I love my wife. Plain and simple as that. Unfortunatley, she says that she is unsure if she loves me. She says that I hold a place in her heart for the time we have spent together and the kids that we have together. She spends alot of time with OM, and has a lot of male friends. One of them, she has a I love you note in his profile on her cell phone. I find it hard to trust that she dosent have feelings for him because of this and that she acts the same way around him as she did me when we dated.

To say the least, I am very afraid that I am going to lose her, and I see him as direct competition for her love.

Any suggestions on how to confirm her feelings for the OM, and find out if she has feelings for me? Also I am open for suggestions on how to show that I love her more than anyone else. Its odd, because the OM has a girlfriend....

Any advice is welcome and appriciated.

I originally posted this in emotional needs, and there was a comment about her having an emotional affair. Im kinda lost on that one.

OK, I am not the expert, but I'll start.
Why your W has so many male friends that are also not your friends? Work? Previous friendships?
As commonplace as it sounds, friendships of opposite sex are the most dangerous place. You start as a friend and soon it is an EA, then a PA.

You should not only hold a place in her heart, you (and kids) should hold her whole heart!
Don't settle for less.

Hold until the experts come with more sound advice!

"I love you but I'm not IN love with you" (and variations like hers), are in the category of stupid foggy stuff they say. If you can recover your marriage, she'll be astounded by some of the stuff she thought/did while still in it. So please don't dwell on it. You'll drive yourself completely insane if you obsess over all the bizarre stuff that spouts from her.

On a side note, since she's having an affair then OF COURSE she's not loving you the way she should. That would be obvious to anyone but a WS.

KD454

How about some more details about you M? Length of time, Courtship, prior M's, Kids, what's been going on in the Marriage (M).

I think your Wife (W) is a Wayward Wife (WW) She is probably having a Affair (A). She may be having an Emotional Affiar (EA) or a Physical Affair (PA) She may be having them with more than one.

You are in the right place if you want to fix your M. Lots of support here.

Lousygolfer may suck at golf but he is a very good marriage builder.

He and others can give you a great plan to save your marriage.

JS

Hi Kustom,

The reason why a lot of WS give the "I love you but am not in love with you" speech is because they are experiencing some of the same feelings they once had with you when your love was new and now they are experiencing it with the other man and enjoy those strong feelings that come from those chemicals that surge and course through their bodies.

Thus explains the I love you, but am not in love with you.

What she really means is, I don't feel the feelings with you that I feel with the OM. I used to, but don't now, so I must not be in love with you.

She is confusing chemical rushes from the EA with true love.

Sad but true.

As far as you reading your wife's response of whether she loves you, I saw right off the bat that my husband was in love with the OW by asking him pointblank whether he was in love with her. His mouth said no, but his eyes said yes.

You know your wife better than any other person. The gut doesn't lie. If you suspect it, more than likely it is so.

The good news is that you have Dr. Harley's concepts to help you recover your marriage and the supplemental advice of the non-proffesional MBers here.

Read up on Plan A and all the concepts you will find on this website.

Plan A = Improving yourself + exposing the affair.

Recovering your marriage = NO CONTACT EVER with OM + Radical Honesty + 15 hours of recreational time together + POJA + eliminating Lovebusters.


Don't give up,


k.d.'s heartbreak

A big block fan, eh?

As already stated, the ILYBINILWY speech is common to all WSs. Especially women tend to look at love as a magical kind of thing. It is something they "fall into" and therefore can "fall out of".

Your marriage can be recovered, but be ready to put in some hard work and don't expect any magic. There is nothing that can turn around a failing marriage in days or even weeks when the problems have existed for years.

Be sure to read the basic concepts and anything else you are led to read on this site. Also read Longhorn's thread pinned to the top of the Just Found Out forum as well as other threads for newbies and newly betrayed spouses.

Read up on Plan A and be sure you understand what it is. Get ready for a real roller coaster ride of emotions, and prepare for what passes for 'speaking' that comes from the wayward. Come here to vent and ask for help. Show only your love to your W.

I'd also recommend that you read the Spying 101 thread and do some digging to find out exactly what is going on. You don't have to find proof that will hold up in court, but seldom does a confronted spouse admit they are cheating when confronted, even with real proof; so gather as much intel as you can and then lay it out, not accepting any excuses or explanations that require that you ignore your gut feelings. First of all, you need to know what ios going on, at least the gist of it.

Most of all, be aware that you are not alone and what you are going through has been experiences by nearly all betrayed spouses. We've been there, done that, heard that and all that...

Good luck and hang on, it's gonna bumpy!

Mark

Thanks for the advice guys. I just was dealt a heavy blow today. I let her in on one of my counciling sessions and it went very well. In fact I belive that she was truly interested. Now comes the part that really hurt me. I have 110% reason to belive that she is having an EA with a mutual friend. She gave me the look that she always does when she is lying to me. I caught them holding hands. She acts like her and I did when we were dating around him. I want to expose the affair, but I belive that she thinks that there isnt one.

I still love her, and she shows me no affection. She showers the OM with it. She is a very attractive woman and her and the OM have dated in the past. She has an attorney to divorce me but she hasnt really put much into it. I would like to know from her if she is just pulling the wool over my eyes. I feel I am being set up to be slammed down.

Please help!

I also thank all of you personally for the support that you have given. I am glad that I am here and hopefully I will bust the affair in its infancy stage.

I forgot to add a little history on our marriage. We married shortly after we both graduated HS at the age of 19. We were very together. On our first anniversary we concived our son. We moved to Missouri, she wanted to be near her mom while she was pregnant. About 6 months after our son was born, she almost divorced me because the arguments were so bad between us. I attempted suicide to get her attention, not knowing at the time that I had bouts of depression and was unmedicated. We moved back to Montana where we currently live. We have reconciled for the most part, but I have a lingering problem of her being unfaithful to me when we were dating. IN GODS EYES WE WERE MARRIED AT THE TIME OF THE INCIDENT. She was with one of her friends, and they both were drunk. She went downstairs with her friends boyfriend, and they had sex. I forgave her once, but I belive that once a cheater, always a cheater.

Just about a year ago, we found out that she was pregnant with a second child, which is our daughter. About 6 months or so we both became emotionally distant because of arguments that we have had. A month ago, in an angry outburst I kicked her out of the house, and she took the kids with her. I caused a scene with her at my daughters doctor visit, and they called child protective services. She was forced to get a restraining order against me, or risk loosing our kids. IMO she has started to come back, but I feel that she is quickly drifting away to the arms of another man. Every time I ask her about thier relationship, she tells me she dosent know and gets a coy smile on her face and looks me in the eyes. In the 5 years I have been with her, that is a dead give away that she is lying. I have caught them hugging, and today they were holding hands. She is always borrowing clothes of his, and lending things of mine to him. I need to know how to quickly deposit a HUGE amount of love units to make her realize that our marriage is very much alive, and to stamp out her affair. She is very indecicive with me, and I wonder if she is giving me hints as to how to win her back. I see her OM as direct competition for her love. I said it once, and even my councilor who met with both of us today said that my fear of her wandering is just, but unnececary. He even said that she was a beautiful woman. Flowers never hurt, but I dont want to down money on something thats going to hit the trash. I never showered her with gifts before, so I am unsure of how they will be recived.

Thanks lousygolfer and all those that have offered advice. I am sorry that I dont remember all the ones that have posted. I also want to note one thing. I did have an internet affair with another woman, could this be payback for it?

Post deleted by kustomdlx454

Affairs and abuse can be a deadly combination.

She needs to feel safe with you. How can she be herself with you if you are violent?

Focus on treating her well. That is what Dr. Harley calls Plan A. Put into your mind the objective, not that you will stop an affair, not that you will compete against OM and win, but that you will be tender and kind to her.

You have no competition because you are the father of her children. Approach her with the view that you will win out over any other man in the universe on that fact alone, based on your behavior, not based on your behavior vs. the behavior of the other man or men.

Be gentle, caring, considerate, tender...

Respectful

kustom...

First of all- delete that picture URL as you have an usecure photobucket account. I saw all of your photos! Nothing bad but not a good idea...

Second- Most likely your wife is involved in much more than an EA, if they're holding hands they have most likely been intimate....

You need to expose this affair...read son, read this site and pay attention to Emotional Needs, DJ's, POJA, Plan A...start the plan and live it. One thing that grows old with some of us "old timers" is people who think that they can do it their way....look, the principles of this site work, sometimes, sometimes they do not. Many of us may appear to have crystal balls, we do not. We have been there ourselves or watched others live it. There is a process we have all seen and the first one I see is "I love you but..."

There is a reason why this has happened...there always is...own your part of it and move forward. It is a brutal process, one that will rip your guts out and put them on the table for you to stare at....once the affair has ended is truly the hard part...there are steps...read up...and I mean take hours and read up...LISTEN and BE STILL....

Good luck...

If she usess the computer to talk to him, get a keylogger. If she uses the home phone, get a recorder. When you get proof, expose to the other man's girlfriend. That usually slows down an affair.

KD454:

I was never violent. I never had a restraining order. You need to address these issues in yourself or there is no reason to worry about your M, your relationships for the rest of your life are going to be in trouble.

You and your W are both still young. You both have alot of learning to do. This place is a good one to start with. The more information you give, the more we can help. Stick around, its amazing the changes to come.

I am proof of these changes, and this website and the enlightment it gave me.

My advice pure and simple.

You need IC. What I am seeing is an M where your W isn't safe.

Child protective services, kicking her out, suicided attempt lead me to believe that you really should be seeing someone to deal with these problems.

IMVHO you need to deal with these issues. Not saying you can't save your M but I would start with IC. Maybe tell the W you want to work on yourself and this M. But you need to do your part in making yourself a good H.

There are always reasons for an A. The reasons for the A need to be addressed as well.

Looking at your part in this I cannot see how your W can feel safe in that environment. I cannot see how she could even feel safe admitting an A at this point.

JMVHO.

Have you read this thread in it's entirety???

Link ---> For Newly Betrayed Spouses

Flowers ain't gonna cut it. Behaving desparately and needy ain't gonna cut it. Love bank deposits alone do not have any effect on addictive behaviors. In fact, alone...they enable it. You need to snoop, get the evidence to overcome the wall of denial and expose. Once the affair ends...then you can perhaps recovery your marriage.

Be sure to link off of Longhorns signature line to the "Spying 101" thread. Lots of juicy snooping techniques in there.

You will make it.

Mr. Wondering

Please read this again before suggesting he snoop on his W.

This has anger issues written all over it to me.

So lets give him all the ways to snoop which might cause anger and hope the W is safe?

Get some help for yourself first.

You were not married when she had SF with that man. You hada choice to marry her or not when you found out. You married her. Not once a cheater always a cheater.

You admit to an EA do you hold yourself to that standard?

Next it is pretty obvious that the person that is causing these fights is you. Kicking your W and kids out of the house. Why didn't you leave?

How did you get her out? Did she freely pick up and go or did you scare her or push her out? CAn't imagine a woman leaving the house because you told her too.

I understand the idea of the site is to help people get past an A. IMVHO IC is needed before something bad happens to his W.

Thanks for the advice, all of you. I am going to counceling, to work on an anger impulisivity issue that I do have. I have reason to belive that I have exposed her affair, she has told me that she would back off. I said hugging as friends is ok, but dont hang on it forever. We are going to start pastoral counceling and she has been to one of my counceling visits. She is starting to open up more aobut how she would like to see the relationship go. I will post more later, as I need to go to work.

I hold myself accountable for the EA that I had over the internet. I fell that right now if I asked for an apology, I wouldnt get a sincire awnser. I see whats happening between the OM and my W because I was once there too.

I didnt leave because of foolish male pride. I belived that since I was the one paying the bills, I shouldnt have to leave.

I really want to say she left on her own, but I belive that she was afraid of me, and also sick of our arguments. Our marriage was in a state of withdrawl at the time and it was like we had an agreement to keep the peace for the kids.

I feel horrible for all that I have done. I have been going to counceling for over a month now, and I dont intend on stopping. She mentioned something about feeling like a sex object last night, and I screwed up. I told her that I didnt want to because I felt like she was emotionally ugly. What I should have said is that I dont fell enough of an emotional connection between the two of us. She also told me that I have trust issues to work out and I need to quit nagging on her so much about her OM. She says friendship, I say affair. Then again, maybe I dont trust her because I feel I may not be able to trust myself.

kustom,

The point of bringing up your EA is that your statememt was once a cheater always a cheater with the W. If so then what does that make you. In other words you made a disrespectful judgement of your W.

Next your W needs to feel safe to tell you about her A. I can't see how you are providing that. If she is indeed having one.

A month of IC is not a lot, certainly not a lot considering the issues.

Your emotionally ugly statement. Disrespectful Judgement and a Love Buster.

She says friendship you say affair. How about saying it is an inappropriate friendship and I would like it to end.

Not to make light of your sitch but the issues that led to the deterioration of your M need to be dealt with.

I don't even know what advice to give you at this point. Plan A the best you can. Tell her you know you have problems and you know she needs more and that is why you are going to IC.

I agree with you on the cheater statement. I dont believe that she is having an EA, I was making a disrespectful judgment on her. I apologized about the comment I made about her being emotionally ugly. I told her that what I really meant is that I didnt want to have sex with her if there wasnt an emotional connection between the two.

I know that I have anger impulsivity issues. I am working on correcting my behavior. I also belive that we need to work on the issues that are eating our marriage up. One of them would be my lack of trust for her. There are tons more but that is one of the big ones I think.

On a side note, last night I found out some information about her friend. He has some issues with child protective services and my wife is concerned about what he does so that he dosent loose his daughter. Albeit a rumor, he was said to have been sleeping with a certain someone. My wife then told me that she asked who he had been with sexually, and before I took it as her testing the waters with him, I asked her how come she asked him. She said it was pertaining to his daughter, so I left it alone. Then she told me that things were going to slow way down between them. She also asked me if I made it up to cause a fight between them and I said no. I felt that it was something that she needed to know about. She then told me if I was lying to her, I was in big trouble. I asked her about thier friendship, and she said if he lied to her, it was more than likely over.

Frog, we have been talking together for some time now. I think that the more conversations we have without love busters, the closer we are coming. She says she isnt shure if she loves me. I believe that if I put my cards on the table, and be honest with her, it will nurture the feelings she still does have for me. I dont believe I need to snoop on her. The more I am around her, the more I can trust her when we are alone. My biggest problem is that lately I have been making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Thanks again for the advice.
Kustom