The reason why many people make poor choices in marriage?

"People love the person according to what they WANT them to really be, not for who they really are"

He said that is why many marriages fail. A person will marry someone with a shady history, or who is controlling, mean, drinking problems, drugs, has adulterer signs......based on them being different later (them changing), when in actuality....what you see is what you get.

What exactly are these "adulterer signs"?

Apart from the obvious things (they cheat on you before you're M'd, they cheated on someone else to be with you, etc.), what exactly counts as "adulterer signs"?

In my case, I had a steady relationship with my GF for almost two years before she went away to study - and within weeks she was engaging in SF with another student. Did wonders for my self-esteem, particularly as she (1) told me she didn't want to engage in SF until M'd, (2) she was a virgin at the time. But I still ended up marrying her. So in my case, the "adulterer" signs were clearly there, but I ended up ignoring them, something I regret now.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is if we're too involved in a R to take on the clear and definite adulterer signs, what really is the possibility of us considering the more subtle ones?

I personally would like to know what I should have been looking for before my GF at the time went away to study. Had I known, I might have ended the R right there and then before it got any more serious, and avoided the heartaches later on. I do have a fair idea of one or two though - the tendency to choose personal gain over honesty being one of them.

Wow.

Sums it up, really. When I got together with my ex, he was a young, heavy drinker who had no qualms about taking his friend's girlfriend off him (me - not that I was guiltless, either!).

Now he's a forty year old alcoholic who has no qualms about leaving his family for a younger woman.

In ten year's time, he'll either be dead, or still heavily drinking with someone who he had no qualms about leaving OW #1 for!

Nothing changes (unless you change yourself).

Alph.

I think all cases are different. You cant see things all the time, but signs usually do appear at some point about a persons personality.

Dr. Phil made this statement when he was talking to this young lady whose boyfriend cheated on her all the time......in her case she was trying to hang onto him. Dr. Phil didnt understand and suggested that he may never change. He then dug a little deeper with the girl and found out that this guy had cheating tendancies when she met him. I think he lied about another g/f or something that he had at the time they met. She married this guy anyhow, now she is suffering the consequences.

"People love the person according to what they WANT them to really be, not for who they really are"


This struck me from a different vantage point.

My marriage almost FAILED because I spent years trying to make my H into who I wanted him to be, not accepting him for who is was. I tried to DISRESPECTFULLY PERFECT him. He has his faults and weaknesses as we all have. I sometimes feel CRAZY in having assumed that the way I am and the way I think is the RIGHT way to be. I continue to struggle with this tendency.

His means of dealing with feeling put down by me for so many years was certainly WRONG. However, the FOW did ACCEPT him. It took him LEAVING me for me to realize how WONDERFUL he is...

Now that he is no longer a WAYWARD..he's basically the same person...

ManinMotion........your sign was when she was you g/f and she cheated on YOU right off the bat. You still married her.......you fell in love with what you wanted your g/f to be, not who she actually was. Someone who would cheat/have an affair.

This is kind of a twist on the theory of Dr. Harville Hendrix who says that some people choose their spouses based on their negative qualities, not their positive ones. This choice is made subconsciously and reflects the subconscious desire to re-create an unresolved conflict from childhood with the intention of solving it this time around.

I think you missed my point. I fell in love with her BEFORE she cheated on me that first time. I would therefore like to know what are these "adulterer signs" I should have been looking out for before that first A, the signs that would have indicated to me that she would eventually cheat on me.

I do know now that I made a mistake deciding to continue the R after she cheated - the signs were pretty definite then!! But she really wanted to stay with me, and I was really in love with her at the time - and I guess we overlooked the character flaw that led to her cheating in the first place.

This thread does raise another question too - if the point of Dr. Phil's commentary was to tell us to avoid getting M'd to someone with adulterous tendencies, what does that say for us who are already married to (ex)cheaters and are trying to recover our M's? Should we even try recovering them, knowing that our S has demonstrated those "adulterer signs"? What hope is there really for us?

Ding, Ding, you got it, HIKER...

For my situation, that is...

My H and I actually went to a Hendrix Marriage Workshop many, many years ago...

My H is a lot like my F in many ways...positives and negatives...I was going to FIX my alcoholic F...YUCK...

Learned this in my Individual Therapy...

ManinMotion.....we werent even talking about the love stage....we are talking about going to the next level MARRIAGE. After your g/f cheated on you, the best thing to have done is to leave her alone. YOU decided to go ahead and marry her after that HUGE red flag. This is what Dr. Phil was talking about. PRE-marriage signs....not necessarily signs while dating or the love stage. You still had the option to let her go, you didnt.

Part for her reasons for cheating that first time (and for the second) were that the opportunity arose to do so without my knowing about it. This opportunity could have easily arisen after we were M'd instead of before, for example: if she'd postponed her studies. I'm looking for the signs that would have told me that she was the kind of person who would have eventually taken advantage of an opportunity like that, if and when it arose. If I'd noticed those signs, I would have likely pulled out of the relationship before her first A took place, or at least decided if I really wanted to continue the relationship, knowing the possible dangers. At it was, I was caught completely unawares.

I understand what you are saying to a point ManInMotion.....but, cutting it off before marriage would have been the thing to do. That was the big step. You forgave her, and she probably figured she could do it again later and you would forgive again.

How many A's did your W have during your marriage??? Im willing to bet it was more than one.......please correct me if Im wrong.

(oops never mind.....I read it was 1)

Are you sure that is all? Did you see any red flags the 2nd time? Did she tell you? or did you find out on your own? When someone says they had an affair because they thought they could get away with it......that is a huge red flag. That is a scarey, terrible statement to make.

I doubt that she looked at it that way. I believe that she was very happy that I decided to continue our relationship, and eventually (over 3 years later) decided to tie the knot with her.



She says that is all. I've not gotten to the point that I fully believe that answer. It's quite possible however that she's told me everything, simply because the opportunity for someone else to pursue a relationship with her during those years prior to that first A simply wasn't there.



Only in hindsight <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. The lack of openness, for example. Hints of dishonesty, or trying to "protect" me by being dishonest...



She eventually told me, when our M was really coming apart.



I don't think it was the only reason, but it certainly contributed to her continuing both As. And yes, it's a scary statement, but not as scary as when she told me that at the start of the A she really did not consider the consequences of her actions at all.

Thanks for answering my questions ManInMotion. I was in the same boat that is sounds like you are in......I forgave my EX (notice EX) for at least 2 affairs. I started suspecting a 3rd one (red flags).....I end up divorced and later find out I wasnt crazy. The guy she said was a friend going thru marital problems like we were, ended up being her married b/f for 4yrs .

I'm hoping that my M does not end up in that way <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. I know I might have made a mistake those many years ago, but I don't believe that walking away now is the best way to make things right. She says she's committed to recovering our M, and I would like to do so as well (even though some days I just want to run away as fast as possible). I've made it clear though that part of that recovery would involve working on *why*, i.e. the character flaw(s) that led to her bad decisions.

Thats good that you are trying to save your marriage ManInMotion......I wanted to save mine to be honest....even after 3 affairs. My EX filed and wanted the divorce. I guess she wanted to be with OM, since he promised to divorce and be with her. She started coming out of her fog, when she realized the OM wasnt gonna leave his W.....well, by then....my love bank was empty. We divorced and I have since moved on. My EX recently broke up with OM (from what my son says)......he never left his W.

MIM - Until your wife commits to a proper recovery ie not the shell of recovery your every post indicates, the probability of her cheating again is extreem. I'd say it was a certainty.

I wouldn't say that she's not committed. I think she is. It's just that we have a lot of disagreements and misunderstandings about the way to handle the recovery of our M, and we're still struggling to find a way to settle those disagreements without LBing.

MIM - Your wife won't even let you kiss her. Fine by me if you wanna kid yourself. I have read your posts on the recovery board for 12 months. I am not jumping to any rash conclusions.

It's your life and marriage.

Here's one example of why we have so much trouble:

We've both decided that we don't want to do MC here for privacy reasons - yes, I know that's a problem, but public exposure of her A would be an even bigger problem to deal with at this time.

Therefore...

My approach to recovery:
1. Read, read, READ as much as I can about the process.
2. Take part in as many discussions as I can about it here, particularly with those who are experiencing succesful recoveries.
3. Try to share some of the ideas I've come across with her and discuss them.
4. Try to put many of the good ideas I come across into action.
5. Use the MB books as a reference for any decisions taken about our M.


Her approach:
1. Read only when she has time to do so (translation: everything else under the sun gets done first).
2. Do what she thinks feels right at the time.
3. Don't share or discuss ideas with anyone, because it's not their problem (she doesn't like me participating in these forums, for example).
4. Assume that she knows how I feel about things and act accordingly.

At one time I tried to play MC for our M (I was doing the research and she wasn't), but I gave up that job recently and I'm now concentrating on myself and trying to be the best partner I can be in this M. I realised that I could no longer play that role when I started to hear comments from her about doing things only because I forced / persuaded / told her to do them.

Unfortunately though, I think that I still see a number of those "personality signs" that I now associate with someone who can get themselves involved in an A, so I still remain concerned about the long-term prospects for our M.