MImi,
Yes i looked away...*sigh*
Yes i had a preconceived idea...*sigh*

Yes OM did listen to her.....
I need to change my attitude.

OK. you are soooo on the point.

ouch.

NC,

My privilege to hang out with you...and I have a question...

Where's your payoff in comparing your personal recovery to your FWW's or anyone else's for that matter?

Even choosing to think "I'm worse off than FWW!" is a comparison, a judgment...will rot your bones, dear NC. All I'm doing is highlighting habits...which you got from your FOO (family of origin)...so you're not even odd, NC. You're very normal...human...all of you.

Why do you keep doing what you don't believe in? Haven't replaced the belief, or permitted yourself to react to the old beliefs (we make, earn, punish) rather than choose to act.

Believe in yourself, NC...this was what changed my life...for a lifetime. We all get it when we're ready...let go the bad/good judgments...should's or shouldn'ts...just be you, know you and share you.

That's your assignment for the rest of your life.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As for the byproducts of your choosing to eliminate LBs...your FWW may feel safer, more accepted, loved and less judged...as a byproduct...make your intent to align yourself with your adult beliefs...live and choose your actions from them...let the byproducts be that you'll be a magnetic and attractive spouse...

You can't make your spouse feel safe...you can do your best to be safe...still their feelings and perceptions are theirs. Know she is as capable as you are...owns her stuff whether she believes she does nor not...and do like Mimi and Marsh have advised...relax, self-focus and know true freedom, responsibility and love...authentic being.

You can do this...no doubt. Do not doubt. This was an awareness call, not condemnation. Please do not condemn yourself...or you will condemn others. Keep that two-way street in mind...kick your own butt, you WILL kick others...balance in the universe...universal justice is real...so accept you may come round and round to the issue of respect, ownership (no blame) and judgment...because you're on an upward spiral staircase...only goes upward....on the same poles that hold it up from the bottom to the top...from your birth and beyond...and as you keep moving forward, step by step, you'll keep facing those poles...and will feel like you're at the beginning all over again...KNOW you are not. Still advancing, look at that view...different from before...just when you look that same darn pole again, looks, feels and smells the same...

And it isn't.

Gotta have the ouch before the ahhh of healing, NC.

LA

MM

............to be a safe place for her to fall...........

Never looked at things that way. Even when i just spoke to her, the background sounded quiet.and i was asking what she wanted to cook for dinner.She said that she felt stuffed and nothing tonite. Then asked whats wrong?(picked it up in my voice) i said i was tired and felt sluggish.

truth be told...i just had an acid test........i DJ WW in my mind,.........like"supposed she was with OM?" why did she want to call me back in 10 mikes? Why was she offering to call me and hurry the call now? was she with or passing OM?"

Yes family........i was DJing her all over AND i felt the turmoil.

lost this message earlier over an hour old

***********************
Gotta have the ouch before the ahhh of healing, NC.
**********************
LA .....i love that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

No, you didn't DJ here.

You had a fear.

Fear isn't DJing.

It just is.

Why didn't you choose to ask/tell her about your fear?

~ Marsh

You know .........I hope M2L is learning from this stich too.

I am feeling wierd.........powerless.....the last time she got gifts and showed them to me, she asked "Arn't you interested who i got them from?"

Me: Nope.I figure you will tell me if you want.

Two days later.....i asked in an off hand manner and she said that they were from her female co-worker that was retiring.

i felt a weight lifted off my chest.

now i am so not trusting her even when i said so........so i guess i lied.

Why? To try make her comfortable and feel good.

i wasnt open and honest. I wanted to fix it.

So what if she met with OM? i ask myself.
Why did she say this morning that she never had to/felt such dependence on anyone....like me and it makes her very uncomfortable.

You understand my mindset?

She is going to stay with me yet i dont trust her to stay "pure" and it shows just how deeply entrenched my mind is in this type of thinking.

MM,

My fear lie in the possibility of this may not be the case and i "bust her chops" for nothing.

I maybe wrong.

just my thought. hope you read post about getting gifts from retiring coworker.

hope you understand my POV.

I'm reading every word NC. Yes we do feel alike VERY much. This is all so very much info at a time when I still don't eat lunch everyday and it is hard to remember what I have for dinner last night.

Living day to day. My wife throws out some things that are good and some that are bad. All I realy know is that this can't go on forever, sure for months, but not years.

NOTE TO WWS- GET MOVING WITH THE PROGRAM. NC AND I ARE WAITING!!!!

M2L

I think you guys are learning how dependent you have been on your wives to DEFINE WHO YOU ARE...

That is not attractive to us....

Why did you end by saying get with it WWs..We are waiting?

We are encouraging NOT TO WAIT..but to GO FORWARD towards WORKING ON YOURSELVES....

Get it?

Why didn't you give yourself permission to ask?

Look at how much better you felt when you learned who gave it to her.

What if it had been OM?

Wouldn't THAT information be good to know?

Isn't it better not to be in the dark?



Good.

Then start telling the truth.



I don't know.

Ask her what she meant.




And???

Your feelings of distrust are perfectly normal.

Do you think you should have different feelings?

~ Marsh

Yes...mindset is UNDERSTOOD. BEEN THERE DONE THAT....but it got ME nowhere but STUCK...

When this happens, redirect from her onto yourself.

How can I become the most wonderful H possible so the last thing in her mind would be the OM?

FOCUS ON YOURSELF..not on what SHE is saying..not on what SHE is doing..not on what SHE might be doing...

YOU CAN'T CONTROL THIS ANYWAY...

YOU CAN ONLY CONTROL YOURSELF....

YES, YOU ARE POWERLESS OVER HER..but not over YOURSELF!!!

You're not busting her chops by sharing your feelings or asking questions.

Provided you do so respectfully.

Now, she may take your respectful question and switch it around in her mind as you're busting her chops, but that doesn't mean you are.

Do you understand?

You must give yourself permission to ask questions.

YOU matter.





Of course I do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

~ Marsh

Mimi,

I have made many changes to me and for me and no one else. I like the new me and my wife likes it too. When I said we are waiting I was trying to convey the need for the ww to help with the M right now and in a big way.

This will not come as news to ANYONE here. NC and I have been hurt and we have overcome the run away feeling. The feeling of you Bithc - how could you? I'm done with you - you low life sluttt. We are caring H, like many BS here are. Heck, we are here because we care. Now we have worked hard and I feel (not speaking for NC) it's time that ww work as hard as I have.

Now as you have said, many other also, we need to work on us and go forward. I understand, but it is lonely and I have been dependent on my wife. It is hard to pull away, keep the love, hold my family together, work, faint happiness, be a good father and still wait for ww to come around.

thanks all and I don't want to thread jack NC's

M2L

Here is a 2x4 for you to use. I know you are looking for one.

Feelings are signals...

when you feel powerless, that could be signalling you that your focus is where you have no control...like throwing your power away or shoving it down her throat...

You caught yourself lying...terrific!!! A lot of your fear is coming from your WW NOT being O&H...which you can't control..AND a lot of it is coming from you to you because you are not being O&H. What you most crave from others, you are least giving.

Balance yourself. Know your fear and speak anyway. Share...not shove.

Begin adding "right now" to the end of most of your thought sentences..."I choose not to trust her...right now." "I feel powerless right now." That assures you of reality...and boy, do our feelings drop in intensity each time we acknowledge reality!

I got through my triggers by owning them, NC..."I saw a small notebook on the table and triggered to your love letters to OW." Sometimes, my FWH wouldn't say anything, just nod and hold my hand. Other times, he would ask questions...slowly but surely, these triggers happened less often...when he came home late without calling, I welcomed him home (hug and kiss...from my code) and said, "I felt great fear and a tight stomach from automatically fearing you were with OW again."

Outloud...to share and validate my own darn stuff. See, he learned how to choose his thoughts by hearing how I chose my own..."I just thought of OW and chose to get rid of the thought before my anger and fear rose up. I think the sky is beautiful right now."

Thought replacement retrained my brain. If I remember, as I am for this post, and dwell for longer than 30 seconds, two years later, I feel deep anger, a slice of pain and a dollop of sorrow...I choose not to dwell where I have no control.

I felt loved and cherished by my FWH during my triggers. I would pick up his cell in front of him and look. And thank him for being with me while I worked on my snooping. Last week, he found an old notebook in his winter parka from that time...and said, "Oh, crap" as he read what he'd written. I asked to read it. I read it aloud. It was more of the same...his being angry at me for taking away his OW and all those good feelings...not wanting to love me or fall in love with me...expecting more of the same pain if he stayed. No date on it. He took the notebook and asked, "You want to keep it?" I said no. Then I asked, "Can I throw it away?" It has many unused sheets of paper and when he said, "Sure!" enthusiasticaly, I threw it away in it's entirety, waste and all.

We hugged...to my perception, my DH never had kind or forgiving eyes...and now, he does. He shines with empathy, understanding...through ownership. Had to combat his own fixer/pleaser/abuser...and he's doing well. Because I owned MY stuff.

Speak, NC...share who you really are and let the response go...it isn't yours. Do for you what you want most from her...because part of your craving is trying to get what you are least giving.

You can do this. Halve your pain and double your joy. Your choice.

LA

I just saw this reply...



<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



If you aren't sure what she means when she tells you something, ask her to clarify.

Don't assume the phrase "Just friends" means the same thing to your FWW as it does you.

Give yourself permission to ask questions.

Now, if after she's clarified her message to you and you don't like what she's said, then you repeat back to her what her thoughts, opinions, feelings are in order to acknowledge them to her, but ALSO to bring home to you that they are HER thoughts, feelings, and beliefs NOT yours.

~ Marsh

Balance yourself. Know your fear and speak anyway. Share...not shove.

My motto for the next few weeks........

Yeah, for my WW it meant her boyfriend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

........How can I become the most wonderful H possible so the last thing in her mind would be the OM?..........

This mimi,.... is a classic.Almost the mantra of a cassanova.

If i ask myself this then i will know what to do.

Thanks mimi.

Ya know MM?

its funny mimi shows me mind set, LA set the rules for sharing and now you set the boundaries.

The three of ya shoud get together and start a thread called "the art of conversation; the recovery edition"

Trust you to give me insight like so many here.

Hey M2, feel free to TJ anytime. We have to always seek to learn, to......understand.