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Bravo, NB.
Awesome, amazing post.
Blessings to you

Agreed.

NB, Please post more often.

~ Marsh

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[threadjack]

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />HEY MARSH!!!<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[/threadjack]

Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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[threadjack]

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />HEY MARSH!!!<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[/threadjack]

Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hi Mrs. W. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Long time no see.

I missed you.

~ Marsh

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Star~

WOW!! What a well thought out post, (your first, but the subsequent ones too)~~ full of common sense, insight, and IMO, very diplomatic as well. I couldn't agree more.

Any thoughts on running for President? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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I'm attempting to shame you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <wow> There's some convoluted logic. If I ask how would you feel if I posted to you the way you've posted to Suzet....I'm shaming you????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Your question was not actually "How would you feel if I posted to you the way you've posted to Suzet?"... and here's why...

...because you added the example of my infidelity...

I already have felt great shame and remorse... it occurred almost seven years ago... I have made all the amends possible...

...and you used this as an "example" of posting to me as I posted to Suzet.

You purposely chose a painful part of MY PAST to shame me. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with Suzet or her situation (with regard to exposure and no contact).

And honestly, I am surprised that you can't see that.

Thank you to those of you who did understand my intentions. I hope that Suzet does, but sadly, my fear is that her comfort zone will stay intact... and for that, I am very sad (and Star, that *does* include the other victim, who must believe that denial is the best course of action for HIS cancer).



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Suzets husband was a VICTIM and his needs come before
the oms wife. What she shouldn't worry about, is what a bunch of people on a message board think of her, to let it hurt HER marriage.

Aramis...

Are you still having trouble finding the other boards??? As I recall, you haven't been either a WS or a BS...Looks to me as though you really don't have a dog in this fight, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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It just seems to me that we are getting a bit off track.

The fundamental issue from my POV is that Suzet went to the good doctor and neglected to mention that she is not obeying the absolute rules 1 and 2 but is concerned about #3. The good Dr. says #3 is optional and Suzet proudly proclaims "I told you so!". Even her repost to Dr. Harley sidesteps the issue. The question she should be asking Dr. Harley is whether she and BH have a good chance of success inspite of the fact that OM is still a serious threat to their marriage. That is not the question she asked. She asked some arcane question about False Recovery. Who the heck cares whether she had a false recovery or not. That is past. What is present is the concern. And the present concern is that OM is totally free to continue to destroy her M with impunity. I can't imagine allowing myself to give anyone permission to have that kind of control over my life. But we are not talking about me. We are talking about Suzet.

Before I take any interest in what Dr. H says about #3, I want to know for certain that he is well aware that #1 and #2 are not being followed. At least then his answer will have some context. I get the impression that Suzet is still gingerly sidestepping the issue. That 2nd email to Dr. Harley does outline the position she is in albeit will loads of excuses and justifications. But then she totally takes it OT with the one question she asks. If Dr. H is a person who only gives advice when asked, it is unlikely he will cut to the grain of the issue because he wasn't asked about it.

Sorry Suzet. This is your choice. Do what you and WH want. But you will never make it the best choice for saving your M. Your OM can take you down any time he wants. You said yourself you have no more chances with BH. As a BS, if OM tried to contact gemela again, that might be enough to push me to D even if she rejected him. I don't need that kind of pain in my life again. Maybe your BH is different. For your sake I truly hope so.

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Pio –

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The fundamental issue from my POV is that Suzet went to the good doctor and neglected to mention that she is not obeying the absolute rules 1 and 2 but is concerned about #3.
Not true. In my first e-mail to Dr Harley I’ve made my situation to him exceptionally clear and didn’t neglect to say anything. That post also didn’t leave any room for ambiguity.

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The good Dr. says #3 is optional and Suzet proudly proclaims "I told you so!".
I didn’t proudly proclaim anything. All I did was giving Dr Harley’s feedback on my e-mail to people who were interested. That’s all.

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Even her repost to Dr. Harley sidesteps the issue.
I didn’t sidestep anything. In my 2nd post to Dr Harley I gave him more background on my situation and why me and my H still fail to create extraordinary conditions to ensure that I will not accidentally see the OM again.

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The question she should be asking Dr. Harley is whether she and BH have a good chance of success in spite of the fact that OM is still a serious threat to their marriage. That is not the question she asked.
I did ask him this. The 2nd part of my question in my 2nd post to him read as follows: “do you think there is any hope for total marriage recovery and individual recovery in spite of these personal circumstances and obstacles?”

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She asked some arcane question about False Recovery.
Yes, I did ask this in the first part of my question to him. Actually I’ve asked him TWO questions – one about the false recovery and the one I posted to you in the previous paragraph.

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Who the heck cares whether she had a false recovery or not. That is past.
I care…whether it’s in the past or not.

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What is present is the concern.
Yes, I agree…and I’m concerned about that too.

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Before I take any interest in what Dr. H says about #3, I want to know for certain that he is well aware that #1 and #2 are not being followed. At least then his answer will have some context.
Dr Harley IS well aware that #1 is not being followed. I made that clear to him in both posts. Therefore his response was in context.

As far as #2 is concerned… my H & I do follow that rule. I would like to know why you assume that my H & I is NOT following #2.

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I get the impression that Suzet is still gingerly sidestepping the issue. That 2nd email to Dr. Harley does outline the position she is in albeit with loads of excuses and justifications.
It’s too bad that me and my H’s personal circumstances and obstacles are viewed as “excuses” and “justifications”.

Yesterday Star*fish has posted the following:

[color:"red"]“Americans have a bad reputation around the world because they are clueless about what it feels like to live in any other country besides here....where the opportunities seem endless and changing jobs is easy-peasy. It's easy for us to say (from the land of plenty) to "find another job Suzet!"....but we aren't a small minority living in a violent third world country where jobs are scarce and it isn't OUR children who will go unfed or our bills that will go unpaid. We're spoiled and entitled (and yeah that includes y'all Canucks :-)) The one thing I learned after living in so many different countries was that I wasn't "in Kansas anymore" and the things we take for granted....like job opportunities...are sadly lacking in other parts of the world.”[/color]

Very true…

MEDC –

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It means leave the country if you can't find work there.
MEDC, in case you don’t know, a person must first qualify for immigration according to the “point systems” of different countries (skills; qualifications etc.) and secondly a person must have the right resources available to do this.

Yesterday on another thread, TogetherAlone asked me whether my H and I have transferable skills and if we have ever considered emigration. My response was as follows:

”Yes, we have looked into this option a few times but not recently. My H has great experience in the IT field but unfortunately never completed his after school studies to obtain a formal qualification in this. Because of this he doesn’t have enough “points” on the “point systems” of most countries to qualify for emigration. I on the other hand have a good tertiary qualification (degree) but lack enough experience in my specific field of study. This has an influence on the “point systems” of most countries too. Also, for emigration a minimum amount of money have to be transferred by the immigrants to the country of immigration and this is our greatest concern since the money value (R value) in my country is [i]extremely low against the $, euro etc. So yes, although we will experience many obstacles with emigration, it is not an impossible option for us.”[/i]

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So Suzet_, you know I find it very sad that you use your excuses and rationalisations to justify your circumstances but I have a pertinent question for you - be super if you don't sidestep it too....

IF Dr Harley tells you that recovery is impossible in your circumstances what do you intend to do?

Have a follow up follow up question prepared?

You just have a pathelogical aversion to the truth IMO.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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BigK, since you have decided to not respond on THIS POST I've send to you yesterday, I have no intention or interest to respond to your questions.

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You just have a pathelogical aversion to the truth IMO.

I don't know what you're trying to imply with the above words (disrespectful judgement?), but as always you're entitled to your own opinion.

Take care.

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The implication here is that Dr. Harley's recommendations are good ideas but maybe only practical in the USA. This could be true.

I still go back to the second email where you ask about the false recovery. You might as well have said "Dr. Harley, I am not following your strict guidelines for economic reasons totally beyond my control but - tell me - do I look good in blue?". I just don't see the relevance of asking about false recovery to anything relevant to your very real problem of today. My impression is that you craft your questions to get the answer you want. This reminds me very much of what WW did when she contacted her friends during her A looking for enablers. Your posts on your thread have the appearance of a fogged out WW trying to protect her OM through all available means.

Again, why the email to Dr. H? Why the thread? Why even bring it up? Your mind was already made up.

I really have nothing more to add so I'll just bow out. I hope it all works out for you.

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Again, why the email to Dr. H? Why the thread? Why even bring it up? Your mind was already made up.
Again, I've send the e-mail to Dr Harley in August (for his input) after there was a debate on this forum on whether or not exposure to the OP spouse should take place in a situation where the BS doesn’t agree with exposure. After a few follow up e-mails I eventually received a response from him on Monday and I decided to put his response on here since a few members have asked me to send his response as soon as I receive it. That’s the reason why I’ve brought it up. But I’ve already told you so yesterday.

I’m sorry you view me as a fogged out WW who reminds you of your own WW Pio. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I think your perception about me is totally out of line and not objective at all.

Thanks for your good wishes… I hope everything works out for you too.

Take care.

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Suzet

as a FWW I do have to say that from experience informing the OBS does seem to work a lot more than if you do not.

However if my H, the person I hurt asked me NOT to do this, in other words we could not POJA it, I guess I'd try to say the danger is abc and if he was still saying no then I would reluctantly agree. He is the person I have to look after which I didn't do a job of before, so his wishes must come first.

However there is the danger of a ww manipulating the BS to agree to this also. However sometimes there may be issues the BS feels where he/she does not want to do this.

I'd encourage the BS to ask Dr Harley himself/herself as every situation may result in differing advice.
I would have to say that on the balance of evidence that you see here, informing the OBS is a good move to stop the OP contacting the WW or FWW ,,,, and perhaps from getting a belt as well.


Life may feel as if you are constantly getting kicked on a daily basis, living is about picking yourself up each day and going on and on and on regardless.

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Aussieswife,

Thanks for your input.

I 100% agree with your post...ALL of it.

I wish my H was interested in reading and posting on MB'ers (and posting to Dr Harley) himself. The only times he does read on here is if I print out threads and/or other material/articles on MB for him to read or specifically ask him to read something on the screen.

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Suzet

I know we have a skills shortage for IT architects and other software folks in Johannesburg. Is that too far for your H to commute ?

Our office is on Rivonia road,in Sandton.

If its not too far, perhaps I could find out what vacancies there are and get them to you somehow ?


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hey there

NBII

YOU'VE got mail ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pep

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You know, I think it's fascinating that someone can actually get a direct response from the source (Dr H) and STILL get blasted even tho their actions directly match up with what Dr H would have recommended to them to do in the first place.

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You know, I think it's fascinating that someone can actually get a direct response from the source (Dr H) and STILL get blasted even tho their actions directly match up with what Dr H would have recommended to them to do in the first place.

((( OWL )))

3rd NC letter says the opposite ... extraordinary precautions have not been taken ... refer to most important rule for recovery

God Bless You Owl & all the goodness you bring to the world

Pep

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<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Love the quote in your sig, Mr W.


Gotta love being able to learn new skills. The ability to learn and accept new things from all kinds of people is a good thing to have. Thanks for the acknowledgement

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