Hi,
I'm currently in plan B, but my WH is making me crazy *still*.
I have full legal and physical custody with visitation at my discretion, per our LSA. He sees the kids for 2-3 hours on Saturday mornings, depending on his schedule. He also usually has Sunday and sometimes Monday off, and I have always been willing to have him see them anytime on those days. However, he recently told our son that his next day off wasn't until the 6th of November. He lied. He just took 2 days off to go away with OW. Now he has left a message via his Mom that he wants to watch them on Wednesday night while I go out. I had originally thought that this 'arrangement' might work out, as I wouldn't have to pay a babysitter as much, but now I'm just torn as to what to do.
I guess my problem with it is, why should he see his kids when it suits him, rather than when it's best for them? Am I being mean/selfish/?? If he watches them on Wed night, he will see them for an hour before they go to bed, and I'm sure that he will consider that he has 'seen' them for this week. Sigh...I'm tempted to just *not* let him see them to make him see what divorce will really be like. (I'm leaving the State when we do...)

Any input?

b3d,

Yes you are being mean/selfish AND RIGHTLY SO! Don't let your anger cloud your judgement. What you feel and what you do, can be two totally different things. (Try to keep that seperate if you can) You can and should be angry that he lied to your son. And you can and should be angry that he is trying to rearrange the schedule to suit his needs. But does that mean you should not let the kids see their father? Should the kids loose out because he has hurt/angered you? If he would rather spend two days away with the OW than spend time with his son, well that is his choice/loss right? Believe me someday it will come back to bite him in the a$$.

YOU need to decide what is best for YOUR kids.
How will affect YOUR kids if they knew you were angry at their father and therefore wouldn't let them see him because it didn't suit you? Will they hold you responsible? Would they be angry with you?
Or...How will it affect them to know YOU wanted them to see their dad as often as possible only to find out that HE lied to spend time with someone else? That HE chose not see them at certain times because HE was to busy for them. Eventually, someday they will put two and two together and it won't be pretty for him. (This I speak from experience) Kids are very smart!

My advise to you is to really, really think about what is good for THEM!

Also, I hope your keeping a journal of all these events.

good luck,

MB

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Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer but wish we didn't
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Thanks MB
I am just struggling to get a balance between having a set schedule, and allowing him to manipulate everything to suit himself (and me wanting to offset the cost of babysitting also). The kids are little- 6 and 2, and while my son is definitely aware of what is going on, he wasn't seeing his Dad very often before we split anyway (only on Sundays, and then it was only with me, not alone with him). I don't want to be seen as the 'bad guy', but I feel like much of the time he is spending with them is a token effort, to make him feel less guilty, than a real desire to spend time with them. I wonder how things are going to be long term, and I'd rather they *know* that they only see him on Sat. mornings, than get their hopes up.
I'm not really angry with him over this- disappointed, hurt, shocked even, that he would choose someone he has known for 2 months over his own children. The kids won't know about whether or not they 'would' have seen him tomorrow night, if I decide not to have him watch them, as I'm communicating via his Mom, and they don't know it's even an option at this point. It does suit me to have him watch them, as I'd really like a 'night off', but I'm not sure it's the best thing for them...
I am keeping a journal, including time I know he *could* have spent with them, and the times he calls to talk to them.
I like your quote by the way...

b3b,

I haven't read much on your sitch, but I'm in a similar spot. All I can say about this is that it is always best for your kids to spend as much time as their father has to offer, as long as it does not upset their schedule too much. Hey, all mommies need a evening off now and then. It could be good for you.

Your sitch reminds me of how things were between WH and me last year, when we originally separated. Now that he is no longer in an active affair, I have been able to assign a schedule of visitation and he has stuck to it. He's really much more involved with DS during that time now too. They go places together, like the park or a local beach and just hang out. WH is probably trying to fill in time, as well as have leisure fun with him. It's fun time with daddy, and that's okay, as long as my son is happy with it.

Also, WH calls to speak to son nearly every night at the same time; my son has taken to not answering the phone most of the time now, so I don't know how much longer that will last. I have let DS make the decision of talking to WH in the evening on the phone, and he usually chooses not. I don't pick up the phone either, so his calls go unanswered. You kids will make the best decision for themselves once they know what that is, but give them the time to do it. That has been my experience, take what you will.

It sounds like you are doing okay otherwise; I hope so, I know what you are going through. Hang in there.

Hi,
I need some help. WH left a message with MIL tonight that he wanted to take the kids to 'his place'. I ended up not allowing him to see the kids tonight as planned, because he said that he wants 'her' to meet them, and what's the big deal? I left him a voicemail saying that I thought it was highly inappropriate, and that they should not be exposed to their amoral behaviour, but he's still pushing.
Please, someone with a better grip on reality (my mind is reeling over this), give me a good 'script' to give him the message? I know it's wrong for the kids to be around her, but I just can't think straight right now to come up with a good response...

ok, here is a script for you:

NO!

and if that doesn't work, try:

HE11 NO!!

Short, sweet and to the point!

Yeah! Thanks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I am concerned that he will take them to his place anyway, so unfortunately, I think it may be time for him not to see them unless it is at his parents' house. I know him, he's sneaky, and he'll just have her meet them behind my back.
I exposed to her father and step-mom tonight. They were very supportive, and said that they most definitely do not approve, but short of that, there was little they could do.

b3d,

I'd have to go with HE11 NO! Followed up by, "Why would I want our children exposed to your adultry? Why would I want to send teh message that M means nothing and it is alright to have another on the side when you are M'd? Why would I want to send that kind of message to our children?

Do you want our DS or DD thinking it is alright for them to commit adultry? That it is alright for their spouses to commit adultry? Do you want our children exposed to STDs?

Then "Are You Nuts!" That should work.

Interesting thread.

My attny. has asked me to research sources that give light to it is in the child's best interest not to spend time with the OW. More specifically have overnights with WH & OW.

Has anyone read specific findings on how this impacts the kids? I know it is hard to prove meanwhile, it is easy to prove my anger and resentment which could be twisted to 'jealousy' in court.

I'd appreciate a point in the right direction.

Tell him when he wants to start acting like a father he can see them. I am no always adverse to kids meeting someone new in their parents life... but it has to be after the parents have made the final decisions as to what is happening with the family AND the leaglities are all done. Sounds like your H is a putz thinking it is okay to let the HO around his children.

Well, I haven't checked in for a couple of days. Big news!

My H came home on Monday night! I called OW's father and step-mom on Sunday night to expose. It wasn't nearly as bad as I expected it to be. They were very kind, and told me that they didn't approve of the R either. They met him the previous weekend when WH and OW went away for the weekend.

WH called me monday morning, saying he was really sick. He dropped off some insurance papers for me to fill out, threw up, and then left. He called a little later to say that he was at the hospital- had been throwing up all night, and was on and IV + a shot of phenergan for the nausea. He said he was OK and he was going to drive to work. He was really out of it, and I was worried about him, so I went to see him.

Later that day, he met me and the kids for dinner (yep, broke plan B as I was worried he might take them to her house), then came over to carve pumpkins with the kids and hang out. He left after a couple of hours, saying he was tired and he'd call me later. He called at around 10, asking why I had called her dad. He seemed relieved, not angry as I had expected him to be. I told him that I love him, and that I was willing to do whatever it took to save our marriage and/or be able to tell our kids that I did everything I could. He said that he had been thinking about it for a couple of weeks, and that he wasn't sure that I would want him back. He asked if he could come home, and I said yes, so long as he was willing to have NC with her, go to counselling and to be sober. He agreed, and said he'd call me when he was leaving. An hour later (the longest hour of my life!) he called, and came home.

Things have been good. He has been H&O about contact with her- he sent a text to her re. some things left at her place (my pillow <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />) and a framed picture of the kids. Her reply was pretty nasty, as he hadn't asked how she was doing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> She is dropping the stuff off at his work, he won't see her (he'll be at home).

He has agreed to counselling, and is being relatively affectionate and sweet to me and the kids. SF is GOOD! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I guess I should start posting on the recovery board for support...not really sure what to expect, other than withdrawal and a bit of a bumpy road. I'm cautiously hopeful.
Thanks to everyone who encouraged me and offered support and much needed advice.

Will he agree to completely and totally end contact? Will he send a nc letter?

Yes, he says he has NO feelings for her, that he made a huge mistake, and living with her was a/ using her and b/ really awful <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> He now sees her (his words) as the homewrecker she is.
I will talk to him about the NC letter tonight. I think he will...he may see it as me being 'controlling' and not being willing to trust him. He says that the text was the last time he will contact her ever. He is showing me his cell phone call/text records, and seems to be doing all the right things. I know I need to be careful and I am. This has been such a major learning experience for me- I know now I will be OK if he doesn't want to do his end of the recovery work. Sad, but OK.

Hi b3d- NO SF UNTIL TESTED FOR STD's!!!! He's been sleeping with a w***e- who knows who SHE'S been sleeing with!! Please please please!!! Get tested!!

Was that loud enough?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Also, who cares if you're "controlling and not willing to trust him." Is he trustworthy at this time??? NO!! Look what he did!!! Trust has to be earned. I am going through this myself and each little piece (like my BH just gave me the code to check our voicemail, he had taken over it because of calls to/from OM) has to be earned and cherished!

Do not let him brainwash you into the "let's just forget all about it and move on" thing. YOU get to call the shots. Absolutely you will move on if he can do the things necessary. HE has to do it. You did not do this to your family.

Whew, kind of a rant <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />, but having been the WW (now with the hard-earned F)- this is necessary for your recovery. Just like with children- there needs to be consequences for actions.

b3d,

Congrats along with a word of warning. Accepting him back should not be a solution to HIS problem.WS's that are unconditionally welcomed home with NO repercussions will head back out the door from whence they came with very little prompting and much less thought about their actions.

I would much rather see a WS put up in a M supporting relative's home than go directly from OP's bed to your home bed.

OK, so it didn't last long. Withdrawal hit him hard yesterday, and he called me last night to tell me that he thinks he loves her. UGH. It was like a punch to the stomach. She called him, and he took her call, and of course all the feelings came flooding back. I called her Dad again to tell him what was going on. WH did come home, and we talked, and he ended up deciding that he was willing to do what it takes to get through this. Said that thinking about leaving again was a temporary 'lapse in judgement'. He told me he loves me, and that he's coming home tonight. I did ask him if he was going to see her today, and he said no. He called me a couple of times just to chat, and told me again that he loves me. I am on pins and needles though...any advice for me? Should I be plan A-ing with no R talk until the withdrawal clears? I am hoping to get a counselling appt set up for next week- not sure we can afford the Harleys, but not sure we can afford *not* to counsel with them. I'm afraid of going down the 'bad counselling' road with him, only for him to say 'see, I told you it wouldn't work'
I guess a 'bumpy road' (above) was a bit of an understatement.

Just spoke to WH. He's at work, and hasn't spoken to her. He's feeling really sad about breaking up with her, and wants to see her. He says he's not going to, but...
Anything I can say or do to make this easier on him? He says he doesn't think his fellings are going to change, but I guess he sees enough good in not contacting her to avoid doing so.
I'm in limbo land, waiting for the other shoe to drop. I know I'll be OK if he decides to be with her, heartbroken, but OK.
I just want my H back...

b3d, this sounds like a typical withdrawal. You will just have to ride it out. Here is a link about withdrawal that may help you both through this. Hang in there and be as supportive as possible.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2686313

If your WS at any time inside of 4 weeks of withdrawal starts declaring hate for OW or love for you, frankly I would be deeply suspicious he's had an OW fix.

So, he was home for 4 days. Wednesday of last week he told me he was in love with her (she had called him at work to tell him the same). Wednesday night he told me that it was a 'lapse in judgement', but by Thursday he was totally withdrawn. Friday he told me he was going out with her, and he left after seeing the kids on Saturday. Ugh. So, I went back to plan B on Monday, after dropping off all his stuff in boxes at his work.
Today he called from her phone, saying he needed to speak to me urgently. I called his Dad, and found out that he had been fired from his job. We (his parents and I) had been talking about the possibility of this happening again earlier this week, and I had even contacted my lawyer about the effect of him being fired/quitting on child/spousal support obligations.
He came to the house tonight and wanted to talk. I told him that I thought it would be a good idea for him to consider going back to rehab, and that none of this would have happened if he hadn't been drinking. He said he needs a couple of days to figure things out, and he's maybe going to go up to his parents house tomorrow.
I want so badly for us to work things out, and I'm hoping that he chooses to be sober, but I don't want to risk him moving right back in here. I'm not even sure that he's going to stay here (in this city)- he won't find a job here that pays anywhere near as much as he was making. What a mess.
Edited to add, he was in alcohol withdrawal all of last week also. (sweats, cravings, depression, insomnia). I think he sees his choice as her=drinking, me=sobriety. Tough choice for an alcoholic.