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I just got this e-mail from my wife. We have been having communication problems and she has been rather cold and distant lately. In our talks she told me she had been tempted to get her needs met elsewhere. I sent her an e-mail telling her cheating was never an option and that we had to work harder with communicating with each other. This was here response. I guess from what I can gather she is already having her needs met elsewhere. I just sent her an e-mail asking for more information. I am very hurt right now and I'm having a hard time deciding what to do next. I'm looking for suggestions. I agree it does not solve any problems, but I guess I was just enjoying the attention--someone telling me I looked great and paid attention to me (and this was just all talking. I admit I did stop over at his house one night after work, but after that is when I got real confused and realized I did not want to throw away our marriage for what would most likely just be a fling--but I guess I was missing a bit of ego stroking and I feel so awful that I would even consider anything like this and it made me feel guilty and bad because then what does that mean I think of you?)
Also, I have always hoped you would be a bit more of a go-getter and more dominant in the relationship. When we first met, you needed to be taken care of and I think I did a pretty good job of that. Once we had established ourselves, I was looking for more of that from you. And I am not talking financial, you are very giving with the check card and I due truly appreciate that. I am looking for those instances when just for the heck of if you do something, even if it is silly. Like take your picture with Tigger and not be so standoffish about it, or when OD asks for Chinese, you actually take our orders and go get it!! Or if I'm craving a pumpkin shake, you'll go get me one, or make my lunch sometime or take YD out just for the heck of it and give me some free time alone, or let me sleep in on a weekend--I think you get the hint. But it's is not like I haven't asked for this before. I think you are a great husband and father--sometimes I almost cry when I see you and YD together at times, ever since I met you and the first time I saw you playing with your brother's kids when they were much younger, I always wanted to have kids with you because I never had a good experience with my first marriage, and I am just so glad and feel so blessed to have Natalie--I wish we could have had another one, but I guess too much time is going by.
I know you want me to be happy, and I know I am stubborn a lot, but the way to make me happy is not to let me have my way all the time (or to at least make me feel like I do) You don't have to be mean about it or anything, but I would like you to take charge sometimes. Not so much with the kids, you know how I feel about doing things for them, and I agree I do over do, but they are not going to be kids forever and will soon be going off on their own, so let's enjoy them while we can. I don't need much and am much more happy doing and getting things for others, which gives me a million times more joy than getting anything.
Communication for sure is they key, but it needs to be started on both ends and not just from mine, as it always seems to be. I want to get back to the closeness we once had, not just mentally but also physically. I truly enjoy our short trips together and would like to go on more dates, but I would like more of that to come from you--in one way I am still a bit old fashioned and I think the male should be doing more of that instigating of things like that, and in all honestly, we did not really have much of a dating period when we first met. I would like to get back on that track and get back to more physical closeness. I don't even know why we don't more often because it is always a wonderful experience. and actually I enjoy the quickies because it does not take me long and you think we can find a few minutes every now and then! One of my favorite times with you was when we went to that little cabin in Wisconsin and locked ourselves in the bedroom--I know neither of us can last that long anymore--but we need to experience more things like that, and talk about what we would like to do with our future, where to go, what to do with the house, what are our plans for retirement and all that sort of stuff.
I am sorry that I have even been thinking of cheating, but maybe I am going through a mid-life crisis or something. I just really want to work in this because I know we have had problems before, but things have just gotten out of hand and it has scared me to think what I may have done to destroy our relationship.
This person has been a friend of mine for years and I never considered anything till just recently and I figure that means we really need to work on getting this repaired. I do love you, you are a great person and I want to fall in love with you all over again.
Me- 51
Wife- 41
2 sons 22 & 20
2 daughters 3 & 18
DD 10-26-06
Ongoing LTA ?
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Wow, Confused. This is my take on this- I wish I had given a letter like this to my BH when I was first thinking about my EA OM- and if I had, I would have wanted him to confront me about the OM, but then decide to work on our marriage. She's pretty much giving you the ball- and as her letter stresses, she wants you to run with it.
Can you do the things she asks? Do you want to? It is now up to you.
But for sure get on her about the EA- and PA if it was. Get it all out in the open.
And IMHO, and I just stated it on Heartsore's thread- NO EMAIL!! Talk about a cop out method of communication. Again. my VHO.
I'll ponder some more, but I'm looking at this positively- if she didn't want to make your marriage work, she would NEVER have written this. But now it's up to YOU.
Me FWW 36
BH 50
D-day 1 2/18/06
D-day 2 3/28/06 (same EA)
NC 3/28/06 and going strong
7 total children
Mine/ours live with us
DS 15
DD 12
DD 21 months
"With all it's shams, lies, and broken dreams, life is still wonderful. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy."
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15
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OP
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Posts: 15 |
Thanks for the reply. I agree about the no e-mail thing, but we are both at work and I wanted to talk to her. I will discuss things with her some more tonight.
She just contacted me and told me she had already asked the OM not to contact her any more. She did this without any propting from me. Seems like a pretty good sign.
I am willing to do what she asks and will work harder on communicating with her from now on.
Me- 51
Wife- 41
2 sons 22 & 20
2 daughters 3 & 18
DD 10-26-06
Ongoing LTA ?
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Posts: 311
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I would get all the details you want- find out what happened. She should not give you the, "it's all over, why are you doing this to me?" attitude. Keep in mind, I'm a FWW, so I know how this goes. this will also feed into her wanting you to take charge. THis is definitely an area where you need to!
Also, it's good that she initiated NC (no contact) with OM, but I'd make sure if I were you. This is VERY HARD for a WW to do. I would make her draft a letter or email and have you approve it. Something along the lines of," I love my husband and am going to make my marriage work. Please never contact me again." That's all- nothing else. No re-hashing, etc. You don't want her "fooling" you into thinking she's all done, when really she just wants to lull you into thinking she is so she can continue the A deeper underground. Believe me, I know of what I speak!!!!
Then get her reading His Needs, Her Needs, and possibly Surviving an Affair. Also read Lovebusters.
And remember, even if there was no sex, it's still an affair!!!
Me FWW 36
BH 50
D-day 1 2/18/06
D-day 2 3/28/06 (same EA)
NC 3/28/06 and going strong
7 total children
Mine/ours live with us
DS 15
DD 12
DD 21 months
"With all it's shams, lies, and broken dreams, life is still wonderful. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy."
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Posts: 15
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OP
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Posts: 15 |
You are right. I will have to take charge. If I know my wife she will be reluctant to send him a no contact letter. I hope I'm wrong, but I will insist upon it.
She has already given me the line "it was only a kiss". She insists its over and I need to trust her. What is it we always say. "Trust through verification". I have some work to do, but I am optomistic given the fact she told me she wants to work on our marriage
Me- 51
Wife- 41
2 sons 22 & 20
2 daughters 3 & 18
DD 10-26-06
Ongoing LTA ?
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Posts: 311
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ABSOLUTELY be optimistic. You need to insist over and over that trust needs to be EARNED!! Would she trust you if the tables were turned??? NO! Trust, shmust. Give me PROOF.
Is OM married? If she is reluctant to write a NC letter, you might need to go to exposure......which would she rather have? She needs to make you feel protected in this case, protected from her past actions. She should be bending over backwards to do what you want. ANd sometimes that takes time.
Wow, I have lots of $.02 today!!
Me FWW 36
BH 50
D-day 1 2/18/06
D-day 2 3/28/06 (same EA)
NC 3/28/06 and going strong
7 total children
Mine/ours live with us
DS 15
DD 12
DD 21 months
"With all it's shams, lies, and broken dreams, life is still wonderful. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy."
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Posts: 15
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OP
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15 |
I don't know if the OM is married or not. I get the impression he is single, but I'm not sure. I will be having a serious discusion with her very soon.
She did get defensive when I suggested he might not be such a nice person after all if he invited a married woman to his house and then kissed her. She said I have no right to say he is not a nice person. Looks like we have some work to do!
Me- 51
Wife- 41
2 sons 22 & 20
2 daughters 3 & 18
DD 10-26-06
Ongoing LTA ?
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Posts: 311
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Yep. She's foggy. It takes awhile to get out of it. You must insist on full transparancy, seeing her cell, email, etc, knowing where she is. She has proven herself not trustworthy until further notice.
It's hard work, I won't kid you. But it is worth it, so hang in there. There will be plenty of tough conversations, so hold on.....
Me FWW 36
BH 50
D-day 1 2/18/06
D-day 2 3/28/06 (same EA)
NC 3/28/06 and going strong
7 total children
Mine/ours live with us
DS 15
DD 12
DD 21 months
"With all it's shams, lies, and broken dreams, life is still wonderful. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy."
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CD-
It's not going to do you any good to tell your wife what's wrong with OM right now...the fog will completely prevent her from seeing it. I had the same kinds of conversations with my wife during/a while after her EA. It makes her defensive of the OM, and really defeats your purpose of winning her back.
For now, concentrate on being the best "YOU" you can be. Start doing things to improve your marriage, and just as importantly start doing things that take care of YOU.
This will actually make you the more attractive choice.
Don't worry about educating her right now. But...educate yourself. Read up on this site, read "His Needs, Her Needs", "Surviving an Affair", and "Not Just Friends". The more you understand how affairs work, the better you can work. But teaching her will only tick her off at this point...it's not until later when she begins to come out of the fog that this could be benificial.
Focus on getting NC established FIRST.
Get the affair ended NOW. That means NO CONTACT with OM of any kind at all. Read up on the tools here if you think that it's still ongoing.
Here's the other side of the coin for plan A. Don't accept her continuing contact or the affair. Make it clear to her how much she hurts you by attempting to do any of this. Accept responsibility for your part of any marital issues, but do NOT accept ANY responsibility for her choice to do what she's done.
Right now, focus on plan A...make sure you read and understand how that works, and ask around here if you've got any questions.
You're in a better situation than most when they first come here...she wants to work things out with you. So make it clear to her what it's going to take to recover your marriage...and make it clear to her what she is going to GAIN in staying married to you.
But don't accept blame for things that you aren't responsible for. Women don't love men they don't respect.
Hang in there.
Oh...and schedule some time with her that is completely free of ANY kind of relationship talk. Take her on dates, have fun, do NOT let any conversation occur about the affair or marriage during those.
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Does anyone think that she needs to change her expectations a little? It seems to me that the things she wants are typical "Cinderella Complex" things. I am a woman, btw ... and I admit that I've had the same kinds of wishes for my relationship w/my husband. I know in reality, however, that my husband is not that dominant male type, and he would almost need a personality transplant in order to act that way.
What attracted me to my husband was how kind he is, and how he pretty much acquiesces to what I want all the time ... but then I get frustrated because he doesn't "take charge." And yes, I know I'm being totally selfish and unfair (which is why I'm here in the first place...I want to learn to be a better partner).
So, I'm just trying to point out that maybe she has some work to do to on her end to appreciate the qualities her husband has that make him such a wonderful husband and father, and not to expect him to become this White Knight that she apparently longs for.
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OP
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Fiat,
Our situations sound somewhat similar. I have never been a dominant person; however I don’t let people walk all over me either. My wife on the other hand is very assertive. She knows what she wants, how she wants things done, why she wants things done that way and she is not shy about expressing her needs. So you see my dilemma. I am kind of a quiet reserved guy and my wife is telling me to take charge and then when I do start to take charge, she won’t really let me. This cycle has repeated itself several times.
She has told me on occasion she would like me to be more like her father. Her father takes care of everything in his family. He takes care of all the finances, grocery shopping, planning of trips, ect. His wife cooks and cleans the house and that is all. Her father does everything else and that arrangement works very well for them. They seem very happy.
My wife’s biggest complaint to me is she would like me to plan more family outings and trips. My issue with that is we go and do things almost every weekend that she has planned. When we finally get a weekend off all I can think about is relaxing and unwinding a little bit. I do plan an anniversary trip every year and two or three weekend outings and quite frankly that is enough for me. I could do without all the activities all the time, but my wife enjoys them, so I go along. I don’t go along grudgingly. I do enjoy most of the things we do once we get there.
Me- 51
Wife- 41
2 sons 22 & 20
2 daughters 3 & 18
DD 10-26-06
Ongoing LTA ?
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15
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OP
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Joined: Mar 2005
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My wife and I had a brief discussion last night. In her opinion there was nothing inappropriate about going over to this man’s house after work. She said the only thing inappropriate was the kiss he gave her as she left. She informed me this sort of thing happens all the time in her office. “Friends” as she calls them go to each others houses for lunch and after work all the time. She seems to find this as normal behavior. Sounds like she was just trying to justify her actions. I wasn’t able to go into this in detail because all the children were home and we didn’t have much alone time. We have a lot of work to do!
Me- 51
Wife- 41
2 sons 22 & 20
2 daughters 3 & 18
DD 10-26-06
Ongoing LTA ?
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Posts: 4,140
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My wife and I had a brief discussion last night. In her opinion there was nothing inappropriate about going over to this man’s house after work. She said the only thing inappropriate was the kiss he gave her as she left. She informed me this sort of thing happens all the time in her office. “Friends” as she calls them go to each others houses for lunch and after work all the time. She seems to find this as normal behavior. "Aw, C'mon, Dad! ALL the kids are doing it! THEIR parents let THEM do it! You're just mean! I'm the only kid who's not allowed to do this!" Either your wife's coworkers are the most morally screwed-up people I've heard of in a long time, or else this is the lamest excuse ever for a married woman sneaking off to another man's house. Of course this is not normal behavior. Please don't fall for this for one second. The next time she says something like this, just look at her and bust out laughing. Then say, "Okay, that was a good one. Now, why did you REALLY go over to his house?" Mulan
Me, BW WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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You are right, it is a lame excuse. I really didn't know how to respond to this. It made me instantly angry and I had to resist the urge to lecture her. I do want to know what actually made her make the decision to go to his house and I can only hope it wasn't becasue "everybody else is doing it"
Me- 51
Wife- 41
2 sons 22 & 20
2 daughters 3 & 18
DD 10-26-06
Ongoing LTA ?
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Posts: 2,715
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How long have you been married?
Why not the tact of:
"You never have done this before. There's a good reason why...look at what this led to!"
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Posts: 15
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Posts: 15 |
"You never have done this before. There's a good reason why...look at what this led to!" My thoughts exactly. We have been married ten years and there has never been an instance where she went to a member of the opposite sexes house by herself. My imedite thoughs when she told me this were-- what did you think he invited you over for?-- I think if shes honest with herself she knows what he wanted. Thank goodness she got cold feet when she go there.
Me- 51
Wife- 41
2 sons 22 & 20
2 daughters 3 & 18
DD 10-26-06
Ongoing LTA ?
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Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
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CD, a couple of things really stand out here to me. First off, she is a willful independent soul who is forever trying to take charge. However, when she does get that charge, she resents the bag she is holding and begins to resent the person she got it FROM. I know this feeling well! I think the answer to this dilemma is to learn about the Policy of Joint Agreement and learn to negotiate by respecting each other. In order to do anything, you both must enthusiastically agree. This way you are not dragged off every weekend when you would rather relax. If you institute this policy in your marriage, then she is NOT able to run roughshod over you, which is something she really does hate. As much as she likes going off on the weekends and likes taking charge, she really, really hates it when you allow her to run over you. POJA will protect you both from this. One very important thing I have learned about myself is this: I do not respect men I can run over and my love is contingent upon the respect I feel. Here is a link that explains the POJA. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.htmlAnd lastly, I would suggest taking the emotional needs questionaires to indentify top needs. This will help you both better understand each other. And I am curious about why you registered in March 2005 but are only posting now? Why did you register back then?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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ML,
Thanks for your reply. When I first registered on this site, I discovered condoms missing from the nightstand in our bedroom. At the time there were only three people living in the house who could have taken them. Our teen age daughter, college age son or my wife. At the time I concluded that my daughter had taken them, however no one ever admitted to it. Now I wonder if I was right. When I first confronted my wife about it she said it must have been one of the kids. We did talk about it as a family at the time. My daughter had an honesty problem at the time, so we concluded it was her. Although never an admission from anyone. Now I don't know what to think.
Me- 51
Wife- 41
2 sons 22 & 20
2 daughters 3 & 18
DD 10-26-06
Ongoing LTA ?
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15
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My wife and I had a long talk over the weekend. Evidently this man has been contacting my wife every couple of years for our entire ten year marriage. Apparently while I was dating my wife this man wanted to have a relationship with her, but we were already planning our wedding. My wife told him he was too late and shortly after that we were married.
Then the man left the company where my wife works. After a year or two she got an e-mail asking how she was and what she was up to. She said at this point it was just small talk about what was going on in their lives. These e-mails continued periodically until one time when he asked how she was she told him she was unhappy with me and she was thinking of leaving (I was completely unaware she was contemplating leaving me). At this point was the first time he asked her to come over to his house. She declined and didn’t hear from him again until after the birth of our youngest daughter. We were getting along well at this time, enjoying our new daughter. When he contacted my wife at this time we were getting along well, so there was some small talk and she didn’t hear from him again for a while.
He contacted her again when my daughter was between ages 1 and 2. My wife said she was again feeling frustrated with me and discussed our relationship with this man again. He again asked her to come over to his house, but this time there was some flirting and sexual suggestions she said were all done in fun. This cycle continued until the present when she finally consented to go over to “see his new house”. She went there and they drank a couple of beers and as she was leaving he kissed her. She said she left immediately, but that she was confused and she admitted she was tempted to sleep with him. This is when I was told what was going on. She was feeling guilty and didn’t want to throw away our life together.
She refuses to tell me the man’s name and to send a NC letter. I told her this was absolutely essential to reassure me that she is committed to me. Her response was that it was immature and childish to send him a letter and that it would serve no purpose. She did tell me she told him not to contact her again and he sent her another e-mail and she did not respond to it. She absolutely refused in no uncertain terms to send him a letter that I approved. So now what?
The thing that struck me about this story is this man was constantly checking up on her and when she appeared vulnerable he made his move. What a jerk, yet my wife tells me what a nice man he is. Must be the fog.
Me- 51
Wife- 41
2 sons 22 & 20
2 daughters 3 & 18
DD 10-26-06
Ongoing LTA ?
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Posts: 764
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This cycle continued until the present when she finally consented to go over to “see his new house”. She went there and they drank a couple of beers and as she was leaving he kissed her. She said she left immediately, but that she was confused and she admitted she was tempted to sleep with him. I have seen this time and time again....at what point do you man up and get angry that your wife has slept with another man!! ??? She refuses to tell me the man’s name and to send a NC letter. I told her this was absolutely essential to reassure me that she is committed to me. Her response was that it was immature and childish to send him a letter and that it would serve no purpose. She did tell me she told him not to contact her again and he sent her another e-mail and she did not respond to it. She absolutely refused in no uncertain terms to send him a letter that I approved. So now what? You accept that fact that your wife is enjoying contact with other man, that your terms are not agreeable. Now do something!!! Even if it's wrong!! Or you can spend a few more years with a WW and be a doormat! Did you know about this man before your wedding?
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