Tell her that you know you can't stop her from doing whatever she wants to do. Tell her that you love her and want to be married to her. Tell her that if she CHOOSES to not even try to recover your marriage and to proceed with her desire for a divorce, you will contest it simply because there IS cause....adultery.

Contact an attorney and have a counter suit ready for CAUSE. Since she is employed, pull out the last couple of years of tax returns and take them to the attorney to see about support from her if she does go forward.

Forget about recovery right now. She is not even considering it yet, so "pick your wars" right now with a large dose of "legal realities."

Check with the attorney also about filing an "Alienation of Affection" suit against the OM. Do it. Whether or not his wife is supported, you need to keep the pressure on.

Remember, you are taking these steps BECAUSE you love her and want her for your wife DESPITE her hurtful actions.

Later on you can deal with events that may present themselves at that time, but now is not the time to worry about things not in your control.

God bless.

Agree Scotty. It's time for the ole "Hello Wayward Wife, I've been thinking and you know its about time you understand the world doesn't revolve around you, people don't exist so that you can be happy, and courts certainly don't rule the way you want because you will it" speech!! In other words its time to man up and fight back. You can still express you desire to save your M by actions and words BUT in the event "she doesn't get it" you need to give her a preview of things to come......1. full custody 2. if she makes more money than you, alimony 3. child support 4. equitable split of assets, w you retaining the family home if possible (add in child support) 5. no contact between children and OM (or any unrelated male) during separation or divorce proceedings 6.divorce will be filed under grounds of ADULTERY and THE OM WILL BE NAMED 7. does your state have alienation of affection laws still on the books? If so, you may pursue action against OM

In other words she wants you two to just get along and make this a walk in the park divorce so that she can move on with OM or some other OM, take your children, let you pay child support, and see them every other weekend. This is not what's best for the children and its your responsibility as the only currently sane parent to protect them

Well, I ended up calling OMW again yesterday afternoon. She answered and we spoke for about an hour. She stated that OM will not leave his job and she feels that WW should be the one to leave. I don't disagree with her, but WW will not agree to do so and I have zero influence over her.

I know that exposing to work is what I should do. That said, there could be consequences for both WW and OM. My concern is not for either of them individually, but for the newborn and the 2 1/2 year old that could suddenly be without their primary source of income and health insurance (especially the newborn). Doesn't mean that there are other options, but there are two kids involved there. I know that OM was equally responsible for this affair and that he should have to face the consequences of doing so, but I'm just really torn as to what to do.

OMW says that OM has committed to rebuilding their marriage. They have already started counseling. OM plans on trying to get WW to go to a counseling session where he will formally tell WW that it is over between them with the counselor there to facilitate. I doubt that WW would agree to go to any such counsleing session, but I don't know.

That said, the problem still remains that they will have to have at least business contact so long as they work together. WW said that she is considering moving out of state, but I don't think that would be until after we get our house sold and after a divorce is final. So, that is going to be a least several months. In the interim, she will not leave her job voluntarily at this point. It doesn't appear that OM will agree to leave his job either (he has senority and has two kids to provide for).

So I am in a conundrum. I know that all here advice to expose, and do it immediately. I just need to think about the possible ramifications of doing so. I have a feeling that her bosses suspect anyway as WW called in sick for the days early this week that they were scheduled together and OM has swapped out of the weekend that they were to work together. It sounds like they work together Friday, and according to OMW, OM is going to confront WW and tell her that it is over and ask her to go to the counseling session. I also know that many of the coworkers (but not near all) know about the affair between the two of them. OM does the scheduling and can do his best to schedule them on opposite days. However, some contact is inevitable. I know that absoultely no contact would give our marriage the best chance, but short of her (or both) getting fired, it doesn't look like that is going to happen.

I don't think that OM shared the same feelings for WW as WW had for him. Not that he didn't have strong feelings for WW, but I don't think he was in love with WW and WW is with him. He also has a lot to lose should he continue the A. When WW is slapped in the face with that reality, it may die on its own. I know that it is much less likely for her to start coming out of the fog if she continues to even have minimal business contact with him, but is it possible? I know that the advice here is to expose. I just am concerned with the potential ramifications.

I need to think through this a bit more. I thank you all for your adivce and I am truly taking it to heart and trying to decide what to do here.

Scotty

hopeandpray,

WW and I don't have children. We were in the process of trying but thank God it didn't happen yet.

As for the divorce, my state is a no fault state. There are possible actions that I could bring against OM separate from the divorce but there are ramifications for ME doing so. Filing that kind of lawsuit would reflect negatively on my professional reputation and the reputation of my firm (thus affecting my partner). Our legal community is small enough that everybody gets to know everybody. I could also go after WW for temporary alimony but it is not likely that I would get any (if she files for D in the near future I will contest it and I will likely ask for some of these things though)

Anyway, I would have to think long and hard about doing something that could hamper my livlihood chasing what well might be a pipe dream that our marriage can be saved. I certainly don't plan on being her doormat and just giving in should she decide to proceed. I want to save my marriage, but I also have to work on making myself a better person and don't want to hurt my professional reputation in the process.

Scotty

Sorry ScottyI thought you had mentioned having children in your thread, my bad. That was my main concern in what I wrote (the children). Had I not had children with my EX WW I would have not been nearly as motivated to keep things together (although I did love her and offered path after path home), so I commend you on this. I fully understand about your profession and fallout from legal matters and agree the short term potential of going after the OM is far outweighed by the long term potential for your practice. Good thinking there. I almost think in cases where there are no children that a modified plan A/180 is in order followed shortly after by a plan B if possible.

It sounds as if the OM may (I say may because the attraction of an affair is strong and waywards are liars) be trying to salvage his relationship and family. If so this is you best bet at recovery. Hopefully she will see that she is not his soulmate and love but instead a woman that was used for his pleasure until it became to much trouble. This should help with some of the fog.

Hang in there and God bless.

I agree that putting my hope on OM (who lied, cheated, and hid the A from his W for 2 years as well) to completely end the A may be wishful thinking. That said, he does have two kids and a lot more incentive to end the A. If he does try to secretly continue the A, the risk of being caught is very high now that many coworkers, myself, and OMW are in the know.

Hmmmmmm......

Interesting.......

So the OM is in an authoratarian position over WW? And he may be / has been using that to enable / coerse a relationship with WW?

I think that the HR department @ their mutual workplace would want to put an end to that IMMEDIATELY!

Being a lawyer, I am sure that you would understand what a conflict of interest this is and potential liability this could be to their workplace.

Expose them at their workplace to HR and ask HR WHAT they are going to do about this?

One or both may be transferred / terminated. Remember that this is a CONSEQUENCE OF THEIR ACTIONS. You are NOT doing "this" to them. Don't shield either of them from this reality.

If either of them are transferred / terminated if WILL stop the workplace contact between them. You want this to happen. No Contact is imperiative to have any hope of reconsilliation. Do not doubt this.

As for yours / your partners reputatation: In what way will it harm your reputation to be known as an honest man who is not afraid of speaking the truth?

Please do give serious consideration to exposing at their workplace. It WILL be another blow against the affair.

Even if there affair is "done" now. With continous contact at the workplace there will be an ever increasing chance of it restating. I have seen that time and time again. One and usually both wind up finding employment elsewhere.

Stay Strong!

Scotty...

You must not shield OM (or his children) from the consequences of HIS actions...His financial situation is not of your concern...He's a big boy who played with fire and will have to deal with the burn all by himself...It was HIS responsiblity to worry about the livelihood and health insurance of his children...Their welfare should NOT be of your concern regarding workplace exposure...You have this affair on the ropes...Lose the liberal law school attitude and GO IN FOR THE KILL on this AFFAIR...

NO, it is NOT possible for your wife to withdraw from OM while having "business contact" with him-CONTACT is CONTACT...It is NOT possible that your marriage will recover this way...You may as well go ahead with the divorce if that is what you are counting on...Staying in a marriage where there is continued contact with OM that you know about will make you a VOLUNTEER, not a VICTIM as you are now...Dr. Harley advises NO CONTACT FOR LIFE between the infidels...Why do you think the PROFESSIONAL advises this Scotty?

Please stop overthinking this, MAN UP and do the right thing for your marriage...

Mrs. W

Scotty...there was a post on hear a while back that talked about how a man can manipulate a women into an affair.
I think it was on heartsores thread.

If this other man wants your ww out of his life. Maybe (and this may sound stupid) but just maybe you could print that post off and have him (om) send it to your ww.

His bw wouldn't mind I'm sure, and it would show how much he wants his marriage to work.
Your ww would be pi55ed for being used.
Is that dumb? or a win win situation?

Sorry if this sounds far fetched but I'm just brainstorming here.
Would that help her to see through some fog?

Anybody?

JS

Listen to Mrs, W., Scotty.

NC is a MUST!!! The feelings from the A are just TOO strong to ignore while having contact.

The feelings are TOO strong.

Honest.

They won't be able to ignore them.

I know you are a nice guy who doesn't want to take health care away from anyone's children. But, if he loses his job, it will be HIS fault NOT yours. Besides, kids are the healthiest people around. They don't need much health care...OLD people do. Trust me, I've got a bunch of kids, an aging parent, and aging in-laws. I know which ones need doctor's care more.

You must KILL the A.

~ Marsh

Here's the article JSlost was talking about...

This is a synopsis of personal experience and of articles on the web.

First, researchers did a study. They paired students and gave them the task of talking for 30 minutes or so about their past and hopes and futures. Each took their turn. At the end of that, they were asked a series of questions that boiled down to "How do you feel about the person you were talking with?" As it turns out, something like 50% of those participating had somewhat or strong positive feelings about the other person. The exchange of confidences created intimacy. And from intimacy, feelings flow.
________

As humans, we have two ways of thinking. The first is logic or our conscious minds and secondly is emotion or our subconscious minds.

Women are HARD WIRED to follow their emotional thoughts and feelings that are the same across most, if not all, women. They cannot help it except as the lessons of experience teach them consequences.

That’s why so many women fall for the same “jerk” guys. Their logical brains are telling them that they’ll be messed around, that they’d be better off with the nice guy. And they are usually right, but women are CONTROLLED by the emotional side of the brain. They can’t help but seek out the excitement and the alpha male, the bad boy.

The way you approach an attached woman will either make or break your whole strategy. She has to perceive your intentions as being strictly innocent and friendly. Getting her to accept you as a friend is very important because later in the strategy, she will have to trust your opinion about her relationship. If she views your intentions as wanting to seduce her, she will not value your opinion.

On the other hand, if you can pull it off, just approach her with overwhelming testosterone overload; excitement, passion, what is missing in her life. And the key here as in all things women, is that she IS missing something in her life. Women focus on what they don't have, instead of what they do have.

Most married lives settle down to joint responsibilities sooner or later and the passion is missing. This means that women (and men) are vulnerable to seduction. If you can find one who is not protecting their weaknesses - and most aren't, there you go.

Once you establish a friendship, you must let it develop into a "one-of-the-girls" bond where she can trust you enough to tell you about her relationship problems.

The secret to seducing a woman away from her man is to make her think. That's right, you heard me. Make her think about why she's still with him. Why he treats her with disrespect? Why does he take her for granted? Why is he not with her at this very moment? Why is he out with the boys, or at work, or whatever?

We all know that not one person in this world is perfect, this includes her husband. So why not bring his negative characteristics into the light? Bring up the topic of relationships; discuss the little things that bother people in general about dating or the married life. Then invite her to talk about some of the things that aggravate her about her husband or boyfriend.

By letting her voice her lover's flaws, you kill three birds with one stone. First, she gets the impression that you are a good listener; like a good friend or psychologist. Second, because you're not doing the criticism, you do not come across as the "snake" that tries to impress people by knocking others down. Finally, you discover the lover's negative qualities to amplify them within the conversation.

The next step is to confess attraction for her. Get a bit passionate. Most likely, this is the big hole in her current relationship; most women crave excitement, passion, that testosterone drive to bed her. She likely fantasizes about it during masturbation or while having sex with her husband.

Other than the overwhelming bad boy thing, here are the steps:

Step one; Let's be friends, talk to her.
Step two; Touch her - hold hands, friends only. tell her she is beautiful.
Step three; (guy) I am attracted to you, I am passionate about you. I can't help it. But don't bed her yet - be strong !!
Step four; let her tell you how screwed up her current relationship is.
Step five; read the signs - push her buttons.
Step six; right place, right time, do the deed.
Step seven; enjoy the passion she has for you, likely she will do things with you she wouldn't dream of doing with her husband.
Step eight; it gets boring, so start making life uncomfortable for her.
Step nine; she will move on back to her husband. Women also like safety.
Step ten; go for another one.

The most important thing to remember is that women are hard wired for passion; they like to be pursued and they tell themselves it won't go anywhere so they enjoy the games.

The bad boy seduction results in a couple of encounters, then they go away hating themselves. The more conventional method results in a longer term sex partner. Keep your eyes open, married women who can be seduced are everywhere.
________

Larry

Scotty,

If you do not expose OM at work he gets away with it. Is that what you want?

Listen, I wish (and I still would have preferred) you talked to the Harleys before taking this action. But now that you have started exposure you need to complete it thoroughly.

Your WW suffers from ED. This makes a difference. Her adultery needs to be exposed to the world if she is to be helped with her core problems in the long run.

And OM needs total exposure so he maybe learns not to do this again. In the long run, his family will appreciate it, I believe.

You wrote:

“If he does try to secretly continue the A, the risk of being caught is very high now that many coworkers, myself, and OMW are in the know.”

IMO, you should make this risk a certainty. Expose at work so he cannot continue the adultery no matter what he wants.

You are not supposed to shield him from the consequences of his actions. OM is not your child.


BTW, you show great promise as an individual. Here is the third best thing you have written in this entire thread:

“Anyway, I would have to think long and hard about doing something that could hamper my livelihood chasing what well might be a pipe dream that our marriage can be saved.

This is the second best thing you have written:

“I certainly don't plan on being her doormat and just giving in should she decide to proceed.”

And this is the best thing you have written:

“I want to save my marriage, but I also have to work on making myself a better person and don't want to hurt my professional reputation in the process.”

With the above attitude you cannot fail to get past this no matter what becomes of your M.

With prayers,

Scotty, I am very pro-marriage, but I would suggest getting a divorce and moving on before you ever settle for this continued contact. That is like giving a "recovering" alcholic drinks but calling them "professional drinks" and then wondering why he can't ever sober up.

A drink is a drink, just like an affair is an affair. You can call an affair "professional" contact or you can call it a baloney sandwich, it won't change reality. They cannot undo the romantic feelings they have for one another and turn back time.

Work contact will never work. You will facing YEARS of on-again, off again affair and will die a death of a thousand cuts. Your w will be in perpetual withdrawal and you will wonder EVERY DAY if this is the day the affair resumes at work. So, rest assured there will no recovery this way.

Someone has to leave. And I think it should be up to their employer to make that decision. They have a right to can anyone they cboose and protecting them from the consequences of their actions helps NO ONE. It surely doesn't help OM's children and it doesn't help your marriage.

Scotty, you need to expose this affair now. It needs to be done before they have a chance to regroup. You have the affair on the ropes and if you stop before it is killed, you just give them a chance to get back and fight some more. That is not in the best interest of the OM's children, his wife or you. By not exposing there, you only greatly increase the chances that it will RESUME. So rest assured that you are doing no one any favors. You endanger your marriage and the OMWs.

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html


Mimi wrote: Check this out from the How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS..one of my favorite pieces of reading material...

p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

Sorry Scotty if I'm repeating something someone else said.

THE OM DIDN'T CARE TOO MUCH ABOUT HIS OWN KIDS - HE HAD AN A ON THEIR MOTHER!!!!. If he cared he would have D her and then moved on to any women that was not M. Go after him at work using HR as your weapon.

I see new pharmacies opening all the time - he can get a new job.

MOVE IT NOW MAN
M2L

Scotty,

I think you can tell we have a pretty good concensus here.

Work exposure being better sooner than later in this case.

We're all pulling for you here, Scotty!

Good luck and God Bless!

And every day lost makes the exposure...

Harder to do...

more likely to be compromised by the infamous "jealous husband" story...

more likely to be a separate "anger incident" with your WW, than a continuation of the one she's currently in...

less of a weapon in getting the affair to end...

ineffective at your efforts to get your WW to poke her head out of the fog...

something we will continue to hammer you about until the exposure takes place!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Best wishes,
SD

Scotty - how ya doing????

Hanging in there. Trying to take it day by day. Still struggling with the decision to write the letter to work but really leaning towards doing so. I have on more than one occassion convinced myself to do it only to turn around and convince myself not to.

I know that the information and adivce that I have got here is sound, and I feel weak for having not making the decision yet. I understand that everyday that I wait will be to the detriment of the chance at saving my marriage, but there are some other factors that I am taking into consideration such as my financial security and relationships that I have with her family that I want to think through before doing so.

Thanks for all of your support.

Scotty

You can think a problem through until the decision becomes irrelevent.

What does you gut tell you to do?