Posted on JFO, but it was recommeded that I repost here...

Hi,

I just found out a week ago that my WW was having A for the past three months. She didn't tell me; I figured it out.

Normally, I'm the emotional rock, but I'm all over the place from minute to minute. I feel like 15 years of marriage and 2 kids down the drain.

She's not immedieately willing to NC with the OM. That's kind of a dealbreaker for me.

I don't have the book with PlanA/PlanB, but I guess I need it asap - I get the gist from this website. I want so bad to save things, but she seems pretty far gone in the addiction. My reaction right now is to jump to PlanB if OM isn't let go. Then the next minute I'm practically grovelling and willing to do PlanA stuff so there can be no excuses if we face the worst.

I've been reading this website and these forums. They've been so helpful and so insightful. If WW and I had read this five years ago, you'd never know me! I feel like we were following some program. The things we each did, the things we have said are all here, like someone had a hidden camera and wrote it all down!!! It seems so predictable in hindsight.

She hasn't agreed to NC, but she has agreed to the weekend seminar. I'm going to try so hard between now and then to be nice and pray that we have hope coming out of that. I know it's a small basket to put my eggs in, but it's the only one I have! I was shocked to hear that she was willing to go; in fact she beat me to the punch after I showed her this website and suggested it first (I was just going to sign us up and see what happened). That gave me a ray of hope on Monday morning.

That's two weeks away. I want to inist on NC between now an then, but can't enforce it. I confronted OM and respectfully appealed to him, but WW has been calling him. I know that she doesn't fully see what a dead end this A is and how it's jeopardizing our family.

This PartA stuff seems really, really hard and I don't know if I have it in me. Right now there's a huge part of me that wants to jump to PartB and say, "Call me when you're ready to start working on US, or call me when you're ready with the paperwork to end it all." But I guess that's not trying.

Anyway, I'm just spewing random thoughts. This is one of the most constructive discussion forums I've ever seen on the Internet; I've learned a lot and I hope that I'll be able to tell you some happy stories someday; I'm really on the rollercoaster right now.

I can't say I'm happy to be here, but you folks seem like a good bunch of people...

Hi Charlie,

U ready for your t/d list? I am sorry u have t/b here but here goes:

1. Plan A & B: Learn about them 1st, do a good plan A, get your mind and heart in sync, then when u r done with your plan A improvements and she is still a WS, move to plan B. You w/b ready by then.

2. Read Surviving an Affair, His needs/Her needs (both by Harley) and if she is giving you a real bad time, read Love must be Tough (Dobson).

3. Read the concepts section above and take the EN questionnaire once as you and 2nd as her (if she won't).

4. Call Jennifer C @ MB for some phone counseling or get an MC familar w/MB principals.

5. Secure your finances (WS' like to spend your $ on their A).

6. Create your personal support group and include your children. Be a part of their's. Let the WS know you and the children are a single package deal. WS' like to separate children from parents and then treat both like trash.

7. Plan A your W and plan B the WS ASAP. Learn both plans 1st though. Learn to tell when she is babbling vs telling the truth.

8. Realize you can't control her but you can control her affects on you.

9. Go to the doctor and get tested for STDs and ask for ADs if needed.

10. Vent here as needed.

That's a start.

take care,
L.

Orchid has all the right answers and steps. I just wanted to remind you that a groveling, pleading, begging, whining spouse is very unattractive to a wayward spouse. The harder you try and hold on, the harder they try to escape. You need to make your wife want to come back because it is an attractive choice.

thanks orchid... I'm heading to the bookstore...

Charlie

Can't add much to what orchid told you. She told me the same 2 and a bit years ago and it worked for me brilliantly. We're now happier than I dreamed possible when I was where you are.

In case it helps make a pot of coffee and read MY TOOLKIT to see the wonderful advice i got, and the results of it.

You are not alone mate.

All blessings.

No contact is absolutely essential for any hope in recovery. In addition, if the OM is married it is very important to expose this to his wife. If intimacy is to be resumed then the both of you need to be tested for STD's. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. Marriage couseling is a must. I wish you luck.

If she refuses counseling and no contact then contact an attorney to at least understand the various legal options availiable to you.

Bryanp makes several good points to add to the plan. It is critical to know your path so when she diverts, you know your course of action.

You will be kept busy working on you and that will irriate the WS. That is a true WS sign. Remember no matter what you do, she will be irriated. So best do what you s/b doing for you and your family.

Don't do any work for a WS, do things for you and your family. That does include stuff for your W which may be hard to do at times.

Learn to see the difference and move forward. Remember you love your W and not the WS.

L.

ChalieEcho,

Perhaps the hardest part of this terrible journey you find yourself on is the acceptance that while you have the valid perception of the past with your WW, you must also face the fact that this same person can be the most savage, almost inhuman threat to the safety of you and your children,

Heed the warnings regarding protecting your family legally from this Jekyl/Hyde character that you have just recently glimpsed.

Best of luck

thanks thanks thanks to all!!!

Yes.. the OM is married. I sent a very respectful email to her. May have been seen by kids (not good, but I'd never share my email account with the kids - his consequences not mine). I'm not sure she knows the whole story, and almost called her tonight. Part of me doesn't care too much about what she knows or doesn't know.

So far I've been a model. I have the moral high ground and refuse to relenquish it. If this wasn't my life on the line, it would be absolutely fascinating to watch WW behaving in such a text book manner. Just got Harley's Surviving an Affiar' and it could have been written about us.

So predictible leading up to it, and we're both playing such predictable roles... if I weren't in such pain it would be a fascinating process to watch!

Here's a twist: I'm the nicest guy on the planet. I've spent all summer makeing improvement and really trying (part of Part A -- I'm still reading the book). I'm so tempted to pack a bag and leave since I feel I've been doing that for so long. Still, if anything, I'm not a quitter and I don't think I really could do it, so I'll suck it up and do PlanA. It just seems so, so hard.

She's not willing to relinquish NC. We're in a very 'solemate' situation here according to Harley's spectrum. It's a dealbreaker as far as I'm concerned. Well, I've got a recommendation on a good lawyer and opened new bank accounts today. I didn't want to; I'm the eternal optimist, but I'm hearing that kind of advice from too many sides!

My wife wrote a long, rambling, and very detailed synopsis of her side to an Internet group she participates in. The rationalization, selective memory, and exaggeration contained therein is textbook. It was painful for me to read. I can't belive she put that on the Internet with her name attached to it; you can't take it back!!!

Thank you all for the support and information here. Monday's a holiday for me, but the kids are in school. Maybe we'll see a mediator instead of our respective therapists! I'll keep adding.

Tell me about it (and I'm only a week into this mess). It sounds like hipocracy in the hightest degree, but I have to keep telling myself she's sick...

Plan A is extremely hard and takes a lot of courage and faith. You can do it. Yes your wife is "sick" and she needs you even though she says otherwise. Don't listen to what she says. Remember what you know is real. You story is played out in SAA because all affairs are alike. There is nothing unique about your situation or your WW's. The good news is that means you might survive this and have a successful marriage.

Now NC is first and foremost. Expose the A every which way you can. Insist on NC but don't be surprised if she breaks it. Most do. The A will die if you expose it. An affair is like that fungus that grows on rotting trees - it can't survive in the light of day.

You need to be the strength for both of you. You can expect that for a while your WW will have no interest in helping you recover the marriage. It is all on your shoulders. Many people have done it so take courage in that. Go read bob pure's original thread.

The pain is new and fresh and you can expect it to hurt badly for a while. That will diminish in time. Look within yourself and take courage where you can. You are the only one who can save your family right now. Be strong.

Charlie,

Having said the above, I want to also remind you that this is indeed a verrrrrrrryyyyy long process whether your M is saved or not. From your logon name, I assume you are or were military. Rely on that discipline for the perseverance necessary to protect the one relationship that no court can remove or alter, you are the father of your children. If they are paramount in your heart, you can never make any poor choices.

As per your comment on your WW's "sickness", I am of the belief that trivializes the true character of the majority of WS's......lack of self respect and the overwhelming feeling of self entitlement.

My prayers go with you.

Charlie,
I'm sorry that your circumstances find you here.... it sounds like you have been doing a version of Plan A for quite a while... but probably not as well as you could have been doing it. It sounds like you've been doing most of the carrot stuff... but have been indicating a lack of perseverence and patience.

JOB NUMBER ONE for you Charlie needs to be to bust up the affair. Your WW will not come around and will not even consider reconciliation until about 3-6 weeks AFTER THE AFFAIR HAS ENDED. The best way to break up the affair is by exposing it to EVERYONE THAT CAN MAKE THE AFFAIR UNCOMFORTABLE>...... essentially exposing it to the light of day. This is the most important step and it must be done without any warning whatsoever. This is not punishment... this is not payback.... this is about shining a bright light on this sleezy affair.... the cockroaches always run when the light gets turned on... and OMs are COCKROACHES. IS OM a co-worker of your WW? If so you will need to expose at work... full scale... this will cause some temporary conflict at home... but don't worry... it's your ONLY CHANCE of saving your marriage.... AS LONG AS your WW stays in her A with OM, your marriage is over/dying.

Good luck with this next step. Before you expose, please answer some of these questions....

Who is the OM? How does your WW know him? Is he a friend? Or a co-worker? How did he finnagle his way into your marriage? Who can you influence him with? Who can you influence your WW with? You'll need to expose to her family and yours (selectively)....

If you are interested, I just exposed my WWs affair at her work (she was having an A with a superior at the company), Mr. BigPants - We call him.

The message that you need to get used to saying goes something like this,
"I love my wife and this affair has become an unhealthy addiction for my her... I will do whatever I can to save this marriage and keep our family intact. I am contacting you so that you will know where I stand in all of this... but also because I believe we may need help from friends and colleagues."

The advice you get here is the best you will receive. Don't listen to friends or family advice... they don't usually understand the steps described here... saving a marriage is not for the meek or faint of heart, it requires determination, courage, and above all PATIENCE. You aren't alone... DON'T DO ANYTHING WITHOUT GETTING INPUT HERE FIRST... exposure... ultimatums, etc... The advisors here can make most of your strategies for saving your marriage more effective...
We're here,
Good luck.

Heartsore22

Now I know that WW's A is a full blown thing, going on for three months. We had a good couple of days and I felt like we were making progress. I overheard a phonecall today that I should have stayed out of. I flipped out when I saw her. I was going out to the garage to get something and she was coming in and I just flipped out. I beat the crap out of a trashcan with a baseball bat, screaming at her while she was cowering in the corner. Not a great deposit in my Love Account....

Felt much better after xanax, beer, and my one friend who I can talk to. Got the kids to bed and we talked and got drunk (she never drinks) and had the most bizarre, cordial, and frank conversation I've ever had in 15 years with her. Stuff that I can't go into, but it was a relationship-building thing.

She went to bed around 11:30 and around Midnight I decided I needed to call OM. He hung up on me. I left a few nice messages, and said we gotta talk. He called back about an hour later and I had a pretty much on-sided conversation where I told him how much I love my wife and value the sanctity of my family and how he's not in that picture and how he has to go. I told him that they're both delusional and the relationship has nowhere to go but to ruin the 9 lives involved. And I was really nice and eloquent and pleasant about it: On no uncertian terms can he be part of my destination which is an intact, loving family. What kind of F'ing Kafka movie am I living in!

Prior to the freaking out, I was ready to pack a bag and leave. Thank goodness that WS was locked in the bathroom hiding from me so I couldn't get my razor and toothbrush!!!

Tomorrow I'm asking my therapist to pay the co-pay 'cause you can't write stuff like this!!!

You need to reign in some of that emotion. You might find yourself faced with a restraining order. Violence is not helping your situation.

What web site is she posting to CharlieEcho? is it The Other Woman site? Gloryb?

Best thing you can do is Plan A at this point. See the links below.

xanax, beer

Cipramil and wine led to me deliberately driving my car into a tree at speed, Charlie.

Best lay off the brewski until life assumes some order. A word to the wise from my own experience.

tell me about it... that's the first time in my *life* I ever did anything like that... OMG I'm glad I'm seeing the therapist tomorrow; I need something to take the edge off.

Just a bizarre night after that having some nutty conversations with these people who are tearing my life apart. What's next? Maybe I'll make dinner for all of us next weekend!

PS:

Good Henry R. helps me a lot these days:

Where are your two children when all this chaos is going on? Can they hear the trash can being abused? Do they see the aftermath? Where are they when you are pounding on the bathroom door?

Think about the emotional toll this will take on your children even in the best of circumstances. They certainly don't need to see any violence.

Another thing to consider, if you ever have to go to court over custody of your children, I can assure you that your wife's attorney will remind the judge of your outbursts.

When you say "take the edge off", are you suggesting that you want even more drugs?

That OW site had the nerve to email me wanting to join my sexless marriage group so they could tell us what our spouses wanted. They wanted to do us a favor. Duh!

How did you find her post CE?

I did some really bad LBing at the beginning ANGRY - AND I wasn't here to get some guidance, so you are one step up on me, you are here now, and the guys who are guiding you are some of the best.

Linda