hi everyone! would just like to share my great news with those of you who think you are going to continue to get stomped on by the wayward spouses. my story will show you that sure doesn't have to be so! karma people, karma..... i believe what comes around goes around for sure.

my ex moved out july 05 and we legally separated november 05. in our legal sep placement of the children was with me and we shared joint custody. he could see them "at such times and under such conditions that we both mutually agreed" well, i did NOT mutually agree that he could have them around ow, and i did not agree that they could spend the night where wh and ow lived in a one bedroom apt.

well, to make a long story short, this summer wh actually thought he could get full custody of our kids. he petitioned the courts for placement and custody of our 2 children. i was taken aback to say the least. wtf? seriously. do they ever come out of thier fogs? do they ever realize the world does NOT actually revolve around them? every allegation in his petition was a complete lie and yet he swore by signing it it was the truth. oh, and did i mention he has a very underhanded attorney?

with the help of my family we hired one of the best attorneys in the area. we filed a counter petition refuted every word of his original one. he forgets i have 2 years worth of documentation on him! i had drs. statements, the works. i blew his petition to shreds. we both had to be investigated by probation and the children were appointed a law guardian. did i mention, part of the reason he was pulling this crap is because it really pains him to have to write out that child support check every month?

when all was said and done, the investigations by the law guardian and probation both showed me to be a fit mother and both said the children should remain with placement with me. probation even went so far as to say that wh needed a mental health evaluation! i love it! when his attorney saw my counter plus all of the reports by all the investigators he told wh he needed to settle out of court. stubborn wh, naricissistic as he is, said no.

so, a month later we were back in court. by this time wh realized he was NOT going to win. with his tail between his legs his attorney sent mine a letter stating they wanted a settlement. we went to court last week figuring there would be a settlement, but i came prepared for a trial with witnesses and all. wh just came with ow, no witnesses, ASSUMING i was going to agree to settle. good thing i did, or he would have been very not prepared for trial! i am sure he was a bit nervous when he saw my witnesses parade right by him and ow and he had not brought any!

so, we now have a visitation order, i have placement, we have joint custody, they live with me, and he gets what he gets.

stupid waywards, think the world revolves around them. btw, i am a christian, and this victory was God's and His alone. He walked into that courtroom with me that day, and the good prevailed, and the evil did not.wh walked out, head down, and looking weary. first of all, we bs's are stronger than you think we are waywards! we don't lay down for you anymore. secondly, evil cannot come against one of God's children and actually expect to win. "Pride cometh before a fall" and falling hard wh sure is.... and i believe his falling has only just begun.

a victory for the betrayed spouses!
and custody is not the only area where i prevailed. i got 9 years worth of his retirement, the house, everything in the house, he pays ALL child care costs and ALL the children's medical. next month will determine his new cs amount since his pay recently went up substantially. see, someone above is looking out for me and my little ones!

he can have ow.. i have my children and that is all that matters. i would take them over him ANYTIME.

mlhb
mlhb

Congratulations! Like mine, yours dragged on a long time and the frustration grows.

Though this is a victory, it is a small one, and keep in mind that and NPD X will continue to cause problems. My X failed to show up in court on his petition this summer, and now tells my DD's that the judge said I moved to far away. The lies continue. And I'm sure they will with you.

NPD's actually believe the words they say. If they didn't, their entire lives would be lies.

Stay strong for your kids, and act in their best interests.

Mlhb- It is a victory but in the scheme of things it really does not matter. The kids are in the middle. 20 years from now will it matter? I have seen people fight over kids for years and all it means that they are still emotionally attacthed to each other. It is to bad people can have kids without any preparation. You can get married and have kids and be brain dead! Maybe if people had to be prepared, take tests, demonstrate knowledge before having kids we as a society would be in a better shape. I guess fighting over kids is better than abandoning them altogether. Just venting.
johoman

johoman.....some people prepare for kids, plan for them, nurture them......anything you can think of for the kids sake...and the marriage STILL does not work. All the tests in the WORLD would not change things. You know why??? The world is sinful.....full of sin. Has been, and will be until the end. It is written my friend.

Startin-- You are probaly right. In our modern society everything is disposable. But I think if they made it much harder to be parents we would have less of this. I know some marriages just won't work. Some people are just down right non resposnible not iresposnible-- non responsible.
johoman

This is great news, and a victory to be sure. However, karma doesn't always work, at least not in our time frame.

I am glad it all worked out for you and the kids, however you need to remember you are now their caretaker, and like him or not, they do need their father. Like the fiduciary duty a bank has when you deposit your money there, you are now responsible for seeing that the children spend time with their father. Please don't be one of those mothers that claim, "Well, he didn't call on time, so it's his fault!" Your children's time with their father is not a game to be won by anyone. It will only be their loss.

On the karma issue, all should remember that our court system is heavily weighted toward the mother. My ex played the game of filing a false report with child protective services, and even though CPS faund no basis for her claim and did not order any reduction in visitation, the ex took her case to court and has lied her way into having the children no longer visit me. She tried the same thing years ago and failed, but that wouldn't stop her. I had all the documented evidence, she only had false statements, yet the court believed her. Now the children suffer as they aren't allowed to see their father, and all the ex cares about is getting "her" money.

Study after study shows the children suffer irreparable harm when the father is removed from their lives, yet too many women couldn't care less about that as they only want to win "the game." Oh, they win all right, it's the children who lose.

So, please, make it about them, not about hurting him. If that is your goal, you will win, but your children will lose. Who is really more important to you?

i never ever prevented my ex from seeing the kids nor do i now. he is the one who started the custody battle, not me. i was happy with how things were. he had them on his days off and pretty much whenever he wanted them. he got greedy, decided if he had placement he would not have to pay me child support and there you go. he filed the petition with the courts. i had to defend myself and defend myself i did!

i would NEVER keep the kids from their father. I DO NOT play those games. his greed actually got him less visitation then he had before. i follow the court ordered visitation agreement. he gets them no more or no less than what that says.

i do agree it messes kids up when you keep one parent away. it is not about me and the ex, it is about them and what is best for them. it is best for them if they get to spend time with both of us.

just wanted to clarify that.
mlhb

My comments weren't a criticism, but meant as a warning. Many times we go into things with good intentions, but they later get out of hand.

Just make sure that all things as they relate to your ex are done for the best of the children. And, just saying you are doing that doesn't make it so. I can't tell you how many times I have heard that things are being done in the childrens' best interest, but in actuality they were only hurting the kids.

I did notice a red flag in your last post. You said, "...got him less visitation then he had before," and "...he gets them no more or no less than what that says." Um, isn't it really the children who get less of their dad then before? Is this their fault? If not, don't punish them because dad was a jerk.

I realize he filed and caused his own problems, but why should the children suffer for that? Just remember, it wouldn't hurt to let the children see their father a little extra here and there. Have them call him for no reason, FOR THEM! You did claim to be a christian, as am I, and I do recall Jesus saying to be kind to our enemies. Just a thought.

Another thought, all the money and things of his you "got," do the children NEED those, or was that done in spite? Just because "the law" and an attorney say you are due those things, doesn't make it so. Did you pray about those things, and do what the Lord led you to do, or did you just go for all you could? I think we both know the truth there.

Again, all I write is just as a warning. Remember the reason for forgiveness isn't for the sake of the other person, but for you. You have precious children in your care, put there by God. Part of that care is YOUR duty to see they have a good relationship with their father. Care for them well. It isn't their fault he messed up.

i believe i got all those things because god was taking care of me and my children. we needed a house to live in, god provided it. i got part of his retirement because i deserve after living through his multiple affairs.

you do NOT know my ex at all. do you want to know what he will do with extra time with his children? he will keep a log of it and haul me back in court in a year or two and tell a judge "gee, i had them as much as if not more than she did these past 2 years (because i gave him extra time) and low and behold they should come and live with me. see what i am saying. he would not spend it with the kids to be with the kids. in fact, up until about 5 months ago when all this started he was barely an existance in their lives period. he only spent time with them to impress the judge that was it. oh, and maybe to make ow think he was father of the year. they are 9 now and trust me, for the first 8 1/2 years of their lives he was barely there. it is all an act on his part.

the amount the kids see their father is plenty. i have no problem with any of it nor with how things turned out. i pray about everything all of the time. i believe things turned out perfectly within God's will.

mlhb

It is hard for (outside) people to understand an NPD. When my X is on a roll, I refer to the website below to calm myself. Their behaviors are not normal, and someone calmly reading a post without understanding might interpret things differently. I can relate.

http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html

I am astonished by this comment. How is it mlhb's 'duty' to make sure that the kids have a good relationship with their dad? Surely this is his responsibility?

If he messes up, then he messes up. mlhb shouldn't have to mop up for him. Even if he only has visitation rights, he still has parental responibility. Set_You_Free, you make it sound like mlhb should treat her ex like another one of her children - making allowances and excuses for him.

People who wreck marriages by having affairs deliberately damage their spouses and children for their own selfish pleasure. These people may still be parents, but their selfishness diminishes their effectiveness as decent parents, as they have clearly demonstrated that their affair partner means more to them than their own children.

Thank goodness some courts still recognise this. I wish mine had!

Alph.

Alphin, you apparantly don't understand my comment. It isn't about treating the ex like a child, or giving them special favors that they may or may not "deserve."

After my parents divorced, I moved in with my dad as I hated my mom. I never wanted to see or talk to my mom again. My dad could have easily played the "It's not my fault, it's his (the child, me) choice and your (mom) problem" game, especially since my mom had been quite a pill. But, my dad knew what was best for me and he did it. He forced me to respect my mother (who did and does have some serious problems), which eventually caused me to love her again.

That is what I mean by a fiduciary duty of the custodial parent. A bank has a duty to keep the relationship between you and your money alive. They don't tell your money what a jerk you are, and give you only specific viewing/play time with your money. If the bank can't handle that, regardless of their feelings for you, or what you did in the past, they have no business being given teh responsibility of caring for your money. It doesn't really matter what one parent's feelings are toward the other, or even why the marriage broke up. As long as there is no REAL (not just perceived through hate colored glasses) danger to the child, the custodial parent does have a duty, and should exercise it in the best interest of the child.

I've been cheated on too, but my children still need their mother, no matter how she was then or is today. It IS my responsibility to promote their relationship with their mother. If I refuse to do that, or try to harm it, I have no business being given the great responsibility of raising children. If you have trouble with that, then I feel sorry for your children. I have seen too many children harmed by bitter exes.

You may see it as your responsibility. I do not see it as mine. It is my ex's responsibility to promote his own relationship with his children.


How dare you presume that because I disagree with you, my children are deserving of pity?


I have seen far more children harmed by selfish, adulterous parents. I am still astonished that you expect spouses who have been betrayed, and have seen their children damaged by selfishness, to basically cover up for their exes.

Children should be told the truth, not some romantic lie, about the parent who hurt them.

Alph.

Alph--You gotta let the kids find out for themselves what the other parent is like. Covering up fo an ex spouse is not what I think is happening-I think that the custodial parent should not put any road blocks in front of the kids seeing their other parent. Bad mouthing the other parent only pressures the kids. They know what thier other parent is but probaly to thier dying day they won't admit it. I have a 40 yr old SD that sees her Dad as a wonderful person (he isn't). She was allowed free access to him and even lived with him for a year or so when she was in high school but she chose her mother and finished high school with us. johoman

I agree. Nothing I have written has contradicted this. It is SYF who disagrees.


Again, I agree. Neither mlhb nor I have stated anywhere in this thread that we are 'keeping' our kids from our exes or bad-mouthing them.

I simply do not believe that the parent with custody has the 'duty' to repair the relationship between an errant parent and their children. That is for the errant parent to do!

And I do not think that telling the truth to children about their errant parent is bad-mouthing that parent, either. It is, after all, the truth.

I deeply resent SYF's implication that I am causing pain to my children because I tell them the truth and let them make their own minds up about their father.

Alph.

My daughter's counselor has told me that a bad father is better than no father. And even if a parent doesn't operate in the best interest of the child, the child will learn from that experience and decide how they want to be treated as they grow.

I also don't believe that it is our responsibility to provide a "good relationship", it is each parent's responsibility on their own, just as if the family were together.

In this, and in many cases here, the complaining parent is typically the one who is not acting in the children's best interest, or fostering the relationship they claim to desire with the children.

I agree with a lot of what has been written on both side of this issue. However, there is something I would like to point out. That is that every non custodial parent (in my case cheating EXW) is not necessarily good for the child or their best interest. My point being that while I will do nothing to harm the relationship between my son (of whom I have custody), I also am not responsible for the being the type of parent that he wants to be with, learn from, respect, love, trust, etc. That is up to her. At the same time and on the other hand, as the custodial parent of this child I am also responsible for holding my EXW responsible for actions that are not in the best interest of our son (Whether they are in HER best interest, make her feel good, make her less guilty, make the old OM feel better or not is of no concen to me, none.) and I will do this to the maximum. So, I guess the amount of extra time she gets to see him is completely dependent on HER, There is no other way to view this IMO.

Alphin- I don't think the cusodial parent has any responsibilty to repair any relationship with the other parent either--just be neutral. johoman

johoman, you and I are, I believe, on exactly the same page. I don't recall ever saying it was Alphin's responsibility to repair her child's relationship with the ex, nor did I ever read anything from Alphin that said the father child relationship was broken.

My only point was, based on Alphin's own comments that the ex would get nothing more than the court order, which really means the child will get nothing more, Alphin appeared to be a roadblock to the child having a good relationship with the ex. Well, that and Alphin's insistence on telling the "truth." My ex distorted an incident to our young child that happened over twenty years ago, calling it the truth, and now the child is troubled by mommy's "truth."

johoman, I think your comment of not putting up roadblocks or badmouthing was perfect. Alphin, claiming it's the "truth" doesn't make it right - bad mouthing is wrong, and illegal. I'm sure your court order has something in it preventing both parents from disparaging the other. Alphin even admits badmouthing the ex, but she chooses to call it the "truth." That's a nice little game, but it doesn't fly.

johoman, you also made a comment earlier that fighting over the kids showed a continuing emotional attachment between the exes. Of course Alphin has a right to be upset as her ex cheated on her. Never would I excuse that, but why take it out on the kids? And, yes, Alphin, you are, no matter what you think. Take others views on that issue, as your view is severely distorted.

Just like beer goggles make a person of the opposite sex look better than they are, bitter glasses will only distort what you believe you are doing.

Alphin, you can tell me until you are blue in the face that you are not bitter, but the facts, er, the truth, says otherwise. Please, for your childrens sake, stop the disparaging, no matter what you choose to call it.

SYF, you are confusing my comments and those of mlhb. I have not discussed my custody arrangements on this forum, nor any court 'victorys' or otherwise.

I also never claimed not to be bitter. Bitterness, in my opinion, is a perfectly natural emotion to feel after one has gone through abandonment and divorce. It isn't wrong to feel bitter initially. It is wrong to hold onto bitterness, and to take it out on others. Whatever you may think, SYF, I do not let my personal issues affect my kids. I love them far too much for that.

I am done with this discussion. It has made me angry (an emotion I do not enjoy), and I feel I have very rudely imposed for far too long on someone else's thread.

SYF, I respect the way you bring up your children. But different people have different ways of doing things, and you should accept that. It doesn't necessarily make any of us bad parents.

Alph.