I haven’t posted here much, but have been reading for about 9 months. The site is great.

I guess you could say I’ve been in a half kind of plan b for the past 6. We have contact because we have a 2 year old and WH is now living in my country and has absolutely no-one here – friends or family – except a few of my friends who have been willing to have a drink with him. We spent our first 4 years of marriage in his country and then moved over to mine in December 05. Funny how he sent me and our baby over 3 months ahead of him while he stayed under the pretence of needing to do his boss a favour and work up to Christmas. He had free reign with his girlfriend – in our house! – while I was none the wiser.

Anyway, my question is – from the moment I found out about his affair (which was on day 2 of him finally arriving out here (and what father would chose to be away from his 15 month old daughter (at the time) for 3 months??))…he hasn’t made a single move to try and save our marriage. He’s offered…and when I asked ‘why?’ his reply was ‘because everyone tells me I HAVE to and that I don’t have a choice…but I wish I did’. He seems to know the right things to say, has always ‘talked the talk’ but when it comes to action….nothing. Hasn’t once in the last 9 months asked me how I am…said he WANTS to be in our marriage…just the usual fog stuff that he shouldn’t have married me and how even though he knows he’s committed the most hurtful act possible….if I had been the wife I should have been, he wouldn’t have turned away.

So…back to my question!! My H has always known how to do the talking…but not the walking…so I’ve taken the last 9 months to watch. Watch and see what he does. He’s still in contact with his girlfriend (who apparently is just waiting for the go-ahead from him before she can move out here and they can get on with their life together…and before he can tell her to come on over he’s waiting on the go-ahead from me to end our marriage (he needs me to do this so he can always say he tried but I wouldn’t let him). So, I’ve watched and waited (he’s not had any answer from me yet and we’re coming up for 5 months since he told me he wanted my final decision). He’s never asked me out for a drink…he’s never said he loves me…and he told me he would not be begging and crawling to me. I told him I wasn’t after him begging and crawling…I just wanted to know I was worth fighting for….nothing. Silence. Even sent me a text message with kisses in it that was intended for her.

So…is 10 months (all up) long enough to sit and wait and get nothing? We can divorce in January and I know…unless he suddenly gets a back bone…that it will be me that will have to file.

I love this man. I always felt I was more committed to him than he was to me, but what would I be taking back? He’s not sorry, he doesn’t care about me at all it seems and I’m just absolutely blown away by the way he has been able to toss me out the window for a better model. I don’t know how I will ever get over the way he has so completely and utterly abandoned me and his child for a homewrecker. Of course I wasn’t a perfect wife. Of course I made mistakes…but at what point is it better for all concerned walk away and get on with my life? I’m 30, he’s 26…and an affair after only 3 years of marriage is not a great prognosis for a lasting marriage….is it? I just want to say that if my H had been truly sorry and had wanted to save our marriage….I would have.
Thanks for listening

It's possible that your WS was never more than skin deep in the marriage.

However...you won't really KNOW that unless you work the program for REAL not halfway.


What have you got to lose?

If you WANT out you were justified in kicking him to the curb on Dday...anything beyond Dday is mercy not something you owe him.

If you WANT to try for the best odds in breaking up the affair and then try for restoration of the marriage why not invest in a complete and considered plan A followed by a complete and considered plan B.

The halfway/sorta/kinda/sometimes plan B is completely worthless in ending an affair but really helpfull in training the WS to not respect you.

Thanks Noodle. I think in all honesty I'm finding it hard to just admit that I don't want to try. Our relationship has always been so difficult and led to me self-harming early on (though I'm completely over this and haven't done it in 3 years). My husband is extremely attractive and I never felt I was 'worthy' and he's always loved female attention and has a history of flirting etc. I think I've just been so hurt i'm now deeply in self-protection mode. Our circumstances have made it harder to save our marriage and easier to walk away...because we never got to start our life in this country before I found out about his affair...which means we've never lived together here - I'm back home with Mum & Dad - and we don't own anything. He chose to live 1.5 hours away when he arrived back in the country (he got on a plane back to england the night I found out about his affair and then returned here to support his daughter about 4 months later). I've been so sweet to him the last 5 months trying to make myself as approachable as possible...invited him to church etc etc...absolutely no LB'ing has been going on at all! Not an unkind word...nothing! And even with that he's made no move to ask me out, ask me how I am, or suggest any way to save our marriage. If I did decide to try, how could I ever feel human around him when he's told me he looks at me and feels nothing (he said he started to have doubts about his attraction for me before we were married because he found himself looking at other women when he used to only have eyes for me) and how could I live up to 'her' who he says he never has trouble making converstation with while he always found it difficult with me('I couldn't contrive conversation with you that simply wasn't in me').

I think I'm just too shattered to try.

lucy,

Explain to him in no uncertain terms that you will never end this M. If he really wants out that is up to him. I told the FWW that you started it with the A do not chicken out now. Do not relieve your conscience by saying I ended the M because I couldn't get over the A.

So now you need to decide on a course of action. Jump in and try or jump out. You cannot halfway do anything 100%.

His excuses are just that excuses. Of course everything was easy with her. It was a fantasy. No bill talk, No child talk, No real life talk. Just fantasy. That's great. But sooner or later it will need to become real and see if he can maintain that.

He has eyes for other women and not just you. Oh please. I have loved my FWW since almost day one. I still looked at other women. Right wrong or indifferent it didn't change the fact I loved my FWW. I didnt' disrespect her and look in front of her etc. but please.

He is looking for a way out and he wants you to give it to him. Don't do it. If he really wants out let him finish what he started but on your part you need to try to make that a very tough decesion for him.

lucyloo,

You have gotten some GREAT advice from Noodle and frog but that advice and a euro will get you a cup of tea UNLESS YOU TAKE ACTION TO CORRECT YOUR SITUATION.

I have often written this to BS's and WS's alike: Children expect someone else to fix their problems, adults fix their own problems.

Best of luck and I wish you and your child the strength necessary to fix your lives.

Thanks Frognomore.

I love him. Fullstop. It's funny...when we were having pre-marriage counselling I told my minister 'If H ever cheated on me, it would mean the end of our marriage...but I would never stop loving him'. What made me say that? It was like I knew the end before it even started... or maybe it was just my deepest fear talking. I believed he might have been capable to having a ONS, but NEVER imagined this. We were so in love.

Can I just sit and wait longer and keep praying and giving God the chance to step in and save our marriage, or is it, as you said, time to decide on a course of action. The sitting in limbo is really hard but I don't know which way to jump.

His own family have told me he's just gutless and like you said, needs me to give him the way out. Should I be strong and do as you suggest - tell him to finish what he started and in essence MAKE him choose which way he wants to go...or just give him what he wants and get on with my life.

To be fair to him, I've never said 'I want to save our marriage' because I've never known if I've really wanted to, so I've never made him an attractive offer to come back to. What I HAVE said is 'Get her out of your life completely, utterly and totally and THEN I will consider reconciliation'. He pretended to, but was in contact with her within a week...which he kept secret from me and then gave me the excuse that he owed her money and had to get her bank account details when I confronted him about it. I told him to go jump - so he did....straight back to her.

I don't want to make it easy for him to bring OW over here to my country and let her become a part of our childs life...so at the moment I know I'm holding her back...and the reason he HAS to make me do his dirty work is that he's the son of a prominant pastor and even held a position within our church. If he really loved her, wouldn't he tell me and everyone else to go jump? One of his greatest complaints about me was that I cared too much about what other people thought. Isn't he doing the same?

Sorry this is so dis-jointed. My mind is going at a hundred km's an hour!

Thank you Cymanca,

I'm hearing what you're saying. I need to be an adult. I think it's time for action. I'm just scared.

Thank you.

lucy,

We are all scared, including yours truly. Beg my pardon if I sound corny but courage is not the abscence of fear but the willingness to proceed in spite of that fear.

Unlike me, you also have the dichotomy of this tragedy happening not only to you but also to your baby. You also have the gift of your child's presence and needs to guide you along your way.

I know...you're right. And part of my problem is trying to figure out what really is best for our child. Would she rather an intact but unhappy family...or separate but happy parents? I let WS see her whenever he wants.

I've been sitting here writing him a letter. I wonder if you could tell me what you think. As I said, there has been no conversation between WH and I for 5 months now about our relationship in any form. I've had absolutely no idea if he's feelings have changed at all for OW or for me, so feel this letter might give me some answers which would help me along my path in making a decision either way.

What do you think? Is it ok? I'm happy for any changes or suggestions!

Hi WS,

I know you are probably waiting for my answer still on our marriage and any possibility of reconciliation. I haven’t felt like I’ve had an answer for you. I still don’t. Although 99% of what you’ve said has told me that you have no desire to save our marriage or be with me anymore, there has been that 1% that has left a question mark in my mind.

I was wondering if you would answer some questions for me. I’m writing them so you can think about them and take the time to answer them in the way you would want. I’m always happy to discuss these things face to face however. I would ask that this please remains private between you and I and that you don’t share it with your girlfriend.

1. Is there anything I could have said or done to make you WANT to save our marriage? I was adamant at first that it was over, but in my heart I knew that if you’d told me you loved me and WANTED to save our marriage I would have. I wanted you on that plane and away from me because I knew how much I loved you and how easily I believe I would have taken you back.
2. Is it true that you doubted marrying me and was not sure that you loved me enough, or have you re-written history? Some of your comments on that have been confusing. ‘I knew I loved you with all my heart’ ‘If you’d given me a good enough reason to break up with you I would have…but with a wedding paid for…..’.I could understand the pull to remember things like it was all just a big mistake from the beginning but this had hurt deeply. If it’s true (and only you can truly know if it is) then I can accept it, but I’m just not sure if it is.
3. If you could have the marriage you’ve always wanted with someone that was fulfilling all your emotional (and physical) needs and you could picture yourself being happy, would you want that person to be me or someone else?
4. Have you really thought everything through? Are you convinced you’re doing the right thing?
5. Has the way you’ve handled things since I found out about your affair had anything to do with how stubborn you can be? Are you being stubborn about anything? Are you waiting for me to do something, anything? Do I have all the pieces of the puzzle? Are you happy and content that you have told me everything you want me to know?

I’d really appreciate your answers. Obviously I want to be able to give you an answer to your question sooner rather than later. I hope some of your answers will give me a few more pieces of the puzzle that I’ve been trying to put together over the last 10 months.

I still love you WS (I always will), I’m not afraid to admit that anymore and all I ask is that you be totally honest with me. Don’t tell me things you think I want to hear. If you’re sure you no longer love me, that’s all I want to know. I’m not going to crumble. I’m confident in God’s plans for my life - whatever that is and whoever it may be with. And I’m confident in your future too.

Love L

Did you do plan A?

No, there was no chance to. He sent my baby and I to my country where we were immigrating. He stayed in his country for 3 months under the illusion of work. When he arrived out here in Jan this year, I found out about his affair straight away. The day I found out he got on a plane and flew home to his country (we're talking the other side of the world!). He told me he didn't love me etc etc. All the usual. Then, about 4 months later he decided to move out here so he could support our baby. He's renting a flat 1.5 hours away. So we have been separated for 12 months altogether now. I never see him and he never ever called while he was in his country after the A came to light. We had a few discussions in the early weeks but nothing since. As far as any sort of Plan A goes...all I've been able to do is not LB at all...which I haven't. I've been sweet etc, letting him see his baby whenever he wants etc, but it's a case of dropping her off at the train station and picking her up at the end of the day because he won't come near my house with my parents here.

does anyone have any thoughts on my letter above to send to WH? I'm not sure if I should or not. Any help would be really appreciated

i'm awaiting what others have to say because i'm not familiar with how to have a plan B without first having a plan A

i'm not an expert...just another broken heart

I'm not sure that you should include #1 #2 #5


and #3 you said....

"If you could have the marriage you’ve always wanted with someone that was fulfilling all your emotional (and physical) needs and you could picture yourself being happy, would you want that person to be me or someone else?"

i think i've heard Steve Harley word it differently: (something like what i wrote below)


3. Wouldn't it be wonderful If WE could have the marriage you’ve always wanted with ME fulfilling all your emotional (and physical) needs and with BOTH OF US being happy?? I have a plan that would allow this to happen

hang in there for some other replies

Lucy - the problem here is not that your WH doesn't "love" you. It's that he doesn't have one drop of respect for you. Nobody can really love somebody whom they simply do not respect.

I would suggest sending just a very brief note telling him that you still want to be married to him and including the lines that Eav suggested: "Wouldn't it be wonderful If WE could have the marriage you’ve always wanted with ME fulfilling all your emotional (and physical) needs and with BOTH OF US being happy?? I have a plan that would allow this to happen."

My advice is not to send the letter you posted. It makes you sound demanding and clingy, even though I know that's not what you meant. Odds are your husband will never even read it.

I would say to just send the note that Eav and I suggested, then do Plan A the best you can for a short time, and then go to a dark Plan B.

Don't ask yourself, "What can I do to make WH love me?"

Ask yourself, "What can I do to make WH *respect* me?"
Mulan

I agree with Mulan and Eave.

But I don't really see the opportunity for progress if he is living an hour and a half away.

What can you guys do so you are together?

I wouldn't send the letter either. Short and Sweet.

ok, thanks. I'm just feeling agitated now because i've been doing a kind of plan A since June with no response from him at all. I see him once a week to drop our baby off and I'm sweet and kind. I don't say a thing about us or the past. I just make sure that when he sees me I'm happy and upbeat. Gave him a great father's day present (last month), always say yes when he wants to see his daughter etc. I'm starting to feel angry again which I haven't felt in months...maybe it's just part of the rollercoaster...The injustice I feel is just starting to get to me. His girlfriend is on the other side of the world and has been for over 6 months now but he's still not showed any sign of wanting to be in our marriage. I know he has no respect for me...I was a doormat in our marriage because he just had no boundaries at all....trying to get him to listen was impossible. He only cared about being right...not ever hearing what I was trying to say. So in the end I just continually appeased him. I've been so cool, calm and collected for 10 months now and I don't know if I just need to calm down and sit tight, or it it's action time.

If someone so desperately has no desire to be with you, at what point do you give up and move on? I don't know if I have the strength to fight anymore. I want it to all be over, but I'm the type of person that just sweeps things under the carpet. I can't do that here.

Ok, I won't send. Frog he lives in the same city...just on the other side of it!! The thing is, he doesn't want to be with me. The last time we spoke about 'us' was in June when he said 'I want a final answer to reconciliation'. I said 'what are you hoping I'll say?' he said 'I'm not telling you'. I said 'please don't play these games. You're either hoping I'll say yes because in some way you want to save our marriage, or you're hoping I'll say no so you can get on with your life with her and tell everyone you offered me reconciliation, but I wouldn't let you'. He said 'I've told you my heart is not in it and it is purely a head decision...so the answer to that should be fairly obvious'. I said 'ok, I'll think about it and let you know'. That was at least 4 months ago. He's been in this affair for over 18 months now, and he's been living apart from her for 6 months. Hasn't he had enough time to see the reality of life away from me and our baby? Do I let him go?

Ok here is a final answer for reconciliation.

I will consider reconciling with these rules.

#1 we live under the same roof
#2 no contact
#3 you live up to your responsibility as a father.

You can fill in the rest.

I don't know about all FWS but somtimes I think the FWS won't go forward with the D for just that reason. I wanted to try and work it out but she couldn't get over it.

I can tell you where I stand on it. You have a young child that needs two parents that love each other. Why not give it a shot?

You do need rules and boundries though. Do not let him wipe his feet on you when he is moving back in if he choses too.

In all honesty, my concern is that I've been too harsh on my WH. I told him to get out the day I found out. I continued to tell him for months that every bone in my body told me to run...when there 'seemed' to be a part of him that wanted me to tell him to come back. He said things such as 'you don't really love me or you'd accept me as I am' and 'everything I've read says you should be trying to win me back just as much as I should be trying to win you back'. Maybe it was my inaction and my rejection of him that drove him further into her arms and that's why I'm wondering if I take a softer approach such as a letter of some sort telling him i do love him (I've not said this ONCE from the moment I found out....I was just too angry), whether that would change anything with him.

To a fault, I'm a very black and white person. I told him before we married if he ever cheated on me, it would be the end. I said that because I knew I couldn't handle infidelity.

My child is happy and content. I wonder what I'd really be bringing her into by trying to save this marriage.

Just wanted to ask advice and give an update.

Got an email from my WH...it said this:

I guess my question to you is where do you see us going forward? It has been a long time since we spoke about this and i dont believe any resolution as to what next was gained. I think we are at a point now where we should start to look at some firm decisions as to what we need to do, so that we can look at the future with some more certainty. I dont know what you think?

My WH needs me to end the marriage...wants me desperately to say 'it's all over' so he can bring his OW out here and begin life with her and save face in some way with his family and church by telling everyone I ended it.

I told him I would get back to him as soon as I could (it's now been at least a week). I'm thinking of responding by telling him that HE needs to decide. I won't be demanding in ANY way, but was planning to tell him that (in a nicer way) he's in two relationships and needs to end one. If he ends it with her, I'll go to marriage counselling with him. If he ends it with me, I'll find peace with that. But HE needs to decide.

Do you agree? I know my H and I know how manipulative he is. He NEEDS to always be able to say that I ended our marriage...he's not one for responsibility. I don't want to give him that satisfaction. I'd rather be able to tell our daughter one day I did what i could.