Me – 26
WW – 27
M – 3 years, dating for 3 years before, no children

My wife and I met in college and married a year after college. We have always argued, and I have been guilty of love busters. The main issues for me were constant criticism (my wife probably has slight OCD when it comes to cleanliness and has trouble with change) and lack of sex (she would only have sex with me on Sunday night, and her goal was to get it over with as quickly as possible). I became frustrated, shut down, and started ignoring her in June. We started hanging out separately and she started hanging out with a single male friend from work. When I found out that sometimes it was just the two of them, I voiced my displeasure. One night (late July) we got into a fight, and she never came home that night. She said that she and her friend got drunk and she was too drunk to drive home, so she passed out in her car. I told her she couldn’t hang out by herself with the friend anymore and she became angry. Fortunately, the guy was moving across the country (to Boston) in mid-August, so I though I wouldn’t have to worry about it much longer. Well, I hung out with them so they wouldn’t be alone until he left. As soon as he left, she stated that she wanted to go see him. I told her I was busy at work for a while and couldn’t take time off for a while. She said that she wanted to go alone. I refused to let her go. It was brought up in one of our marital counseling sessions (the counselor was terrible, and I have since replaced her with a pro-marriage counselor), and she said that she needed to take a trip by herself to get some space and think about things. She wanted to go to New York (where we had a good time at the previous year) and I agreed as long as Phil didn’t drive down to see her. She agreed. As soon as she booked the trip I checked her email to see if she had invited him. Her password was changed. I immediately bought one of the keystroke loggers to get her new password and found that she had invited him. I confronted her and flipped out and told her it was over. I overreacted, and changed my position the next day. She said that she didn’t want to commit to the marriage and was going on her trip anyway. She insisted that he was just a friend and she was doing nothing wrong. This person fulfilled her need for conversation. She asked for a trial separation at counseling (with the bad counselor), and I reluctantly agreed. At this point I was desperate and was doing everything wrong in an attempt to win her back, buying her gifts, begging her, making her feel guilty, etc. She stated that she didn’t think she wanted to be married to anyone anymore, and that she wanted to pursue a career in publishing on the east coast. She wanted to see if she could live in New York. For background on this, my wife’s parents had a bad relationship. Her dad made her mom quit college and stay at home. They had children and their relationship deteriorated, and she was trapped in a bad relationship. When my wife graduated HS her parents got divorced, and her dad took all the money (I think her mom let him), and her mom was poor the rest of her life until she died of cancer last Nov. She has not spoken to her dad in 8 years, and he is dying of Alzheimer’s disease. She hates men, and I believe part of our situation falls into the category that Dr. Harley spoke of with issues of control, dependency, and identity. After our trial separation (one month) I moved back in, but my wife stated that she was leaning toward leaving me, but wasn’t 100% sure, so she wasn’t going to make a decision. I read Divorce Busting, got a new counselor, and found this website. I have made profound changes in myself, and identified all of the things I was doing wrong and fixed them. I am following a combination of Divorce Remedy and plan A. We live in the same house and hang out sometimes on the weekend, but my wife won’t touch me and still calls her friend in Boston. She has recently expressed the desire to go to Boston by herself in the next few months to check it out and hang out with her friend, but I have told her that is crossing my boundaries and will not accept it. I have not threatened her with what I will do if she books the trip, but I plan on making her move out if she does. She really has no place to go and loves her cats, so I don’t think she would like that option. I have spoken with a counselor and we have come to the agreement that I need to let her know that the trip is not acceptable, but not threaten her, and make her make a choice and live with the consequences of her actions. She talks to her friend in Boston about 4-5 times/week for about 30-45 minutes, but that is less than it has been. He expressed interest in her before the New York trip and I think that made her more wary of him. She admitted during the separation that she had feelings for him (EA), but never acted on them, or wouldn’t leave me for him. She says she just wants to be single again and prove she can make it on her own. We still hang out and go to counseling about one every other week together.

I just want to know what some of the vets think of my situation and what advice they can give specifically for my situation. I have read Dr. Harley’s principles closely and am implementing them as we speak, especially trying to fulfill her need for conversation. I am confident that we will get back together, but I want advice on how to accomplish that as quickly as possible and get this other guy out of my life sooner rather than later. I don’t want to have to go through with my plan to kick her out either if she goes to Boston. She knows that if we do get back together that she would have to stop talking to this other guy, but she is extremely indifferent about the marriage right now, and doesn’t want to commit to it. Thanks for the help.

- Jim

Hi Jim!

I'm sorry for your situation.

But, you've come to the right place for help.

You must bust up this A. Does the OM have a wife? Girlfriend? Friends that you can expose this too? Can you expose this to your WW's family? Friends?

~ Marsh

jmwc,

In addition to echoing Marshmallow's comment, what was the nature and circumstances when you confronted your wife's lover? If you haven't, may I suggest a trip to Boston so that you may convey your feelings in person?

Recovery is a lot of work; you've got to win her back and rebuild your marriage.

Only married three years and no kids involved. Are you sure you want to do this?

The friend from Boston is single and he was a coworker who left to move back closer to home (he actually moved to St. Louis with his girlfriend, but then she left him for another guy). I have exposed the affair to her sister and aunt (that's basically all her family that she is in contact with) and our mutual friends from college (but none of them actually live in St. Louis). She has friends from work that I have only met twice (and she is hanging out with them tonight). I think they might have some ideas, but she insists that OM is just a friend (it is just an EA). They know that she wants to go to Boston, and that she met up with OM in New York. The OM used to come over to our place in July and would hang out at "happy hour" with coworkers from both of our jobs. I have not contacted the OM since he left town, but I think he knows (through my WW) that I don't want him talking to her. I have been told by Divorce Busting counselor that contacting him won't help and may backfire. I have been trying to spend as much time with her as possible without smothering her and being pushy. She still wants more "space" but I'm not moving out. I also try to keep her off the phone with the OM, but she calls him on her way home from work or when I'm at the gym or the store. I have access to her email and cell phone records, and I check her text messages. I also know where the guy lives and I have friends of friends who (with no way to trace to me) have offered to kick his [censored], but I am not pursuing it because it will probably only cause more problems. I am displaying confidence that we will get back together and am being patient, but I know the talking to OM is the first domino that will need to fall for us to reconcile (because she will have nowhere else to turn to fill her emotional need for conversation). The problem is getting her to stop talking to him, but she won't as long as she is ambivalent about our relationship. She thinks she should be able to talk to whoever she wants, especially if she isn't sure if she wants to stay with me. She also fantasizes about a career in publishing on the east coast. Sometimes when we have gone out she flirts with other guys in front of me (like unbuttoning their top button or going up and talking to them out of the blue). She likes the attention. She also is not wearing her rings. Keep up with the advice, I need it.

- Jim

Jim...

If she met up with OM in New York please rest assured that this is NOT just an EA, it is a PA...You can BET on it...

Also, you can be SURE that OM has NO CLUE that you are very much into saving your marriage...Your wife has LIED her butt off to him I can assure you...Let him KNOW that you are in this for the long haul...Make some exposure waves on his side of the fence...Single men will often tuck tail and run at the first sign of any headaches...

Mrs. Wondering

I too get the typical WS speak. The marriage is over - why can't you just accept it? I just kind of brush it off now. The first few times it happened I would break down and cry and have panic attack symptoms. I am now on antidepressants and when it happened on Monday, I just said that I was confident that we would get through this and dropped the subject. 30 minutes later we were talking about her day at work and mine and what we going to do this weekend. It seems like she blows up me about once a week, we get somewhat close about twice a week, and she's indifferent the rest of the time. How long does this last? I notice the contact with the OM has lessened from about 6 hrs of phone conversations/week down to around 2 hours/week. I just want it to end.

- Jim

Find OM's parents...EXPOSE TO THEM Jim...Until this affair ENDS this misery WILL continue...

Mrs. W

I respect your opinion, but I think you are wrong. She told me she was upset that he expressed his feelings for her (I told her that he wanted her when she insisted that he was just a friend), and I believe she found out when she told him he couldn't stay in the hotel room with her. She said he stayed with a friend. I verified with phone records that she called him between 9-10am every morning. She also wrote in her journal that she could feel him pulling away from her (before the trip). I think she knows that if it became a PA that it would be over, so she hasn't crossed that line yet because she is unsure whether or not she is making a mistake. I have intercepted emails and overheard phone conversations (sometimes she talks to him in front of me) and there has been nothing sexual in their dialogue. She distrusts men and has issues with giving in to them because of her father. Are you sure I should contact the other man? My Divorce Busting coach advised me against it because he likely will not care what I say and just feed it back to her which will make her furious.

- Jim

I don't know the OM's parents. He is from NH I think, and he lives in Boston. I live in St. Louis. I don't know where to find them.

- Jim

Well Jim, you must INSPECT what you EXPECT IMO...So that means that you need to be doing some more snooping...Like putting a voice activated digital recorder in her car so that you can hear conversations that you have NOT been privy to...I am speaking to you as a FWW, and I am TELLING you with GREAT CONFIDENCE that you cannot believe ANYTHING that comes from the mouth of a WS...Please BELIEVE that!!!

As far as finding his parents are concerned, you need to become a super sleuth...Many here have used www.NetDetective.com with great success...On contacting the OM? Well I do know that the Harleys have advised that on occasion with SUCCESS...You can be sure that OM has NO IDEA that you are fighting for this marriage...That's up to you...Your marriage can survive your wife's anger, but it can NOT and will NOT survive an ongoing affair...Your call...

Mrs. W

This is how I would categorize their relationship. She thought we were over. She started talking to this OM looking for a friend. She missed him when he left and wanted to go see him. I found out and expressed my interest to stay in the relationship which surprised her. She was torn because she developed feelings for the OM. She decided that she couldn't be with the OM because she was still with me, but decided that she wanted her freedom. She thinks she can still be friends with the OM. She knows that if we get back together she was have to cut off contact with the OM. I think she has enough morality in her not to commit a PA (unless she thought I didn't want to be in the marriage anymore either), but can justify an EA to herself. She said that she was flirting with guys at the club in NYC and that she tried to get a girl to talk to OM. She told OM's friend that OM should hook up with the girl. OM's friend asked "I thought you and OM were together." I don't think she has crossed that line, but I may be wrong. I am a pretty good poker player (I have won over $1000 at the casino the past few months) and I can spot a good bluff. I knew she was lying about visiting him in NYC, but I don't think she is lying about no PA. That's just my feel.

- Jim

BTW...Congrats on the World Series Victory...You guys played great baseball and kicked our arses...YOU DAWGS!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

Oh Lordy Jim...EVERY WS thought that they had greater morality right up until they laid down in that gutter my friend...I can ASSURE you that I thought I'd NEVER go there...

I have more to say on this, but I have a dentist appt. right now...I'll check back later...

Mrs. W

I'm going to contact OM and OM's parents (if I can find them), but how do I get her to stop calling him?

- Jim

By putting pressure on the OM you will get him to end their "friendship". I wholeheartedly agree w/ Mrs. W. your WW is lying her butt off to him about your R. IF you contact him and tell him that you are still very much in your marriage, he will in all likelihood end the "friendship".

Oh, and DON'T tell her what you are planning to do. And expect her to get angry at you. You are trying to save your marriage, and the only way to do this is by breaking up this A. Your marriage will survive your WW's anger, but it will not survive an A.

~ Marsh

I contacted OM and left a message at his parent's. He seemed unapologetic. Said that she wants to leave me but doesn't know how. I'm just not going along with it. Said that they made out in NYC, but nothing else. Said he won't call her, but will answer the phone if she calls. Said he wants them to be together and hopes she'll move to Boston. I told him no contact. I exposed the affair to her family and friends and her boss (OM used to work with her when affair started). I let her know I knew about the making out in NYC and I exposed her. I told her I wanted to work things out but she needed to end it with the OM. She got pissed off and told me she didn't want to be with me. She said she was coming home tonight, but wouldn't attend our counseling session tomorrow. What should I do now??

- Jim

Hang tight. Going to MC wasn't going to be productive anyway as long as she's still in contact w/ the OM.

I hope you realize, this isn't JUST an EA.

I'm a bit confused does he live alone or w/ his parents?

~ Marsh

He lives with his sister and 2-3 other roommates. I used Intellius to find his former addresses and one was in Gorman, NH. There was only one listing with his last name at that address so I assumed it was his parents (it also said he was related to them). What do I say to her when she comes home?

- Jim

She's probably going to yell and scream at you. BE CALM!!! Keep repeating that you will do anything you can to save your marriage. That was why you exposed. You WANT to save the marriage. She will probably not hear what you say, but keep repeating it often anyway. Don't expect her to understand yet.

He lives w/ all THOSE people? Then he is in no position to take care of her. What a joke!! How did you maintain your cool talking to him?

~ Marsh