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#1758618 10/15/06 04:53 AM
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I'm nauseous. And feeling things that I don't jive with who I think I am, wondering what my H's actions have done to my soul.

My H has had an on-again/off-again EA with a co-worker for years. He insists that they're just friends, and don't even hug. At one point, he tried to get me to be friends with her but the thought disgusted me and I refused. I found emails where she complained about her H, and he told her he loved me, but didn't know why. Crap like that. We went through infertility and despite my requests for confidentiality, he shared our business with her. He admitted it. Didn't see what the problem was. Said she was on our side and was wanting us to have a baby. All I know is that whenever I came across her--we work in the same profession--she was throwing our issues in my face, once even taunting me by rubbing her belly and asking me, sarcastically, if I was pregnant. My husband doesn't believe she's capable of such cruelty. If she ran me over with her car, he'd ask me why I was on the sidewalk.

We went through counseling five years ago, and she came up a lot. The counselor believed me when I said she was taunting me, and felt she had a crush on my H but that he loves me, not her. She said that my husband should keep being her friend because it met his need to be a hero and that I should keep my mouth shut about it. So I took her bad advice.

Shortly thereafter, she lost a baby during her eighth month of pregnancy and stopped talking to everyone at work--including my H--and had to go through heavy-duty therapy. My H withdrew from me, seething with resentment. I was preoccupied with moving past mourning our infertility and starting the adoption process.

Finally, one day I had a legitimate reason to go in his email box; I needed to find an email from a mutual friend. He stood there helping me log in. I saw an email from her with a suspicious subject. Once done with the business, I slipped out of the room and practically ran to my computer to look at it. It was a long email where they were rekindling their friendship and he was comparing their relationship to a certain EA-glorifying Bill Murray/Scarlett Johanssen movie--even including a review. He told her that no one understood him the way she does.

I. was. livid.

But I calmly confronted him. He said he told her in person that of course I understand him, but he was describing what their friendship meant to him. He said he resented me for breaking up their friendship. I reminded him that she lost a baby and had stopped talking to him. I asked him to tell me what I'd said about their "friendship" over the past several months. He had nothing to say, because there had been nothing. He said he had a right to be her "friend" and I was just going to have to deal with it.

If we hadn't adopted our child just six months earlier, I would have packed my bags.

That was about two years ago, and until a few months ago, I left it alone. I think lurking on this site this summer, and reading about the all too familiar, prompted me to finally just lay it out there. Of course, he denied everything. But I learned a lot from this site, and I articulated, clearly, how his actions were impacting me. I've done so in the past, through tears, but it's been like he's impervious to my feelings, determined to cling to their "friendship" and his "right" to have it. For the first time, I could tell that he sensed my sorrow in his responses to me. That he really didn't get what was so wrong with him sharing emotions with her that belong to me, and for the first time, a light was going on.

After this conversation, our pastor did a sermon on EAs (!!!) and used some tools from MB! Though my H was angry at first, and curled up in fetal position when we got home from church, after that we made progress in our marriage. I could sense the change. I also became more introspective about the things about me that would leave the door open to an affair. I became more attentive, and he responded. He refused to go to counseling with me, saying maybe he'd go if I went a few times on my own first. I saw a woman who told me stories about her male friends, and their personal relationship business, and it dawned on me that she was as bad as the OW. She refused to use the word emotional affair, or had never heard of the term. But, despite "firing" her after one session, I learned some things from her anyways in the area of communication. My H came home from work every day, happy and relieved to be home. I am still not comfortable with our marriage, and I hate that he works with the OW, but there has been movement in a positive direction.

But over the past couple of weeks, he has seemed withdrawn and depressed. Yet, not as in the past. In contrast, he's been completely present. He has been overprotective of me, extra attentive regarding my safety, and wanting to know if I'm OK. This is the opposite of how he's been our whole marriage. I seriously could be two hours late from work and he wouldn't have checked on me.

I've been asking him how he is, trying to show him my love and concern for his well-being, asking why he doesn't seem happy when leaving for work anymore. He's said he's OK. Finally, the other night, quite out of the blue, we started talking about baby names. As a joke, I said the OW's name. He got jittery. So, I broke the code of silence and asked how she was.

That was when he told me that he thinks she might have cancer. She's lost a ton of weight, though eating healthy. She has pain in her pelvis, and they're about to do a CAT-scan. I could tell how nervous he was as he was telling me. He has shown less visible concern for his own family members with health issues, about which he is matter of fact. I asked how her H feels about it, and he said he's worried (BTW, they have two kids). Apparently, she's been acting unconcerned. He kept asking me questions as though I'm a health expert. I tried to reassure him that it could be anything. I told him that I felt bad that he'd had to keep this all inside, that he didn't have anyone to talk to about it. He denied that he was as bothered as he visibly was.

So, here I sit with my feelings in the middle of the night. How many times did I hope that she'd move away, find another job, decide to stay at home with her kids, tell my H she hates him, fall in love with her husband again. Anything. Just go away.

And now she's sick, with something. I don't want her to die. I cried like a baby when she lost hers. I don't want her to suffer. What has caused her to cling to my H is a devastating childhood that she decided he could help her overcome. Sure, when my H told her that I felt their relationship is an EA--against my wishes--she said her H didn't mind their friendship, and because she and my H didn't feel it was an EA, they just kept right on. And she's been callous toward me many a time, once telling me that she and my H were going out to lunch and it was their special time with a couple other co-workers and I wasn't invited. A few years ago, she sent my husband an email before we went on our anniversary camping trip, complaining that our trip interfered with them being able to email each other. When I was first getting to know her, she told me that she stole her H from another girl in HS and seemed quite proud of it. She's admitted that she'd create crisis at work so my H would come running--and did this one time years ago when we were trying to enjoy a vacation at home. I could go on, but what she's done is just so stupid, and my H always defends and enables her.

But despite all that, she's a person. One who I cannot deny that I want to go away. But not this way. Do you see my quandry? What do I do with these feelings? And if I found the guts to tell my H that he is to have no contact with her period...what kind of monster does that make me when she could be facing a life-threatening situation? She should not be leaning on him, but on her H. And since my H claims she is "in denial" what I am hoping is really happening is that she's sharing her feelings with her H, and not him.

And then there's the selfish little girl in me who feels like, dang, now she is really going to get all the attention.

So, I'm really cracking up here, not knowing what to do or how to feel....

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Feel any way you want. There is no right or wrong. They are your feelings and you have every right to them. You have nothing to feel guilty about okay?

Your marriage is first and foremost. There are several dozen other people on this planet too. She can get other help besides your H. This might be an especially emotional time for her. His being close to her during this time could totally destroy your marriage. Nip it in the bud quickly and enforce NC. I feel bad for the OW but your M is what matters.

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Neither you nor your H are responsible for OWs problems. Being seriously ill (even deathly ill) is not a reason to carry on an EA. Your marriage is seriously ill; your H should attend to that! JMHO.


AKA VowsRSacred/ VRS Me 44 WH 46 dd Mar 7 06 Dday 2 Jan 19 07 EA and PA DD 19 DS 10 DS 7 DD 4
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You know, when my wife left me to go and shack up with OM and then returned home, the thing I feared more than anything was that the OM would attempt suicide or have another heart attack. I can't imagine the pain of that happening. You need to protect your marriage here.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
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Dear Imagination,

your enemy is not your H, not OW, not her illness.
Your enemy - and what you should focus on - is the fact that your H and OW do not understand the danger of their inappropriate behavior, and what disasters it could lead to for both your and OW's M.
That is what you need to "fight".

I can imagine that insisting that H get another job and has NC with this woman...
Would create serious resentment in your H.

On the other hand, your H continuing to see & work with OW..
Will create serious resentment in YOU.

Either way, your M is endangered.
The "Nobody understands me like you do" line is a BIG red EA flag...


[color:"purple"]When we lose sight of the well being of others, it is like losing sight in one eye. (the Dalai Lama)[/color]
The Neutral Zone Theory
Doing the right thing vs being a good boy/girl
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Go rent or buy and watch the movie "Separate Lies". In the movie, BS lets WS run off to nurse OP. OP dies and so does the marriage.

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I think Brownhair has some very good points. Here is something else to chew on: You say that you and your husband have grown closer these past few months. I would assume that means he has distanced himself from her a little. The things you have told us about her make her sound psychopathic. Faking a cancer scare would not be out of the question for someone like her. Obviously your husband is concerned and who's going to walk away from someone who has cancer? I would be very careful here. I don't even know if I would suggest it to your H because it might just push him closer to her because he won't believe she is capable of it.

I think one thing is clear. She has to get out of your lives. If your H continues to work with her it is eventually going to kill your marriage.


Me/BS 48
Married 16 yrs/together 23; 1 child
Dday 4/05; WH "needed space" and left 5/05
WH Filed D papers 6/05 - Divorce final 12/05
WH moved in with OW 11/05; moved out OW 1/06
12/06 His 3rd and strongest attempt at reconcilliation (I believe OW still in picture)
2/07 Affair over, begging me to take him back - it's too late.
WH has tried numerous times to reconcile.
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My gosh. I never even considered she was faking.

She had a problem with a non-malignant growth on her fallopian tube many years ago, before she had her first child. She was in a lot of pain at work, and my H took her to the hospital. Her H came and took over. When I asked about how she was doing later, my H rolled my eyes and said, "the whole world doesn't revolve around her." At that time, he was not enamoured of her. She was just another coworker, and apparently she'd made a huge deal of her ailment and it had annoyed him. At least that was my interpretation.

The other night, when he was telling me about her being sick, he mentioned that years ago she'd had that growth and now it was back. I didn't tell him that I remembered about her previous growth; I just wanted him to feel free to pour out his feelings minus my interruptions. He said that initially her doctors didn't believe her when she said she was in pain and thought she was a hypochondriac. She kept going back, he said, and finally they found that the growth had returned. But then he started talking about something being on her uterus, too, the unexplained weight loss and a need for a CAT scan.

Oh my gosh, if it's true, she's worse than I thought.

All this talk about her being in denial could be that she doesn't seem upset enough because she knows nothing is wrong. Maybe her weight loss is due to her realizing my H is taking care of me as he should, and I him.

My H is a good man. I don't know how he could have sat in church and heard what the pastor said and NOT have said anything to her. I saw the changes, I just gave him the space not to ask about them. I know that if he doesn't eventually get away from her, our marriage will die. Because Brownhair, I DO resent him in a big way, almost as much as I love him. When it comes to her, he is psychopathic, too. An hour after we returned from that camping trip, he insisted that we go to a staff picnic. Not one of those where your boss is there, but just a bunch of co-workers getting together. The OW was there, and as we approached the group I said something like, "Oh, so now I know why we had to come." He grabbed my arm and said, threateningly, that I'd better not say anything to her.

My H is the most nonviolent person you could ever meet, and there he was, grabbing my arm like a wife beater.

Another time, I found a crazy drawing in his backpack while looking for something legit. He made up a story, saying it was a drawing made by a disturbed student (he's a teacher). I knew she'd made it; I'd already seen an email where she'd asked what he thought of it. Well, it was a drawing of dozens of angry eyes, and curlycues and jagged lines. Made my skin crawl a little. Eventually, after I kept asking "innocent" questions about this student, he finally admitted, through tears, that she'd made it, and told me he was sorry for lying. I couldn't believe he'd actually made up a human being, who he named Danny, to cover for her.

Around this time, he was trying to get me to be her friend to get the pressure off him.

And let's talk about movies again. My H thought it would be a good idea for us to go to some baby shower for her and her husband. Toward the end of the evening, she popped in Tombstone. During the scene where the OW is trying to tell Wyatt Earp, or whoever the outlaw was, that he deserved to be happy--with her, of course--my H's OW turned and looked at us with this sarcastic expression on her face. She has shown so little respect for us. One thing I will say is that she did come to our baby shower after we adopted our daughter, accompanied by her H. They didn't stay long, but enough that she could see how many friends love us and our relationship and are happy for us. I was nice to her--I always am--and even asked if she'd like to come over to our house with our family some time. I don't remember what she said, but her face clearly showed that she wouldn't be darkening our doorstep.

Maybe she's sick, maybe she's not, but I appreciate the support you guys have given me. I don't know what to do next, but I agree that it's not to plant in my H's mind that she might be faking. Waste of breath. If he figures out that she is, perhaps his eyes would finally be opened. Please pray that I'll have wisdom as to what specifically I should do next. And I wouldn't mind a tip or two....

I chose my display name for all the times my H tried to convince me that things were all my "imagination" that I discovered later, with clear evidence, were not. I've only told the half of it here. Thanks for listening to me and reconfirming that I'm not the crazy one in this situation.

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This woman is not your H's wife. She is not his girlfriend. She is not his responsibility.

Is your H trying to say she is? His actions certainly say so.

She is 100% toxic to your marriage. Her presence is killing it and your husband is foolishly and selfishly allowing this to happen.

If he won't remove her from your marriage and she won't remove herself (and they won't), you will have to decide if you want to be part of a threesome. That's what you've got now - a marriage with three people in it. Your husband has two wives. He feels like king of the world and he will not give this up just because you say it makes you feel bad.

This is a nasty and deeply entrenched situation. It's just like a cancer in your marriage and it's going to take some equally tough chemotherapy to get it out. Are you up for this?

You can start by getting the book *Not Just Friends* by Shirley Glass. You read it and then leave it out for your husband to read.
Mulan

P.S. Your "counselor" should have her license revoked and be allowed to teach nothing but underwater basket weaving from now on.


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Have you ever had a conversation with OWH about the evidence you've discovered over the years regarding the inappropriateness of their EA? Possibly ask him to keep his eyes open.

It could be that he is oblivious to how his W and your H's 'friendship' has evolved. She could have convinced him of the innocent nature of their friendship to the point where he is very complacent and feeling secure about it.

I would probably contact him and share your experiences. If nothing else, is will stir things up a bit and possibly end the EA. Watch your H's reaction if you to talk to her H. It is very likely that he will get very angry.


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I'm nauseous. And feeling things that I don't jive with who I think I am, wondering what my H's actions have done to my soul.
VG NF N'DTN 'DNYI
My H has had an on-again/off-again EA with a co-worker for years. He insists that they're just friends, and don't even hug. At one point, he tried to get me to be friends with her but the thought disgusted me and I refused. I found emails where she complained about her H, and he told her he loved me, but didn't know why. Crap like that. We went through infertility and despite my requests for confidentiality, he shared our business with her. He admitted it. Didn't see what the problem was. Said she was on our side and was wanting us to have a baby. All I know is that whenever I came across her--we work in the same profession--she was throwing our issues in my face, once even taunting me by rubbing her belly and asking me, sarcastically, if I was pregnant. My husband doesn't believe she's capable of such cruelty. If she ran me over with her car, he'd ask me why I was on the sidewalk.

We went through counseling five years ago, and she came up a lot. The counselor believed me when I said she was taunting me, and felt she had a crush on my H but that he loves me, not her. She said that my husband should keep being her friend because it met his need to be a hero and that I should keep my mouth shut about it. So I took her bad advice.

Shortly thereafter, she lost a baby during her eighth month of pregnancy and stopped talking to everyone at work--including my H--and had to go through heavy-duty therapy. My H withdrew from me, seething with resentment. I was preoccupied with moving past mourning our infertility and starting the adoption process.

Finally, one day I had a legitimate reason to go in his email box; I needed to find an email from a mutual friend. He stood there helping me log in. I saw an email from her with a suspicious subject. Once done with the business, I slipped out of the room and practically ran to my computer to look at it. It was a long email where they were rekindling their friendship and he was comparing their relationship to a certain EA-glorifying Bill Murray/Scarlett Johanssen movie--even including a review. He told her that no one understood him the way she does.

I. was. livid.

But I calmly confronted him. He said he told her in person that of course I understand him, but he was describing what their friendship meant to him. He said he resented me for breaking up their friendship. I reminded him that she lost a baby and had stopped talking to him. I asked him to tell me what I'd said about their "friendship" over the past several months. He had nothing to say, because there had been nothing. He said he had a right to be her "friend" and I was just going to have to deal with it.

If we hadn't adopted our child just six months earlier, I would have packed my bags.

That was about two years ago, and until a few months ago, I left it alone. I think lurking on this site this summer, and reading about the all too familiar, prompted me to finally just lay it out there. Of course, he denied everything. But I learned a lot from this site, and I articulated, clearly, how his actions were impacting me. I've done so in the past, through tears, but it's been like he's impervious to my feelings, determined to cling to their "friendship" and his "right" to have it. For the first time, I could tell that he sensed my sorrow in his responses to me. That he really didn't get what was so wrong with him sharing emotions with her that belong to me, and for the first time, a light was going on.

After this conversation, our pastor did a sermon on EAs (!!!) and used some tools from MB! Though my H was angry at first, and curled up in fetal position when we got home from church, after that we made progress in our marriage. I could sense the change. I also became more introspective about the things about me that would leave the door open to an affair. I became more attentive, and he responded. He refused to go to counseling with me, saying maybe he'd go if I went a few times on my own first. I saw a woman who told me stories about her male friends, and their personal relationship business, and it dawned on me that she was as bad as the OW. She refused to use the word emotional affair, or had never heard of the term. But, despite "firing" her after one session, I learned some things from her anyways in the area of communication. My H came home from work every day, happy and relieved to be home. I am still not comfortable with our marriage, and I hate that he works with the OW, but there has been movement in a positive direction.

But over the past couple of weeks, he has seemed withdrawn and depressed. Yet, not as in the past. In contrast, he's been completely present. He has been overprotective of me, extra attentive regarding my safety, and wanting to know if I'm OK. This is the opposite of how he's been our whole marriage. I seriously could be two hours late from work and he wouldn't have checked on me.

I've been asking him how he is, trying to show him my love and concern for his well-being, asking why he doesn't seem happy when leaving for work anymore. He's said he's OK. Finally, the other night, quite out of the blue, we started talking about baby names. As a joke, I said the OW's name. He got jittery. So, I broke the code of silence and asked how she was.

That was when he told me that he thinks she might have cancer. She's lost a ton of weight, though eating healthy. She has pain in her pelvis, and they're about to do a CAT-scan. I could tell how nervous he was as he was telling me. He has shown less visible concern for his own family members with health issues, about which he is matter of fact. I asked how her H feels about it, and he said he's worried (BTW, they have two kids). Apparently, she's been acting unconcerned. He kept asking me questions as though I'm a health expert. I tried to reassure him that it could be anything. I told him that I felt bad that he'd had to keep this all inside, that he didn't have anyone to talk to about it. He denied that he was as bothered as he visibly was.

So, here I sit with my feelings in the middle of the night. How many times did I hope that she'd move away, find another job, decide to stay at home with her kids, tell my H she hates him, fall in love with her husband again. Anything. Just go away.

And now she's sick, with something. I don't want her to die. I cried like a baby when she lost hers. I don't want her to suffer. What has caused her to cling to my H is a devastating childhood that she decided he could help her overcome. Sure, when my H told her that I felt their relationship is an EA--against my wishes--she said her H didn't mind their friendship, and because she and my H didn't feel it was an EA, they just kept right on. And she's been callous toward me many a time, once telling me that she and my H were going out to lunch and it was their special time with a couple other co-workers and I wasn't invited. A few years ago, she sent my husband an email before we went on our anniversary camping trip, complaining that our trip interfered with them being able to email each other. When I was first getting to know her, she told me that she stole her H from another girl in HS and seemed quite proud of it. She's admitted that she'd create crisis at work so my H would come running--and did this one time years ago when we were trying to enjoy a vacation at home. I could go on, but what she's done is just so stupid, and my H always defends and enables her.

But despite all that, she's a person. One who I cannot deny that I want to go away. But not this way. Do you see my quandry? What do I do with these feelings? And if I found the guts to tell my H that he is to have no contact with her period...what kind of monster does that make me when she could be facing a life-threatening situation? She should not be leaning on him, but on her H. And since my H claims she is "in denial" what I am hoping is really happening is that she's sharing her feelings with her H, and not him.

And then there's the selfish little girl in me who feels like, dang, now she is really going to get all the attention.

So, I'm really cracking up here, not knowing what to do or how to feel....
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Me - BS DDay 1 (Multiple affairs while overseas) - Feb 2003 DDay 2 (AdultFriendFinder Profile) - April 2007 Seeing a counselor. I think we have him stumped.
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(Dobie: what is a DD2? A dear daughter #2?)

It makes me sick that I am in this triangulated situation, but I've come to live with it. It's like my H has this addiction and I work around it. This has been going on for over 10 years. I put it out of my mind as often as I can. I know that enables him, but after two failed counseling attempts--see above--I just feel stuck. I've threatened, I've been nice, I've listened, I've cried. It has seemed to change lately...but then he started seeming depressed, and then shared this secret about her illness or non-illness. Should I expect more of the same? Probably.

Mulan, I read your sig. There's one other woman in his office who he teams up with all the time on projects, usually unnecessarily, to even his boss' and her boss' chagrins. She also bordered on taunting about our infertility, constantly asking when we were going to have a baby. At one point, she tried to befriend me and I responded, but then she got all dismissive when we brought home our daughter. She showed up at our house one day when she was just 'in the neighborhood.' Every time I turned around, after we adopted, she was calling him, as if to say, "don't forget about me!" Once he came home early, and we were walking around the block with our new daughter, and he got an irate call from her because he'd forgotten their meeting. One day I was at an event at their workplace, and he went to help her with a mic and she looked at me with a look of self-satisfaction. I wonder if he switches off between her and the other OW; no surprise here: they don't get along. Recently, I sent her an email about a business matter, and since she claimed to care about her so much, attached my daughter's picture and invited her and her husband over for dinner some time. I got no response.

And she's also a bit troubled. When she was a child she was raped by her stepfather, and tried to kill him.

My H hides behind the notion that a lack of sex means there's nothing wrong with these relationships. When I tell him it's a million times worse because I don't have his whole heart, he looks bewildered or defiant, based on his mood or the situation.

I have OW #1's H's email address. I copied it out my H's email box when he'd tried to send him an email years ago to shoot the breeze. The OW's H did not respond. The reason why I'm afraid to tell the OW H's my concerns is because he is a police officer. He carries a gun. The last time I was around him, he was glaring at my H. My guess is that at one time he was OK with their friendship, but he's had enough.

As for the second OW H...I have his phone number. I have no idea how he feels, just that my H said OW #2 had complained to him about how he just plays video games when they're home together. He tried to sell us Amway, under another moniker. We did a couple of couple things together, but after that Amway thing, there's been distance. He never shows up at any of her work events. I wish he would. At one event, a dance, my H was dancing with me, but looking over my head at her dancing provocatively with another woman. (No, she's not gay.) I was humiliated.

That is how I feel a lot. It has become a way of life.

My H seems to be trying to change, and has been really good to me lately. A couple of weeks ago, I saw in his email box that he had a meeting with OW #1, but not knowing I knew who it was with, he cancelled it and came home to be with me and our daughter. I saw in another email that he was complaining about a business matter involving OW#2 to her boss, behind her back. Could the fog be lifting....?

The only way I can seem to put an immediate end to all his nonsense with these other women, is to leave. And yet things are better. But I know they won't stay this way unless he stops seeing them all together, and gets counseling for the deficits that lead him to wander.

I feel stuck.

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Hmmm. A pain in her pelvis?

Maybe she wants your husband to "look at it" or something. Sounds like SHE is a real pain in your butt, herself!

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You might want to read up on my situation - back in 2000. Thankfully, my husband and I were students of the Harleys, and had worked with Willard Harley. My husband knew enough about EAs to recognize when lines were crossed. Of course, he didn't recognize the beginning of the EA - just when the "friendship" crossed the line into the more "personal" nature of conversations, he backed out in a hurry. He came to me and confessed that he had created a monster with this so-called friendship.

Have you read His Needs Her Needs with your husband and completed the emotional needs questionaire? Have you had a discussion about love bank deposits and how you can increase deposits in your account with him?

Focus there rather than on whether or not this woman is sick or not sick. She can only be a threat if your husband remains in the dark - by ignorance or intention. Remove the ignorance!


Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1

The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
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Read this:

Four Rules for a Successful Marriage

The Harley's book called 'Love Busters' would be another book to read together with your husband. Better yet get the MB Homestudy Course and work through it together.


Married 1976
Me:BS
Him:FWS
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2 S's: '77 & '80, 1 D: '82
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Kayla...

We went through the Emotional Needs survey a few months ago. It was a good exercise for us and inspired us to ask each other some deep questions. That's when all this happened:

<<That was about two years ago, and until a few months ago, I left it alone. I think lurking on this site this summer, and reading about the all too familiar, prompted me to finally just lay it out there. Of course, he denied everything. But I learned a lot from this site, and I articulated, clearly, how his actions were impacting me. I've done so in the past, through tears, but it's been like he's impervious to my feelings, determined to cling to their "friendship" and his "right" to have it. For the first time, I could tell that he sensed my sorrow in his responses to me. That he really didn't get what was so wrong with him sharing emotions with her that belong to me, and for the first time, a light was going on.>>

I wish we'd been students of the Harleys like you two earlier on in our marriage. We've been floating about without practical tools for the bulk of our marriage, which makes us pretty vulnerable. Our pastor used excerpts from the survey in his sermon, which was confirmation for me that finding that tool and us using it at that particular time was no accident. I know that God loves us and our marriage and is fully capable of helping us overcome our struggles. Nothing is too hard for Him.

Trix...

Thanks for passing on the rules. I don't think I've seen them before. I started going through them last night until I fell asleep and will go back and read some more when I'm done posting. Just reading about the Giver and Taker opened my eyes to the roles we've been playing since he's been deeply entrenched in his EA. He's been a Giver towards her, and a Taker where I'm concerned. In other words, as the article describes...in LOVE with her and not me...and that recognition hurts. A lot.

And yet I almost haven't been able to accept him playing the Giver for me lately. It's sad, but every time he goes out of his way for me, subconsciously, I think I'm taking something from her. It's hard to accept his attentions, because there's this tape playing in the back of my mind where I'm thinking of all the special things he did for her. I find myself feeling bad that she's having to do without. But at the same time I'm wondering if she's pushed him away and he has no one else to give to, so he just gives to me. I feel lavished upon, like an impoverished woman suddenly given a string of pearls, and I don't know where they came from or what to do with them. They don't fit my wardrobe. I've clothed myself with martyrdom, self-disrespect, and low self-esteem.

Then I heard she was "sick." Until I came here and posted, I was already starting to mentally check out on our relationship and beginning to accept that of course she would need him, and I should take a backseat again.

But my gosh: that is just sick, and thanks to you guys, I can see it. I have been part of enabling them to lean on each other by my inaction and grudging acceptance. Because there has to be something I can do. Marriage isn't supposed to be this way. For one thing, I need to stop blaming and stewing whenever something regarding her comes up, and redirect my focus on building up our marriage.

Sorry for the early morning ramblings...I just feel that there's so much we can learn and a better life for us, if we can get on the same page and stay there.

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DD2 is my 2 year old daughter who seems to be a big MB fan. Sorry for the interruption. My husband and son forget to log off of my XP account, so she hops on turns into a tiny geek.


Me - BS DDay 1 (Multiple affairs while overseas) - Feb 2003 DDay 2 (AdultFriendFinder Profile) - April 2007 Seeing a counselor. I think we have him stumped.
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Imagination~
Different scenario with my WH, but I can certainly and
totally understand your feelings as far as a "disconnect"
between your feelings and the person that you believe
you are. I think your feelings about OW are very normal
and reasonable, and that you shouldn't feel guilty or
bad.

I almost felt sorry for the OW when I first found out about
my WH's affair, because he had lied about his whole life,
our marriage and me, telling her anything he could to make
himself sound like "Mr. Wonderful". (they met on internet).
Once she found out about many things he'd lied about and
left out of his "story" entirely, including the fact that
we were not seperated and had not filed for D, OW was very
mad and kicked WH out of her house. She called to "warn"
me he'd be wanting to come home, and at first I thought she
really was trying to be "friendly" but later realized she
was playing a game (her specialty) and trying to find out
whether or not I'd want to take him back.

Their "break up" lasted about two weeks, and they were right
back together. Realized this, and that she did knowlingly
do this now knowing the truth about him being married and
having a wife who loved him and was doing all I could to
save our marriage caused me to lose any respect I could
have had for her or my feeling sorry for her at all, because
I realized "what" she was.

Since then she's shown herself to be quite the paranoid
and unbalanced person. While WH was home, during our brief
"false recovery" ealier this year, she would constantly
call both his cell and our home phone to the point where I
would shut the ringers off. She would call, just trying to
get me to answer the phone,or leave insulting, nasty type
messages. She would call early or late, even called late one
night saying she was having one of her "attacks" (supposedly
she has a heart condition). WH would say he "felt sorry" for
her because she'd just moved here and "didn't know anyone"
and I think his feeling guilty or responsible for her was
what started the affair right back up.

Despite all the bizarre behavior, she and WH keep "breaking
up" but getting back together and the A continues.
I'm not a person who normally dilikes or harbors any ill
feelings towards anyone. I hate conflict, hate being upset,
and hate having anyone upset or mad at me. But, after the
way this OW has acted, I can honestly say I've wished she
would have an "attack" that killed her, or some kind of an
accident. Then I do feel guilty and horrible that'd I wish
something on someone.

Whether your OW is legitimately ill or not, she is NOT your
WH's or your concern or responsibility. I'd urge you to
remember this and protect your marriage, first and foremost.

Slammed

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Slammed...

I just happened to read a thread just a few minutes ago where you told your story. My gosh: you've been through a lot! You are a strong person, and I appreciate that you take the time to reach out to others who are struggling.

I guess I'm a prime candidate to be an OW, because I just don't think it's possible that I could ever cheat. I don't understand how they think. As obnoxious as my H has been at times, I don't want anyone but him. If I find a man attractive, my guard goes up and I'm off in an entirely new direction without looking back. Particularly and especially if the man is married. NO way.

I realize that I am sounding mighty self-righteous. Adultery is just a horrendous thing to me, and I don't understand how people can be so duplicitious.

Yes, I know, it is an addiction, and yada and yada. But I just don't know how something inside you isn't screaming "Don't go there!" when the possibility of cheating arises. Both of the women who have recklessly opened themselves up to my H have had significantly disturbing childhoods. I'm not surprised that they've chosen to cling to him; he's smart and a good listener. I find myself feeling sorry for them that they didn't marry someone with those traits...but I am disgusted all the same. Mostly because they know our child, and shamelessly put their needs before our family, jeopardizing her happiness because they are so needy. They know what their childhood was like, but don't care about hers. I'm not excusing my H, but what is up with them????

Anyways...thanks for being honest about your feelings. It helps.


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