PIO!!!

CLICK HERE!!! You little antagonist you!!! tsk tsk...

Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Have you been drinking again?

Suzet,

Thank you for the acknowledgement...

What I said about God was *as much about myself* as you, and I stated that fairly clearly, I think. It was not an attack.

I also struggle with giving my problems to God and allowing HIM to guide me... i.e. not allowing my emotions to guide me... or what OTHERS tell me to say or do guide me. You share my struggle, clearly, or you would have put this situation (your job situation, specifically) in the lap of God long ago and LET GO of manipulating the outcome. How is this patronizing?

And also, as an aside, even trusting YOURSELF would be reason enough to respect your viewpoint. But to me, it seems like you rely way too much on what others think. If you truly believe what you're saying, then just say that and let it go. Quit trying to convince everyone. Does this make sense?

Listen,

In the last year or so, I have spent many months studying compassion for others and myself along with responsiblity to others and myself. If FH reads this thread, he'll remember a conversation we had many months ago about telling somoene there is a snake in the room. I said I believed in personal responsibilty (which I still do)... and that a person needs to look out for themself... it's not up to me to warn them of anything -- not my business.

The big difference TODAY is that I wouldn't now allow a friend to walk into the snake pit under the guise of allowing "personal choice"... I would WARN THEM. I am warning you, Suzet, of the pit I found.

There are consequences to saying what I believe-- which may lead to someone feeling 'harm' when no harm was intended (which is, I believe what starfish was saying in her response to me). Say I tell you about that pit, Suzet... and you twist your ankle running away from it? Is that my fault -- for telling you about it? Or will the fact that you weren't killed by the vipors outweigh you ankle that will heal in a few weeks? See what I mean, Suzet?

Pio,

I don't know why you have a problem with Bob Pure... or his offer... the lion's share of the responsibility is in Suzet's den (to continue the analogy). He is only seeing about an opportunity, not paying blood money to get her a job.

And while I agree with you that it's something Suzet could and should have done for herself before, she didn't... now she will. It's all good if the outcome is to get her out of the job where the OM is... and possibly, in the end, get the exposure done, once the obsticle of the loss of the job is out of the way.

Starfish,

At the risk of prolonging this conversation about harm, which I'm guessing only deflects from Suzet and her situation, I do appreciate your response. Maybe we'll have a discussion about it all one day... but not here and not now.

PS: Sometimes anger is just anger (although a psychotherapist would dissect that comment to bits and tell me all about secondary emotion vs. pure emotion... and core hurts... and FOO... and all that jazz. Good thing we're not psychotherapists <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.)

Apparently I don't understand the offer. The impression I get is that he is going to "pull strings" to get her a position. That strieks me as odd to do that for someone when you have no idea what their qualifications are and have no point of reference for their work or how good they are. While a nice gesture, if that is what is happening, it is wrong from a business perspective. I see people being placed in positions every day where I work for reasons other than a person is the most qualified for a job. I builds resentment within the organization.

OTOH if Nr. Pure is only offering to give her a listing of career opportunities in IBM where she lives, it still seems strange that Suzet would not have thought to ask that of IBM on her own. Surely they don't keep those things a secret. My impression is that, although Suzet complains loudly about not being able to leave her employment, the reality is that it is the last thing she wants to do. But maybe, as Mr. Pure was so kind in pointing out, it is just my "dirty little mind".

But when Suzet does leave her post and moves to another company, this will prove to everyone that I am totally wrong. I don't mind being wrong so will be happy to see that happen.

Pio - Let me join the dots here a little.....

Bob Pure didn't offer to pull any strings. He's providing a list of placements. He might even call HR in SA to say he knows someone who might be suitable - I see nothing unethical in that. Personal recommendations (not what BP is offering) are the way many jobs are filled the world over.

Suzet has repeatedly bleated that she cannot possible get another job etc etc etc. Well let's see if she even really wants one. My guess is there is another justification and rationalisation being prepared right now.

Please do not tell BP he is foggy. Pio - BP is a good man trying to help someone out. Nothing more. At the end of the day Suzet and her Hubby have to be qualified and win a job on their own merits. I'd help you in exactly the same way if I was in a position to do so.

BigK,

I'll just stay off this thread (as I said I would earlier). The whole thing is smoke and mirrors. Everything seems to distract from what this thread should really be about and that is refusal to expose (for whatever reason) to try to protect the M. So rather than distract from the original issue, I'll stay away forever and let Suzet debate her original point without interruptions.

Piojitos

You have used a "dirty bomb" on this thread, you cannot pretend you have a single agenda in your conclusion post - Suzet's refusal to expose here. You accused me TOTALLY unfoundedly of "unethical business practices" , refused to answer any of my direct points to you and instead leave the thread presumably hoping your limp accusations leave the stench of corruption hanging over me - a person who has never even spoken to you previously, let alone caused you hurt.

I would wish you ill, but there is no need as I suggest your personality as demonstrated here on this thread will bring that particular destiny to your door regardless of external input.

I look forward to us never conversing again.

So now I’m finally being accused of:

1. being a hypocrite;
2. being dishonest (and lying about my dishonesty);
3. pretend being something I’m not;
4. put up a façade to make others believe I’m something I’m not;
5. being like a fogged out WS still in A <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Unbelievable… And I’m accused of all the above things after I’ve always been honest on these boards about EVERYTHING that’s going on in my life e.g. the resumption a few months ago; non-exposure to OM’sW etc. If I wanted to be dishonest I would have pretended that me and my H exposed to OM’sW and lied about it OR I would have stayed silent about the resumption of the EA a few months ago... But I didn’t.

The worst of all here is that I’m being compared to a woman (FC) who is operating with dishonesty, deception and secrecy in her marriage...and who is doing this for YEARS now (and plan to do it until she goes to her grave).

NEWSFLASH: FC was NOT a newbie. A newbie is someone who has just discovered this website and not been aware and educated of the MB principles yet. FC KNEW all the MB principles too well and has been reading on these boards for a long time even before she started posting (she stated this herself and said herself she was well aware and educated on MB principles through self-studying). So BigK and Pio please stop “justifying” and “rationalizing” FC’s behavior at the time (by saying that she was a "newbie") and stop trying to look for “excuses” on why you didn’t try to “lecture” her on her wrong ways or didn’t try to change her mind, because if you’re doing this, you both sound like “fogged out” people too...

Well, if my “hipocacy” is so evident to EVERYONE but me, then probably the time has arrived for me to stop posting here and stop advising others too.

New Beginning II has posted to me:

“And also, as an aside, even trusting YOURSELF would be reason enough to respect your viewpoint. But to me, it seems like you rely way too much on what others think. If you truly believe what you're saying, then just say that and let it go. Quit trying to convince everyone.”

It’s true…I’ve started to rely too much on what others on this board think of me... I’ve become emotionally too invested in this place…and in the process I’ve become too vulnerable/sensitive to the careless & hurtful remarks and false accusations/judgments of a few posters on this board who appear to don’t really give a $hit about me at all... It has become too painful…and it’s not healthy for me anymore. It’s time for me to cut loose.

I want to thank those of you who’ve become friends and/or mentors to me during my few years on this forum…including the people who gave me well deserved 4 x 4’s and “straight talk” (in a non-insulting way) during the times I needed it. I appreciate the time, energy, advice and friendship you’ve all invested in me…even the people I originally didn’t see eye to eye with and still had "fights"/disagreements with now and then...but who I know really care and have compassion for me after all... You all know who you are so I’m not going to mention any names (in case I leave someone out). I will miss this place...and I will also miss many people on here… This place has become a huge (TOO huge) part of me...and it’s time to let go.

Bob, I’m so sorry your sincere gesture of help to me and my H has lead to attacks towards you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> We will still be on the lookout for the information, but because of the "mess" on this thread, I will completely understand if you should decide to retract your offer.

Blessings to all…and blessings to all the “recovered” and “still in recovery” marriages on MB.

Oh Suzet, don't go. There are so few FWS's here to balance out the whole mess of infidelity. It seems to me that often BS's vent against the (F) Waywards here in a way they wouldn't do against their own spouses.

Nothing wrong with taking a break from MB but please don't feel pushed away.

I'm pretty sure most Human Resources companies can work out for themselves who is right or wrong for a position. Nearly all my husband's jobs over the years have involved some degree of "it's not what you know, it's who you know". TT

Suzet,

FWIW, that comment you cited was for BigK and he knows who I am talking about and it wasn't you. You were not who I had in mind when I wrote that post. He and I had exchanged several emails previously so he knows exactly what hypocrisy I am referring to. If you have any questions or comments about that, you can post them on the TKO thread. I am not inclined to name the person I was referring to on the forum. It is a can of worms that doesn't need to be opened as I have to respect ToddAC's wishes. You also failed to copy that entire FC post. Not really sure that it matters but I did have some negative things to say about FC too that you failed to include.

I’m sorry but I don’t believe you Pio. Bigk has directly mentioned my name as response on your post on TKO. If the two of you were referring/talking about someone else in your private e-mails, my name wouldn’t have come up in Bigkahuna’s response to you on that thread...

You also uttered things to Bigk in that post which are as clear to me as the light of day that you were referring to me in that post.

Firstly there was all the talk about “justifications” and secondly you said something extremely similar to BigK than you have said to me last week e.g:

TO ME:

”This reminds me very much of what WW did when she contacted her friends during her A looking for enablers. Your posts on your thread have the appearance of a fogged out WW trying to protect her OM through all available means.”

TO BIGK:

”I made an critical observation about an action of a poster and all I saw was indignant justification. Do you know what it reminded me of? A fogged out WS justifying an A.”

The other clue that I KNOW you were talking about me is the discussion about FC by you and Bigk and the timing it has taken place (just after I've mentioned her in my post to Bigk). You see, I’ve brought up the issue about FC first, so I don’t see it as a co-incidence that you and Bigk brought up FC in your discussions too. Nope...I don't buy it...

Well, while all this talk about hypocrisy between you and Bigk were going on, I find it very funny that Bigk refer to me as a hypocrite too. Or was this co-incidence too??? I don’t think so… His exact words to me was: ” Your absolute hipocracy is evident to everyone but you.”

Wanted to make this clear before I finally bow out from this place… <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Since I seem to be quite a sore subject with many of you I have refrained from posting to anyone's threads. However, I have continued to read with interest some of the more interesting threads. Since I seem to still be the topic dejour I chose to chime in.

I have but one comment to make. And that is for a bunch of people who are seeking support and help from one another, you surely do seem to have a lot of misplaced anger. YOu are so busy beating one another over the head with 2x4's and berating those who do not follow to the letter the MB plans that you fail to exhibit any compassion concerning human qualities that we all possess. We are all flawed, none of us is perfect, we may strive to be, but I defy any one of you to show me someone who is perfect in all respects. Those who set themselves up as perfect will be the ones who eventually take the hardest falls. I think you all need a big dose of humility. Your clay feet are showing.


P. S. Big K if you were shell shocked by my admissions, you must live in "la la land". I am by no means unique in that I chose not to share with my H in order to afford him some protection from the hurt that would ensue. The problem was with me, not with him, I see no reason to visit that hurt upon him. There are all sorts of people who live in denial about their marriages and don't want to know the truth and in that delusion, they manage to be pretty happy. They don't have perfection, but they don't expect to.
Some of us have lived long enough to understand that we don't have to have perfection to be happy and satisfied and indeed it is an impossible goal when dealing with humans.

So now........... let the beating commence. FC

Suzet,

Someone has been sending a series of emails aside from the forum. Unless that was you, you are not the one I was talking about. ToddAC has asked that I leave the matter to him. BTW, I know who it is and it wasn't you. Sorry to disappoint. This other person has been a huge trigger for me. So much so that I was ready to divorce gemela because I had come to the conclusion that there would never be a way to truly trust a FWW. I have since gotten over that and placed a few people on ignore because of it. Obviously I can still see your posts.

As for BigK's comments, I have nothing to do with those so have no opinion.

And FWIW FC, I told you that I think you have every right to make your own thread here and I would gladly post to you without much whacking. I think you are dead wrong in what you are doing but I think you need to talk about it. That is the only way to change your mind.

Pio, here's the problem with my starting a thread of my own. Buried in TKO I attracted all sorts of vultures the minute I tried to tell the truth. Why would I want to set myself up for a verbal berating. It does me no good, I am not trying to persuade anyone that my situation is optimal, I am not espousing it as the proper way for everyone to handle their marriage.

I am truly sorry if my behavior triggered you to the point that you thought Gamela would be just like me. I think that the basic problem here is that one size just doesn't fit all. Not all marriages are the same, not all goals in marriages are the same,not all FWW are the same there are always extenuating circumstances in every situation. i.e. alcoholism in some cases, true mental illness in others, pure evil in some, and just human frailty in others. I simply do not think you can force ALL affairs and their remedies into a particular pigeon hole.

My original aim in posting was to be supportive of those here who were enduring a great amount of hurt and I admired the humor and the courage. I have been and continue to be extremely concerned for Todd's welfare.

If you think Gamela will be just like me and you have zero tolerance for it then you have justification for a divorce. However, give the woman a chance. She may be a complete 180 from someone like me. If you want your marriage to heal and become better, you have to at least be watchful for indications that she will meet your standards rather than assume that she will do what I have done.

What I think you neglect to see is that some people for whatever reason are good people but they do bad things. One bad thing in a lifetime of good should not be the broad brush that they are painted with.

Respectfully, FC

FC,

You did not trigger me. I do have some fundamental issues with your sitch for obvious reasons but I still admire your honesty on the forum. I don't think I ever whacked you. I also think that, with support, you might change your position. I also feel sorry for you in a way.

Well, if nothing else, I am glad that I didn't trigger you. I was worried about that. And no you never whacked me it was others. I think that projection of one's situation onto another is a major problem on this board and sometimes it seems to get in the way of one's recovery.

I didn't like and still would not like to have to prove the unprovable and that was that I was someone else besides myself. And then to see it admitted later in a thread that the accuser really didn't think what she had voiced was true was particularly galling. I see no useful purpose to that kind of crap.

I appreciate that you feel sorry for me, but i am a big girl and I have had to rely on myself for a very long time and I don't have anyone but myself to blame for my plight. I am coping with it is the best possible manner for me and for those who do not know the personalities involved it's nothing but a series of DJ's to assign motives to me that they know nothing of.

But all that being said, I am very relieved that my situation did not bother you in that manner. I was afraid that I was responsible for more hurt to you and others and no one needs more hurt.

Thanks for letting me know. FC

I suppose I am the guilty "vulture" who dared to object to your rationalizations about not confessing your affair to your husband.

But, wouldn't common sense dictate that the real "vulture" here is the one who had a filthy affair and then insists on lying to her victim about it? Wouldn't the real "vulture" be the one who keeps her husband in a marriage based on a lie and allowing him to be exposed to her affair partner in complete ignorance of her filthy affair?

And then comes to a thread with wounded men to gloat with warped rationalizations about her successful deceit?

If objecting to that vile behavior meets your definition of a "vulture" then I consider that a compliment coming from you, dear.


Lying is never a good "fit," so there is no "size" for lying and manipulation that will ever "fit." Your problem is not that your "remedy" is different, but that lying is NEVER a remedy. Honesty is the only solution to infidelity. Lying about your affair is not just another viable "option," as you attempt to tell yourself, but an extenuation of the cruelty you heap upon your victim. First you victimized him by having an affair, and then you compounded the crime with your silence and by allowing him to see the OM socially.

Fraidycat, you and I both know that you won't start a thread, not because people would be "triggered," but because people here can and do see right through your bullcrap. [censored] has a short shelf life here and you know this.

One does not have to have been the victim of adultery to feel disgusted by adultery or lying; that is the reaction of any decent person. That is not "projection," as you call it, but DECENCY. Decent people are outraged by injustice.

You might be able to fool your very foggy self with this nonsense, but you know this would never stick to the wall around here.

If you're referring to keeping the truth of having an affair (aka who you REALLY are) from your husband, I'd offer you're continuing to manipulate your husband and your marriage. Controlling him in a very disprespectful & arrogant manner by not allowing him to make his own decisions and choices about his marriage to you by informing him of the TRUTH.

Your smoke screens and real agenda of "why you're not telling him" are nothing new to the MB membership. And you're right, your excuses and justifications are very ordinary for someone who advocates cheating.

This is the BIGGEST bunch of ******** EVER!!! You don't care a **** *** about protecting your husband...You care ONLY about protecting YOURSELF and your LIES and DECEIT and your AFFAIR...Keeping your husband in the dark serves YOU!!! You are right about one thing, you are NOT unique-liars are poor company to keep!!!


This is TRUE, but does NOT justify continued LYING to your husband!!!


You have ALREADY visited that HURT upon him and are only compounding it by continuing to LIE to him!!!

***********************************************

Mrs. W

Pio, I rest my case. There's no point in setting myself up for being attacked. I don't really care what ML thinks, and I will be blocking her. And Resilient, I don't care what you think either. I have not and will not ask for either of your opinions ever.

And it's a little known fact that when fightened or startled off their perch, vultures first throw up and then fly. I don't care to be barfed on. Not my idea of any kind of humane way to treat someone whether or not you agree with them. It's pure unadulterated hostility and I would have thought that it had no place in a primarily service oriented web-site.

Just plain rude. I guess it takes all kinds