Hi!

I'm an "Old-Timer" here and I don't post all that much anymore........but I do read.
After reading someone's post, a question came into my mind.

SH says that there is "NEVER" supposed to be any contact ever again, between WS and OP because it's an addiction and they'd feel "drawn together" again...........

It's been almost 6 years for us since d-d and I'd say that we have reached what I would call "Recovered". Our marriage
is fullfilling and we communicate better than ever before.

We've talked about the affair and everything concerning the whole situation and my xWS cannot believe that he did the things he did.
He explained that he doesn't like the characteristics of xOW and that he sees the whole situation very differently now.

My husband has "grown" so much through this situation and he has really learned to think deeper and to question what people say. He feels like a complete fool when he thinks back to the time of his affair and that he "never" questioned anything that xOW said.


This is what gets me thinking.............if my xWS and xOW ever did meet one another again and with the knowledge that my xWS has now..............would the affair really start all over again???

Would the "old" feelings really come up, with the knowledge he now has???

If this is really true.............how can a person ever again feel safe??? It makes me sick to even think about it........

It's as if we have to "lock up" xOW woman because she will always be a "danger" for our relationship.........

I'd like to hear some other opinions please..........

bb

Hi Blondblossom,

Let's not forget A's are not about rational, logic behavior or about being a loving, caring person.
They are about looking for a selfish quick fix to fill one's needs, and the OP is used for that.
I guess the XOP is an easy entrance to old behavior.
After all, they "agreed to be used" very willingly in the past.
It's simple self protection to stay away from her.

I don't think any chance meeting would automatically start the A again, especially not if the FWS made drastic changes in his/her understanding and behavior.
But it would be a temptation.

Some people who quit smoking make the quantum leap back to the state prior to the smoking - the state where they cannot imagine ever wanting to smoke.
Other people who quit smoking will always have a tendancy to wonder how it would be like..
and might be tempted again.
Even "knowing very well" how harmful smoking is !

Blondblossom, IMO the real danger of contact between the FWS and xOP is feelings that might get “rekindled” again – especially if the A had not died a “natural” death e.g. if there was still many love units in the love banks when the A has stopped and if no withdrawals from love banks have been made since then. However, if the FWS and xOP see each other again and “old” feelings come up, it doesn’t necessarily mean that the A will start all over again. Why not? Because the FWS have the choice to not act on his/her feelings and get involved in another A again. In other words, the FWS might not be able to control the sudden rush of “old” feelings which might flame up when he/she see the xOP again, BUT he/she still have control over his/her actions...especially (as brownhair has said) if the FWS has made drastic changes in his/her understanding and behavior.

Not necessarily but it is a possibility – depending on certain factors like I’ve outlined above. You have to understand that “knowledge” can’t necessarily dictates or control how a person might “feel” or are suppose to feel. Many times feelings are irrational and illogical while the opposite is true with knowledge. Feelings just are but as I’ve said previously, a person can control his/her reaction on those feelings and choose to not act on it. He/she can experience temptation, but choose to not give in to it.

As you probably know, I had an one day resumption of my EA a few months ago. OM contacted me through e-mail and my feelings were rekindled by this. I experienced a sudden intense rush of feelings and I acted on those feelings (my wrong choice) by sending e-mails back to him. I couldn’t control my feelings, BUT I could have and should have made the choice to NOT react on those feelings.

LowOrbit once posted the following:

I could 100% relate to what Low has said above since my EA never died a natural death and since no big withdrawals has been made from my “love bank” since the friendship and EA has ended. However, I don’t sit around and “pine” after OM. Before the massive e-mail exchanges a few months ago, I eventually succeeded in detaching from my feelings and assign it to "the past", but the e-mail contact of recently had opened up everything again, had put me back in some sort of withdrawal and it had took me a while before I have go through the detaching-process again.

I’m still working at the same company than OM and bump into him once in a while and although this had some effect on me during the years and still do (since I never seem to reach the state of total indifference towards him), it’s not to such a degree that I experience a sudden rush of feelings or have a desire to be friends or get involved in an EA with him again when it happens. No, my weakness/vulnerability in this regards is when there are deliberate contact from him – especially e-mail – like recently with the e-mail exchanges. I think this is the case because our friendship and eventually EA started and was maintained on e-mail. I’m also convinced the inappropriate behavior and EA would have not happened if there wasn’t any e-mail exchanges between us from the beginning. I felt “save” behind the computer screen and lowered my boundaries because of this. Biggest mistake and most terrible choice I have ever made…

That's pretty much exactly what Harley says in HNHN as it happens. I firmly believe this to be true. It is why NC is for life and is essential because FWS is ALWAYS susceptible to a rekindling of feelings as much as that sucks for the BS.


And you NEVER will reach indifference Suzet whilever you persist in working with him and insist on not destroying the illusion by telling OM'sW. And please don't lecture me on your reasons or assume I don't just understand because I really do - I just totally disagree with your lack of compassion and action.

BB,

It's a matter of the trust factor. Not you trusting him but your H trusting himself. His love for you w/b his protection so that no matter what OW came his way, his eyes would not be fogged over and his mind would not be separated from his heart so that he babbles, drools and becomes lost in that horrible fog.

Like a bad nightmare, should any encounter with an OW be. The POV changes from one of a fantasy to a horrible memory.

The events that scared the wits out of you will now be what he recalls. Not the fantasy of the A.

It is still in his court. He needs to woo and convince you that you are the most important woman in his life. His love for you will go to no other. His love for his family will not stray.

Would it start all over again? It could, but why should it. Look at what he stands to lose and much quicker this time.

A wise man would not and a foolish man should not but if he should, he s/b banished.

JMHO,
L.

In our situation, we were able to talk to OWH after he had thrown OW out of the house and decided to get divorced.

My husband became aware that xOW was looking for someone that could finacially support her, so that she could continue living a pleasent life.
OWH told us many things about OW. She drank alot and was very aggressive. She spent money faster that it came in and was known to be a great "talker".

Many things that OWh told us were shocking..............and I was/am pretty sure that the illusion that my husband had of xOW died...........

We found out that it wasn't xOW first affair and that she was probably having another affair during the affair with my husband.
xOW cleared all bank accounts of OWH. (she stole all $$$)
xOW attacked OWH with a knife and the police/ambulance came.
xOW was never a Chef secretary and she couldn't find a job.

All these things that we were told were so shocking for my husband because xOW had told him the complete opposite.
She lied to him in every possible way and he believed it.
He believed it and he loved the feelings, even though it was not the truth................(this doesn't make him innoscent)

This is still confusing for me. I'm just trying to figure out, if he'd still have "romantic" feelings even though he now knows that she said and did everything possible just to get him, so that she could have the life she wanted......

Would he really have "romantic" feelings for her, now knowing that he wasn't her "#1" affair as she told him and that he more than likely wasn't the "only one" during this time of his life?

I couldn't imagine myself in this situation and I couldn't imagine having any fond feelings at all, if I try to put myself in these shoes. I'd feel "turned off & rediculous"............but maybe I'd have to really be in this situation in order to "know" what I really would feel.............

bb

Orchid,
we posted at the same time. Your post really made sence!!!!!

Would it start all over again? It could, but why should it.

I think I needed to hear these words!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Thank you!!!!

bb

It doesn't mean that the A would start back up again, it's just that the WS is more apt to fall back into that behavior than a person who's never done something like that before. Someone mentioned smokers and stuff, well, how about alcoholics? Why do you think that they NEVER have another drink? It's just easier to fall back into that behavior if you've already been there. Now, if your H just ran into xOW, then I don't think it would re-kindle anything, but if they became friends again, that's opening the door to the A beginning all over again. I'm also of the mind that those of the oposite sex and are M'd should never become friends. Why? Because it opens those doors for the LB accounts to be opened, first in friendship, then past the point of no return! Since our D-days in July 2000, I have made a very strong effort to NOT become "friends" with any man. I have created a wall, so to speak, that only my H is allow inside. Think about it, what do you do with your friends? You talk about your life, the good, bad and ugly of it. Doing so with someone of the oposite sex is giving them insight into something they don't need to see. Heck, if you are having issues, no matter how big or small, in your M, you shouldn't even go to someone of the same sex and complain, let alone the oposite sex. You need to deal with your M issues with your spouse. That's how our A's basically began, with discussing our issues with other people instead of each other.

So, do I think that the A would really start all over again, I would hope that the WS had learned enough from the first time, but it's always a chance, since they had been intimate, whether physically or just emotionally, before, and it could very easily happen again.

BB, as a recovering alcoholic I have very strong negative feelings about drinking. Drinking again, to me, would be analogous to a Jewish survivor of the concentration camps asking to be let back in. That is how I view drinking again while in my rational, sane mind. Drinking was not FUN for me, or I would not have ever stopped.

But I can easily convince myself otherwise, and I am very aware of this ability. I could con myself into believing that it was not so bad after all and maybe I could handle it this time. Maybe it could be fun after all this time!

If I let my defenses down long enough and stupidly expose myself to temptations and opportunities, the inevitable weak moment will collide with opportunity and I will be off and running again. This is why I don't ever abandon my program or place myself in stupid situations.

It is the same with the former wayward spouse. I have known several on this forum who were committed to recovery, yet being exposed to the OP rekindled feelings they thought long dead. Feelings that were repugnant to them yesterday suddenly become entertained and reality is quickly altered, enabling a resumption.

I can so see this happening. When the OW was my husband's high school/college girlfriendl she broke up with him, broke his heart, yada,yada.

26 years later she contacted him. In no time they were in an affair.

We had been married for 22 years and had what we both considered a good, committed marriage.

This is exactly the reason Harley recommends not even going to your high school reunion if a former lover could be there.

No Contact is No Contact for life. Recovery does not change that.

To me, it isn't worth the risk. I believe Dr. Harley in this and never want my H to see an OW again. Since one lives in the neighboring town....I dread him ever bumping into her. I believe that it wouldn't take much to rekindle....even with all the recovery we've gone through...mine is similar to yours. We are doing great. But, I will never trust him 100% again...nor should I. No contact for life....no exceptions.
Strong boundaries maintained as far as any oposite sex friendships...none to exist without me. He is fully onboard in protecting his boundaries.

WS has learned so much. No way he/she would ever want to do THAT again...EVER. Things are so good! All is well with the world and life is grand.

Then one day...

Work is going to he77 in a handbasket. Company is on the verge of going under any day. He/she wants to talk about it, but a family member calls and needs your help. He/she sends you right over, with his/her blessings (and means it, too)

The kids are involved in a new activity that takes a lot of time. The furnace shoots [email]cr@ps.[/email] The car needs brakes. You haven't been feeling well for a couple of weeks and the last time you had SF was 3 weeks ago.

You leave on a weekend trip to visit an old high school friend (planned it 6 months ago and S wanted you to go).

The gang at work is discussing the latest news on how long before the pink slips. They all want to continue conversation over a beer at the local watering hole and invite S to join them. You'll be out of town, so what can it hurt?

3 beers gone, two hours killed and a 4th beer with a shot on the side is delivered to the table.

Then out of the clear blue sky comes the voice of OP, "Hi there. I've been thinking a lot about you lately. How are things going?"

Better hope S will run for the exit at a sprint, but do you know for certain that is what will happen?

Where we stand depends on where we sit...

When all is right with the world, nothing bad can happen, but what about when things are not going so well? Trust me, the above or something similar will happen. Do you want OP to be there for FWS to see if they can pass the test?

Isn't it better to avoid the test, since passing proves nothing and failing starts the pain all over again. Why take the chance?

Just my dime's worth, since 2 cents doesn't go as far as it once did.

You would have thought I would have thought that wouldn't you, but it all went out the window after 3 years of NC when I met the OM again.

NC is for life and that's all there is to it.

I think Melody described and explained it best with her post. Her example of a recovering alcoholic was very applicable e.g. how exposure to the OP combined with defenses and “guards” being let down by the FWS can easily lead to a resumption of the A…even though the FWS may have very strong negative feelings about cheating and specifically about the OP while in his/her rational, sane mind and while not in any type of contact with the OP. In fact, I think ALL sincere FWS’s have strong negative feelings about cheating and the OP while in rational, sane mind...and I think the thought of it and past feelings towards the OP are indeed repugnant to them.

To take myself for example: Although I have never reached the state of total indifference towards OM, I do experience very negative feelings (also anxiety) every time I bump in or see him. Seeing him is a reminder of the terrible pain me an my H went through and the wrong, self-destructive choices I’ve made (this is even more so after the resumption of the EA a few months ago), but the “addiction”/weakness/vulnerability is still there underneath the surface in spite of the horrible memory, negative feelings & shame... Just like drinking/alcohol is a horrible memory to the recovering/rehabilitated alcoholic but will always be a weakness/vulnerability to them in spite of that...that's why they can never allow themselves to use alcohol again.

I can see more and more (through reading/learning here and especially through my own experience) how the OP really IS like an addiction and how there is not much difference between addiction to an OP and addiction to substances (like alcohol/drugs or cigarettes)…and that even strong negative feelings about the addiction and the substance of the addiction while in rational, sane mind can NOT guarantee that no resumption will take place if temptation and opportunity arises and if the FWS makes the choice to let his/her defenses and “guard” down and expose him/herself further in such a situation.

Exactly. This describes exactly what happened to me a few months ago.

Ok everybody...............

it makes complete sence to me what I have read so far and yet something in me is *screaming!!!!*

My husband and I met when we were 14yo(me) and 17yo (xWS). Our relationship was exceptional and when we both look back, it was very extrodinary.

I myself come from a "divorced, problem" family and my husband grew up in what I thought was a *perfect* family. I never avoided conflicts and I always saw the importance to talk about problems before they got out of hand.

My husband choose to "Avoid conflicts" and never saw the importance.

Due to the fact that I wasn't experienced with relationships and I didn't have a family from who I could of learnt what behaviour was right...........I did it my way.
(boy am I prowd of myself)

I stayed on track and when conflicts came up, I had the urge to talk about them.

My husband grew up differnetly and problems were NEVER discussed. They were swept under the carpet and FINI!

This went on for years and as I thought this was normal.

The only time in my life when I "neglected" what I believed in was shortly before my husbands affair and during his affair. I fell apart. I knew that something was NOT right and yet, I was like paralized. I was numb........

We were going through an extreme difficult time of our life. It was STRESS!!!! Every minute of the day was filled with stress and unhappyness. And we didn't talk.

My husband reacted in the only way, he knew. He "avoided conflict" and swept everything under the carpet.......he got involved with OW and believed that this would solve his problems. He didn't question, he didn't discuss.........he just simply took the easy route and "believed" what was presented to him.

The after math came for him. Of course he was just as active in his affair as xOW and yet, he found out that he was played a complete fool by her.

XOw had gathered information about my husband and knew how our financial situation was. She knew that our children were grown up and that my husband was very successfull. She knew our hobbys and she knew what people we were with in our recreational freetime.
She gathered enough information to make their "first" meeting appear as if it was a coincidence.

I think that this is enough to really "freak out" about. XOW truely planned to get my husband and he didn't have a clue.

Someone that had known us for MANY years passed over all this information without even realizing what xOW was up to.

The day came when xOW started up her plan. She met with a group of our friends on a day when I couldn't come with my husband and she knew that I wouldn't be there. As I said, she had this all planned...........

The PA happened 3 days later. XOW was working on this High speed...............(I'm aware that my husband in NOT innoscent)

Anyways..............the affair went on for 3 months and all along, OW was using information that she had gathered. She even knew my husbands "favorite" drinks............
My husband felt that they were Soul mates when he heard the things she said.

Everything seemed to match.

xOW knew that my husband hates cats and what did she tell him???? Well, she herself had 13 cats and she told my husband from the beginning on that she didn't like cats and that they all belonged to OWH.
My husband, of course could relate with this and told her that he too hated cats.

Just these little things added up and made my husband feel as if it was love at first site. Everything seemed to match.

Well after the affair was discovered..........all this infor fell apart. My husband became aware that he had been fooled from the beginning on. (he didn't deserve it differently as far as I'm concerned) but yet, he realized that what had made him feel loved and special was truely something that had been planned.

It never was a coincidence. It never was what he had thought it was, from the beginning on. OW had plans!!!!!!!!!!from the beginning on and her plans had worked until they were caught.

Though many discussions and years of anomynous phone calls, my husband learned many things about xOW. She was in rage that things hadn't worked out how she had planned. Her whole story fell apart within the years and nothing turned out to be the truth.

Throughout the last years, my husband has grown-up. He will never again, avoid a conflict. Even though it irritates me at times, I'm more than thankfull for this great change. He questions and he won't let go until he knows/understands what he needs to.

He's learned to read "between the lines" and he's even learned how woman try to manipulate men if they want to accomplish something. We have our own business and 95% of our customers are women................

If you're a woman you might understand what I am talking about.............."frustrated" women can for sure manipulate a man without him realizing it.........unless they open their eyes and take a step back and truely see what is going on.

My husband has for sure opened his eyes and he has for sure taken MANY steps back to see what really is going on. (this even gets difficult for me at times.........*grin*)

Just the other day a customer of ours came up to my husband to greet him. She wanted to give him a cheek kiss..........??

My husband took a huge step backwards and walked away, leaving the woman standing there alone...........

Sorry that this is getting long and more babble but I have to get this off my chest.

What happens if someone never really was an alcoholic or drug addict............what happens if they just once had a little drinking problem/drug problem once in their life????

Is that really the same???? I myself had a drinking problem after d-d............

I drank like crazy. I never drank in my life and I was known as the water/orange juice drinker and all of a sudden, I was drinking alcohol like crazy just to drift away from the problems I was having................

I'm back to normal again............I still drink the occasional glass of wine without problems (I never was an acoholic)

So couldn't this be the same for my husband???? Isn't there any xWS that truely do NOT get any romantic feelings for xOP because they have "Grown up" within themselves???
Because they are no longer the person they were at that time of their life?

Maybe, I'm living in an illusion but I want to believe that there is something called "True Love" from the bottom of the heart. Something that comes from deep down inside and that is strong enough that it will NOT give in to any temptation.

I hate to think/believe that OW will always be a temptation and always a danger...............because this is NOT my definition of love.

Even though I will never trust my husband as I once did, I have learned to "let go" and I don't have the urge to controll anything. But if I always have to think that if he ever bumps into OW, things could get dangerous........hmmmm.

I'd better stop now because I don't think, I'm getting anywhere, writting this. If he ever does bump into OW, then it's up to him what he does/doesn't do...........I leave it up to him.

bb

I think you are treading into the area of thinking that your situation or your husband (or his A) is unique. Many FWS's see their former lover in a different light or found out that they weren't all they presented themselves to be. As you stated, our spouses also bear responsibility for all of their bad choices.

I just know that I cannot be complacent about our marriage or thinking that a break in NC wouldn't matter now. For the most part I believe that for all we've learned we would choose the right path. We can hope and pray that we all will be strong enough to withstand a test...an opportunity.... being tempted by the evil one.

It sounds like you want to go back to the way it was for you before the A ever happened. I don't think it can or should be that way again.

I had a dream last night where my H wasn't meeting my EN's and I was tempted and succumbed to an EA with a very attractive guy. The EA was quickly moving in the direction of a PA, within my dream I was plotting to get away with it, sneeking away to a back alley...and trying to squelch my guilty conscience....but it felt too darn good...well the cat woke me up so I didn't go all the way in the dream. The dream probably came from something I read here yesterday and showed me just how vulnerable we all could be and the need to keep trying to meet each other's needs and being vigilent with our boundaries.

well..............for me, it is unique.



very true..............and yet, I know this can/will NEVER happen and on the other side, I'm happy for the changes that have came into our life.

My husband no longer believes everything he is told. He's alot more critical. He questions alot. The best ever is that he has learned to talk about his feeling and he has learned to be totally honest with me. He no longer is a "Conflict Avoider"!

I've come to the point that I think that I want to "Let go". If he does ever bump into OW, he has to know what he wants.

I cannot controll him and I don't want to controll him. If he wants to sneak around.............well, he better "sneak good"!
I've told him that it is up to him and he is the one that has to live with that. If he can look in the mirrow and feel good about it, then he doens't deserve any better.

Our relationship has become very comfortable......we are able to have great talks. We are able to share our deepest feelings and as far as I see it, we are able to be totally honest with one another.
I give him what I have to offer and I'm more than sure that this means the world to him as it does for me.

So I guess............if they ever did meet one another, the affair "could" start all over again...............BUT "why" should it??? We are living the best.............

For my share, I can definately say that I have given my best!!!!

Maybe this is the "next" step into Recovery! I've regained my self confidence and I know that I have alot to offer.........

Thanks alot for your input. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

bb