My WW text messaged me today.
The message was:

"I'm thinking about coming back to sort everything out, i don't know how it would work financially though... message me back"

Hmmm, this doesn't sound like someone who realizes the damage they've done or feels any remorse for it.

She is miserable in her move out to be with OM and she is broke apparently.

Son of a....

This sucks worse than if she'd just stayed away.

ps... this comes one day after i told her very forcefully that i was divorcing her by December. Fence knocker!!!

It is kind of hard to text your heart and soul. The buttons are too small. What difference does it truly make why she wants to come back. WW's never come back for the reason you want them to - at first. Do you want her back? If you do, negotiate with her your requirements for coming back.

Put yourself in her shoes for a minute. It has to be very hard and humiliating to come crawling back. If you want the M to work (or at least give it a chance), maybe this is your first real opportunity.

If you are waiting for her to come running back telling you that she was a fool, doesn't know what got into her, realizes she loves you and cannot live without you, you might want to wait a tad longer.

If you want her back, and providing she will agree to your conditions for coming back, then work it out, go back to Plan A, go to MC/IC, and start working on your marriage.

Also sleep with one eye open.

Jennifer Harley advised me that most WS who come back, act as though YOU are lucky they gave YOU another chance....at least until they go through withdrawl and begin recovery....and the fog clears....then they can "see" the reality of what they did and WHAT YOU DID BY WAITING FOR THEM and TAKING THEM BACK

if my H wants to come back....i will have a hard time accepting this also..i will want him to come back because he WANTS ME...not for any other reason

but i don't think that's often how it happens

ps
love your fence knocker!! wish i had one that would have worked but my H jumped off the fence onto the other side all on his own....with a big grin on his face

Hmmm, we talked on the phone tonight and she wants to move back for a trial month wherein we will go to counselling.
She will keep her apartment and apparently wants me to foot some of the bill. Also, she sounds pretty certain that divorce is a likely outcome.

What the #%#$!!!

She is talking crazy- she was angry as ****** at me on the phone and i can't figure out why.

So to summarize: she wants to come home and go to counselling (trial basis) but she sounds like she hates me and thinks it will lead to divorce anyways.

Sounds like a great recovery.

No Thanks.

So that was her offer. What's your counter-offer? What about POJA?

DO NOT let her back unless she writes a NC letter and agrees to NC, total transperency (you checking up on her) etc.

You cannot recover and counselling will be a total waste of money if there is ongoing contact.

Oh and if she is in NC she will be in withdrawal so hating you is a given.

Wow that sounds like an important step for your relationship. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Like you succintly put it.......No Thanks

hmmmmmm

translation "OM was helping me with the bills and now i can't afford to live by myself. I don't want to be alone but i'm not sure that i want to be with you either. so i'm asking you to open the door to let me in but i want you to know that i'm going to keep my foot in that door in case i decide to go running back to my apt or in case OM decides he wants me back. I'm sure this will be alright with you since i'm sure you want me back anyway you can get me."


make a counter offer.....

NC letter, get rid of apt, call the harley's...you'll pay for the sessions!

Magritte;

That girl sure knows how to negotiate. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Man, I don't know how you can turn down a sweet deal like that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I agree counter her offer IF you want her back. I suspect it might come as a surprise that OM has dumped her, and you are beginning to see OM's point. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Keep talking though because gradually the "fog" will lift. Especially, if she begins to realize you are NOT interested in the woman she is currently.

God Bless,

JL

Have you asked her "Why" she wants to come home????

If not, I start off with this first. Ask her and see what her response is.

Counselling..............well if she is serious about this, it doesn't mean that she has to "move back in" to do this.
If she is keeping her appartment anyways and if she wants to try for month, she can stay in her appartment, can't she???

I'd take this very slowly...............start with "little" steps...................
Plan A her and still "SET YOUR BOUNDARIES!" Make it clear to her that it is NOT her choice whether she moves back or not, it is YOUR choice.
Well, you don't have to tell her this directly but make it clear that this is NOT the time to move back in.

If you are willing to work on your relationship and if you feel that you have the strength to be the "strong" one........you have to have a plan.

Reading here in MBers, makes it very clear that many WS are frustrated and angry........they go through withdrawel and it's extremely painfull for them. (I'm aware of the pain that we BS go through) and yet, if you are aware of how WS react............you are one step ahead.

My husband (xWS) told me that it was the way I reacted, that helped him out of the "Suffering Mode". It was a mix of "Plan A & Setting Boundaries."

I Planned A my Butt off and yet I made it very clear that I knew what I wanted/didn't want.

There were many times when he'd get furious, but I stuck to what I told him. Many years later, I'm aware that I was definately the "Strong" one in our marriage.

Before/during his affair, I had always been the "Organizer/Manager" in our relationship. I took care of almost everything. Business/$$$/children/cleaning/washing/shopping/cars/building of our new house/lawyer............and and and.....

This was of course very comfortable for my husband and it was totally frustrating for me.
Well, I had to put my foot down and I told him that this had to stop. I handed over a great deal of these responsibilities to him.
He'd sprew and he was furious at times. He would threat me and he tryed to talk me down many times.

I'm happy that I didn't give in..............boy am I!!!!

Now almost 6 years later............he's as responsible as ever. He sees the importance and it has even become fun for him to do these things.

It was a matter of breaking old habits and starting something new.........it was up to me to make these changes and to stand up for what I wanted or didn't want.

It was the hardest thing I ever had to do. (besides accepting what I couldn't change) I was scared to death many times. I wasn't sure what the outcome was going to be.

Now after such a long time, I can say that I'm prowd of myself. I'm prowd that I followed my plan, even though I wasn't sure what the outcome was going to be.

Magritte,
take the time and sit down...............what is it that YOU want????
What is your plan??? Do you want to work on your relationship??? This isn't going to happen overnite, that's for sure but it can work!!!!



Don't try to figure this out, it'll probably never make sence.........just try NOT to take things personally!!! This might not make sence to you right now but your WS is totally frustrated and probably still "fogged up"............calm down and think about what you want. Take the best care of yourself right now!!!!!

bb

You've got a clear mind. Don't lose it. Don't let her fog up your reality. She wants back, the stakes and work on her part need to stay up there. No lowering of your standards to make her return easy.

Seems like $$ is playing hard to get. She is still displaying WS tendancies which is toxic to have around you. She needs to not just say but provide tangible and trustworthy actions to convince you she is worth having back. Requesting you to pay her bills is NOT a benefit for you.

JMHO,
L.

I don't even know where to begin with formulating a plan of recovery.

I know that one month with an available escape route back to the OM with me footing the bill sounds like a recipe for disaster.

I guess i need to be prepared to lay down down some ultimatums about how this is going to work.

I'm a little worried that she is exhibiting no remorse and we are doomed to failure. I don't want to go through that pain again.

What does a good recovery plan encompass?

I totally agree. You are a smart man.


Not ultimatums. Boundaries. There is a difference.


1. A NC letter that she writes, you read, you both approve, and you mail.
2. Agreement that both of you will be totally transparent to the other - everybody has each other's passwords and access to cell phones, email, everything. No secrets.

That's a good start.

Offer these two things and see what her reaction is. That will tell you where she really is.
Mulan

Magritte:

To start here:

I don't even know where to begin with formulating a plan of recovery.

There is plenty of info around here on working on recovery, but you need to get WS to NC before you consider that.

I know that one month with an available escape route back to the OM with me footing the bill sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Sounds like you establishing some boundaries!

And this:

I'm a little worried that she is exhibiting no remorse and we are doomed to failure. I don't want to go through that pain again

That is where the anger comes from. Your WS is still in the FOG, and OM is detaching, not always available, not what she thought, doesn't want to pay for her apt, doesn't want to hear her complain about you, etc, and she realizes, deep down that she really screwed up. Your actions will determine if your M survives, not the WS. The WS has made a choice to leave. You want your W back. Establish your boundaries and under what terms she can come back. Have her OM pay for her apt if she doesn't want to cancel it. (See what happens when she brings that up with OM! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> She will be VERY angry with you for suggesting it, because we already know the answer!) You do not have to pay for it. The remorse will come. IN about a year, maybe longer. You are not doomed to failure unless you decide not the fight for this. But she has to want to as well. If you have done everything possible to save it, and she stays on the other side of the fence, then you can let her go with your mind clear.

I think she should also be giving her one month's notice to her apartment complex at the end of the month. If it don't work out you'll agree to help her move to another apartment if they won't relet her the one she is in. Often the apartment complex has several vacancies so she can just indicate that she may decide to stay if they will have her. She can just tell them the circumstances of her notice.

I don't believe I'd have her move back home yet. Let her withdraw at her apartment but agree to spend a lot of time with you. Dates every weekend. Not too serious on the recovery part until December. Have December be the month she moves back home thus giving you 2 1/2 months to attempt reconciliation instead of just one month wherein she'll be in full withdrawal anyway.

She must agree to no contact or it won't work.

Then the next 6 weeks you get to date her. She'll be depressed then YOU come in a lift her spirits (maybe). She'll be relying on you to feel better.

Sure it's a risk. Getting her home would be better but she's got to give 30 days notice probably anyway so use that time to get a more slow transition. It's safer for you too. You'll likely be unable to deal with your hurt and her withdrawal at the same time. Limited exposure means you can recover from each interaction a little easier and gear up your Plan A courage for each new interaction.

BTW, it will take months for her to come out of the fog and get it. Focus on YOUR VOWS and what they mean to you. Be the best individual and husband you can be for YOU and allow the rest to take care of itself. You can't teach her. You can only lead her. You want her to be a great wife again...then be a great husband. She'll either follow or shortly get out of the way...HER CHOICE.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

I drafted up a letter for her:

What do you think of it?

A Plan for Reconciliation
It takes two people to reconcile. I’ve been very clear from the very beginning that I am willing to work as hard as I can to make sure that you are comfortable, safe, certain of my love, and most importantly, happy in our marriage.

One month of recovery time is not enough for us to make it work. One month will not give you enough time to feel comfortable in our environment. One month will not give us enough time to do the things we need to do to feel married again and supported by each other. Most importantly, one month is not a sign that you are 100% committed to recovery.

After our split, I spent months reading books about how to properly recover a marriage and in most cases there are several months of awkwardness, difficulty and posturing before the true feelings of love can resurface. I can handle this. I welcome the challenge.

It’s going to be a rollercoaster. It’s going to take time.

The following are my requirements for reconciliation:

1. NO contact with him. This will include a letter drafted by the two of us describing our earnest effort to rebuild our marriage and any interference will not be tolerated. This must be sent to him and his friends.

2. Moving back home for good. There can be no temporary feeling out process for reconciliation. It takes 2 people who are 110% committed to the painstaking effort required. (We can rent a storage unit for excess furniture if need be)

3. Marriage counseling. Independent counseling.

4. Total transparency. This means that we have access to each others phone passwords, email accounts, computers etc.


This separation has made me strong. I have realized that I don’t need you in my life to be happy. However, recent actions aside, I have never respected, loved and been so attracted to a woman in my life as much as you.

This letter represents a few of my boundaries. I will not tolerate a false recovery and as long as you maintain an attractive escape route back to Calgary can you truly be committed to enduring the inevitable pain and withdrawal stages of recovery?

I feel good about myself and my actions since our separation. I am confidant in what I am doing and where I am going. I want to take pride in what we achieve without any lingering guilt or compromise.

Small victories build cumulatively into a solid future. Setbacks will occur along the way.
Life is all about choices, we can choose to make the future as good as we possibly can through hard work to start with and having progressively more ‘good’ days, or we can let the past and all its related fears and hurt and misery dominate and forever hold us back.

A Plan for Reconciliation

It takes two people to reconcile. I’ve been clear from the very beginning that I am willing to work as hard as I can to make sure that you are comfortable, safe, certain of my love, and most importantly, eventually happy in our marriage.

I don't believe one month of recovery time is enough for us to make it work. One month will not give you enough time to feel comfortable in our environment and recover from the ending of your relationship with Mr. T. Kneepeter. One month will not give us enough time to do the things we need to do to feel married again and supported by each other. Most importantly, my hearts telling me that one month is not a significant enough sign that you are 100% committed to recovery.

I have read many books about how to properly recover a marriage and in most cases there are several months of awkwardness, difficulty and posturing before the true feelings of love can resurface. I can handle this. I welcome the challenge. We just need at least a month or two before we can really even commence recovery.

It’s going to be a rollercoaster. It’s going to take time.

The following are what I envision as the minimus starting guidelines to a potentially successful reconciliation:

1. NO contact with Mr. Kneepeter. This will include a sending him a letter drafted by the two of us describing our mutual commitment to rebuild our marriage and insisting that all communications cease completely and forever.

2. Moving back home for an aniticipated few months on December 1, 2006. It takes 2 people who are 110% committed to the painstaking effort required. (We can rent a storage unit for excess furniture if need be). For the next 6 weeks we need to spend as much time together as possible. This 6 week period doesn't need to be all that serious unless we are mutually willing and able to talk about our issues. I think this adjustment period would be better spend just trying to go out and have fun in an attempt to reconnect and get a safe feeling together.

3. Independent counseling starting soon and marriage counseling commencing the first week of December.

4. Total transparency. This means that we both have access to each others phone passwords, email accounts, computers etc. I guarantee NOTHING will be accomplished if no contact is not maintained. Total transparency is needed to rebuild our trust of one another as an initial and paramount ingrediant to our attempt at further reconciliation.


This separation has made me strong. With or without you I will make it. However, I have never respected, loved and been so attracted to a woman in my life as much as you. Despite the last 6 months and all that has transpired I want our marriage and you.

This letter represents a few of my boundaries. I don't think my heart can tolerate a false recovery and as long as you maintain an attractive escape route back to OM and/or Calgary you can't truly be committed to enduring the very real and inevitable pain and withdrawal stages of recovery.

I feel good about myself and my actions since our separation. I remain committed to you and my vows to you. I have not faltered. I am confidant in what I am doing and where I am going and I want you to come along with me to a brighter future TOGETHER. I have read of MANY instances of forgiveness and marital reconciliation beyond my wildest notions. WE can make it. I want to take pride in what we achieve without any lingering guilt or compromise.

I appreciate your time and consideration of this very important manner. Regardless of the outcome, I will be proud that I stood by you and fought for our marriage. I am doing all I can to save US. Though my guidelines may seem tough or rigid I believe I have US as it's primary concern. Adhering to these boundaries IS the first step. We've a long ways to go but I have every confidence in YOU and that it CAN be done...but only TOGETHER.


Your loving husband,
Mr. M.M. Good


I see now that her apartment is in Calgary and you appear to be in a different town. Tough to spend time together the next 6 weeks that way. I think it may be alright if you just get her home and giving of notice to apartment complex for end of November. Push for 3 months...Nov through Jan 31...that should give you enough time to get her back on board or not. You don't have to get and unlimited time period. If she's home...you've got your chance. Just need more than one month.

Mr. Wondering

Well, i sent her the letter and have received no reply.

Dead silence.

I'm a little concerned that i've scared her off. On the other hand, what did i have to lose anyways.

I feel bad for her. She seems so confused and unhappy. I just can't wrap my head around what it is that is holding her back so vigilantly.

I've been considering calling her to guage a response.
Is this a terrible idea or should i just let her continue to do her thing? I doubt she even read my letter or considered the plan for reconciliation.

This sucks.

You just let it ride. You have responded to her. You have offerred her a path back. She will have to think about it and she will have to decide IF she is serious. You see it cost her nothing to ask you, and her terms were that it would cost her nothing for you to take the risk.

You have now responded with what it WILL cost her. My bet is that right now it seems to be more than she can pay, but with time that may change.

So my advice...let it ride. The ball is in her court.

God Bless,

JL