Let's start your own thread so that we can focus on helping you.

Where do you want to start?

hey, mimi, thanks.

Uggh, where to start ...

After H's 8 month affair, then three months of living on he own, he has now been home for 6 months. We are trying, but the biggest obstacle I see is his sort of low key persistence in thinking of this OW. He has always had a problem with thinking that the grass is always greener. During one of those awful long talks last weekend, I asked him if he'd every wished things had gone the other way, and he was living with OW now (they had an apartment all ready). His answer was, "sometimes." I asked him, "Did you love her that much, H, that you were willing to throw away your wife and your children? Simple answer, looking me straight in the eye ... "yes." ARGHHH!!! You've GOT to be kidding.

So he's in withdrawal, still, after six months. Yes, we have ALL the books, SAA, HNHN, 5 Love Languages. We're reading them together, a little at a time. I guess the hardest part for me right now is that I have told him my biggest EN right now is affection. At times, I confess, I've nearly begged for it. But he responds very little, only enough to say he did it. It's forced feeling.

Yeah, I do the Plan A and all of that. I try. But I'm growing weary because I feel that he is just never going to let go of this in his heart. He's the type that will carry around a torch his whole life. He'll be a martyer, stay with his family because it's "the right thing to do." Meanwhile, I, like always, will feel second best in his heart. The OW will always be a ghost in the M.

I know I can't live life like that. I'm growing in this, and really realizing that, if he DOES in fact follow the path like I think he will, then I need to force myself out of this, 'cause I don't want to live this way. He is in counseling. And we've been going to a church, something rather new for us. I hanging my hopes on these things. I'm giving him till January to see just a glimpse of improvement. If he's still floaty, sullen, wallowing, and distant, as he is now ... I'm done.

RT,

It wouldn't take me that long to be done.

If this is a personality disorder/issue rather an an abberration of character I wouldn't be willing to make that investment. I don't think the payoff is worth the price.

Your history suggests to me that fantasy is The Norm for him and accepting reality is something he struggles against rather than embracing.

No one and nothing will ever live up to his fantasy ideal...even if he HAD left to be with her he would then fantasize about the life he left behind or another affair entirely.

In a case where the issue is not the marriage, not a temporary case of insanity, but rather that the WS just simply does not function as an adult and never has...well...I think that those issues are beyond the scope of MB.

Noodle, you mean you wouldn't even give him till January?

Yeah, you're right. He does have a history of this. I have tried telling him, over and over, that even if he HAD left for OW, it wouldn't be long and he would be wishing for something else ... me and the kids? Perhaps yet another OW.

Like I said, I'm banking on a really good counselor who understand my H's personality disorder...and God. That's all I can do. I've got nearly 30 years invested in this man, so what's a couple more months, I figure.

Thanks for your input. It's hard to read, all black and white as it is, but you're right.

(((((rl))))

Your experience sounds absolutely NO DIFFERENT than mine and here I am very HAPPILY RECOVERED.



My FWH said EXACTLY the same thing and he was living with the OW. He is being HONEST with you about his feelings and is telling you the TRUTH..one of the BASIC REQUIREMENTS of RECOVERY that he is doing, RL..OPENNESS AND HONESTY.. You don't want him to LIE to you, do you?

We weren't anywhere near NORMALITY after 6 months. It took my H the FULL 6 MONTHS of WITHDRAWAL before THE FOG was LIFTED. I still saw GLIMPSES of the FOG after a YEAR. At 6 months, he was still holding on to SOME GOOD feelings about the OW. Now, he sees her more REALISTICALLY and NEGATIVELY but that was the LAST BIT OF THE FOG to go....

RECOVERY is like HE//..I know...

We were the WALKING WOUNDED....Survivors after a QUAKE...after a DISASTER...



It's about YOU being a BELIEVER in YOURSELF and YOUR MARRIAGE. It's about YOU, RL. You are the SANE one. He is a RECOVERING ADDICT. You, like me, seem to be the one who has to LEAD THE CART.



He is NOT being a MARTYER...staying with his family IS THE RIGHT THING FOR HIM TO DO. He has CHOSEN to do this and he deserves all the CREDOs that can be offered for making this CHOICE. As you have seen here on this forum, he did not HAVE TO MAKE THIS CHOICE and deserves a BIG HUG for this. I would like to give it to him today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



Certainly you feel like this now. I felt like that when I was in your position (I recall PEP AND SUSAN letting me have it here) and sometimes I continue to have those fleeting thoughts about HER..YUCK.

But I wipe thoughts of her out of my mind by DOING something WONDERFUL for my MARRIAGE..to CELEBRATE our MARITAL VICTORY OVER HER and ALL THAT SHE REPRESENTS....

YOUR H HAS DEFINITELY CHOSEN YOU AND YOUR MARRIAGE, RL!!!! SHE IS THE LOSER. SHE WILL FOREVER AND FOREVER BE THE OW..YOU ARE HIS WIFE!!! Saying this helps me to feel good today. I'm saying this for all of us FBWes!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



Have you told him this, RL? How can we help you get out of the NEGATIVE THINKING rut and become a BELIEVER?..more positive..letting him know that YOU BELIEVE that you can do this TOGETHER...

My H said just a few days ago something to the effect of..NO ONE CAN DEFEAT US WHEN WE ARE WORKING AS A TEAM!!!

It's a BATTLE, RL.

JOIN US IN THE FIGHT!!!

Well, you can see that I TOTALLY DISAGREE with Noodle.

What affair isn't FANTASY?

I said that stuff about a PERSONALITY DISORDER in my first session with Steve H and he basically said BULL to me..GARDEN VARIETY affair.

I don't think it's time for someone to DISCOURAGE you.

You need to be UPLIFTED and not DISCOURAGED.

Where is this mentioned in your post? Is this coming from some past history that you did not recount here today?

Here, here mimi! I agree w/every word! This is what I've been trying to tell rlt over in Recovery.

30 years is a long time to live this way.

Can you expand a little bit about your experience with this and how you have coped and WHY you have coped?

If I recall correctly he has pretty much been carrying on a one sided EA for the whole of your marriage and even prior to it for one person or another.

I can understand the years of investment...so many years of your life that you can't have back amd all of the memories and milestones that can't be replaced or re-experienced....and I can definitely see how a real recovery would look more attractive than taking a loss a la controlled burn.

My question would be...what are YOUR standards. What will you enthusiastically accept as the rest of your life unfolds.

The reason that I ask this is..with a real live mental/emotional disorder...it's usually a question of degree rather than a clean bill of health.

Often with treatment these things can be MANAGED but not CURED.

So I'd talk with some medical professionals and ask for their opinion and experience in treating disorders like this one...because 30 years is less than 60 and I wouldn't personally be willing to committ my life to a man who isn't capable or willing to be faithfull both physically and emopionally.

I also wouldn't set a deadline such as January or "a few months from now" if you DO decide to make this investment because as I mentioned before..it's a lifelong issue...not resolveable on your timeframe.

I guess what I am saying is...make sure you don't throw your life away chasing a fantasy of your own.

Have you been trying and hoping to change him or expecting that if you just wait long enough and try hard enough he will honor your efforts and value you more than his fantasy obsessions?

Can you accept who he is, what he is, and the way that he lives if he can not change or will not...and if not...how will you make that judgement?

You have thirty years of CONSISTENT uninvested spouse on a scale with new IC and MC.

How will you measure that improvement you are looking for?

Have you talked with your IC about this?

Yes Mimi..

I'm making reference to past posting history.

I would agree with you that just what was posted right here wouldn't be remotely enough to make an assumption about whether his fog was affair based or dysfunction related.

Thanks, Noodle. It wasn't making sense.

And get this...



THIRTY WHOLE YEARS, RL..and you are having issues with 6 months of this Recovery?

There must have been some good times in there somewhere for you.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

wow, I guess I started something.

Noodle is right ... she has a good memory.

Yes, my H does have a sort of bizarre history of a one-sided EA with a girl he met in college over 25 years ago. Honestly, and I know how stupid this sounds but it's true ... in all the years of our marriage, on and off, he would get gooey and distant, and he would write poetry and songs for this ghost of a girl. He didn't contact her (that was his BIG defense), but he just held on to these sort of self-indulgent fantasies of her. He would do this more when life got stressful ... new house, new baby. Whatever. Did I have boundaries then? Probably not. I really didn't even know what they were, and I'm still trying to figure that out. But in my defense, I did stomp up and down, carry on, tell him it WASN'T right. Somehow, though, he always got the best of me, told me it was JUST poetry, JUST songs, that he was trying to create art, and if he had to go there to create good art, than so be it. Ugghh ... I thought all of that was over, until whammy, a fully blown affair. 20/20 hindsight. I should have seen it coming. It was the natural progression, the next step. Fullfilling the fantasy. And here I am, second fiddle. Here I am, wiping kids' butts, putting away mountains of laundry, running to baseball fields and gymnastics meets.

So, there you have it, the other side of the coin. I've been trying like h*** to determine if this is just a "run of the mill" affair, or if this is something beyond that. And how to deal with it ...

Thanks for listening.

The difference between now and then? He is in with an excellent counselor who is really trying to help H sort all of this stuff out. That, and church, which is new for him.

RLT:

You got me here today, with this post.

Earlier in the thread, your WH was being honest with you and its "YADDA YADDA YADDA."

And in this post he is writing poetry and love letters to someone else. HE was trying to express himself to someone who he claims wasn't going to be able to listen. (I do not know if this is the same person he had an A with, so stay with me here) When RLT discovers them, she presumes that he is cracked. He was trying to express himself and he does not have an outlet for that. For 30 years.

Now, I could just be a FOGGED out FWH here, but I think in just reading those two posts that we can get alot closer to what EN he might be missing from you. I can acknowledge that he was writing to someone else, and not you, that is hurtful.

From my own experience, BS and I drifted apart. It is normal to think "what if" when you drift away. It is also difficult to understand what it takes to "drift" closer. MB can help with that.

Your WH did the poetry thing when the stress got high. I did the golf thing. Should we have spoken to the W more? Yes, but that wasn't working, so we found other avenues. Doesn't make the A right, so lets not go off on the tangent here, about us selecting A's and not our spouse. I own my choices.

Every BS wants to know that they are truly "THE ONE" Any lingering thoughts for OP are to be beaten away and suppressed. This is true, for the BS. But the WS has got to process this loss in some sort of way to aviod the "what if" scenario running thru thier head. And when your H speaks of it, you need to allow him to explore what it was about OW (and even the poetry EA OW) that attracted him to her. Then use those things to build a stronger M with your H.

Because, if you don't, the merry-go-around doesn't stop.

mimi even said on another thread (NC007's) that I sound like her FWS. Do not know if that is still true or not.

Do I still think about OW? Yes. But not in the same way I did before. Do I do "what if" thinking? Not a lot anymore. And not just about OW. We all do it. "What if I stayed in the Air Force?", etc. Sometimes it helps us find out where we would like to go. We are not trapped by our prior choices. Only what we do in the future.

Do I have a M with BS? Yes. But not the same way I did before. Even before the A. Why not? because we both changed. If we had stayed the same, the "what if" scenarios would have played out. Do I have "what if" scenarios with BS now? Yes, "What if I hadn't gotten involved? or "What if I had found MB before becoming involved?" But best of all, we discovered "What-can" statements. What can I do to make this M better. What can I do today that shows BS I love her?

RLT, remember, this is JMVHO.

PS, I can duck noodles 2x4's she's got some good'uns. I even deserve them sometimes too...

LG,
To clarify, poetry writing was to a girl in college from a hundred years ago ... not the affair partner. Affair partner he met on the internet...premeditated...going on romance/sex websites to meet people. Yuck.

I like hearing from FWS's. I know he has to process the loss, but isn't six months long enough? Seeing his past is why I think he will NEVER get over it. It will just play out and play out. What do I have to give him to get him out of it, that I haven't already given him? Really, LG, I've been a good wife. Geez, I do everything for the guy. Family members just look at me, sometimes, the way I wait on him. It's ridiculous. What more does he want?

I did ask H the other night if he thought that OW would "always hold a special place in his heart." He said no. I don't know if I believe him or not, but it was a good answer, nonetheless.

Still AMAZINGLY true!!!

I was basically a GOOD WIFE, too...did A LOT for my H..BUT I didn't meet HIS PRIMARY ENs...

Not saying this is necessarily true for you, RL.

But I was SOOO CLUELESS and so RIGHTEOUS...until after the A....

rlt,

My two cents. Recently gave FWW the talk about a D. I was done. Had it, finished blah blah blah,

I went to see the MC.

He asked me this. If she can change would you be willing to stay? I said well it depends. He said on what. I said are you talking about changing for the better or for the worse. If for the better yes. LOL. He thought that was funny.

He said so you have been together 12 years. You are 3 years past d day. You have tried for this long and now you are saying you are done. She is in AA, she has agreed to IC and these changes will take time.

He said why not give it 3 months, six months, a year. What is the rush.

I said dang now that you put it that way it makes sense.

He said regardless of what happened in the past you guys can have a future.

I said but my past with her has sucked now for 6 years. He said not her fault. You enabled her and lived with it. I said no I wanted it to change. How did you make it change. Well I didn't do much. So you lived with it. Damn him. He said she chose to act that way and that is her fault, you chose to accept it.

So going back 30 years will do you no good. Can he change today in a way that would make you happy to have him for an H?

If he can will you be willing to move forward with that new H. If no then you should leave.

I am on the fence myself. I don't know at this point that no matter what my FWW does if I want her as a W. I really am torn up that if she becomes the perfect W because of this, was my pain worth it? Maybe it would be a good idea to just let her go. But then on the other side shouldn't I be the one that receives the pay off for the pain. A great W?

Wish my mind could figure this one out.

Frog's post made me remember how about 6 months to a year into Recovery I was convinced that I had to ACCEPT my H the way he WAS..that he would NEVER CHANGE.

Ark..where is that woman?..convinced me otherwise..that CHANGE can happen....

I am so very THANKFUL that I am a WITNESS to the tremendous changes in my H...

How this HORRIBLE TRAGEDY has helped to CHANGE him into the WONDERFUL PERSON that he is now....or maybe he's the same and I HAVE CHANGED..or we both have CHANGED...

BECOME A BELIEVER, RL...

It's beautiful out here in the SUNSHINE....