Sorry for the multiple posts, but I just had another thought. One of my concerns is that WW will be so blinded by the rage that she calls the lawyer and decides to proceed with the Divorce based only on her anger. If I were to tell her tomorow night, she has to work on Friday and wouldn't likely have the opportunity to sign it and take it to the lawyer. Or maybe I wait to shed it until Friday night when she calls me to talk about when she is coming over to work on the house. Then at least she would have the weekend to let the anger subside and talk to some people. Again, just thinking out loud.

I still hate this, but this is reality.

Not at all! You are under no obligation to tell her anything. Why do you want to tell her before the weekend? I would much prefer she hear it second hand from the OM so it can catch her off guard and put her on the defense. Versus, if you "confess" it might look like you believe you have done something WRONG. If she sniffs any guilt on your part, she will use it as ammunition against you.

On the other hand, if she finds out second hand, she will get defensive and angry and call you up out of control. You, having expected this, will be IN CONTROL of the situation and will simply tell her "why, yes I did tell them." without giving any justifications [because there is NOTHING to justify]

I see what you are getting at. I still don't think you should tell HER. I think you should call the OMW on Friday LATE AFTERNOON and inform ONLY HER. When this gets to WW, probably Friday night, the attorneys office will be closed.

Another thing you might want to do is avoid taking her call on Friday night if she calls. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Make her wait a day to get back to her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> She will have cooled her jets a bit by then.

Alright, I will wait and let her find out from OM. Looking at it the light all of you have put it in, I can see that I don't need to be the one that tells her. I'm in my own fog and it is maddening.

I assume that the advice will be to proceed with a normal plan A this weekend if she comes over to work on the house. Small talk, no LB's, no relationship talk. Have the rest of the house uber clean, etc. etc.

Who knows, maybe the hospital will take the swift action Mel and Hope talked about. Talking with the HR director, I don't think that is the case, but it's a possibility.

Scotty

Scotty, there may be no action at all. Ya just never know. But you do know that they are TERRIFIED about it and likely because they don't want their reputations tarnished. That will be result enough.

And please keep this in mind, Scotty, by telling HR, YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG! The affairees have done something wrong here. You are not obliged to help them hide their dirty secrets and HAVE NOTHING TO APOLOGIZE FOR. Understand?

The reason I want to make sure you understand and accept this is because the typical fogged out WS will try and turn the tables and make the EXPOSER feel guilty. If she is successful, she will use your inappropriate guilt against you as a WEAPON. So, show no guilt and FEEL no guilt, ok?

You did nothing wrong.

Scotty,

I think some of the confusion here was from my post. So, let me clear this up...as Longhorn made a good point.

You are to send that letter ASAP, without telling ANYONE beforehand. Once you know they have received it (that's why it was a good idea above to send it registered), then you let OMW know of what you did.

As ML said, OMW WILL go directly to OM. She has to, because she will be worried about a loss of income. And of course, OM will contact your WW about her "crazy husband." So, no matter what HR does, it will get back to her.

I believe you dont tell WW anything. You just do it, tell OMW and she find out later. Here's why I say this...

Let's say you tell her right after you send in the letter. "WW, I have talked with HR about your affair." Now, Scotty...how will she take that? She will take it as you are doing all of this to try to control her.

But if you say nothing to her, she will come back to you. She will be mad, and ask why you did it, why you didnt tell her. Now, you are telling her "I am trying to save our marriage." What is she gonna take from this scenario? She is gonna, deep down, see a man on a mission who is not trying to control her...but instead trying to do what is right. She will see that...albeit slowly!

So, send the letter. Let the OMW know. An then move onto the rest of your Plan A. exposure will have been accomplished and it is time to move onto the other things you need to do.

You are right on not threatening the hospital. Again, they understand the sitch. And while they tell you what they did to CYA...they also know what you could do. So, they will tell the pharmacy chief. And the pharmacy chief WILL call them in for a private meeting. I'll bet on it!! He will call them in to tell them that they want this situation to go away.

But whether or not they do anything...WW and OM wont know for sure what they will do. But they will know that the workplace is no longer safe for their affair. You now have eyes on them, even there.

So, relax. Send the letter. Call OMW a few days later.

And then let's move onto stage two!

p.s. you are doing a great job, Scotty! I like that you are not afraid to take action and you are still clear headed enough to overcome your emotions and think this through.[no easy feat!] Sometimes, you might overthink things, but I can see that once you have thought it all through, you set your strategy and take action. It is the strategic ones who have a much better chance, IMO. Our emotions can be our worst enemy in these situations. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Scotty:

Good job.

As you will learn in court, "If the gloves don't fit, you cannot convict!"

Your job is to disrupt the A. Using whatever means work.

Mort, thanks for your thoughts. I agree with your analysis that by telling WW right now would have the appearance taht I am trying to control her, or pressure her as she likes to say. She will think it anyway, but less so if I let her find out from other sources and do like Mel says and show no remorse or guilt for doing so. Telling her right now makes me look desperate..."I told your work, now please leave your job and come back to me...)

I am working on myself with the understanding that there is a strong chance that my marriage is over. I not only want to avoid appearing desperate, I don't want to be desperate.

Mel, my emotions have overcome me already on a coulple of key occasions. Although I'm working on not being desperate, my emotions often tell me that is exactly what I am.

Scotty

The plan is to call OMW later this afternoon and let her know that I talked to the HR department. Won't go into all the details, just let her know that I did talk to HR and HR said that the Pharmacy Director will be notified. The HR director then said that she can't really tell me anything else.

The letter will have been received by the time that I call OMW. Additionally, I told the HR director everything that is contained in the letter yesterday anyway. This should prevent OM and WW to try to go in and pre-empt my exposure as it is already done.

I want to tell OMW sooner then later for a couple of reasons. 1) I told her that I would tell her before I did so. I know that I owe her nothing, but I would feel better holding on to my word by telling her sooner then later. 2) WW and OM work together today, but not tomorrow. So if I were to wait until tomorrow, OM would know but less likely WW would be told.

The goal would be for WW to find out late enough this afternoon that she can't out of pure anger get into the lawyer and get the petition finalized before the weekend. She does work tomorrow from 9am to 8pm, so her schedule is not very condusive to getting to the lawyer. It's possible, but she is going to find out sooner or later.

So that is the plan. I honestly look forward to completing it so that I can try to move on with my life. Work has certainly suffered the last few weeks becuase this whole ordeal just consumes me. After this exposure, I have completed (at least I think) the stick part of Plan A. With WW living on her own and not communicating with me anyway, the carrot part of Plan A is going to be difficult. But at least I shouldn't be stressing myself out asking if I am doing everything that I can to save my marriage. It will be on her.

Any thoughts, questions, concerns?

Scotty

One more thing,

Before I head to lunch I wanted to post what I plan on telling to OMW and see if there were any suggestions.

I am going to tell her that I spoke with the director of HR. I informed HR director of WW and OM's affair. I told HR that I felt the hospital should knows as that is wheree the A started and where the both continue to work together. I told HR that I wasn't doing it with the purpose of getting either of the fired, or out of revenge, but becuase I believed that light should be shed on the A and that the hospital deserved to know.

When she asks what the HR person said, I plan on telling her that I was informed that the pharmacy director would be notified but that the HR director couldn't tell me anythig else. (That is not necessarily true. I don't want to lie to her, so I'm trying to think of what to say that isn't a lie but not the whole truth either. The whole truth being that the HR department said that nothing would be done unless the contact affects their job performance)

Any suggestions?

Scotty

Scotty, well done! Keep in mind that EVEN if your WW does find out and intends to file, and does so, she'll have a long time to cool off and emerge from the fog before any divorce proceedings would be final. All that works in your favor. She may be completely berserk with anger on Friday, and a wholly different person on Monday.

The longer no contact is in place, the more likely she'll be to get a glimpse of her life, and yours, through clearer eyes. Some women (and men) can be so totally consumed with pride that it takes longer for them to come to terms with what they've done and begin to make amends.

In this day and age, once a HR department head is advised of something substantial going on in their department, it is incumbent on them to take some action, even if it's so light as to tell the affair partners to cool their jets. More likely, though, they will take some substantial action, as the threat of a sexual harassment lawsuit would be totally undesirable for them. Their financial liability is significant!

Keep the faith, think positive and believe you will succeed...that's half the battle!


Best wishes,
SD

I called OMW. Went well. She understood why I did what I did and wished me luck.

I also just got a call from WW (this is about an hour after calling OMW). I was expecting her to unleash ****** on me. But she hasn't found out yet as she was calling me to ask if I would put her mail in the mailbox so that she could swing by and get it. I asked her why she couldn't come in to get the mail and she said becasue she is going to be with some a bunch of friends and just wanted to grab it and run so she wasn't making them wait.

I asked who the friends were, and she wouldn't tell me. I asked again and she id'd the two leach friends and then some others that I don't know about. She spitted out a couple of names that I don't even recall right now, someting like Chaz and ??.

I get the feeling that WW may have already went out and found herself another boy toy. Might be wrong, but why wouldn't she tell me if it was something innocent?

Sick. Just makes me sick.

Scotty

You could always follow her to see if she's got another boy toy. If she does (and since you don't have any kids) I would strongly suggest tossing her back in and trying to find another fish in the sea. You are a lawyer and I'm sure you could do quite well for yourself. I was ready to divorce my WW. I told her I was never talking to her again (she could talk to my lawyer), and she immediately cut it off with the OM. She still hasn't committed to the marriage, but I'm going to give her some withdrawal time to see if we can make it work. If she calls him up again, it's over. She isn't worth the all the pain I've endured the last few months.

- Jim

My law partner thinks taht she is just trying to get a rise out of me. Makes sense. I mean she was supposed to come out on Saturday to work on the house. Why couldn't she wait until then to get her stinking mail.

And as I was writing this, WW calls again and tells me not to worry about it unless she thinks that there is something that she needs right away. I said there wasn't, so she said she "might" stop by on Saturday and pick up her mail and see the dog since she is getting her nails done and will be out near there anyway. I ask her, "just stop by to get the mail," and she says yea, depends on what you are doing and if you want to work on the house. I said that can wait (longer the better for me). She then says that she doesn't want to wait too long as the mortgage + her apartment are making her go broke. Ahhhhh....i feel so sorry for her. (insert pouty lip emoticon)

Is she doing this just to get a rise out of me? I don't understand. Seems so trivial. Doesn't want to miss a bill? What, it can't wait two days? I can't imagine that she has found out about the exposure to the workplace yet, considering. She sure is still giving me the attitude that she could care less about our marriage and that she is happy go lucky.

I'm stupified.

Scotty

Jim, if I find out that she is already out messing around with other guys, I think I would have a hard time not taking your advice. She could just be trying to mess with my head though too. WW FOG. Can't try to rationalize it I guess.

Scotty

Since you don't have any kids, I would just ignore her. She is being one heck of a b!tch. I say f*** her. Just go out and live your life. You don't LB her or anything, but just ignore her. I think you are a prime candidate for doing a 180. Go hang out with some friends (even female ones). Make her think you are ready to move on with your life. If she doesn't feel in control any longer, she might just come crawling back. She's already lost her OM, you are her fall back. She takes you for granted thinking you'll always be there. What if she starts thinking, "hey, I might not have anyone?" That might finally wake her up. And you won't have to go through the torture of having to put up with her crap. My WW would not stop talking to the OM until I let her know that I was filing for divorce, I wanted her out of the house, and I was never speaking to her again. Boom, just like there was NC with the OM. Sometimes you need to stand up for yourself. She'll walk all over you as long as you are a doormat. Be a man that she could respect, even if its not what she wants.

- Jim

Scotty, one of the biggest mistakes a BS makes is to try to evaluate what the WS is thinking, and what might be read into any interaction. Fact is, they are completely "whacked out", and make no sense, so trying to get a "read" on their feelings is futile.

Assume a position of emotional detachment for the time being. Set your feelings on a shelf, and don't let ANYTHING she says or does influence your thinking. Stay with your plan to remain above reacting to her erratic and unpredictable behavior. It will save you from some self-inflicted discomfort.

She's an alien, all her thoughts and actions are "out of this world", and trying to find anything credible there will prove to be a wasted effort. The fog must clear.

Steady as she goes, mate!

SD

edited to add: Mess with her mind a bit. Buy a dozen red roses, put them in a vase and set them on your kitchen table so she can see them when she stops by on Saturday. When she asks about them, tell her they are hers. Don't elaborate, just let her know they are for her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I posted this in another thread. I wasn't sure that I wanted to post it here, but have decided to do so. I have done some more thinking since I posted this, and I do want to get more information. I did drive by WW's apartment again, and truck was still there so it could be just a friend in the building, but they would still likely be sleeping so I don't know. Additionally, the truck that was at the bar and followed WW home may not be the same truck that is parked next to her car. I didn't know that the truck parked next to her car at the bar was of any significance until it followed her home, and I didn't actually see them pull in. Anyway, here is the post. Please advise.

Scotty


{This is long, I apologize. Breaking news in my story that I don't want to put in my thread right now. But it does tie into this thread}

I'm really wondering about my WS. I have strong indications that my WW, who was in an affair for two years and which I am (was) in the process of exposing and breaking up, is already having SF with another (possibly multiple others?)

I do not post this in my thread right now because there are people that may be reading it that I don't what to know about this yet. I will tie into the relevance to this thread below.

Here is what has me reeling. I went to my parents for dinner tonight. On the way home, I took the long way and drove by a bar that WW frequents and saw her car there. I thought she might be from a phone call she made earlier today. The phone call was suspicious as she mentioned going out with friends who she said I didn't know, etc. etc. D-Day was less than 3 weeks ago. Anyway, I went home, went to bed, and ended up waking up at about 1:00 a.m. in a cold sweat. I layed there for 15 mins and decided that I was going to get up and see if WW was still at the bar and do a little recon. Anyway, I see the leach friends car leave as I was pulling into a parking lot next to the bar. WW's car was still there. I found a spot in a parking lot across the street where I hoped she would not see my car and waited. Sure enough, 15-20 mins later WW comes out of the bar with a guy. His truck was parked right next to WW's car. The parking lot was pretty dark, and I was't close, so I couldn't see much. Anyway, WW gets in her car and heads back towards her apartment (which I didn't even know where exactly it was). Guy in the truck is right on her heels. I pull in behind them at a reasonable distance and follow. I ended up losing their trail towards the end, but I knew that the apt building had to be close to where I had last seen them turn. So I drove around for 10-15 mins looking for WW's car and sure enough I found it. The guys truck was there too. I took down his license plate number and am going to have a PI that does a lot of work for the firm see if he can run the plate for me.

I so wanted to go in and unleash he11 on WW and whoever this other guy is. But, I don't know which apartment is hers in the building and I knew that no good would come from it anyway. I also want to do some more investigation to make sure that this other guy isn't just somebody she met in her building that went drinking with her and her friends. Doesn't seem likely. I'm heading back over there in an hour or so to see if the truck is still there (her apartment turns out to be a 5 minute walk from my office). I can then go to the office and try to do some work or something (God knows I aint sleeping tonight).

So, I'm now in recon mode. WW has our desktop computer at her apt. The desktop has a bunch of files from my law school days taht I need, and there is a lot of music that I had on there, so I am thinking about telling her I need to take the desktop to my office to transfer those files, and when I have it there install a keylogger on it that can forward reports to an email that I set up. Melody had reccommended a program in the snooping thread that I might try for $40.

For now, I am going to assume that my hunch is right, which for some reason is what my gut was telling me this afternoon after her suspicous phone call. If that is the case, my M is over. A two year affair, and now that OM has kicked her to the curb and went back to his wife, she is already out fornicating with another guy. Something is way off with her.

We did have a good marriage. I was a good husband to her. Her parents and sisters love me because I have treated her so well. We did marry very young, HS sweethearts if you will, but I am/was still truly in love with her.

The only thing that makes any sense is that she changed so much in the last six years that she just wasn't compatible with me. We don't have a lot of interests that are in common, but we did plenty of things together, we liked being together and doing things together. WW was always kind of big into public displays of affection (unfortunately, was not at all into private displays of affection) We just went on a vacation to Vegas in Sept with the leech friends (who we paid for the majority of their trip despite them being the ones to book it in the first place). Although it was supposed to be a romantic getaway and an attempt to conceive, we only had SF one time that week and it was the typical her not being at all into it. But we did have an evening that we spent alone, just walking on the strip holding hands and talking. It was one of the highlights of the trip.

I am thinking that WW was being brutally honest when she said that she just isn't physically attracted to me (I'm no poster boy, but I'm not bad looking) and that she isn't in love with me anymore. I just can't fathom how she could be in love with me, have a 2 year affair that is finally exposed, have that affair more or less end, and already be out having SF with some other dude.

Assuming that my hunch is correct, and she is sleeping around with a new guy, I can't imagine me ever wanting to try to work this marriage out now. I am very hurt. I want to do more recon and be able to prove it, but as far as I'm concerned, the M is over. WS Fog or no, I just can't fathom ever trusting her again after this.

Scotty

Scotty,

I am a firm believer in saving the M. But, if your new information is true then there is something bad wrong with your WW. If she is running from one man to the next, sleeping around acting like a teenager in heat it is likely for a couple of reasons. One, got married to young, sees loser friend screwing around and partying and wants some of that. Two, Is very needy and in need of affirmation for her self esteem and chooses to find that in men's attention. Three, is or has some mental issues undiagnosed (i.e. - BPD, OCD, NPD, etc).

In any case and others may agree and lastly I know this hurts your heart to think this way, but with no kids involved it may be time to Plan D her to the curb. No yelling, screaming, LB'ing, DJ'ing. No warning, the papers just show up for her to sign one day. If she calls and wants to discuss saving the M then have your boundaries ready and if she signs them day one then you know you will be better off without her.

Hang in there.