I talked to SH once or twice very early on, after the first set of d-days, but then didn't talk to him again until after d-day 3, when WH had told me he didn't love me, and was going to move out, I found out about things renewing with OW, gave WH a Plan B letter and tried to kick him out, and re-exposed WH, including sending a new round of letters to his work and getting him investigated (still ongoing).


And SH still worked with me from there. That was about 6 months past d-day, and I think two months (?) after he'd said he didn't love me anymore and wanted out.

So, no, I don't think it's EVER too late. Even if it doesn't turn him around, I've learned so much and grown so much and made so many changes for myself, I think I'd consider MB effective just for that.

AmI,
Thank you! That helps me get this all in the right frame of reference for the effectiveness of MB. PS: I am rooting for you and your H!!!! I am praying for you too, for strength to fight.

Now, with regards to my DS3...he just came to my office crying...I asked him what was wrong, why are you having a bad day..."Because I want my daddy" ...later I ask, "are you mad at your daddy". He said yes and I asked why...because he doesn't like me anymore. How do I help him understand that daddy does love him when my WH is not acting like he does? I can say he does over and over, but kids know when actions are speaking louder than words.

Do I let my WH know about this conversation, or does that just make things worse? I just want my baby to know he is loved.

Any other resources any of you have found helpful for this situation? I have 4 kids and I am sure they all feel this way at times.

Don't lie to your son. He knows his dad does not like him because WS' do NOT like their family.

Instead of lying to your son, tell him that he needs to tell his dad what he told you. Do NOT run interferance for the WS.

L.

Orchid,

You are soooo right, it is just so hard to see your kids be put through the ringer at the expense of an idiot! I know we try to protect our kids from hurt, but I know that they already know the truth about the dad at this point...without anyone speaking a word. I guess I will switch to just focusing on their feelings, not speaking for their dad. Just validate their feelings and reinforce how I feel about them.

Last night my DS continued to be very upset...but he is only 3.

But...lucky for me my WH called to "talk" to the kids. So, I laid it out for him how DS3 had been crying, what he had been saying, etc. Right before DS got on the phone he said" I don't want to talk to him" It was loud enough to be heard on my WH end! Dose of reality! They talked for a little bit and then I got back on the line and restated the pain my DS had been in. WH just listened.

Then my DD9 got on the phone and was chatting happily. All of a sudden, she leaves the room and it got really quiet. So, I follow her to the other room where she is in tears. I whisper to her "whats wrong?" She doesn't answer, but then hands me the phone and heads to her room in tears.

I get back on the phone and ask my WH "what is going on, why is my D in tears?" He states that some neighborhood kids were telling his parents (who then relayed the info to him) that she was so and so's girlfriend.

I proceeded to tell him that he should have talked to me first, to find out if the situation had maybe already been handled. I said that he should have spoken to me before chewing her out. How bad an idea it was to call to "talk" to her when he hasn't interacted with her in a month. Basically implying that he didn't have any right to discipline her when he'd been AWOL for 4 months.

WH " I don't think I agree with that, I'm still her dad."

ME: "You're right, you are her dad, but that doesn't make you her father. You have not spent any time with the kids, not made them a priority in over 4 months. In the last 4 months, you have spent less than 24 hours with your kids. I have not pushed you on this issue because to be honest, you are not the kind of person that I would want my children to spend time with. Your values are just not what I want my kids exposed to. I can tell the kids you love til I am blue in the face, but your actions are speaking louder than your words. This 4 months, you have not spent muych time with them because that takes away "your" time with your new family. So I really don't know what you are going to do about it, but your kids are angry at you. That is the cold hard truth. I am not saying any of this to be hateful or get you to come home, but I am just telling you that your kids are shriveling and I can only do so much for them. You need to figure out a way to be who they think you are when they spend time with you."

WH: " Well I guess I'll have to figure something out"

ME: "yeah, that is what this is all about"

WH "Well I gotta go" (standard response when he doesn't like the direction of the conversation)

ME: You always do. talk to you later

I felt so relieved that he can know how he is affecting his kids. I don't know if it will have any effect on him or his actions, but at least he can't be accountable for having the knowledge. I was very calm as I relayed all this information and actually felt a huge relief once it had al been said. I thought I was going to be all fired up for the rest of the night, but an overwhelming peace came.

I think if I follow your advice, I won't have to carry that burden for my kids anymore. Thank you!

Good for you!!

A's are bad enough as it is, and it ads another blow when it starts hitting the kids. I think Orchid's suggestion of not running interference there is a great one. Let Wh explain his own actions.

For some reason I was thinking that you had 5 kids .... not sure where that came from. Are they all between 3 and 9? Do they know why dad isn't around?

What do your IL's think of this sitch, since he's living with them? Are the IL's very involved with their grandkids?

AmI,
For some reason I was thinking that you had 5 kids .... not sure where that came from.

I do have 5. One (DS10) is my cousin's that we are guardians of. She died when he was 4, we've had him since. The others are DS - 10 (almost 11), DD 91/2, DS 5, and DS 3.

Do they know why dad isn't around?

All I have let myself tell them is that daddy isn't serving Jesus right now and to pray for him. They do not know about A. I feel like he should have to tell them. Before now, I was hoping his brain would come back and they would not have to know. They do know he is living at MIL's. They don't ask alot of questions...I am not sure why. Every once in a while I prod to get them to open up. It seems like they take turns with having a hard time with this. Like a flu bug...just keeps passing from one kid to another.

What do your IL's think of this sitch

Not sure about MIL - she is about as talkative as WH. But, FIL (stepdad to WH) thinks WH is "STUPID". He is very opinionated and I am sure has expressed his opinions openly around MIL and WH.

I am not sure I want to be the bad guy and tell the kids the A info. I am weighing the pros and cons of that. But, I am not going to run interference with WH anymore as Orchid suggested!!! That was great for me to hear. As a mom, you feel like you want to insulate your kids as much as possible, but sometimes that is to their detriment.

I understand the hesitation about talking to the kids. I had the same exact feelings. In fact, I was adamantly opposed to it. I didn't want the kids to be exposed to bad things about their dad, they already had one parent (bio-mom) that they couldn't count on, I didn't want to add their dad to the list ....

So I know where you're coming from.


I had a lot of input on that from here, especially when things were so upside down at our house and WH was disappearing with the kids. It made a lot of sense that the kids knew something was wrong, and that keeping the truth from them (in my sitch) was really not good for them at all.

LA is the one who suggested the wording for me.... it was something like.... marriage is between two people, only. Any third person breaks up the partnership. Dad is choosing to put his relationship with another person ahead of his marriage right now. I am choosing to do everything I can to try to keep our family together. I love you with all of my heart and will always be here for you. I want us to stay a family, even if that means going through some scary things together.

Keeping the focus on me more than their dad .... I would still be there for them, We would always be a family, I wouldn't go anywhere if I could help it (my sitch is a little different since I have no legal claim to them).

Just thought I'd throw some wording out there in case it might help or give you an option ..... I really do understand where you are with not really wanting to tell them, though.

And I think not running interference for WH with them anymore is a GREAT plan. So freeing!!



Since your IL's know .... who else have you exposed to? Does her family know? I'm sure her daughter's father and grandparents would not be happy with knowing she has a married man hanging around the house with her daughter every night ..... ? Anyone else who can put some pressure on the relationship? Does she work with him? If so, does work know?


-AmI.

Just checking in .... how are things going for you and your kiddos? Hope you had a nice weekend.


You've mentioned a couple of times about when you go to plan B .... have you thought through a plan for that? Have a timeline in mind?


-AmI.

AmI,

Long weekend! Had to work at our apt. again this weekend. He is still the same...distant, no eye contact, never initiating conversation. Well, he did initiate 2 conversations: 1. before we arrived at the apt on Sat, I called him to find out if he was working on the apt and he said yes. I said I thought he was there already because he was a no show at DD soccer game (last one of the season). He said he had run some errands re: the apt so that was why he had missed the game. (whatever!) Then he asked what we were going to be doing...that is the first time he has even pretended to care about our whereabouts or doings. The 2nd conersation was started by him but revolved around how much we could sell our apt's for.

At the very beginning of this, I prayed and asked God to NOT let the apt's sell until WH got his head back on straight. It just would make it tooo easy to walk away financially. So, now I am moving in and I don't plan on leaving until I feel "released" from my marriage or until we reconcile.

I did however initiate a little plan...I bought a pair of thong undies (which I would never have bought/worn before, and he knows that) and wore them while working at the apt. I never saw his reaction, but he had to have seen them and it may have triggered some thoughts in his mind about why I might be wearing them...who knows, but it was worth a try. I know that he finds them appealing. So for what it was worth...

I am thinking that my Plan B will probably start the first of the year. I have some print outs of Plan B letter suggestions from another thread and am formulating exactly what I want it to say in my letter. I am hoping to file LS papers late this month which would secure my finances.

After these last 2 Saturdays, I am kind of looking forward to my Plan B. I really do NOT like the person I see. It (he) is not the person I fell in love with and married.

AmI,
Does her family know?

I don't have access to that info. She was DV 3 years ago. I could probably find out who he is through my PI friend. He ran a check and she has no bills in her name, nothing. So she was hard for him to track down, other than following her to her home.


Does she work with him? If so, does work know?

WH is in construction, OW works at chain hardware store. She works with the contractors, so that is how they met. But they don't work together per se. I doubt anything can be done on that front. People at work know she is with him, but morals are so low in our country no one cares! WH work knows but has allowed him to keep his job because of me and the kids. It is a Christian based construction co. They do a lot of work on churches etc.

And I think not running interference for WH with them anymore is a GREAT plan. So freeing!!

I started that a little this weekend with my kids, but I have not fully explained the situation to them yet.

Should I keep pressuring WH to step up and do it...or is that just a huge LB? I think if the opportunity presents itself, I may tell the kids, but not unless the timing is right. He seems kind of concerned as to what I have told them. Why does he even care if this is the "right course". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

The word that pops into my mind all the time with him is "IDIOT!!!!!!"

I have really been wondering why I am doing this. He is such an ugly person right now. I don't like him at all. He cursed in front of the kids on Sat. and I called him on it. I told him to watch his language around MY kids. He didn't do it again, but also did not apologize either.

He did call on Sunday (straight to VM) to tell me he would be at the apt. at 1pm to finish the last of the repairs needed in order for me to paint. I had told him I would wait for him to let me know when it would be ready. I did not respond and did not show up at the apt. at all on Sun.

I just wish he could "get a clue" and realize the pain he is causing me and the kids. I am so sad for him that he is out fellowship with God. I realized this weekend that God is pursuing him and he has the chance to repent, but I feel like one of two things will happen: 1. WH will repent and our M will begin recovery, or 2. WH will continue to run from God and God will release me. Either way, I am in God's will and He has great things in store for me.

I think my depression has eased up a little with my exercise plan, but I am still going to my appt this Friday. Hopefully that will keep me on a more even plane. I still wake up almost sick to my stomach every day. At night, I fall into bed at 8 or 9 exhausted. I never used to go to bed before 11 or 11:30. I think my mind is just wearing me out. Does the obsessive thinking lighten up ever?????

Well, that is enough rambling!! Thanks for the ear!

I am in total shock right now.

My WH called yesterday to make arrangements re the apt and was very happy and outgoing, even laughed on the phone with me, for the first time in all of these 4 months since he left.

Last night I went out to Bunco with a couple of friends. Well, WH called me 2 times while I was out. I, of course, did not hear the phone ring because I have his call ringtone set to "no ring". It helps me not be so available to him. Anyway, I call WH back and the following conversation takes place...

WH: where are you (angrily)

Me: I am out.

WH: where are you (angrier)

me: I am out with friends

WH: why didn't you answer your phone, I've been calling

me: I'm sorry, I did not hear the phone ring

WH: you didn't hear the phone ring? why not

Me: it is loud where I was and I didn't hear the phone ring

WH: where are you

me: it is not of your business (calmly and very matter of fact)

WH: I called the house and babysitter didn't know where you are, What if something had happened to the kids?

me: she has my phone # she would have called me

WH and you would have heard her call

Me: yes

WH: and not mine?

me: yes, she has a differnet ringtone (true statement)

Then proceeds to tell me how he always answers his phone when I call, and I should do the same, blah blah blah. Then starts telling me how he spoke to his parents and they chewed his "a**" off for the last 3 hours because he had asked for money. I think they probably told him exactly what they thought about his recent actions, may have been the first time they did.

Anyway, the conversation then turns to CS and how I have misfigured and they aren't going to take more than 50% of his paycheck, that he wants kids every weekend. He was very angry and hateful. I stayed very calm and rebutted the untruths that he was spewing. He even suggested that he didn't believe that I was a virgin when we got married (which he knows is true), I calmly told him he needed to stop looking for justifications to hate me and make all this my fault.

Then, somehow (Divine intervention!) the conversation shifted. I started talking to him about not wanting to go down this road (to DV). The conversation was very long, but I got some important information that I never expected.

A while back I had asked WH to come home for 90 days to work on M. (per another book- Torn Asunder), he declined. I was explaining to him the reasons that I had asked for that trial at recovery.
I then asked him this: I know when we talked about you coming home and trying to work on our marriage you said you would think about it, but what I don't know is this: Is there even a part of you that wants this to work and wants to try.
WH said YES. I have not heard or seen anything to this point that would indicate this.
Then as the conversation progressed I asked WH these things:

"WH you are the kind a person that if they put their mind to something or determine to do something, it's as good as done. You can do anything you set your mind to right?"

WH:yes

"WH, am I the kind of person that if I say I am going to do something, I throw everything I have into that thing. I make it happen?"

WH: yes

" Then why don't we both decide that this M is something that we are determined in our hearts to do?"

Long pause, no response

Later in the conversation, WH admits to feeling "dead inside" "like a dead man walking"

I say that I have seen that in him.

He then volunteers the words" I am going to seriously consider this and I'll let you know by the end of the week"

To date, I have never even had a glimpse of the possibility that he even wants to try to recover our M.

WH knows that OW would have to be NC, and that MC is a must, so I am waiting to see if the fog lifts or if it was just a glimpse for me.

If you are a praying man or woman, please pray for my WH to be restored to fellowship with God. Thanks, and any words of wisdom and advice are really being sought.

will pray now for your marriage.

WONDERFUL!!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WOW!!

Isn't it almost shocking when there is such a dramatic change?

Must have been those thong panties ..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

AmI,

Must have been those thong panties .....

I really think he must have thought I was out on a date! He was furious! He really wanted to know where I was.

So, in summary: I guess the 7 bucks was worth it...it generated a response so much bigger than I would have imagined.

Now I am just in the waiting pattern again, but with at least a little tangible hope! I am trying to balance myself so that I am ready for whatever answer comes back this week. But I feel even a "no" at this point would not shut out the hope.

Keep praying!

I'm glad AmI at least went ahead and made note of the thong..I was holding back.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

So now it's fitting the bill of my midlife crisis cake-eating FWH..wanting you to be sitting there waiting until he finishes having his FUN...

Even if you do not follow my ways, maintain the SEXUAL PROVOCATIVENESS!!!

Is there a way to make him have no choice but to come into the house when he picks up the children..so that you can have everything looking and smelling homey with his favorite meal cooking?

I think you should definitely feel more encouraged...

And, of course, we will all STAY IN PRAYER....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Mimi,
Is there a way to make him have no choice but to come into the house when he picks up the children..so that you can have everything looking and smelling homey with his favorite meal cooking?

Well, maybe if he ever picked up the kids! He has not picked them up in over a month. In fact one of the things he tried to say in the angry part of our conversation on Tues. was that he was working every weekend...that is a complete lie.

I am strangely calm with this "impending" decision. I think that is because I know that even if he says no, that at least I know now that he does care, somewhere deep in the fog. I had not even had that before.

And, financially, the burden is lifted either way too. I will be ok no matter what. Of course, I hope it goes OUR way.

Thank you all for praying. I don't know what "the end of the week" means but until you hear back what the decision is, I covet your prayers.

It's also indicated that PLAN B will really bother him.

I heard all of that kind of stuff from my FWH...wait to the end of the week..and IMPENDING DECISION stuff, too, IN...

It's probably just WH "BS"..

They don't really have a plan. They are living from day to day..trying to maintain the affair high.

You are the one with the plan and the SANITY.

I'm proud of you.

I think you have him figured out.

He's beginning to turn into a CAKE-EATER, I think..and will try to start trying to get you to hang on by coming up with excuses...

STAY STRONG AND IN PRAYER...

Let us know what his next step is so we can help you stay one step ahead of him.

Here we go...

OW just called me at work to tell me that WH has decided not to come home to me. That he was too scared to call me and tell me, so she was letting me know.

I told her I would call and talk to him myself. She said not to bother. I then hung up.

Immediately called Wh and he said he did not tell her to do that. Said he was going to tell me, but didn't want to tell me on phone. That yes that is what he had decided.

Said he was confused the night he called because of IL's ripping into him. felt alot of what they said was true. Said what he told me was true but that he just wanted to walk away, be done. I asked how he could make a decision when he was confused. We went around a few times, but he is pretty firm in the fog. Wants to figure out all the DV issues before he files, like custody, etc. I told him I did not feel like it should be easy for him to walk away, to "have his cake and eat it too." I did not choose this and I am not going to pay for his choices. He said he didn't think I was paying for anything. I told him that carrying all the weigh tof this decision for the kids was a huge weight. Told him he needs to come tonight and tell the kids what he is doing. WH wants to be able to avoid telling them about OW, but I said no, you have to disclose it all. WH says " there are 2 sides to this story, should we tell them my version." I told him that he could, because his actions are speaking louder than his words, kids will know the truth.

WH admitted that IF he were spending as much time with me as OW that he would be even more confused. Basically did not want to talk to me about it, too confusing to hear truth!

WH said he doesn't even care about God, sin, etc. Says he's heard the rumors out there about him, he's the bad guy, it's all his fault, etc.

So, anyway, he is still in the fog, it was just a temporary moment of clarity. Plan B is coming...

The OW is definitely threatened by you as well she should be!!



He's CONFUSED 24/7...the NATURE OF THE WS.....



The fog lasts until the end of WITHDRAWAL (3 to 6 months of NC) or even longer....



DUH....LOL!!!!



So is he coming? Time for the homey stuff. Be looking good, GF!!!

All is not well in AFFAIR LAND!!!!