I've posted before, but now it has gone beyond "multiple affairs." A psychologist and a LPC have both told me that WH very clearly has a sex addiction and will likely require inpatient treatment. WH will not address the issue. He did admit to multiple PAs over the past 6 years, but he absolutely will not acknowledge the addiction and continues to lie to me daily about his online activity etc. He tells me there has been no contact since D-Day #3 (2 wks ago), yet there is daily communication between them. We cannot move forward without addressing the issues. I have an appt with an attorney next week. Continuing in counseling indefinitely. Do I Plan-A and how, or do I just move on? I guess it finally hit me that this is real, and something I have to act on.

juniperstreet

I think there's a typo in your post title. Shouldn't it read "Why do you Plan A a sex addict who will not seek help?"

Harley's pretty clear that you cannot apply MB principles when one spouse has a non-affair addiction until that addiction is completely dealt with. So that would mean no Plan A here. If you tried to Plan A him, he'd probably think he'd died and gone to heaven: a wife working overtime to meet his needs, plus whatever he's doing to feed his addiction. Woo Hoo.

You can't control whether or not your H will choose to confront his sex addiction. It has to be his decision. And it's important for you to understand that he choose to never confront it. As heartbreaking as that is, it's a realistic outcome.

So, what do you do? Protect yourself. Based on your post, I suspect protection will entail separation with very strictly defined conditions for reconciliation. Be prepared from him to try to negotiate with you on those conditions ("Can I move back and THEN start counseling?" and then he never starts counseling), so make sure you stick with them firmly.

I really feel for you. Some addicts genuinely love their addiction more than anything else. It sucks for everyone around them.

js,

No plan A/B w/ addict. You are not dealing with H nor WH, you are dealing with his addiction. Follow his therapist advice to send him to inpatient treatment.

my 2¢ - rh-

Juniper,
God Bless you!!! It sounds like you have been through so much lately.

I agree with the posters above, right now you should not be trying to Plan A him. It is really time for a serious wake up call.

But I want to put that aside for a little bit, and see if we can perhaps find out more about you, and your family.

How long have you been married?
Any children?
Do you have friends or families near by that you can lean on for support?

Juniper - ther are many, many people here who have walked that same path you are on right now. I know how scary it is. And I know how bad you are hurting. And I hope you will spend some time here for the next couple of days, posting, and reading, and basically re-charging your batteries! Because it sounds like it has been a really long time since you have had anyone take care of YOU for a change. You are working so hard to take care of your WH, that you have lost track of yourself.

What your WH is doing is not ok. And it is not your fault. And eventually, you will start to believe that.


So will you come back and post more of your story?

Thank you for the replies.
Answering WOF5's questions: married 12 years, children yes, having difficulty confiding in friends and family due to embarrassment issues (but I'm dealing with that in counseling, and I have talked about it some with 2 friends). Faith, your comments absolutely brought me to tears. Yes I am scared. I am terrified. It hurts. I can't find words to describe the pain. The infidelity began in '97, with some online affairs, role-playing and such. He knew I was hurt by it but it continued. In '02 I confronted him with my suspicions of more online/phone stuff, and he confessed to 3 physical affairs. Blew me away. Tried to move forward, but he never followed thru with counseling; i went to IC myself. I was still trying to fix him and fix our marriage. Meanwhile I was falling apart, physically and emotionally. In '04 I again confronted him. I had phone records and emails confirming his continuing infidelity. He denied everything and turned it on me, because I had invaded his privacy by "hacking" into his email. Whatever. Now in '06 I confronted him again and this time he has confessed to a 2-year PA, plus 3 short term PAs. There are numerous online affairs and a few more PAs too, and I have proof of it all, yet he still denies it. Through IC since August, I have come to realize that I have become commited to "being married" rather than commited to the marriage itself. I am wondering if filing for D will scare him into some action? I need to take care of myself and our children. That is what's important. I asked therapist if WH would just continue until he destroys himself. She said likely yes, unless he seeks help. If we go through D, is there a way to get sole custody of my children? What does it take to prove that WH is a danger to them?

HI JP,

You have to start looking at this strictly from your point, only.

He's a man who cant be faithful. He's had many affairs. No end in site.

Smartest thing you can do is remove yourself from the situation and start healing. He's a trainwreck and you cannot save him.

Interview for a good lawyer, tell him everything, explain you want full custody, hire the one who seems most interested/confident in that aspect.

I've been through this, read tons on the subject. Waiting around for your H to change will only allow more damage, to you and your children. Your H is YEARS away from his healthy self, and he's not especially interested in taking that journey.

I am very sorry. I hope you can continue some IC, you hve endured 10 years of infidelity and trauma. Please take care - Dru

JS:

A respected friend of mine who is an addiction specialist told me that an addict needs more and more and then the act itself is no longer pleasurable. If your H is a sex addict, it time to cut him loose.

No Plan A. Only Plan B. and then Plan D. You cannot allow him to create this environment for you and your children.

I he gets his Addiction under control, then you can use Harley methods to recover your M, if it is possible to do so. If not, then you and your children are in a safe place.

JS,

I am married to an SA. We've recovered our marriage...and I believe that is because my DH agreed and has been going to MC/IC for two full years as of today...hey, what a great anniversary date, huh? Anyway...they are weekly sessions. Big investment. He is glad he continues in it.

I had to change myself, JS...and I believe your lack of boundaries and boundary enforcements have crippled your marriage as much as your WH has...equally...

Divorce is a boundary enforcement...he knows that without counseling, you will not stay in the marriage. He is choosing to end your marriage. Please respect his choice and do what you predetermined. This would be you respecting his choices and your own.

No right or wrong about it.

Lots of pain...and you're in IC and sorting out why you make your own choices as you do...where your focus has been...what your real goals are in this life...and what you example to your children, if you guys have them...and to yourself.

You matter. You really do. Choose to respect his choice instead of focusing on changing it.

LA

Let me share a little of my own story, just so you feel like you have a friend who knows how you feel!

I was married 18 years. When we first met I was a new Christian, 20 years old. He was 23, had attended church all his life. I thought “wow! A Christian man!” we married, and had 2 wonderful boys. Over the years he slowly started getting involved in porn. It started with some old magazines a friend gave him. He kept them locked in his gun cabinet. I didn’t think much of it – figured that at least he kept them hidden. Eventually he got his own subscription to Playboy – it just started showing up in the mail. And he started reading it right out in the open – with the boys in the next room. I tried to talk about it several times. I would say “I really wish you would not have that stuff out here” but he would accuse me of being too “uptight” and tell me it was no big deal. His porn fascination continued to progress. He only watched movies that were at least a hard R, or worse. All times of the day or night. We had several cable movie channels, and he would flip through the channels looking for nude scenes.He would watch a nude scene, then flip through the channels again until he found another.
I would sit on the couch and read a book and feel ignored, icky, ugly. I had NO desire to be intimate with him, knowing that his mind was full of porn, but we still were intimate 2-3 times a week. I truly felt that M was forever, so even though I was disgusted with his behavior, I always hoped that he would “get it out of his system” so we could finally build a good M. I hated the fact that boys were exposed to this crap. He would be watching a movie in the middle of the day, and one of the boys would enter the room, and he would scream “get out! I am trying to watch my movie!” and I would feel HORRIBLE. That was not a good atmosphere for children.

One time while we shopping, I said “I am going to go look at the underwear real quick”. He said, “ok, I am going to the sporting goods section, I will meet up with you.”
As I was looking at underwear, I saw him out of the corner of my eye, watching me from behind the aisle. He was half hidden, craning his neck around to stare at me. I said “what are you doing?” He was just starting at me, with no expression, like a trance, and suddenly said “I was just watching you” I replied “then walk over here, stand next to me, and watch. There is no need to spy. People are going to think you are a pervert or something.” A similar incident happened at home –while I was in the shower. I saw his eyes peeking though a crack in the door. I confronted him again and said “if you want to watch me shower, then just come into the bathroom!”
I am not prude – I never tried to hide from him when I was naked. He was welcome into the bathroom whenever I showered. But to do this day I wonder how many times he was “spying on me” that I didn’t know about. Several times he wanted to take nude pictures of me – but I objected to that. I didn’t want to see a nude picture of myself! And I wondered what he would do with them (at this point I am especially glad that I never allowed it – because OW did and after she dumped him, he showed EVERYONE the pictures and the videos!)
I never, ever, thought he would cheat, until one day he announced to me, over the phone, that he was leaving. He had found someone who made him feel like the “most important thing in the world” and he said that I just didn’t do that for him. I instantly said “this is about sex” to which he said “well, partly.” He said “I like porn! It is who I am! And I can’t change who I am! And she likes it too”

I was devastated. I was embarrassed. I didn’t tell anyone for a long time – even though he had moved in with her. The boys knew – he told them. For awhile, when the boys would have friends over, they would say things like “my dad is working a lot right now, that is why you won’t see him around here anymore” I would go into my room and cry.
His family all lived close to me. I even tried to keep it secret from them at first. But eventually I had to tell them. I had to get help!!
I was so ashamed, and depressed, I couldn’t even go grocery shopping. We ran out of food, and I could not get myself to go to the store. I was afraid that I had a neon sign over my head that said “this woman couldn’t keep her H around!”

I felt completely responsible. I thought that if I had just learned to like porn, he would have stayed. If I had just let him take nude pictures of me, he would have stayed. And the boys would still have their dad. The boys did not have their dad around anymore – and it was all my fault.

But in time, with the help of a very close friend, I began to see how crazy that thinking was. I didn’t drive him away. And his porn addiction was NOT ok. After he had been gone for a few months, I realized how much better my home was. How peaceful.

And the more people found out that he left me for the OW – the more I started to hear stories from my friends who would say “I have been through that as well.” Juniper – you are not alone!!! Allow people to help you through this – and some day you will help others.

You need to get to the place where you are finally able to say “Enough! I will not allow this in my house anymore!! No more porn, no more Internet A’s, no more ONS, no More LTA’s! no more disrespect!”
It is not OK to accept the crap he is serving you. You CAN have a happy M, with a man who understands fidelity. A man who wants to be loved by you. A man you can love, and respect.
There is a chance that your H will wake up, get help, and finally become the man he is supposed to be. There is also a chance that he will not wake up, that he will continue to live this lonely, sad, sick life. Either way, you do not need to take this abuse any longer.

My good friend used to say “he can crap in your cup, but that doesn’t mean you have to dink it!”

I will post more later – this is all ready too long! Please keep reading!!!

P.S.
Wanted to agree with soemthing LA said above:

An important part of the situation that I left out: WH's career has had him working in another state for the past 2 years. He is usually home on weekends and longer periods throughout the year. The physical separation was not a choice he made in his career. For privacy I cannot say much more about that but it is a federal government position. Two years ago, we did not know that the job would be extended this long, so the family did not relocate. It was month to month for awhile. But the infidelity pre-dates this by a few years, so the job situation was not the root of the problem. Faith, LA, Curious, Red, Golfer, Dru.... your support is so very deeply appreciated right now. I don't know what to do. I guess I have an idea what I need to do, I just don't know HOW to do it. I never imagined myself dealing with this. I'm sure none of you planned on it either. HOW do I tell WH that this is indeed the "beginning of the end." I think I should have everything in order, legally and emotionally, before I drop any bombs. But it is getting increasingly difficult to live this lie. The first two times I went through confrontation and reconcilliation over his infidelity ('02 & '04) I cried and cried. This time is different. I have been numb to it and have not cried at all, until today when I read the first replies to my post on here. This is the real deal this time. I have finally had enough. I just feel like I am frozen and cannot move my feet. WHAT DO I DO?????

He denies being on phone &/or internet today. I have absolute proof that he was and he still denies it; says he "left it running" when he left for work. That is a load of crap. (So then it disconnected itself and miraculously dialed up again a few hours later? Whatever.) Why do I even bother arguing with him about this? And if I continue to push it, he will turn it around as he always does and blame me for invading his privacy and checking up on him. DUH!! What else am I supposed to do? He just goes along in his happy little fantasy world and I make myself physically ill over it. I cannot continue like this. He will be home tomorrow for the weekend. I don't have it together enough to take action, and I don't know how to get through the weekend. I am just sick.

I am NO EXPERT by any means!
But I will share with you from my own experience.

First – two more questions: how old are your kids? Do you have a church that you are plugged into?

I would suggest that you get an appointment with a lawyer – ASAP. You need to sit with a lawyer for an hour and ask as many questions as possible. Just visiting with a lawyer does not mean you have to file for a D. it just means that you are gaining knowledge. That will help you to feel more confidence. The scariest part of all this is the fear of the unknown. Friends and family will give you all sorts of well-intended advice – most of it wrong! Best to pay a professional, someone who specializes in this field, and get the straight scoop. Start writing down a lit of questions today. Things like How can I get custody, how much child support can I expect, how much will it cost me for your services, how long will it take, what is the first step, etc.

Also, my gut instinct tells me that you should not warn him that this is the “beginning of the end”. If you warn him, then he will likely strike back with the usual “nothing is going on, you are making things up” and “you are just crazy”. Also, he is likely to try to scare you with threats to fight you for custody.

But in my opinion – he will not get custody, in fact I highly doubt that he will try. He will threaten it – he knows that is your worst fear. But at the truth is, he doesn’t want to take care of the kids by himself. He has actively pursued other women – that is not going to stop anytime soon – and having the kids around would just get in the way of his “dating” life.
Plus, he is out of state most of the time – that is a huge benefit for you in a custody case! Your children need to be in their own home, going tot heir own school. No judge would ever want to disrupt that. You have enough to worry about right now; I really don’t think you need to worry about custody. When you visit the lawyer, make it clear that you want full custody, and your WH can have visitation.

How do you feel about the kids visiting their dad without supervision? Do you think that they might be exposed to anything that they should be? If so, talk to the lawyer about it.

Weekends are always tough – so start making a plan for your weekend. Plan to take the kids to a pumpkin patch – or rent a movie – bake cupcakes- whatever would bring you some joy!

How do you feel about making plans to calmly sit down with WH and announce that it is time for hi to move out? Not a threat – not an ultimatum, but a statement of fact.
“WH, I know that you are looking at porn, I know you are chatting with OW, you have had multiple A’s, you refuse to take the steps to make me feel safe, and protected within the bond of our M, so it is time for you to move out. It is time for you to pursue your porn outside of our home. From this day forward, I declare that my home is a place of refuge – free from porn, free from fear.:

What do you think? Are you ready to do that? Do you think you could pack his clothes while he is out of town? So his stuff is ready to go?

Can you set some really strong boundaries – like “I love you, I want to be married to you, but I will NOT tolerate the lies, or the infidelity any longer” and stick to it? And then, if he tries to make empty promises to “stop” or “do better” then you can say “Great! You move out, and start an intense treatment program. We will get IC, and eventually family counseling, and when our treatment team decides that we are ready to start slowly taking steps to move back in together, then we will take it very slowly”

But for now – he needs to get out. You need time to heal. And the only way he can move back in, is after months of treatment. After months of showing with Action that he is getting help.
Let me tell you that at one point my WxH said “I want my family back, I want you back: and I said “Ok – I have no interest in you any more – but I will try. But first – you need to start counseling, and you need to stop talking to all these other women, and then we will talk.” A week later he was still calling me, and I said, “do you have a counseling appointment yet?” and he made an excuse “Not yet, I have been busy” a week later, another excuse. Another week passed, and he said, “I have decided that I don’t need counseling anymore. I used to be depressed (over his break up with OW#1) but I am better now.” To which I replied, “I didn’t tell you to get counseling to get over that – you need counseling to figure out why you abandoned your wife of 18 years”. He still didn’t get it. So I told him that I was not interested in reconciling. He just said “ok” and went onto another married woman.

Today I am married to a mighty man of God, who loves me, protects me, and loves my kids. We spend time together just enjoying each other. He is never on the Internet looking at porn – no magazines – no movies. My home has truly become a place of refuge – a place of peace.
You will be in a good R some day. Maybe it will be with this H. maybe not. But YOU will be ok.

Just had another though – can you ask your IC to help you set up a list of boundaries? So that when you finally confront your WH, and tell him he is moving out, if he tries to move back in you can hand him the list of boundaries?

one other thought - how absolute is your proof? Do you need to install a key logger to track what he actually types?

Hi JS,

Start looking for lawyers. Call some womens help groups in your area and explain the situation. Just make some phone calls, you have it together enough to do that, I know you do!!! Spend the next two hours making calls, OK?

DONT argue about anything with him. If your decision is to leave the man, start lining things up. There needs to be NO more discussions. Discussion with SA's = drama... you need to remove yourself from this drama. Stay calm, be cool, and start getting things arranged.

Can you leave him and take your D today, stay with your parents or relative, maybe throught the holidays?

What can you do today? Give us some info, we'll try to help - Dru

A thought, here.

It doesn't matter how absolute your proof is. Your husband is living in an addicted state, which means that he is as unable to grasp "everyday" reality as you are when you're dreaming. It isn't something that will change. It isn't something that goes away and comes back. Even in the moments that you think should be completely normal, his reality is utterly at odds with yours.

There is no Plan A in such a situation -- that would be like trying to explain to someone who is in a mental ward, wrapped in the long arms of the white jacket, why they have to be there and gee wouldn't it be nice and cozy and a good idea to get healthy? The person who is so far removed from reality -cannot- make a coherent, rational decision. And although your husband wraps himself in a "normality" jacket every day, the underneath is still insane. Hopelessly so while the addiction is active.

So. You write a Plan B letter that makes clear that you will deal with your own issues and that if he deals with his, you'll be willing to talk about (not DO just talk about) reconciling.

And then understand that if you choose to get back together with him in less than about 2 years, there is no chance that he'll have done the work he needs to do. Addiction recovery is HARD work.

There is, too, your own personal recovery. That's where you need to focus. The first step is creating a stable, secure, safe environment for you and your kids. So go see that attorney everyone has mentioned. And see an IC who understands that with SA comes a co-addiction that -you- have and will have to deal with. That's not to say it's your fault. It's just that, like when someone breaks your arm, you still have to do the work of healing that broken arm whether someone else broke it or not.

It is so encouraging to read your replies and then come back and read each one over and over. What you are all saying makes complete sense, I cannot believe how foolish I have been, but perhaps that is part of the codependency issue in one of the recent posts? Here comes the weekend. I am not looking forward to it. Please include our family in your prayers, that our time together may be peaceful for the girls, and that I won't say or do anything stupid, but that I will be level-headed and rational. I will try and check the boards over the weekend. I appreciate you ALL!

I just read this article on CNN and knew I had to share it with you.
Even a beautiful, and talented woman like Sara Evans is going through this same stuff!:

NASHVILLE, Tennessee (AP) -- Country singer Sara Evans alleges in divorce papers that her husband committed adultery, was verbally and emotionally abusive, drank excessively and frequently watched pornography in their home.

Evans, 35, filed for divorce Thursday from Craig Schelske and announced through a spokesman that she was quitting ABC's "Dancing With the Stars" "to give her family full attention at this difficult time."

The couple married in 1993 and have three children ages 7, 3 and 2.

Schelske, 43 and currently unemployed, ran for Congress as a Republican from Oregon's 5th District in 2002. He is a native of Salem, Oregon.

He could not be reached for comment because there was no answer at a phone number for him Oregon.

In the filing in state court in suburban Franklin, where the couple has a home, Evans alleges that Schelske watched pornography on the couples' computers and has at least 100 nude photographs of himself in a state of arousal.

She also alleges that several photographs show Schelske having sex with other women.

According to the court documents, the oldest of the couple's children confronted Schelske when he was watching pornographic material on the television in their home.

Evans further alleges that Schelske frequently threatened her and "told her that she is crazy," threatened to take the children to Oregon and "continually interferes with (Evans') possession of and parenting time" with their children.

Evans requests child custody, possession of Franklin home and child support.

Hello again. Made it through another weekend (WH was home for the weekend). I have pulled farther away, as I have done for the past several weekends he has been home. My appointment with the attorney should have been today, now his office has rescheduled it for next week, so in that regard I continue to spin my wheels. Saw my counselor yesterday..... wondering why she keeps focusing on WH's addiction and not my own issues? She advised waiting to meet with attorney and developing my course of action with his help. I feel strongly that it will be necessary to have everything ready to roll, and then blindside WH with everything. That way I can't be talked out of it. I am feeling very vulnerable lately. I am reading up on several things: Codependant No More, Boundaries, and Out of the Darkness (last one is about sex addiction). Codependant is like looking in a mirror! I appreciate the support here, I have a great fear of the unknown.

I changed the title of my thread to reflect the change of thinking I've had. Thank you for the advice/explanation of not doing a plan A. After reading the books I bought, things are becoming clearer. I will meet with my attorney for the first time next week. I am scared because I do not know what to expect. Can you help me out with some questions I should ask the attorney? I guess I should work on my plan B letter and dump it on WH all at once. I actually think I can hang in there indefinitely; after 6 years of this I have become numb to it all. I know of course that hanging in there forever wouldn't be healthy, but I can do it for awhile longer while I organize things. OK thanks as always for listening.