Scotty,

Her apt is 5 min from your office. Call her and ask to get the laptop now. Tell her I'll be over ASAP and don't forget to ask where the apt is. Do this just to see if she says sure or no way.

Maybe just one last option man. I know it's not much to go with.

Best wishes,
M2L

Scotty, I suspect she has crossed that magic line into full fledged alcoholism, which might explain this behavior. What do you think?

That won't change your response at this point, but it does add a whole new layer of problems to the mix. It means you don't want to stay in plan A much longer [it is just a means of exploitation for an alcoholic] and when you do go into Plan B, you would want to stipulate her drinking.

Why not call from your cell phone indicating you are on your way over to get your computer cause you need some files off it. Actually be sitting in the apartment parking lot. Step out of the car and get your camera phone or video phone ready to snap pictures as OM likely goes scrambling out the door. If not wait a few minutes (since your office is 5 minutes away and then go and knock. If OM is hiding inside you just sit and act like you can do the computer work right there. Then use the old "I thought I heard a noise....honey, I think you've got rats or mice in this apartment".

IF you are likely divorcing, I do advise you to attempt to get the full truth about your life before doing it. Your WW and later Ex wife will likely NEVER volunteer such information. I would think it forever more beneficial to be able to say "my ex-wife had a 2 year affair with a co-worker and was sleeping with some guy from the bar" than "She was having a two year affair with a co-worker and maybe some other guy from the bar".

"Maybe's" suck. Now's the time you can actually get the full facts about your life without having to rely on WW to give them to you.

BTW, her affair(s) are NOT about you, your masculinity, your physical attractiveness, etc. IT's NOT YOUR FAULT. This is all about her.

Mr. Wondering

oops, forgot you don't know her apartment number...oh well, just tell her you are in the lot after she tell you she is in her apartment. IF she gives some excuse why you can't come in or up, just say you have to have it. Eventually you might have to start knocking on doors in the region she parked. Once you know she's there and not answering then just lean against the truck as if it's a random car and indicate you need the computer and will wait all day for it. Of course, stay calm. This isn't about a fight...just getting the truth, NOW and deciding then what to do with the truth.

Mr. Wondering

Silly question:

Why not look at the mail slots? It may list the name your are looking for?

Just to update

Thanks for all the advice. I left the office right after I posted my last response, so I didn't have the opportunity to consider the options given.

I got my mother's car for some extra disguise, drove around the block 6 times or so trying to find a vantage point to where I could see the two cars but yet be in a spot where it was not likely I would be seen. I wanted to try to confirm my suspicions. If it was just a friend who lives in the same building, met WW and went out drinking...then it would be highly unlikley that the two of them would leave together. The spot that I had to settle on sucked because I could only see the front part of his truck and no part of WW's car (vision blocked by big SUV). Any other spot I either couldn't have seen anything or would have been to easy to spot. I don't want to let out that I am on to her right now as one of the posts above pretty much read my mind in that I want to find out what is going on, try to get some proof so that WW can't flat out deny it and then put her guard way up.

So, I waited. Sure enough, WW and New Guy come walking out of the building together. They walked to their cars and I lost vision. About 15-30 seconds later, I see the truck move, he leaves. Didn't even see WW's car leave as she must have taken a different exit out of there and her car was blocked. I wished I could have seen if they kissed or held hands or something like that. I will have other opportunities.

Pretty much confirms in my mind that she is screwing this guy. Way too many coincidences. And WW is being so sloppy. She makes the suspicious phone call yesterday that gets my guard up. He parks his truck right next to her car in the bar parking lot. He more or less tailgates her to the apartment. They leave walking out the building together the next morning, each going their separate ways.

I really can't believe this. I wonder how long this one has been going on. Was she having two affairs and just didn't tell me about one? Did she just start this? Was this just wham bam thank ya M'aam ONS?

I just don't see how I can continue to try to save this marriage. I won't make any rash decisions. Right now, I do not think that I will file for the divorce. I will leave that to her until our house sells, which could be a while. She is still paying the mortgage on top of her apt rent.

So after being sucker punched with the discovery of her affair with the coworker.....I'm laying on the ground in horrible pain....and she walks over and kicks me in the balls.

Scotty

Scotty,

There are not many things to say at this point. I wish some of us could be there with you though. I am sorry.

Listen, it is more common than not a WS will start a new affair soon after the current one ends. See it all the time on here. In fact that is exactly what a WH guy I know here at work did too.

It’s sort of like a distraction for the WS, I guess, from withdrawal from the first A. The guy at work even said he did it to get over the first affair. Totally foreign thinking to me, but it’s like a chapter in the WS handbook.

But with ED it’s a certainty they will do this. She is completely at the mercy of her cross addictions now.

Scotty, I would let her go. She has a long ways to fall now. And you cannot help her.

You are young, have no children and she is not going to get better for years and years, if ever. She needs treatment for her ED, her drinking and her philandering, in that order.

Let her go.

But if your heart will not let you, you must go into Plan B now. And do it by the book.

With prayers,

PS: Guy at work BW was willing to recover from the first A, but she could not see ever getting past the second one and D’d him.

Can YOU draw up papers and deliver them to where she works??

(((((Scotty))))))

hugs man

I'm very sorry Scotty

I think it's good that you want to wait a bit before deciding to file the papers. YOU matter...and if you need time to process this...take it. I'm a firm believer in the motto "Act, Don't React".

You've got a free place to live for a bit (cause she's paying the mortgage) and because you are still married you may be able to even rack up a little marital debt (if you want to be a bit vindictive).

It would be nice to discover who this OM is and find out if he is married or in a serious relationship and then expose him to his partner. Not vindictively, just as a matter of decency.

IF you do get into a confrontation on the issue with your wife it's always good to play it like a poker game. Keep your cards close, tell her you know what happened with this OM and don't tell her how you know. IF she maintains the denials, perhaps imply you set up a survellance system INSIDE the apartment (that you have since removed) or had a PI tracking them. Once you get that truth, perhaps bluff that you know about many others. (I suspect that there are likely a few more men that have been at the trough these last 2 years). Do this very calmly...just as matter of getting the truth. Remember, it's not illegal to SAY you wire tapped someone or set up videos in their apartment.

At times it may hurt and you may think you can't or don't want to hear it; however, IT HAPPENDED already, you can't change it and knowing it will only assist YOUR recovery. Unanswered questions only lead to speculation...speculation about the past is just not productive. The truth shall set YOU free.

Scotty...this is your life. Without some really bad times it's hard to truly appreciate the good times. You will make it and likely thrive as a result. No regrets.

Please stick around. MB is a personal recovery program as well as a marital recovery program. There are many here that have walked this path ahead of you and can make this transition a lot smoother for you.

Best wishes,
Mr. Wondering

p.s. - YOU are still a married man...I strongly advise you to avoid the revenge affair and not to date UNTIL at least a set period of time AFTER your divorce is final. YOU are vulnerable and unhealthy right now...emotionally unhealthy people attract other emotional unhealthy people. Focus on your work, your family and MALE friends.

Scotty... a while back there was a person whose WW broke up with the main OM, and went out right after D-day, and hooked up with another ONS on the rebound. Turns out, she hit rock bottom within a week of that incident, and came home a very remorseful WW.

You have circumstantial evidence, no more. You know about assumptions....especially in the legal field. All this could be as bad as it looks, but..... perhaps not.

Don't react to what you don't know. Get the key logger on the computer in her apartment. Do whatever you do, based on FACT, not on perception.

This marriage is not over until YOU decide it's over. Yes, this is tough, but if your WW is in the throes of chronic alcoholism, coupled with the ED, that does qualify in the "or worse" part of the vows you took.

All of us can understand why you would want to chuck it in, call it a day, and move on with your life....but what difference would another month or two make "in the rest of your life"?

Think about it...

Best wishes,
SD

WOW Scotty,

I'm so sorry for all the pain your feeling, but as the old saying goes what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. You are certainly putting up one he11 of a fight man! Geeeezzzz.

You have a lot of people here giving you advise (good, bad or indifferent)...it must be overwhelming huh? Send it Scotty! Fire Scotty! Do it Scotty! Do it NOW Scotty! But at the end of the day you need to be able to look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself, Do I like what I see here? Because ultimately whether you end up D or not, you have to be able to live with yourself. You need to be proud of who your are. Scotty, do what is in your heart. Pay attention to what you gut is telling you.

If you could step outside of the box for one moment and look through a new set of eyes at this same situation as though it were happening to a friend or relative, what would you see? What kind of advise would you give? It is time to take care of Scotty! You need to put this down for a while and concentrate on YOU! You need to BREATHE! This is all so consuming isn't it? You have done such a great job here! You have applied all the MB principles, but now its time to take care of yourself. Time to make some serious decisions on whether or not you even want her back at this point. It seems she needs serious therapy here. Do you have an IC?

I am really impressed on how you have handled this whole stich. You seem to be a very intelligent wonderful person with great morals. I really hope and pray you understand that this in NOT about YOU! I don't believe your WW set out one day to hurt Scotty. It IS about what SHE is missing on the inside. Sad but true. If you decide to take her back (because it IS your decision right now) you truely have a long long road uphill. When the fog does clear, and it will, she is going to come home. Will you even like what you see?

Best wishes,

MyBad
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Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer but wish we didn't.
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Thanks everybody for all of your support. I am oddly calm right now, but do belive that I am still in shock and denial over this new one. I am going to be very angry. Very angry. I can already feel it starting to stir up.

I will not take out my anger on WW though, at least right now. I don't want to in the future either; I want to be the better person, but I don't know if I will be able to hold of laying into her down the road. I will have to pray, and do my best not to. For now, I actually plan to play dumb for a while and try to get all the intel that I can get.

I hope that getting enough evidence of this new affair will be enough to convice her family that she is not doing just fine like she says she is (I've already told her family to be wary of this becase addicts lie, and she can do it with the best of them. With proof of another affair, maybe that will shed the light they need to see). She is one messed up woman. She needs help. I think that her family is going to have to do an intervention.

I can't be her knight in shining armor. I am not going to go file for divorce any time soon, but it would take something very radical for me to change my mind right now. I have to look out for me. I stood by her through a lot of hard times in our courtship and our marriage; I can't continue to do so; like Mike McD tells worm in "Rounders", the large heavy object is going to be falling down on WW, I may or may not push her out of the way, but either way the thing is going to end up crushing me. I have to let her go. I have to move on with my life.

Thanks to my family, friends, and the support that I have been given by so many people, including the enormous amount of support that I have got here, I will be a better, stronger person.

God must have other plans for me.

Scotty

""I have to look out for me.""

""I have to let her go. I have to move on with my life.""

Amen brother. Good luck to you!

Dropped back in to see what was happening with you, Scotty. Sorry to see you've discovered your WW is committing adultery with a second man now. I'm beginning to get a picture of your wife in my mind now, and I really don't care for what I'm seeing. So…she responded to being outed in one adultery by sliding right into another one without any withdrawal or remorse, huh? It's curious there was no emotional upheaval at all. I’m actually beginning to wonder if this one is actually #2, or whether he's just the latest in a series of other men. Well…I guess it doesn’t really make any difference. Two is way more than enough. Even Dr. Harley will tell you it’s nearly impossible to recover from two cases of infidelity.

I’m retired military, Scotty. I’m given to taking prompt, effective action based on the best information I have at the moment of decision. So I don’t know why you want to wait on filing for divorce if that’s what you’ve decided upon. You’re an attorney. You know very well the act of filing the petition does not severe the relationship. That happens 60, 90, XX days later when the final hearing is held. On the other hand, filing the action might send her a message--probably not, but maybe.

If you don’t want to file right now, how about going to a very dark Plan B while you wait? I don’t think you can Plan A this woman. I think she’s 2 or 3 years down a path of deceit and betrayal. I don’t think she cares about propriety and loyalty anymore. I don’t see any motivation on her part to change anything she’s doing. With that in mind, why not remove all your support from her and let her deal with the consequences of her decisions, Scotty?

Don’t let her know you’re hurting and don’t let her see you’re thinking of her. I suspect your WW is turning, or has already turned, predatory and she will feed on your misery. That mail pickup thing? Surely you realize her asking if she had anything important in her mail was a way of finding out if you were still dangling on the fishhook, right? In her mind, you had to still care about her enough to go through the mail for you to be able to answer.

Scotty, the alien is all about manipulation. Pretty soon, she’ll be gaslighting you too. Frankly, I’d tell her if she wants her mail, put in a change of address at the post office. Otherwise, you’re going to toss all misdirected mail into the trashcan.

Pardner, I think the healthy thing to do now is to defend yourself against this woman. If you keep worrying about her and wondering how she’s going to be affected by this or that, you stand a good chance of slipping more into codependency and the agony of all this will be extended indefinitely.

Get strong, Scotty. Start doing some things designed for the sole purpose of improving how YOU feel about things. And yes, start now. Nothing in the world ever gets better by sitting around and stewing about it.

Good luck. Hang in there, pardner.

The people here truly amaze me. I stand in awe thinking about how much time all of you took from your lives and your families to read my story, share your advice, and just be here for me. Thank you all so much. The counselor I talked to at my church really tried hard to get me to not expose to the workplace and wanted me to put WW in God's hands, and let God make our marriage work. I couldn't agree with her. I did pray a lot about it, and I really believe that it was God that sent me to the marriage builders website on Day 1 that ultimately led me to the forum to get advice and support from all of you.

I'm still going to post and whatnot. I still have a lot to learn and a lot of work to do.

I have not totally abandoned the possibility of reconciliation at this point. Whereas before the 2nd A, I was at least hopeful that we could work it out. That was truly what I wanted, knowing full well what that entailed.

I can't say that I have more than a tiny sliver of hope now. I honestly can't say whether I would want to try to work out this marriage at this point. I do think that I need more time to reflect on it though.

I also want to gather more information on this second A before I start thinking about a Plan B. I think Plan B would be difficult to do until the house is sold anyway. And I don't know that I'll do a Plan B yet; doesn't seem to make much sense if I decide that I don't want this marriage and am prepared for Plan D.

I don't want to file for D right now. I would likely do so after I have given myself some more time to let this soak in if she agreed to some terms that I want, which are mainly financial, but also a day where she agrees to 100% honestly answer any question taht I have for her (not likely to be 100% honest, but I would take what I could get). There are just so many unanswered questions. Like Mr. Wondering said, I feel it importnat to get as many of those answered that I can.

If she won't agree to my financial conditions, then I will let her file for the D if she wants to do so before the house sells and before I am damn good and ready. It will just cost her a lot of money because I will ask the court to grant me the financial conditions that I am asking for. The Court won't likely reward me what I ask for, but I would have an argument. But, as for the D, I want to wait to let this all soak in. If I had to decide right now, D it would be. Funny that is what wife was telling me after D-Day and I wanted to save the M.

Thanks again.

Scotty

Scotty,

As longhorn said:
Good luck. Hang in there, pardner

M2L

Quick update:

I was able to get my private investigator to do me a favor and run the license plate of the new guy's truck. I now have a name and an address. I drove by the guy's address tonight and verfied that the truck was there. His apt is literally 5 minutes away from our marital home. (Also worth noting that original OM lives literally 2 minutes from New Guy) Makes me think that this has been going on for some time. I am so embarassed,shocked, and hurt that WW was able to pull this kind of wool over my eyes.

Also went to the hospital and checked out WW's car. Saw that she had seasonex (sp?) sitting on the passenger seat. I assume that this is some sort of birth control.

I wonder why they decided to go to WW's apartment last night. His place was much closer to the bar. But her apt is closer to the hospital and she had to work this AM. Anyway, certainly is confirmed that this guy doesn't live in her building, that he slept in her Apt last night, and that of course means that they had sex.

Makes me also wonder if New Guy (at least New to me Guy) has a SO. If so, I will expose as it would be the right thing to do.

Scotty

Scotty:

Women take men to thier Apartment so they can be in control. Especially in the beginning. Later, when they feel safer, they can go to the mans house. Its got nothing to do with distance.

She has had one man already, after less than one week. You have all that you need to know. She might have another man every night from now on. How would this information change your opinion of her? As one poster noted, do what you feel you need to do, and keep your self-respect.

Stop investgating and following her like a lost puppy. Everthing else you find will be kicking your self-esteem even more. Stand up and start working on yourself.

Read about Plan B. Everything you need to know about it is on this site.

And you can sell the house. You do not need to negotiate with her, your Real estate agent can do that. That's how you stay dark. And yes, make her do the footwork of Plan D.

You can not change her. But you can change yourself. And become a man that she might find irresistable. But that she could never have. How sweet is that?

I need some advice.

I have enough information to know that she is in another affair. New guy spent Thursday night at WW's apartment, as indicated above. He also spent Saturday night there.

I talked to WW on Saturday morning as she came by the house to get her mail. She told me, not surprisingly, that her A with original OM is over. She now despises him and called him a selfish Ahole. She admitted that he dropped her like a sack of potatoes when his wife found out. She is still mad at me for telling his wife and thinks I did it out of anger.

I asked her what happend with us, and she just said that she married way to young and was immature, and that she married me out of obligation because I stuck with her through despite all of her troubles. She said that she is a very independent person and that she is happy to be out on her own. Out on her own, blah, she waited a whole four days from the point original OM officially called it off before she started sleeping with new guy. Of course, she doesn't know that I know about her new affair.

I called WW on Sunday morning to briefly discuss something or other. Got her voice mail and as I was getting ready to leave a message she was calling on the other line. I answered it and she must not have been paying attention becasue she was still talking to her friend and she said something like "I don't want to talk to him, and then used the New Guy's name and said that he was saying something or other. It is now obvious that this isn't just a ONS. I don't know that it would have made any difference with me even if it was.

Anyway, long story short, my WW has hurt me so bad now that D is inevitable. I don't have concrete proof of the new A, but I have seen enough with my own eyes and that is enough for me.

I don't know what to do now. I guess people are reccommending Plan B. That is writing a no contact letter correct? I think it would be very difficult to do the no contact as there is a lot of work that has to be done to our house before putting it on the market, and I don't feel that I should have to do it all myself.

Is Plan B necessary in light of the impending divorce? I know that Plan B is for me, to help me move on, but in order to move on the house is going to have to be sold.

I am also trying to decide how to break this news to her parents. I strongly believe that WW needs to get some help. I think I am just going to tell them what I know now and let them decide whether to belive me or not. I can't put myself through this much longer.

Finally, I am debating as to whether I should try to contact the parents of the new guy to tell them that their son is having an A with a married woman. He has a rather unique last name so via a simple google search I was able to find out his home town (which is on the other side of the country) and there are only about 10 listing in that town with his last name. I could probably find the right one by process of elimination. Part of me wants to do it becasue that guy is a sleaze to be sleeping with my W, especially being the rebound A (which he probably doesn't know, but should).

Thoughts?

Scott