My story...My H's friend from school lost her husband last year to a car accident. My H went to her side to consoul her, of course with my encouragement, after 2 months of crying on his shoulder, it seems my H decided that after all of their years in a friendship, he wanted more. Apparently she didn't at first (so she says), but over the course of several months, she must have decided differently!Needless to say, an A began...a VERY emotional one too! I became pregnant, after 1 year of trying, we ended up pregnant, one month later my H decided that he wasn't happy anymore. He moved into his brother's house, lots of freedom since the brother is always out of town. There were days I didn't even speak to him, didn't see him for weeks at a time, but he seemed to be enjoying his new "found" life. He went to counseling, but not consistently. This was a 2nd marriage for both of us. When I went into the hospital, 2 months premature to deliver my newest son, Dylan, I invited my husband into the delivery. The very cold person he was!, don't know what I was thinking, but thought that since this was his 1st child I should not deny him the blessing of his son's birth. Dylan spent ONLY 2 weeks in the hospital & when it was time to come home, I gave my husband the option of coming home with us so we could all become a family. He did, but it was awful. We slept together & it was like a 10 foot pole between us, no affection what so ever. He gave me a kiss goodnight & goodbye & that was about it. After 3 months of that crap he left again. He was miserable & making me feel sad all of the time. It was like he didn't care about me at all, much less all of the pain he was putting me through! He admitted that he was still speaking with her on a daily basis & he couldn't help the way he felt. He stayed away for about 3 weeks, living from hotel to motel, spending $$ like it was water. I guilted him into coming home yet once again & he did. That didn't last either! For the next 6 weeks he was back to charging rooms on the cc & driving us into more debt. During that time we spent quite a bit of time together. We enjoyed dinners out & time together. He admitted that he had put some space between his friend & himself & wasn't sure what he wanted. I should note...through all of this year's rollarcoaster he has never made a decision either way. So...I was waiting like a fool for him to finally make a decision. He did! After 6 weeks away he came over one evening & told me he was sorry for what he had done & wanted to come home! I allowed it yet once again, although I was reluctant to! He has now been home for 7 weeks. Assures me that he is trying to work on his issues. He is in C by himself right now & has not had contact with OW in several weeks now. I am having lots of difficulty...We do not sleep together & when I ask him to join me, he says that he isn't ready. He seems to be trying to deal with his feelings & isn't ready to deal with the marriage yet...should I be alarmed? He doesn't even say he loves me, admits to it when I ask him, but that is about it. In the last 3 days I haven gotten him to respond to my "I love yous", which is more than I was getting in the past. Am I expecting too much too early? When I cry like a baby from all of the pain that I feel he doesn't even show any response. I would get more from a stranger walking down the street than I get from him. Does it change? Shouldn't he be trying to rekindle? & wouldn't it help both of us? & our marriage? My counselor says that he may not be a multi-tasker, so maybe he needs to deal with one thing at a time? I feel so alone. We got into a heated argument the other night & he told me that he is trying very hard. Not hard enough for me I said. He has destroyed so much...family, friends & ME! I asked him to attend a "last minute" Retrouvaille this weekend; definitely short notice but I did ask him last night. He said he wasn't sure if he was comfortable with that yet?? I ask myself...Maybe he isn't even sure if he wants the marriage?? Any thoughts? Karen [color:"blue"] [/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

((( Karen )))

Just wanted to welcome you to Marraige Builders. You have come to the right place to heal yourself and hopefully, your marriage.

I know how much it hurts and wanted to let you know that you are being heard. As I am not an expert, I have no real advice to give you. I am sure some very knowledgeable and helpful people will be here soon to help you.

Bless you dear.

Sincerely, Carnation

(((( Karen))))))

I'm s0 s0rry.

START HERE <-------- Click here...

Y0u have al0t 0f reading t0 d0. Read all the articles here at MB, and keep p0sting.

His behavi0r is c0mpletely n0rmal f0r a WS. He is g0ing th0ugh w/drawals and is d0ing al0t 0f f0ggy thinking.

Hang in there.

~ Marsh

Marsh & Carnation,
Thanks for your support. I have certainly been reading a lot of information & have found it very useful. There are days that I just want to "give up", like..maybe this is suppose to end like this, am I just fooling myself; stupid things like that! I just wish that he would see how lucky he really is, I wouldn't do this for "just" anybody - he must realize soon that he has one heck of a wife that loves him! Thanks again. Karen

Karen,

Y0ur feelings are m0re than understandable. Unf0rtunately, if he's like m0st WS it will be a while before he sees the A as the stupid and evil thing it is. The process is like a r0llarc0aster ride.... f0r b0th 0f y0u.

Be certain that he's REALLY cut 0ff the A. It w0uld be a g00d idea if he sent a N0 c0ntact letter t0 the 0W. 0nce NC has been established, it will take 3-8 weeks f0r him t0 get thr0ugh withdrawals. In the mean while y0u do a PLAN A. <-------- Click there.

Als0 here's s0me g00d advice fr0m a p0ster named WAT.

To new betrayed spouses. I hope you are fortunate to find this site early - which means before you have a chance to go too far down the wrong path in dealing with your new challenge.

I'll offer you what I call WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses. Think of it sorta like affair First Aid, or a life preserver - not the answers, just something to help in the initial confusion.

This fills a void I think that exists for guidance in the early stages of an affair when most are caught off guard and feel hopeless. This comes from my personal experience and from the descriptions of many other betrayed spouses I have read about for many months. I believe this to be consistent with Marriage Builders principles, but I acknowledge I am an amateur and no one should act on this advice alone.

OK, here it is:

WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses

Rule 1: Don't try to make sense out of what's happening. You are not dealing with rational people, so your normal thought processes won't work. This is exactly why you're confused. Your spouse will act as if he/she has been abducted by aliens and had their brains scrambled. Just watch and don't take any of this personally. If you can do it calmly, confront your spouse with any solid evidence you have of the affair, but expect denials and lies beyond belief.

Rule 2: Don't be in a hurry. There is little, if anything, you can directly do to separate the affairees. They have to do this on their own. The affair will end. To hasten it's end, do not interfere with it. The fact is that there may be almost nothing you can do right now to make it better but there is a WHOLE LOT you can do to make it worse. On the other hand, there is a LOT you can do indirectly to compel the affairees to end the affair on their own. Read this post and all its responses: On revealing the affair to the light of day

Rule 3: All snooping is good and necessary - but be ready for an ANGRY reaction if your snooping is detected. Refer to Rule 1. Think NOT of snooping as disrespectful spying, but as necessary affair research. If caught, you will be accused of "invading my privacy!" Respond, "No, I was revealing your secrecy." In some cases, contacting the OP may be beneficial, but in other cases, a disaster. Read this post and all it's responses: On contacting the OP

Rule 4: Don't beat yourself up for "causing" the affair. You are partly responsible for creating the environment which made the affair possible, and you need to examine yourself critically to see what changes you need to make, but you are NOT responsible for your spouse's decision to have an affair. Nonetheless, your wayward spouse will likely accuse you of all sorts of misdeeds, rewrite your marital history exaggerating trivial issues, and shift blame to you in their attempt to lessen their guilt and justify their decisions. In affairs, culprits abound except in the mirror.

Rule 5: This will likely be the worst experience of your life. You are a prime candidate for depression, so see a doctor if you feel like you're having difficulty coping. You may need anti-depressants. You are also a prime candidate for your own affair. DON'T DO IT!

Rule 6: Do not recruit your spouse's family in an attempt to "help." If they ask questions, answer honestly, but in the long run, do not expect their support - if you get it anyway, consider it a bonus. Blood IS thicker than mud. Read this post and all its responses: On involving/informing the WS's family

Rule 7: Do not expect too much right away from the wayward spouse even if they have already ended the affair. It may feel like you are they only one who is trying to save the marriage. You are not a doormat, just a loving, faithful spouse.

Rule 8: You will be told by well intending "advisors" to "Throw him/her out!!!" or, "Say good bye and don't look back!!" Instead of following this advice, learn everything you can from books, websites like this one, and counselors about the ways to find the silver lining in this cloud. Seek advice as soon as possible.

Rule 9: In ongoing affairs, if your spouse's OP is also married, consider informing the OP's spouse if you know their identity. The purpose for this is to reveal the affair on the other side which may motivate the OP to end it. This should not be done without guidance. Read this post and all its responses: On informing OP's spouse of the affair

Rule 10: Your situation is not likely to be unique. The actions and statements of affairees are surprisingly similar. You can gain understanding and support from just about anybody else who has experienced an affair.

WAT


Keep p0sting here, Karen.

~ Marsh

From Penalty Kill

Karen, I am sorry that you have to be here.

I have a question for you. How does your H interact with your son? Is he a supportive parent, ie does he help you with the feeding, changing, getting up at night that a newborn requires? Is he affectionate with your son?

Anything else I say will depend upon your answer.

Take care.

Marsh,
Thanks for the "rules", I am happy to say that for most of them I'm doing ok, and actually did end up getting lots of support from his family. His mother & sister both supported me through all of this & actually didn't even converse with him at all! Pretty impressive, especially because blood is thicker than mud. I think it was such a shock to all close to us & such a BIG mistake on his part that everyone still has a hard time swallowing this one; especially ME! Patience is certainly a tough nut to crack! I've always been a go-getter & when I wanted something bad enough...I didn't have to wait too long because I was in control of getting it! This is way out of control & out of my reach that I'm on un-chartered waters. We continue to sleep in seperate rooms right now, going on 2 months. He continues to go to his counselor & apparently is not comfortable with sleeping with me. Isn't there a time soon after NC is in place that I should begin to see him mover closer? Please advice & thanks again. Karen

Penalty Kill,
Thanks for interest! He actually does very well with Dylan. He has a path worn from the door to Dylan upon arrival home from work. He isn't doing much along the lines of changing, etc., but is willing to feed him & certainly does give him a lot of "play" time. Actually I get very jealous of how much affection he gives to Dylan & NOT to me. It's almost like he has all of this affection bottled up when he gets home & since I'm the last one he wants to use it on & the NC continues with the OW, Dylan gets it all! I have two other boys from a previous marriage, 18 & 14 yrs. The 14 yr old & my H are doing very well together. They cut wood, take drives to Home Depot, etc. & seem to do even better than they did years ago. We have been together for 9 years & married for 2 1/2. Hope this information helps you with your advice. Thanks again. Karen

I'm glad y0u have his family 0n y0ur side.

It's been 7 weeks since he has c0ntacted the 0W, right? Are y0u sure he hasn't talked t0 her at all in th0se seven weeks? B/c NC is VERY imp0rtant. He's g0t t0 get through w/drawals bef0re y0u can start t0 fill up his l0ve banks again. Did y0u d0 the em0ti0nal needs questi0naire yet? If n0t, print tw0 c0pies 0ut, ask him t0 fill 0ut 0ne and y0u fill 0ut the 0ther 0ne. It is imp0rtant t0 understand what his m0st imp0rtant needs and then try t0 meet them. It is meeting these needs that will help him fall back in l0ve w/ y0u. It usually takes 3 to 8 weeks t0 get through w/drawals. But it can take l0nger. After he gets through that, it will be a while bef0re he gets thr0ugh his f0ggy thinking. And then it will take time t0 fill his LB.

Get His Needs Her needs, and Surviving an Affair. Als0 read up 0n L0ve Busters and make sure t0 av0id them.

I'm s0rry that this can't be fixed quickly. Try t0 f0cus 0n bec0ming a better Y0u, and 0ne y0ur baby. He's g0ing t0 have t0 w0rk 0ut his stuff himself.

~ Marsh

Marsh,
It hasn't been 7 weeks for him with NC. During a conversation last week he admitted to me that he did speak with her 3 weeks ago, but assured me that he hasn't since. I "think" I believe him, but am apprehensive into believing a lot of what he says. He did say that his counselor commented on how well he felt he was doing, especially with the NC. Do I work on EN right now or just leave him to be for the time being? I don't push, I pretty much let him go about his business. I fear though that if I do not give him something that he will not see the reasons to really emotionally come back to me. A friend of mine, one of which has never been in a situation like this, says I should be me..that is who he fell in love with in the 1st place. But..I guess "me" in the beginning was fulfilling his EN because it was new to us & fun. I feel like when I try to be too much like that person that I am pushing him away! Yikes, this stinks! Thanks Karen

0k, Karen, y0u are g0ing t0 have t0 find 0ut whether he has REALLY cut 0ff c0ntact w/ her 0r n0t. Sn00p. Y0u must find 0ut f0r certain b/c if they haven't than y0u must break it up. Ask him t0 send a NC letter... there is an example 0f 0ne 0n this site s0mewhere. But, make sure y0u appr0ve 0f it first, and send it t0gether.

If what he says is true...... that it has been 3 weeks than he's n0t even thr0ugh w/drawals yet. S0, in answer t0 y0ur questi0n, I w0uldn't expect him t0 move t0wards y0u yet.

Trying t0 meet s0me 0f his EN is n0t pushing. 0bviously, y0u w0n't be able t0 meet his need f0r SF yet, but y0u can meet his 0ther needs.

I d0n't think y0u sh0uld change wh0 y0u are t0 bec0me s0me0ne different. But we all can d0 things that will impr0ve 0urselves. Plan A is really f0r Y0U!

This is Pep's Carr0t and stick

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


Here's a p0st by an0ther p0ster that may help y0u understand plan A better...

DOs

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP

And yes, Karen, adultery stinks!

BTW are y0u 0n ADs? Y0u might want t0 think ab0ut it. Many here have f0und them very helpful.

~ Marsh

Marsh,
I've printed the DOs & DON'Ts & I will keep them in my purse as my reminder. I did print the questionnarie but haven't asked him to fill it out yet. I will work on that tonight. It seems like everytime we talk about "things", it is a chore for him, he is very short & seems so resentful that I even discuss it right now. All I get is, "I'm doing the best I can"... Oh boy, isn't this fun! I had asked him several weeks ago about going to MC together & he hesitated, told me he would think about it! THINK ABOUT IT, are you nuts? You told me you came back to work on this marriage, that to me is crucial to making things work! So, I told him that I wanted an answer from him immediately, there was no reason to "think about it", this was our marriage & a marriage that has been in turmoil for way too long! I told him if he had a problem calling it MC, than we could just consider it...learning how to communicate because communicating for us lately is very tough. As far as the NC, I am more apt to believe that he hasn't spoken to her. I was in contact with her several times over the last year, begging & pleading with her to let my husband come home to us & that if she really sat down & thought things out she would realize that she was just using him for her own selfish reasons & once she was over the loss of her husband that someone else would come along & fill the void my husband seems to be filling for her right now. After this last time, and after 3 times prior, of his returning home, this one is different, this one he did all by himself! I'm sure she is very angry at him because she really thought that the 3rd time would be the last time & that she was holding out for the promises that he made to her. By his returning this time she has to be livid with him. She said to me once that she told him if she were in my shoes she would have never taken him back; boy doesn't that ring a bell in someone's head...then why the heck would you want that for your future? That is exactly what I asked her, she was silent. After their 20+ year friendship I'm sure that she is very hurt by his return to us. He did say that the last conversation that he had with her was very short, I would think that she is very disappointed in him; unless he is lying to me again! Who really knows, just he does & I continue to try to read him! Thanks Karen

Karen,

As a FWW, please let me give y0u s0me insight int0 what is pr0bably g0ing 0n inside his head.

He kn0ws what he did was wr0ng, alth0ugh he d0esn't appreciate h0w much pain he's caused y0u, he is extremely c0nflicted as t0 why he made the ch0ices he did, he is questi0ning himself, y0ur marriage, y0ur l0ve f0r him, EVERYTHING! Plus he is m0urning, n0t 0ver the 0W, but 0ver the FEELINGS the adultery gave him. It is very much like an addicti0n. Y0u kn0w it's wr0ng, but it feels s0 g00d that y0u have a VERY hard time quitting it. It was all a fantasy, but he d0esn't kn0w that yet. But, it will help y0u t0 kn0w it n0w. His A wasn't ab0ut y0u. It was ab0ut him. And he's g0t t0 s0rt thr0ugh it all. S0 when he says he's "D0ing the best he can." He's probably telling y0u the truth, Karen. MC is a g00d idea. Give him a while t0 think ab0ut MC and then ask him again. Be sure y0u sh0p ar0und f0r a g00d 0ne th0ugh. If y0u can aff0rd Dr. Harley, I highly rec0mmend calling him. He has w0rked miracles w/ c0uples. I think it w0uld c0st y0u $175. He is w0rth EVERY penny.

As far as the 0W g0es.... 0f c0urse she t0ld y0u if she were y0u she w0uldn't take him back. She was trying t0 plant evil seeds in y0ur mind ab0ut rec0vering y0ur marriage. She's a liar and a cheat. D0n't believe she w0uldn't take him back again if he w0uld have her. She w0uld. A are VERY addictive t0 b0th parties.

Be 0n the watch, Karen. Make sure NC is being stuck t0. It is VERY hard t0 stick w/ it, b/c the pull f0r it is s0 str0ng.

Keep reading here. Get th0se b00ks, and keep p0sting.

~ Marsh

Hi Karen, Just checking in on you. You are getting some very good advice from Marshmallow.... I love that name, by the way !!

Are you checking cell phones, computer, etc. to make sure there is NC ? You have exposed to everyone that you can think of, right ?

Hang in there - we care

Carnation

Marsh,
Thanks for putting me in his head for a bit...PLEASE get me outta there! Yikes! I'm in the process of finding a MC right now. I have calls into 4 of them so far. My whole list of questions awaits their interview. I asked H if he had decided about the Retrouvaille this weekend & he declined for right now. He set up an emergency appt. with his C on Tuesday night, after I asked him on Monday. His C told him that if he was uncomfortable with going, then he shouldn't go right now. So, he told me that last night & he also said that "I know that I am not moving along quick enough for you", "But I feel pretty good about my progress", so I thanked him for being honest, as I bit my tongue & that was the extent of the conversation. All in all I guess I really didn't think he was ready, but I was curious to see if he would take the steps to really consider it or not; I'm impressed that he did take the time. Like I said before I am pretty much leaving him alone, conversation is very simple & much about our work days, etc. I'm so afraid that I will end up growing apart from during this time period & I hope that he comes around soon! Thanks for taking the time for me. Karen

Karen,

S0rry ab0ut leading y0u int0 the dark and screwy mind 0f a WS, but I think it is imp0rtant f0r y0u t0 understand that while it l00ks as th0ugh n0thing is happening... it is. Meaning there is a great deal 0f internal thrashing g0ing 0n inside y0ur husband's head. It is a very g00d thing that he is g0ing t0 an IC.



This is a VERY g00d sign! Feel g00d ab0ut it t00.

And, yes I'm impressed that he c0nsidered Retrouvaille t00.

Karen,

Y0u tw0 can't gr0w cl0se untill he gets a little farther int0 this. He hasn't made it thr0ugh w/drawals yet. If he d0esn't feel ready yet, try t0 be patient.

Have y0u 0rdered the b00ks I suggested yesterday, yet?

* Carnati0n, thanks and I think y0ur nic is beautiful. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />*

~ Marsh

From Penalty Kill

Karen, thank you very much for explaining your family situation so well. I wasn't sure if you were a first time mother or not and how long you were married.

I am very glad to hear that your H is a good father, and that his family is supporting you through this time. Too often around here that is not the case. So you have some definite pluses in your corner.

I know that it's hard to hear, but patience is so necessary. You both have a lot of rebuilding to do, and that takes time. The self-examination he does in counseling might be painful, and he may be somewhat moody or depressed because of it, not because the A is over. It's tough to live with the consequences of your most grievous errors. Tough, but not impossible.

And now for what I see as a bit of a fly in the ointment: his counselor, who has told him that if he is uncomfortable with MC he shouldn't have to go. I'm with you: I think that counseling TOGETHER is more valuable than individual counseling by itself. And it's nice that he's comfortable with *his* progress, but he's not the only one in the marriage. After his A, you both have to progress - together. A counselor that doesn't realize this is a counselor that won't mind if you end up in divorce court.

Look, I'm also a bit of a cynic. Many counselors are not pro-marriage. And perhaps the counselor is worried that your H will stop seeing him/her if he starts MC. All that therapy can get pretty $.

So I can tell you to be patient on one hand, but I can tell you that your patience does not have to be unlimited. And I absolutely do not understand a WS that won't go to MC after all they have put their spouse through. Are you absolutely sure that there has been NC w/OW?

Finally, have you considered giving the Harleys a call? Even if your H won't participate at first, you could get a plan.

Take care.

Penalty Kill,
Thanks so much for getting back to me. The only thing that has not be agreed upon is the Retrouvaille weekend. H has agreed to go to MC & actually I'm in the process of finding one who will fit our needs. I really wish his C would see both of us..he is probably scared! he/he Actually I spoke with another C last evening & was giving him some background & asked him if he thought he was up to the challenge, he seemed to be very interested, just not sure if he is the "right" one. I'll keep looking. Did you ever call the Harleys? I am noticing little things with my H, but like I said, I'm getting really tired, it's going on 15 months now; way too long!, I want our lives back! Thanks Karen

Carnation,
Thanks for checking in. It's funny that you mention the cell phone...H actually lost his cell phone for 2 days, found it under his seat in the truck. He had to make all of his phone calls when he came from work. I could hear the messages that were left on his VM too!, no women. This thing has been exposed to EVERYONE, even people I never wanted to know; word spreads fast in a little town.
Thanks Karen

Carnataion,
Thanks for checking in on me, I need all the "checking in" that one person can request. I have exposed this A to EVERYONE, trust me!, even the ones that I wished didn't know, know! It's very humiliating! Marsh is helping me out tremendously. The advice that I am getting is very helpful. Thanks again.
Karen