Maybe your wife has ROMANTICIZED NOTIONS of life due to her FOGGINESS..

Alot of the contemporary music talks about LOVERS AS FRIENDS...which is considered a COMPLIMENT...

I actually do see MY HUSBAND as being MY BEST FRIEND..the BEST FRIEND THAT I EVER HAD..that I also have SF with....

I"m thinking on this but I don't see what your wife is saying as being ALL BAD...

BACK LATER...

J95 and MM thank you so much........i am really trying to do the right thing. everytime i think i master one aspect, another gets blown out of proportion.....

here is another situation..

I emailed her this.

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Dont worry about anything.

God is always there and i am Here.

Years from now when we are old and grey, i will turn to you, with a twinkle in my eye and say..........

I DO STILL LOVE YOU.

always...........Your Husband............................
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And also this:
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You ARE A GOOD person..........

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these were the reply i got:


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Don’t go there only God is good, and I cannot be compared to Him. That is like saying God and Satan are one. Plus I know God don’t like ugly.
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And:

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I do wish I could still be everything that is right and true to you, but sadly I am not, and I do believe that despite what happened you deserve better. I can’t make it right, I really wish I could. All I have ever wanted in life was to be happy, it was never money or riches, it was just to be happy, though it is not your fault, I don’t believe you will ever know or understand what really makes me happy. And you know what I do love and appreciate you being in my life, not in the way you think but in my own way. And I do mean what I said before that whenever you get tired of me and need to leave me I will freely let you go because I do believe you deserve better.

Lata
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anyone could you give me a fair and balanced insight.

my emotions dont make good judgement now.

Do i sit her down tonite and ask her what makes her happy?

NC wrote:

NC,

You asked if this seems normal. Well you know my story and time line and yes it is normal with by dear wife.

My wife went shopping for xmas stuff also and then we (ds5, dd2, wife and I) did up the tree. These ww like to live off the fat of us BH that have made changes and that are trying to help their wifes along.

I feel like I deserve much more also. Im not getting sh#* on, but I'm not getting as much as I want/need. Taker, taker, taker I guess.

Yesterday wasn't a good day for me and I came here for help. Today seems to be your turn for a bad day. FYI today is better for me. Nothing special happened, just a new day. My wife worked later and I took the kids out to dinner - it was pretty fun just the three of us. So - get through this bad day the best you can and please keep being the lighthouse for your sick wife. She will get better one day.

Hang in there NC

its 4 degrees today
M2L

Stop it NC. Stop the God talk, the your a good person talk. Too much pressure on her right now. Don't sit her down and ask what makes her happy. She doesn't know right now. My wife told me that her plan in life was to go to college, get a job, get m, have kids. The EA never was to be part of it. I feel like my wife thinks she is lost and it is my job to help her find her way back, but I don't want to put pressure on her right now. I think it may make her back away from going through the hard pain of what she did.

Just live your life and let her words bounce off you all the while you are being there for her to talk to. I feel like she is trying in her own way. IT IS JUST NOT FAST ENOUGH FOR US - IS IT NC?

Nope.

She doesn't know how to make herself happy, how can she tell you how to do it?

You cannot fix her, NC. Please accept that you don't have this power.

She keeps reminding you of this, but you continue to try.

Stop it.

You only have the power to change YOU.

Please consider picking up the book The Four Agreements.

It is a short book, but I believe it will help you with alot of this.

~ Marsh

Tell her, "Sure I may get tired of you from time to time (and I know you get tired of me), but I committed to be your husband for life, and I am not leaving you, so helping me understand what makes you happy would make things a lot easier for both of us in the long run." Don't sit her down and ask her what makes her happy. No need to sit back and OBSERVE and LISTEN. She will drop subtle hints that you need to pick up on, hints that you weren't picking up before that lead to your marital problems. The more and more you pick up those hints and fill up her love bank, the more she will feel love for you and all your problems will slowly fade away. It will take a lot of time and effort to get her love bank back to the romantic love threshold, but you did it before, and you can do it again. She doesn't know how loves works, and she is skeptical about falling in love again. Fortunately, you know how love works from this wonderful website, and you can trigger those feelings of love in her again.

Well, that makes two of you.

B/c she sure as hale doesn't know or understand either.

~ Marsh

NC,

Marsh and JM explained well how to be safe to be shared with and how to enforce your boundaries around yourself. Your emails clearly stated that you choose to define her...tell her who she really is...so of course you are going to be defined by her. I thought this was a her thang...and it's a you thang.

When you define others, you are disrespectful and stepping where you have no domain. When they define you, same in reverse. God's design is that he made all humans whole, complete and marvelous...from his love. Do you believe you have the right to define other people? God himself refuses to define others...he gave us inherent, constant and incomparable choice...even to choose HIM...huge respect. Why would you presume to do that which even God did not allow himself to do?

How can you speak of amends with your FWW if you yourself do not believe in them? To recognize what you did, own it and promise not to do it again...to stay aware of where your boundaries are and others' boundaries.

Respectfully.

Being safe means when you share, you are not defining others...only sharing what you are feeling, thinking, believing and perceiving. You know they are not facts, not truth...they are yours...your truth...valid because they are yours, within your domain. The more you acknowledge and stay aware of your stuff versus The Truth, the better you can see what is your FWW's stuff and not refute, persuade or reject HER truth...by confusing it with the truth.

Until you change you, your perceptions and beliefs, you will continue to have a reactive marriage, each defining the other; each responsible for what neither can control...the other's stuff...and no respect.

Your FWW is saying just this...she's sharing. She's DJing you, her and the marriage...and it sounds like that's what you do, too...so the first step is to SEE and KNOW what DJs are...what false payoff they have for you and eradicating them from your permissions list. This isn't saying you're bad or wrong or defective...I thought LOVE WAS doing this...mindreading, assumptions...didn't know that I was on the path of being right, not married. Had to get where I knew I'd rather be married.

Can you see where you feel anger or resentment as your FWW defines you...tells you what you think, feel, believe? You cannot control what she does or says...you can control what you do and say. Until you take away your permission to do and say this to her...even to think it in your thoughts, you will continue to believe that enmeshment is love...and that gets in the way of true, thriving, ownerhsip love.

Getting safe to be shared with...and safe with our sharing...is crucial to a partnership...impossible in a parentship, where we decide what our partners SHOULD or SHOULDN'T think, feel, believe or perceive. Instead of thinking, "She shouldn't say that or believe that" because it's damaging to the relationship, focus on, "Ouch...that hurt...her believing I cannot ever make her happy...hmmm...that ouch feeling is coming from my belief I CAN make her happy, mad, hurt, devastated, resentful." Good to know. Great to know our beliefs...which our feelings come from...to signal us...now, is this a valid belief, given God's design? Would he make humans with that kind of power, or do we give our power to our partners and tell them, "This is precious. Don't ever hurt me." And is that a reasonable adult belief?

Or do we have our own stuff? Knowing, owning and accepting...it's ours...not good or bad...information to us, about us...like feeling loving as a result of believing you choose to love...and act on it?

Why not respect your FWW is fully capable of everything you are...made by the same hands...and truly respecting her stuff takes you listening and repeating, for clarification...which honors and does not absorb into us...doesn't take her truth over YOUR truth, which is how we betray ourselves further, deeper, and continue enmeshment.

You cannot call her on boundary violations, defining/mindreading/assumptions, until you change your own belief and act to your own standard, which is respect...which means you do not define anyone else. Until we hold ourselves to this standard, we can't make it a boundary, nor enforce it. Walking the walk of what we talk is balance within us...and our relationships.

I had to put a hopper on my NC...to get that what my WH was saying wasn't about me...it was about him...even when he said, "Well, you'll have to live with this" or "See the way you are? You're always like this. I can't talk to you."

I would hear his words and visualize them going into a hopper, like a spaghetti strainer, in my head, and not allow myself to let them seep into my brain, become part of my knowledge, until I was straight that this was his perception and belief...not The Truth...His Truth. Then I would let them in. And I would correct myself as I spoke to him, repeated back, "You believe I will choose to live with this" or "You want me to see how my words affect you, my actions and you believe this is what justified your affair, is that correct?"

Nonreactive and respectful. Awesome way to live...got me through contact, withdrawal and into recovery...and into thriving...takes time...and I believe, making my highest goal...to strive first to understand, then be understood. For clarity, not reaction. The more I did this, the more I realized I was defensive my whole life, hearing/seeing/believing there were attacks and rejection where there wasn't...so I lived reactively. The freedom is heady...awesome...joyful. Release yourself.

You can't sit anyone down, btw...they choose to sit, be present...seeing their choices as they truly are theirs...helps to remind us of our own. Why not go inward more than outward right now...and share...teach yourself the difference between fixing and understanding is VAST...90% of marital issues are not problems to be solved, but understood. Listen and repeat. Hear where she's defining you and repeat back stating how that violates your boundaries and ask for her to be vigilant for the same from you...

Partnership is equality...respectful, acknowledged and valid equality. Not her doing to you nor you doing to her. If you decide to believe that you make each other feel, think, believe and perceive...then you are responsible for what neither of you can control...rough way to live. I'll respect your choice. My intent is to lay your choices before you for awareness.

Is this normal? Does that matter to you? Are you feeling like you're unique? Are you measuring or judging for a reason? To self-comfort, support or encourage?

LA

So MM i think what you are trying to say from previous post is that let her own HER perception of reality, it is not mine.........gotcha. Here is the bad thing..i get to see where her head space is..Its like sayin HELLO, I AM WHAT IS DEFINED AS HUSBAND.then by the time it travells from the ear to the brain (chinese telephone style)It is saying "Its OK to just be friends.......the truth is i think that the words "Just Friends" or "Friends" migh be a trigger. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Will study your post some more MM. Thanks for that input.

M2L,

4 Degrees….What! Aww he!! No. You ,my good man, can keep your “fabulous weather”. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I hear you about my down day. And yess I hate to admit it but …….CAN THEY MOVE THE PROCESS ALONG?

I know that I got to be patient. You mention so many things in your thread that I am scared…….they mirror my stich too accurately. Weird man…….

I never saw the pressure from your POV in the email. I know that she sees herself with a frightenly low self esteem and that God doesn’t love her now……I guess that I was trying to remind her of Gods grace….I really do love her.
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[color:"red"] [/color] *************
Thanks M2. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

MM so based on what you said, DON’T SIT HER DOWN and speak to her……..i get this.

I just want to try make her feels safe………I know I cant. IDONT KNOW WHY I KEEP TRYING TO DO THIS.

******
Well, that makes two of you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

B/c she sure as hale doesn't know or understand either. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
****************

Well at least that’s comforting in some weird sort of way.

J95,

I don’t know which is better,you responding or the single message that stood out.

Do not get upset or flip out. She doesn't feel safe yet totally committing to the marriage yet. She is afraid that things will get bad again. She isn't willing to put herself out there yet, for fear of getting hurt, so she talks in noncommittal generalities. Keep inviting her back and make her feel safe opening up to you.

Thank you….i constantly have to remember that it is early days yet and like what LA said some time ago, I have to say we are somewhere between withdrawal and recovery

I think that your wife is saying something that you need to HEAR...

You can't HEAR HER if you prejudge her...

I'm warning you..you might say OUCH when you read my next statements...

Here it is: SHE PROBABLY FELT LOVED by the other man because all he did was TO LISTEN...OPs will be on their best behavior and will do what they know makes the WS FEEL GOOD. He probably just sat and LISTENED TO HER, looked her in the eyes and ACCEPTED HER....

As I said before, this is the DREAM MAN...

I say get yourself the book LOVE AND RESPECT..that's what helped me understand all of this....

Women feel loved when they are LISTENED to and they feel like they are HEARD.

I bet you made a FACE or stopped looking at her when she said something that you did not like...

When my H does this, I FEEL DISCOUNTED...AND REJECTED...

She doesn't want you to AGREE or to PREACH to her. She wants you to LISTEN....

Another thing that really bothers me that I wonder if you are doing..DO YOU HAVE A PRECONCEIVED IDEA OF WHAT YOU WANT HER TO SAY? DO YOU MAKE AN ASSUMPTION ABOUT WHAT SHE IS SAYING BEFORE ASKING HER WHAT SHE MEANS?

When my H does this, and it makes me feel like a NONPERSON...

I've learned to tell him so..so he will LISTEN to me..He doesn't have to agree. I NEED HIM TO LISTEN and to CORROBATE THAT I HAVE BEEN HEARD BY HIM.

I say ask her what she means by her comments and let her tell you without MAKING ASSUMPTIONS....

What do you think?

She may not feel like you are there FOR HER. ARE YOU? Do you need for her to e a person who she is not?

OMG,

LA from what you said...........i think my love is twisted.........there is much to learn here..........need to pause and re read again........i tried so hard not to DJ her that i didnt see that i was even carrying it out in my mind.

I feel like a bone that was broken and healed badly / crooked...now it has to be "broken again" and "reset"

I honestly thought i was helping her....I thought she needed my help.

LA based on what you said......i probably need more help than my WW(F).

I am so not respecting her.......i really thoght i was though.

what have i done?

Don't worry, you have time to make up for it. It is just you and her now. Keep improving yourself and depositing love units while you figure out how to avoid withdrawing them.

I hope you are GETTING that this is ALL ABOUT YOU...

We have been encouraging you to focus on YOURSELF and not HER...

Have you noticed my WILD WOMAN thread?

I was like you during EARLY RECOVERY..so self-righteous and preachy..wanting to get it JUST RIGHT..while being SO WRONG..so SENSITIVE and TOUCHY....I'M TALKING ABOUT MYSELF HERE...

Folks encouraged me to LOOSEN UP AND HAVE FUN..

BE WHO I AM..RATHERING THAN FOCUSING ON MY H..OR THE OW..OR WHAT HE NEEDED TO SAY AND TO DO....

because he was still foggy and still bound to say or do lots of hurtful stuff..

BUT..just like your wife..my H was saying stuff that I needed to LISTEN TO and LEARN FROM....

PERSONAL RECOVERY...

LA, I read it again. I am stuck here for awhile.

Too much insight.

For some reason all my perceptions of what i was doing was skewed.

I am understanding MYSELF (mimi should like this)a LITTLE more. I want so bad to make ammends and set boundaries...but only after i respect her boundaries.

LA please hang around my porch along with my other dear friends a bit more. I appreciate your unique insight.

Mimi should be proud ........me actually seeing what "ME" HAVE to fix.

When mimi said personal growth.i didnt realize how much work i had in front of me to do.

WW told a friend of hers that i am starting to do all she hoped for and she was afraid that i would stop.

it was encouraging......i hope others who read this board will realize that even when an A occur, It sometimes give us a "second chance" to look at ourselves and discover our true potential for real compassion. Real understanding and to really be free........an own individual.

I pray that i havent set her back in any way.

Now i know what i need to focus on..me.

Thanks LA, MIMI

i really love you all.

I just sent you TWO POSTS that you might have missed...but it seems like YOU"VE GOTTEN WHAT I'VE SAID in the meantime...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Good.

You know you can't make another person feel anything.

But, you can be a safe place for her to fall.

This means that you respect her enough to allow her to believe whatever she wishes to about herself, you, or your R. If she wishes to believe she's a bad person then don't argue w/ her.

When you said to her, "You are a good person." Even though, you were saying something positive about her, you were DJing her b/c you were telling her who she was.

You can say, "I don't believe you are a bad person, or I think you are a good person." You aren't telling her who she is...you're telling her who YOU believe she is.

Do you see the difference?

You two are SEPARATE people. W/ separate thoughts, beliefs, and feelings. Respect this. Be grateful we are made this way. It is very freeing to live this way.

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LA is great at helping w/ this kind of thing. She has been a tremendous blessing in my life.

~ Marsh