I heard that it is extremely rare to see people getting back together after D or separation. Although I do see some women who initiated D end up changing their mind and return to their husbands, but have not yet see any XWHs changing their mind and return to their wives. Any input???

I don't know the statistics on that.I may have read long ago somewhere around 20% of couples remarry.Not sure exactly.

I know for me I would never take my ex back.More and more I have realized just how warped and hurtful he is as a person.And after all we have been through,not one chance at all.I would be betraying myself and what I believe in to take another chance on him.He hasn't changed for the better at all since this A (not surprisingly)and has failed to even define what it was he cheated for let alone being a better man.It's only made him someone I do not wish to know.

Milk,

Send out a call to SendMeOnMyWay. SMOMY & WW divorced and then eventually remarried.

Thanks for your input Beauty and WHF. I have heard about couples remarrying as well, but again, it seems there are more cases of BHs waiting around, continueing to be kind and loving towards WWs, and WWs come around eventually. This may be especially the case when they have kids, but again, I do not know any statistics. I think I have read SMOMY's story before, but this case, again, WW came back, not WH.

I know this really does not change anything, but I am just curious - it seems to me, that men may want to come back when their affairs are over or when they feel lonely, but not many men actually 'review' themselves or their actions/decisions, so they just want to come back without much efforts. Women are more emotional by nature, so when they feel scared, lonely, etc., they tend to look back and how they have destroyed their families and feel bad. This is my general intake, but am I being biased, because I am also a BW??

Milk

I have to agree with you. It appears women are more interested in working and repairing than men. It sure is true in my case, and I'm the one who caused the crisis. Since I volintarily revealed everything, I have done "everything I could" to put us back on track. My H who has also made some terrible mistakes in the course of our marriage just threw up his hands and walked away. I have to believe he was (also) very unhappy in the marriage and took this opportunity to make an exit AND have a reasonable excuse. I am his third wife - and you'd think he would have tried something different...but alas no.

I personally don't buy the women are more willing to work given the fact that approx 2/3rds of all divorces are filed by women, and the idea that when women have affairs, they have already left the marriage, while when men have affairs, it's often to just get sex.

I think if you asked Dr Harley, he will tell you, it's more difficult to entice a WW back to a marriage than it is to entice a WH.

We all view this from our personal perspective. However, I believe the numbers and the research bear out that when a woman is the one who leaves and has the affair, there is a much lower chance of the marriage surviving and that she would leave the affair partner.

Women are more likely to create emotional bonds with their affair partners than are men.

This is not the case all the time, but it seem to be more often the case than not.

And before anyone goes off on the idea that men have more affairs, I would like to remind you that they are not having affairs with other men. There are women, both single and married who take marriage very lightly.

So on this topic, I believe there are as many women involved in affairs as men, no gender is superior to the other in this regard.

Thanks for your input guys. So Dr. Harley thinks it's more difficult to entice a WW back, huh. Interesting. One of my girlfriends is is married to a guy who is absolutely useless. He does not work, he does not take care of the house, he does not take care of the kids. She works full time, she picks up the kids, cooks, cleans, bath the kids, watch their homework, put them to sleep, and also she volunteers a lot of work in the community. Her husband tells his friends to bring their taxes because his 'wife' will do their returns, while she has absolutely NO time to do these things. Because then he will look good in their eyes. The about the only thing her husband does well is to 'works out' everyday, so that he looks good. And he tells her what to wear, etc. She can't wait till the youngest daughter turns 18, and then she said she would divorce him. In this case, there is probably very little her husband can do at that time to bring her back. But not everyone has this extreme case, and I just keep hearing cases where wives return home. Maybe my being a woman makes me selectively hear stories, and it may really not matter which gender it is - it's more based on the person's personality and belief then.

Well, I just spoke with one of WH's sisters and she said that she and other sisters are 'angry' with WH for being so selfish (not because of our pending D, but in general), and she said "Milk, his actions really confirm that something has gone wrong and something is missing in his brain or whatever it is, he is just not the same person and he is NOT capable of considering others". She is mad at him, her little sister is mad at him, WH's brother and his wife, and his mother is quite upset with him. But he continues with this 'sense of entitlement' and does not seem to ever become humble.

So, based on what we talked about - not because of his gender - he will NOT likely be a generous, kind, and considerate person any time soon.

Milk

No doubt that women are having affairs...but I wonder what the research would say about the number of H who will take back a "wayward" wife...pride, it seems may be a big obstacle

Probably the same pride or decisiveness from women who choose affairs to leave rather than admitting that they weren't the model wife and having to face that perhaps they had much to do with the unhappy marriage they chose to leave by affair.

I don't doubt that there are some men who are unwilling to take back an unfaithful wife.

This site is full of all sorts of men who would have loved to be given that decision, instead of being faced with a wife who just ran off to be with the OM, without a single glance back.

Maybe it's just the DJ of some of these women that their husband will never take them back that prevents them from even trying to go back?

Who knows, it's not a one-size fits all answer.

Yeah, definitely it's not a one-size fits all answer. Each one of our cases is different, yet, the way WS thinks is practically the same - the sense of entitlement, justification, and they are the victims!

Maybe when a husband wants his wife back, he forgives her stupidity and can just act like a pursuer like when they start dating..., which to some women, is appealing? On the other hand, when a wife wants her husband back, it's like she is pursuing him, which may not be attractive to him, because usually guys want to 'pursue' women...? What do you think?

Of course, there are tons of women out there who are too 'busy' living in the la-la land, OR maybe because they are too proud or embarrased to admit their stupid decisions, and decide not to look back. It's just that I felt if you keep 'trying', women tend to more 'give in', than men.

Milk

Well what I've come away with is - it takes two people to ruin a marriage, and it takes two people to repair a marriage. I'm certain that there is always more to the story...and it is unlikely that there is really an innocent and perfect spouse in a divorce.

Oh, I perfectly agree with you hopeful, there is no such thing that the one is an innocent one and the other is the evil spouse who caused the divorce. But, we've seen here that when ONE of them recognize his/her mistakes, is working on those issues, and at the same time there are many issues that are THE OTHER ONE's, but the other one is not willing to see this point, because he/she claims their addictions or affairs are a RESULT of the bad marriage - then it will always be the one-sided story because two cannot even communicate on the same page.

The blame game.

There are some who are unwilling or unable to look at themselves to see if they are the cause of their unhappiness. Almost always looking at another person or circumstance to pin their emotion state upon.

That's not a gender issue, but an issue of character.

I believe those who recover are couples who both are willing and able to look inside themselves and work on their personal areas that need improvement.

I believe that affairs are the selfish choice of those who are unwilling or unable to look inside themselves for the solutions.

Sure, unmet needs are the source of marital discontent.

However, I don't recall reading anything by Dr Harley (in any great detail anyway) that addresses un-realistic expectations or a bottomless pit of need.

While emotional needs are valid, and I will not argue against Dr Harley's theories. I think there are folks out there who have either unrealistic expectations, such as a marriage will be a romance novel or marriage will be like being with a porn star who never says no everyday.

There will be others, who have needs that cannot possibly be met my their spouse. For example, a spouse cannot give their mate self-esteem. It's SELF-esteem, it cannot possibly come from another. A spouse cannot be a surrogate for one's mother or father, providing another chance to build that relationship. (I believe Harville is the author that writes that many folks marry their "mother" or "father" in hopes of fixing everything that was wrong with that relationship.

Sometimes folks are just incomplete, and not ready to be a partner. They are hoping their spouse will complete them.

While they have a valid need to be complete, I don't think it's realistic to expect a spouse to complete you. I believe a more healthy approach is a complementary spouse. Two healthy folks who can care live without a spouse, who have areas of relative strength that are not completely overlapping.

I believe in God, so I believe that God gives each of us characteristics where we excel, and others where we just get by. We function, but it's not a strong suit.

So when we marry, we find someone who doesn't have all the same strengths, sure, there is some overlap, but also areas where one can shine and the other can acknowledge their partners expertise and contribution.

When folks choose an affair over building a marriage, they are saying you have failed to meet their needs, and I deserve to have my needs met.

I believe that's true, they do deserve to have their needs met. However, not all needs can or should be met by the spouse. There are needs, that either God or they themselves need to meet to be a complete person.

Those who choose affairs, choose to put the entire responsibility on the BS, and I believe will be disappointed when the affair partner cannot meet their needs either.

Well said, EE!

haven't been here in ages (getting-on-with-my-life?)

I just wanted to say that I agree with what was posted about some needs not necessarily being valid and/or capable of being met by a spouse.

"Sure, unmet needs are the source of marital discontent.
However, I don't recall reading anything by Dr Harley (in any great detail anyway) that addresses un-realistic expectations or a bottomless pit of need.
While emotional needs are valid, and I will not argue against Dr Harley's theories. I think there are folks out there who have either unrealistic expectations, such as a marriage will be a romance novel or marriage will be like being with a porn star who never says no everyday.
There will be others, who have needs that cannot possibly be met my their spouse. For example, a spouse cannot give their mate self-esteem. It's SELF-esteem, it cannot possibly come from another. A spouse cannot be a surrogate for one's mother or father, providing another chance to build that relationship. (I believe Harville is the author that writes that many folks marry their "mother" or "father" in hopes of fixing everything that was wrong with that relationship."

Very well said!

In my case, my (VERY WAYWARD) XH had a 'need' to be abusive, promiscuous, dishonest...

He also had some unresolved issues from his childhood that he has failed to address.

I recently read The Peter Pan Syndrome and Men Who Can't Love; those books have helped me to accept the fact that no matter how much I loved my XH or tried to help him, he simply did not want our marriage to be healthy.

It also helped to read up on Narcissistic and Borderline Personality Disorders.

When you're dealing with somebody that's basically insane AND wants to stay that way you have to realize you can't help them by allowing them to continue to harm you.

Some people feel a strong need to be emotionally, verbally or physically abusive. Obviously that's the sort of need that should not be met.

Also, addictive, bottomless pit needs can't be met.
The only hope is dealing with the addiction;
and only the addict can decide they want to stop being an addict.

Addictive and abusive 'needs' were all that mattered to my XH and my guess is he will continue to exploit other people in the vain attempt to try to fill his bottomless pit. I just know that I will never again be one of his victims (OR his Mommy, best friend, savior, whatever).

Thanks for sharing your view, Meremortal.

Frankly, I am not even sure what it is that WH has - he seems to fit many different classes of mental disorders mentioned above as well as in other areas of this board.

Having said that, I have been reviewing if I had the tendency to 'verbally abuse' my WH. I was very frustrated, irritated, and angry towards him for some time leading up to his moving out, because I felt our promises, plans, and futures were always breached by him. WH just could not keep his words, and that really made me angry. He would lie very easily too, which I never understood how he could do so. But that probably did not give me the right to lash out my anger the way I did - I basically told him he was not a 'normal' responsible father/husband like others. I yelled at him whenever I found out he was using drugs or lusting over other women. I called him lazy too. I know he was hurt by these words. But I used them as weapons to fight - I thought by telling him he would realize how seriously upset and hurt I was and he would improve his actions. But the actions I took did not help at all - so now looking back, I know there was a part I played wrongly.

Probably this is another reason I feel that our M is truly over. While I feel bad about what I did, I also feel WH's problems were just too big for me to handle or to ever understand, and it would have broken down eventually anyway, as long as WH continues with his issues (sex and drug addictions, compulsive lying).

Milk

I went to an intersting lecture last night. Rabbi Kushner the author of books dealing with life's dissappointments was the speaker. He talked a lot about seeing others with binocular vision - that is with depth. It made me think about how I too couldn't accept my husband's foibles. They were just too painful and frustrating to deal with on a daily basis. Now that we've been separated and are heading toward divorce, I have had a chance to see the good in him and the positive stuff he brought to the marriage. However, he has not addressed any of the big things that tore us apart and will eventually tear all of his intimate relationships apart. I still love him, but the peace of mind I have now is very comforting and I don't think I could consider getting back with him until he adressed his addictive behaviors

This quote from Milkshake really struck at cord with me. I recently reconciled with my XH 3 months ago & I find myself wondering why he wanted this relationship back. Every since the D he has never been completely out of my life except for 6 weeks this year when I felt I could not deal with him in my life anymore in any way shape or form & stopped all contact with him. He started to pursue me at a time when everything in his life basically fell apart. I didn't jump right back into anything with him but I saw some positive changes in him & believed he was sincere in being ready to start a relationship with me again. So I do know a large part of the reason he wanted me back in his life but I still see that he has not 100% taken ownership in the part he played in the destruction of our marriage & that concerns me.

From the moment the D was final I had regret, I felt like I had made a mistake & rushed it when I didn't need to. I had put my D on hold twice & in an emotional/angry moment called the lawyer & said put it thru & it was done. I now feel I should have waited, he was out of the house, the day to day pain of living with him was gone. He asked me to wait a year & I didn't. Also even with all we have gone thru, put each other thru I still love him, never stopped & I believe he still loves me. We have talked about remarriage in a year or two but I know we are no where near that now, I don't even want to live in the same house with him right now cuz neither of us are ready for that yet. I would really like to go to counseling, even though I have forgiven him & he has forgiven me for things done & said to one another I feel we need help if we plan to remarry. He is not for counseling, so all I can do is pray that he will come around to the idea, if another man mentions it to him he may go. I truly do not know if this is meant to be or not, if not I know God will show me in his own time, until then I take one day at a time & hope for the best.