or anyone else for that matter...it is only you that knows the pain that it would be to interact with her.

She could very well mean that she wants to "start over" and you "could" rebuild things by going to her now...it is possible...or not. It may be more probable to uphold the boundaries you set forth in your Plan B letter. Or maybe it could be either way or neither way. You know best.

But IMO, as stated at first....I agree with SMOMW and Bob.

God bless, and good luck! And no matter what, stay focused on YOURSELF AND KIDS......
MWIL

Personally, I think it would be worth sending a simple email response...

You're asking if "If it is not too late for you, I would like for us to try to work out some stuff out, starting from the beginning."

What, exactly, do you mean by that.

See my previous letter to you. If you're asking if we can 'work out our marriage", the have you met what I've stated to you as what must be done before we can consider reconcilitation?

If you mean something other than working on our relationship, I am not willing to consider this. You've read my letter to you, and I know that I told you clearly where I stand. That hasn't changed. I still love you...but in order to protect myself and my children, I'm not willing to accept anything less than what I spelled out there.




And that's all there is too it. If she comes back with anything other than working on marriage and willing/meeting plan B requirements, then silence is your answer.

I replied to her email in something similar to what bob suggested and now go back to a dark Plan B.

It will be all or nothing and I don't want anything less. Actually, standing up for what I believe in is very empowering even though it may not ultimately recover my marriage.

Thanks everyone!

Just saw your update...
I saw that you already responded to her. I hope it was short and to the point. Like..."Are you still in contact w/ OM?"

Anyway when she does finally agree to NC and writes a NC letter..your first meeting should be alone w/o kids. Set the guidelines up front. She agrees or back to plan B. (My mistake got the NC letter but not much after that.) You have the upper hand...KEEP IT!

I'm not surprised she misses you. But I bet she is. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi Hope,

I agree with how you responded. You need to be very careful here. I too always want to believe what I am hoping for and am hopelessly optimistic.

I believe it is difficult for WS's to try again. Sometimes they are burdened with shame and feel there is too much water under the bridge. That is why you have to tread lightly here. If they gingerly think it could work and we slam the door in their face, they may think - I was right, what's the use in trying - things will never be the same again.

However, I'm a little suspicious here. Why now? I personally feel it is too early for her to experience the full Plan B pain effect. First she wanted you to go to counseling so you could understand why she had her affair, now she wants to hang out and have pizza? What the heck?! She ignored you all these months you were living together when she had every opportunity to talk to you.

I'm thinking she is trying to establish a "co parenting, let's be friends" deal. AFter all, isn't that the wayward fantasy? The kids will adjust and we'll all live happily everafter.

Like I said, tread carefully, you don't want to extinguish all hope in her but you don't want a friendship either.

Good luck.

I just read this HTW - I totally agree with what Bob Pure said - awesome you replied in that manner. This is great. Well Done. Just remember words from WW mean nothing. Lets see what she DOES

Unfortunately you may be right Shattered. I was thinking about that before I responded to her and tried to imagine that scenario. HTW don't play that!

I'm not shutting the door on her either, instead I have simply restated my boundaries to her. The door is wide open for her...she only needs to meet my conditions. Commitment to us and M, NC with OM and complete trasparency. It is that simple and we can work from there.

Without ALL of these she will have no contact or friendship with me. If she meets all of them...I will give her ALL I've got.

Today was a setback for me and I don't want this to happen again unless she is ready to meet my conditions.

Thanks for everyone's input.

Be careful Hope, she knows what she is doing. I think she is looking for the friendship relationship where she can have the best of both worlds. She will tell you when her relationship is over and then if she wants to talk. She has worked you for a long time, all on her terms. Now, stay in the driver's seat and don't let her impose her rules on you. You are doing great.

TooSoon

Hope,

I believe what you have heard here is right on the money. As always, I have a "but" though...

I dont know if you gave your wife a Plan B Letter. But that is what needs to be resent everytime she tries to bridge the gap.

I will use a war analogy for a second. You two are "enemies" right now. You can accept nothing but total surrender by your wife. So, she starts raising her head up, wanting to talk. Now, it could all be a ploy...a trap...into the "friends zone." Or it could be her trying to surrender, but on her own terms.

Both are unacceptable. The first one because she would be no closer to doing the right thing than before. And thus, you should remain dark.

The second, though...if it is indeed happening...while unacceptable, would be a first step toward surrender. She might be sticking her head up to see if it will hurt, if you will "destroy" her. She might be feeling you out.

If that is the case, to just ignore her and keep pointing your guns at her in silence will just mean she will not make the move.

So, what to do? Because everyone is right...there is no way to know by what that email said for which way she wants to go. So, that is what the PBL was/is for. It is a surrender document...her path back. Once the first one is sent...then anytime she tries something like this, you send it again. I agree with Bob and company to a point. I like their responses. But by responding, by writing out a thoughtful response...she may feel that she can continue to pull you out in the open. And thus delay the surrender.

Instead, by just emailing, mailing, etc another copy of the PBL, she sees that the boundaries are rock solid. The conditions are set. Do this...or nothing will proceed.

Just my 2 cents. But I think if you do that, you will have less interactions like this...AND will still know that she has a path back if she chooses.

MM, good to see you back on MB and providing helpful advice to those in need.

I did send a Plan B letter to which I refered her to in my email response on Friday.

In my Plan B letter I said I would be willing to discuss rebuilding our friendship and marriage when she commits to US and agrees to NC with OM. I'm not asking for alot and I will stick to those requirements as I NEVER want to feel as vulnerable as I did several months ago.

I like the idea of resending my PBL whenever she attempts to contact me as I have given her a path back. It is up to her now whether she wants to follow it or not.

It's funny since I woke up Friday morning and asked myself if I even wanted her back in my life as I have done very well to build a new life of my own and feel somewhat at peace now. Then I received her phone call and email on Friday which brought back many feelings for her and subsequently has taken me a step back.

There is something in me that wants to talk to her and be friends but I know that may not be the most helpful method of recovering my marriage.

I know she has said in the past that I will always hold her A over her and she probably cringes everytime I ask for NC with OM. Remember her response to my email was that it was "hurtful" and I felt I said things in a loving way while clearly stating my boundaries. So she is still in the fog as it is still about her.

I'm not familiar with the dynamics of how the WS accepts the PLB conditions and attempts recovery. Do they reluctantly come back or is there a fundamental change in their attitude that is visibly seen by the BS.

Thanks for the advice!
HTW

Hope,

Wasn't today the day she asked to take the kids, which in turn initiated the "let's have pizza and talk"?

Has she responded to your email at all? I wouldn't be surprised if the pizza was her counselor's idea. It appears that she wants to try and establish communication with you and I could see a clueless counselor saying, start slow, invite him to stay for pizza with the kids . . .

The million dollar question is: WHY does she want to communicate? What is her end goal? That remains to be seen.

Hello MM,
Glad to see you back. How are you? I agree with you 100%.