Hi Elaine,

If you ask specific questions, you'll get more responses.

[color:"red"]OK [/color]

I would never allow even a casual friend to live in their car, much less a loved one.

[color:"red"]Well, I did explain above, some of the reasons that I left without a fight, for my own sake .. but then, it did become scary and I did hurt ... but H was just glad I was gone I guess, and there was no more fighting. [/color]

You mentioned you stay because you love him, I'd challenge you to reconsider that statement. He's not providing you with love, what you are getting is a false sense of security. You stay because you are scared, lonely, needy, insecure.... it's not love.

[color:"red"] I have to say that's not all together true. I'm able and capable and willing to live on my own. I've done that before, for 10 years after my first divorce. I'm not at all scared to live alone, I actually enjoy it many times. Lonely? yes .. because I love my husband and miss his presence. [/color]

I am glad to hear you've seen a dr. and started anti-d's.

[color:"red"]I'll be posting a new message soon today, I went to my first visit to a phsycotherapist, and he determined that I had 'situational' depression, and didn't need anti-d's at this time. [/color]

Please, please keep trying to find affordable IC, I believe this will help you in more ways than we can.

[color:"red"] YUP, found one I hope... I went to my first visit yesterday, it went well ... we shall see. [/color]

You're operating from a position of weakness, you're afraid at every step. You need to recover yourself, sweetie!

[color:"red"] Well, THIS Is true! I agree with you there. [/color]

Welcome to GC <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> - Dru

Hi Elaine,
Plan A plays very nicely into the anti-Passive/Agressive mode we'd like to see you get to.

[color:"red"]I'm not really sure now, that Plan A is right for me at this time. After allot of thought and talking to C, I may be going another way. [/color]

YOU be the best you can be. You be polite. You take care of yourself and your home. You take pride in your accomplishments. You take charge of you and be a very good you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Now, this will attract healthy men to you in droves. Your H may not qualify, but that is no reason not to do it anyway! Right? Eliminate LB's and AO's.

[color:"red"]Well yeah, these things I need to do anyway. [/color]

I'm not sure the flop-side of Plan A is applicable for you, right now? I"m thinking more of a little of the 180 plan... Are you familiar with the 180? You go out, be less available, do things that interest YOU... Like not answering the phone like you did. NOT being at his beck & call.

[color:"red"]Yes I'm familiar with the 180, but still not sure this is the right time for that after talking to the C. [/color]

What do you think? - Dru

Elaine,

He can't put the burden on you...you have to take it. Please don't take it. Listen to Dru...focus on you, who you really want to be...a person who acts from their own standards...not dependent on how others act...eliminating LBs because that's not who you really are...which include SD's...

[color:"red"]I've realized I'm further behind than I thought. This just isn't possible for me yet. I thought it was, but I know now it's not. I've started IC, and he sees that I need to do allot of work before I can get to that point. [/color]

And if your H defines you in anyway, call him on it...calmly, drawing your boundary and then enforcing it...

[color:"red"] See above ... [/color]

What Dru is advising you changed my own life...I was really dependent on my DH...for all my ENs...and did the respectful 180...when I craved a compliment, I gave it to myself; I worked out and wasn't hanging around my H; I limited our phone contact to once a day; I made dates with female friends; when I craved affection, I gave myself foot rubs, lotioned up and accompanied it with gratitude to God for creating me, which is like a dual celebration...so I could balance myself...because I was upended on the dependent, and didn't want to be independent, but interdependent...and dropped all my expectations of DH except for my boundaries (no contact, etc.)...and did only listen and repeat and O&H (open and honest) drive-bys...using only "I" statements...and taught myself how to share who I was with another person, really for the first time.

I spoke and listened respectfully, stopped my DJs, my AOs and SDs. When I messed up, I did my amends and got my groove back...and most of all, I concentrated on choosing to love...choosing loving acts because I loved, not to get anything at all from DH...and this was a life-changing choice in itself. Plan A with a little 180. Stir well.

[color:"red"] I'm not there yet, I'm not able to do this without professional help, I know that now.[/color]

You can do this. You are made wonderfully by his hands...you truly are. Nothing defective, unworthy or wrong about you, Elaine.

[color:"red"]Thank You! I really do appreciate that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I do see that I need some deep cognitive therapy, but also need to get allot out with the IC, and find out WHY I'm unable to do this yet ... and hopefully get the professinal help I need to someday be able to. [/color]

LA

Good morning Elaine,

That is a perfect example of how you are so very skewed about your relationship. You are too close to see it that way, so I want to be specific, not in anyway trying to be harsh, just clear <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

You are questioning that he's clean? Wow. You're not even enjoying the nice stuff! That's a shame, too. Bad enough you have to worry about he bad stuff, but you arent enjoying the good stuff??? That's got to change, girl. You deserve a clean, nice smelling man. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"] I admit to feeling really scared about this, thinking he had been with somebody that day, instead of fixing the roof like he said he did.

I have to say, this is WAY out of character for him, to have clean hair, really clean teeth, really clean hands, and jeans instead of his work uniform.

I did go to the house the next day alone, and saw that indeed he HAD fixed the roof, how long it actually took him, I don't know ... if he DID go anywhere before or after that, I don't know. All I know is that he looks so much different than he usually does, seemed distracted, yet had this sort of peaceful happiness about him, I've never seen. That scared the ****** out of me.

If I'm all wrong, then the therapy I'm starting is DEFINETELY needed! [/color]

Think about him as a good friend.

If you had wanted to call a friend, you'd call, leave a message, and go about your life. If they didnt call in a few days, you'd try again. You would not track the # of days since the last call, then try to figure out what they've been doing. He's not your real H right now, you are seperated, so you cannot expect this from him. You need to remember this, ok? It'll help if you reframe it that way.

[color:"red"] I've come to realize that for now, that's impossible for me. I'm so fearful that he's doing something behind my back and not admitting to it, and it just rips my heart apart thinking that he may be having happiness and content with somebody else. [/color]

If your friend showed up someplace to lunch looking nice, you'd say, 'you look nice today!'. and go about the lunch.

[color:"red"]Just not the same for me, not something I'm capable of doing .. not at all! [/color]

You need to re-frame how you see this man and your relationship with him. He's not a super-close companion right now, he's the man you are seperated from.

[color:"red"] Exactly! And I love him with all my heart, and I'm devoted to this man and our marriage and to see him SO clean, and strangely content and happy, not like he is with me ... knowing that he COULD have been with somebody most of that day ... just tore me up. [/color]


You would not have grilled a real friend, so this was not Plan A behaviour. Not because he got upset, but because you were not presenting your best self. You're letting your anxiety get the best of you here. You've got to get ahold of your anxieties. That's part of Plan A.

[color:"red"] Have realized I'm NOT ready for Plan A completely, I need some intense therapy first.[/color]


Why? Who started this conversation? If it was him, you should have changed the subject, 'I'm not ready to discuss this, can we talk about it later? Wanna watch a show?'

[color:"red"]I started the conversation and my TV is broke. [/color]


Mr. Victim, huh? YOU are the one who has been hurt by his AO, IB, and SD's. See how he's twisted this into him being the poor victim with everything to loose?? You need to terminate these discussions quickly. Loose his house? That doesnt even make sense. He's really 'playing' you with this line of whining.

[color:"red"] What he meant was, if he moved in with me, he'd have to move out of the house he's renting, also need to decide what to do about his 5 cats and my 2 .. who will NOT get along. His bond with animals is very strong, I understand that ... and if he lets go of the house and cats, or even a few of the cats, and things go wrong again, he'll be back to step one. [/color]


Discussing your changes is not very helpful. Either he can see the new, positive you, or he cant. Explaining plays into the neediness! Just be fun and smart, keep things light. There was no need for your day to get all heady like that.

I see this as him being stunned by your independance of the last week, and he responded by drawing you back into your old apologizing, and being needy. That means your new attitued HAS been noticed, so VERY good job! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now you just need to practice STAYING sweet, positive, and upbeat when he tried to draw you back down. That is what he is doing... he's refocusing your attention back on him! (A real 'friend' would not do that. Did he ask you about your day, ask how you've been doing?)

You are trying to rebalance the relationship. He wants all the attention, all the control, that way he can misbehave and still have you falling all over him. THAT is out of balance.

I think that really is your goal here: balance. It's going to feel scary for a while, but you see how it worked! You've thrown him off balance, and that's good, because his comfort zone was way too damaging for you. You both will have adjust to NEW comfort zones. This takes time, but it sounds like you are doing really good!

He's a great candidate for Plan A/B. Way to go!

[color:"red"] This is so much deeper than I thought. I have much deeper issues .... and need to do this therapy for awhile before I can actually do any of this.

I believe I have a GOOD therapist this time. Hopefully in time, we'll get to all of this and get past it. Until then, I take the only steps I CAN, that I feel safe taking, anything more ... is actually beyond me right now.

Sure hope ya'll stick with me though this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

Keep up the good work, and dont let him drag you away from your goal - Dru

It's not 'wrong', but it's just not Plan A behaviour, which is what I want to point out here. You've been asking about Plan A...

[color:"red"] I know I've been asking about Plan A, but I believe I got ahead of myself. I'm not ready for that yet. [/color]

It's giving in to your anxieties and neediness. You need to get to the point that you are strong and happy without checking up on him. As you resist these urges to worry and spy, you'll feel stronger.

[color:"red"]Realized that I can't do this on my own yet, I need the therapy. [/color]

You would not check up a friend. You would be upset if your word was automatically distrusted. You would be bothered by someone spying on you. It's not treating him with respect, which is your goal. You treat him as you'd like to be treated. Do unto others...

[color:"red"] Thanks so much for your concern Dru, I'll keep everybody posted as therapy goes along, but will still need to come here and post thoughts, questions, etc. [/color]

I do think you are doing well. Please take care - Dru

I agree with Drucilla here. It sounds like your husband has noticed your Plan A changes and came over to see what happened to the old needy and helpless Elaine.

[color:"red"]Well, he had been with me the day before this, and his teeth were very very dirty (think food particles), his hair was dirty, and hands were filthy. [/color]

Just keep reading and reading about Plan A, and do all you can to keep it up. It sounds like it's beginning to work. Do you have the books *Surviving an Affair* and *His Needs, Her Needs*? There is a lot more info in those. *Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders* is also highly recommended. I'd especially recommend that one for your situation. You can get all of these either through your library or through this website.

[color:"red"] Yes, I do have some of these books. I'm sure you've read some of my replies above, and know that I started therapy yesterday. I know now that I need some intensive help before I'm able to truly carry out any plan.

I can however, take baby steps with what I'm able to do. [/color]

I also think that in your case, The 180 would be very helpful for you. You can combine this with Plan A. I think I posted the 180 for you earlier.

Keep it up! You're going in the right direction, and it sounds like you're feeling better, too. That's the idea!

[color:"red"] Thanks Mulan, I know I did well for awhile, but I also know there's a very deep intensive fear in me, if it's real (as in he IS doing something and my gut is right) then I will hopefully find out soon, if it's imagined, then hopefully the cognitive therapy will do it's job. [/color]
Mulan

He got all gussied up for you girl! You had him in the palm of your hands. Don't go all needy now! Back off and wait for him to make a move. THEN Give him HALF of what he asks for.

[color:"red"] Hi Pieta,

I sure wish I could have thought it was for that reason, but I couldn't. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I truly got scared to death! I was shaking inside, I couldn't eat only 3 french fries, it was awful. I just don't believe it was for me, because we were together the day before and he was a mess. He had taken this day off and not called me, something he knows I like him to do, he may or may not have spent all day on the roof, and he also seemed to have an unusual calm, peace and happiness about him. [/color]

Think of it like you are trying to get a deer to come out of the forest and eat from your hand. You have to earn (or in this case, re-earn) its trust and never loose it.

Be REEEEEEEEEAL sweet about it. If he calls to have dinner, agree to a short one. If he wants to take a day-long drive, say maybe in the morning, but you want to be home by noon. If he calls to chat, ask how long and agree to half the time. If he asks for sex, say you are looking forward to it--tommorrow-- and "if you bring the champagne, I'll light the candles".

[color:"red"] Sadly, I'm discovering, I have a much longer way to go before I can really do this, any plan, or anything. I started therapy yesterday, and he seems really interested, made a very good repore with me, and I think this is really going to help.

I can only do as much as I can for now.

Thank you [/color]

[color:"red"] Sadly, I'm discovering, I have a much longer way to go before I can really do this, any plan, or anything. I started therapy yesterday, and he seems really interested, made a very good repore with me, and I think this is really going to help.

I can only do as much as I can for now.

Thank you [/color]