Help! Quick!

WH just emailed, I'm in plan B, that he wants clarification on my conditions for return and recovery of our M.

How do I respond to his statement that in order for his R to end with OW that he also needs to put a stop to his feelings for her, since there's more to a R than just seeing someone but also what you feel for them?

I haven't responded. He won't get until am anyway b/c he emailed from work computer and has no access to internet when not at work.

Re-send your plan B letter.
Nothing else.

It has all your conditions right?

It does, most definitely, including the letter of NC, transparency, etc. But he's basically saying how is he supposed to do this with the withdrawal feelings that he's going to have, although he doesn't necessarily see them in that light. Do I respond to that?

Here's what he wrote for clarification.



The spirit of the agreement, that I end my relationship with her, dictates that I end my own internal relationship with her. As you know there is more to a relationship than just seeing/talking to someone; a relationship exists not just in contact with someone, but also in the thoughts/feelings you carry for that someone. So, in order for my relationship with her to end, those thoughts/feelings must also be put to an end.



Do you agree with my interpretation, or do you see things differently? If so, then how?

If there is something you don’t understand, please ask and I will clarify.

What a load of crap. I wouldn't respond to it. He's focusing on an intangible condition so he doesn't have to deal with the others.

Translation: "I want to come home, but I want to keep seeing OW too. You're not going to make a fuss about that, are you?"

Just re-send your Plan B letter and say NOTHING else. Be very, very careful here.
Mulan

no response..

those feelings are not in a vaacuum they exist because he feeds them with actions...

duh...

ARK

Just a copy of your letter....nothing else.

AngieM,

I agree with the other posters, but I am wondering exactly what your Plan B letter said. Would you post the part that refers to NC with the OW just so we can see what he read? Sounds like a cake-eating delay tactic and you are too smart to fall for it.

p.s. your WH sounds like he was snatched by the alien/attorney mothership because he's splitting hairs between the spirit vs. the letter of the terms -- either way, it's fog talk

I agree absolutely with ARK. He needs a response, not you, just a response.



Send him NOTHING!

I keep thinking the same thing. I realize that his giving her up will have some withdrawal issues for him. When we were first talking so well after d day I told him that I knew there'd be some difficulties but that we had gone through that before and unless you work towards overcoming them and repairing our M, then there would be no hope to fix things at all.

I'm very much considering typing up the letter, since it was originally handwritten, and send it again. I'm taking time, remaining calm, not getting my hopes up b/c he did simething similar just 3 weeks ago, a week after my NC letter. He made it sound like he was ready and then couldn't stop seeing her when asked if he was going to go through with the NC. So I went back to my plan b, told him I had to return to the way things had been to that point, my NC with him.

My plan B letter told him that in order for our R and M to move forward, he needed to cut all contact and ties to OW. He needed to write the letter of NC, be transparent in his daily life, etc. I don't have it with me at this particular moment, but when I get home I can be more specific. It was little different than the conditions for NC with OW that are found in the example in SAA.

I know to stay calm, be patient, not fall for the fog talk and most likely false attempt at recovery from WH. I know,...but....that's why I came here first to find further support and advice from those who've beendown this road and have more experience. I don't want to jump thinking he's ready to commit to me and us and our family like he gave me the impression 3 weeks ago, just to be crushed again. He seems to want me to make his decision, to say I'm not interested in reconciliation so he's off the hook to work at it. His opening lines in the email were that he didn't no if it still matter or if I cared or if it was too late.

Never,



You bring up a point that I have championed for almost 2 years here.

It is my firm belief that a PERFECT plan B letter is 4 sentences long. I love you. I will not share you. When you feel the same, contact me. Until then, please do not contact me in any manner.

THAT does not lead to "interpretations"

with his opening lines being "I don't know if you still care..." that tells you EXACTLY what he's looking for -- reassurance that he hasn't driven you away. As soon as you tell him "yep I'm still here waiting.." you can expect him to go back to HER.

All he wants is a fix -- to know that you're still there.
Don't give it to him.

Ditto what Lexxxy said -- that extra line helps put his fog babble into context.

In addition to making sure you're still there, I think he is also giving himself an excuse not to meet your Plan B requirements and he's blame shifting for his delay. (i.e., you made the requirement impossible because his "internal relationship" cannot be cut off so quickly).

Most importantly (to me) is the tone I hear from that one paragraph...he sounds like he s trying to tell you what you meant in your own Plan B letter. His reasoning lacks logic and credibility. (A few choice replies came to my mind even though I'm a negotiator and not a litigator, but I'll let those thoughts fade.)

Cymanca - I like your Plan B letter. I might add a small phrase ... I love you. I will not share you. When you feel the same and your actions show it, then contact me. Until then, please do not contact me in any manner.

(ok, someone else can do better, but the point I was making was that the words or feelings have to be evidenced by actions - your thoughts ...)

AngieM - You seem to be doing well under very difficult circumstances with your WH and three children. Seems like your WH is missing you, so stay strong and see if he does what is necessary to regain his family. I wish you and your family the best.

What a load of manipulative crap designed to get you to break your Plan B! He is being purposely OBTUSE about the meaning of the word "relationship." He knows damn good and well what you mean by "relationship."

Angie, the best thing you can do for yourself is IGNORE this little manipulative ploy. He is trying to get you to break your Plan B and drag you into a silly debate over the meaning of words. Ignoring him will be the most effective response!

Thanks all! You are all giving me just what I was looking for, several different opinions, a couple of 2X4's, and some sound advice. The more I sit on it and stay calm about it, thinking about his message, what has happened recently with the same sort of thing, the more I think/know I need now to choose between two paths.

1. Send plan b letter again.
2. ignore his email.

What to do? I think at this point I will continue to read advice from this thread and others, consider carefully and calmly what has been said by all including WH, and most likely, sleep on it and consider tomorrow with a fresh brain as if I just received the email that morning. The wait will do him good, too.

Although I am not completely dark,he hasn't seen me or talked to me in anyway except emails and text messages regarding the kids' visitation. As much as I know and appreciate the words about this, this is as dark as I have been able to go. But rest assured, they are superbly brief and I only respond when needed. For example, today he emailed to see if he was to pick kids up at usual place, my mother's. He said if it was different let him know. I didn't respond at all b/c nothing was different. Later he wanted to know if he left a bill for his mom at the house. She has Alzheimer's and we, now he, pays the bils. Second point, I never since he moved out have called our home "home" to him, only the house or my house. Anyway, I ignored that one as well. Which then led to his leaving work late to get the kids so he could send the now discussed email.

I'm definitely going to sleep on it and at the very least consider an abbreviated version of my plan b letter in the am. I'm feeling very ok about this decision right now. Came home, had fun with kids before they went to bed, and haven't shed any tears past the couple when I first read the email. I feel pretty safe and ok with the idea that this is fog talk and fishing again to see if I still have any interest in him. I survived it the last time, I can do it again! Right??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Angie, I really hate to hear this, because you are not really in Plan B. Plan B means no contact, not some contact, not a little contact. The purpose of Plan B is to remove you from him entirely so you can detach and experience some peace. The goal is to protect the remaining love you have. If he is able to contact you at will then you do not detach and he continues to get his fix. As long as he can continue to get his fix, he has no reason to end his affair and you stay enmeshed in his triangle.

Have you read about Plan B?

And the reason I suggested not contacting him about this communication is because Plan B is supposed to be NO CONTACT. If you contact him every time in response, then you are in........CONTACT!

I think he is making light of your Plan B conditions and trying to make them seem silly. He is testing the waters to see how much control he still has over you. He wants to see if he can drag you into a silly debate about the terms of your Plan B letter [the meaning of the word "relationship"] so he can negotiate the terms to his advantage. He is MOCKING your conditions, in other words.

I've slept on my WH's email and my thoughts as well as the advice I've been given here. I was typing in a word document, thinking about what I might say in response. What do you think of this?

H wrote:
I don’t know if this matters any more, if it’s too late to ask, or if you no longer care. Please take this at face value; no tone is intended, and there are no hidden meanings, etc.

You require that for us to more forward, I must give up my relationship with her.
I understand this; I am not trying to argue my way around or away from it it.

In my mind, this condition contains 2 parts, the letter of the agreement and the spirit of the agreement. I need to know if you agree with me on these items:

-The letter of the agreement says that I have no contact whatsoever with her, and that my actions are transparent so that this can be verified. Clear enough.

-The spirit of the agreement, that I end my relationship with her, dictates that I end my own internal relationship with her. As you know there is more to a relationship than just seeing/talking to someone; a relationship exists not just in contact with someone, but also in the thoughts/feelings you carry for that someone. So, in order for my relationship with her to end, those thoughts/feelings must also be put to an end.

Do you agree with my interpretation, or do you see things differently? If so, then how?
If there is something you don’t understand, please ask and I will clarify.

I wrote, but havne't sent:
Do I still care? Does it matter? Hasn’t it always? Firstly, you know I hate discussing us over email and until you agree to commit to us there is nothing about us to talk about. While you are correct about your thoughts on the first part of the no contact with her, I am not going to respond much to the second part. I have told you my feelings and needs in regards to our marriage moving forward. You must break all ties to her, write the letter of no contact without sabotaging in some way, be honest, be transparent in your life for an undetermined amount of time to show your commitment to us and me. Feelings and thoughts give way and diminish over time when there is no contact in any way. Putting actions to those feelings and thoughts only perpetuate them. Past saying this, it seems like 3 weeks ago when you “wanted” me to make your decision for you. I will not. My feelings have changed some, but overall, they are as I stated in my own no contact letter to you over a month ago. If you are willing to commit to our marriage, and me, we can talk and begin trying to move forward. If not, then please don’t contact me again about anything other than the kids.

If you have to send him anything, then I would suggest ONLY sending him your definition of the word "relationship," which he has mischeviously bastardized to include "thoughts and feelings." How about something like this:

"the definition of relationship, in context of my letter, only refers to CONTACT."

Angie, did you read my post above about Plan B? All of this contact defeats the purpose. Can you not find an intermediary who will screen these interactions and protect you from this nonsense?