You were connecting w/ her.

This is just a bump in the road.

You keep working your plan.

She's got no future w/ that loser.

~ Marsh

Jim,

I concur with many of the above

Work your plan

Many a WS have what is called "closure contact"

Perhaps try to get her to open up about the contact itself

What did they discuss?

How did she feel before? after??

Ask questions to try to get her to open up in a safe environment...then...listen and listen some more

The whole time you are meeting her need for conversation

It matters not if it's hurtful or not

She's talking to YOU...that is progress

It's very likely the contact with OM now is quite empty. The drug, for some strange reason, doesn't give the same payoff.

As far as her tirade...about "staying with you but never any love" essentially...I got the same thing way back then. It's not real. Stay calm in the face of fog talk like that and babble back. Reverse babble. "We finally agree honey, eventually, a loveless marriage will be pretty empty for me also...I don't see myself wanting any hugs or kisses either at that point in time...I'm only interested in attempting to 'rebuild' our marriage...after a solid effort by both of us for a good chunk of time and without OM in the picture if we fail I hope that you'll be willing to let me go" (I don't know...something like that)

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- What she's dying to talk about and feels she can't with you is this: She misses OM, feels like she may be missing out on perhaps her soulmate, wondering how she can stop doing what she feels she HAS to do (stay in contact), considering just divorcing you at times, that she'll never live her actions down and will forever be guilty and YOU are going to hold it over her head forever so what's the use.

Sometimes...you've got to guess what they are thinking because saying it out loud to you just seems unconscionable. If YOU put it on the table as acceptable discussion in a peaceful, nuetral, non-hurting/dispassionate, understanding way...you make it OK for her to open up. Then YOU get to help her process those feelings. Not by teaching her...but by merely listening and puting you "fixer" male away for awhile.

I forgot a few other things she's thinking:

- I don't think I truly love Jim anymore and don't see how I ever can again (which is where almost every WS starts out at in recovery...don't take it personally...trust that)

- I just am not attracted to Jim anymore (same thing)

I know all of that. I am okay with the slow progress. The thing that I can't handle is the contact with OM. That just opens up so many painful wounds. I'm fine slowly working through our problems. I expect that. However, I expect my boundary of NC with OM as well. I just had so many awful flashbacks today. It felt like D-day all over again. I know I'm winning the battle. Thanks for all the kind words and advice.

I didn't do any relationship talk tonight. In fact, the WW didn't want to talk at all. She got home from work late and we just watched some TV together. We joked back and forth a little bit about what was on the TV. We're going to bed now. I'll survive, but I am not looking forward to the next contact.

I can't remember...have you contacted OM's W, and have you advised her of the most recent contact? If not, you should.

Try not to give OM so much thought. He is really insignicant in this whole process. The more you let him stir you up, the less focused you are on the real tasks at hand.

He is of no more importance to you than a vandal who recently keyed your car or truck.

Your "attention" to him, gives him power. Keep the power, and your thoughts of the OM in check.

Mind over what doesn't matter.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

SD

OM is a single loser. He is no longer contacting my WW. If she contacts him, he will talk to her, but he has not initiated any contact since the beginning of November. I think he has given up on my WW. However, if my WW starts calling him more and more, because he is a single loser with no prospects, he might become interested again. I think she is trying to pull him back in so she has someone to go to if she decides to leave me. I think he sees this, so hopefully he won't bite.

Jim,

you know everything these people are tell you. I know you do, you know you do. That doesn't make it easy. It is still shi*.

Get with the program man. Do something about it. Yell at me Jim. I can yell too. Damn my wife for what she did. Why Why Why???? That b****. Now let's hear you yell about your wife. Come on!!!

Don't you want to join me and NC in Jamaica? Have a drink on the beach with our wives. What do you drink??? Me - Margareta or ice cold beer. My wife likes Cosmos. How about yours? Tell me about her.

M2L

[censored] that b1tch! There, that felt better. I do want to go to Jamaica and lay on the beach. I drink just about anything, but I really like Margaritas, and some imported and microbrew beers. Sorry NC, but I'm not a red stripe fan. I prefer Newcastle, Boulevard Wheat, Paulaner Original Munich, Shiner Bock, and Labatt Blue to name a few.

My wife likes cosmos, tom collins, gin and tonic, and some of the beers that I like (Newcastle, Labatt Blue, Boulevard Wheat, Bass Ale, and Smithwick's). She also likes Jaeger shots. Her favorite vodka is Grey Goose. She and I both like dry red wines, especially Cabernet Sauvingnon (but I like dry whites as well). We have pretty refined tastes (because I can afford it and she has started to develop those tastes as well, she used to be a Bud Light girl).

What else? Well, I'm a breast man, and she has the nicest, most perky set of 'em. That's enough for now. This is a family board.

We had our honeymoon in Jamaica. I'm not a Red Stripe fan either. Strangely, during our two weeks in the land of rum, I drank almost exclusively gin and vodka. I also love Shiner Bock in all its forms (I'm from Texas). Have you tried the Shiner Bock 97 or 1897 (can't remember)? Very very good black lager...nice deep flavor. Anything Paulaner is great too. I also like Warsteiner and Spaten.



Gag. I can't stand that stuff.


This was actually a parting gift from me to my XWGF. She was a Zima girl, and I got her hooked on Fosters <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Some of the "best" times I had in my life, most of which I don't remember, involved Foster's.

Today, I can't look at a can of it without feeling woosy! LMAO!

Hang in there, jmwc!

Jim,

Yes that is enough for now. She sounds like a fun loving wife. So Margaritas and cosmos on the beach. Light wind blowing just enough to keep you from getting too hot. The wives in bikinis. Fresh fruit and sea food.

SOUNDS GREAT!!!

Now that is your goal. Keep you nose down and keep going. I know it is hard work. Heck I can't remember how many times I was on the riding mower with my sun glasses on crying. I did it there and not in front of my wife.

A goal, you want a goal???

Last night my wife tells me out of the blue "I think we are getting along better than we have in years." Let the OM choke on that!!!! F him, she is with me now and wants to stay with me.

You will get there too, you are doing better than you think.

M2L

I know I'm doing relatively good, it's just that I can't stand the contact with OM. It drives me completely insane. I don't have as much invested in this relationship as most. I am still young and I don't have children. In addition, I know I am a darn good catch (attractive, smart, funny, responsible, moral, and have a very good paying job for someone who is only 26, or any age for that matter). I had decided that I was done dealing with her affair and was going to divorce her, and she pleaded with me not to just yet. She said that she couldn't commit completely to the marriage just yet, but she PROMISED to have NC with the OM. I had already moved on in my own mind to prevent any more pain from being inflicted upon me. But I gave her another chance, and she has twice broken her agreement. And here I am getting my heart put through the ringer when I could have already been just about done with the paperwork by now.

Don't let that F***ing OM win!!

Jim, I don't know you from the man on the moon, but I can see what you are. You are a good H and man over all, if I can say that.LOL You have gone beyond the call of a H at this point. You have grown in your learning.

Man you can't stop now, it truly is so worth it.

Anyone else have ideas here???

Jim,

Why don't you give us some details of what your wife says. It has helped me and NC.

Things like:

Jim says XYZ

Mrs Jim says XYZ back

Try to understand you are dealing with two personalities in one body. One, the W you know and love, the other, the WS. They are 2 seperate personnas, and the one who is contacting the OM is not your W.

Affairs are addictions, not unlike an illness, and trying to quit is no different than quitting smoking, drinking, crack, heroin, etc. A WS's every thought is all about getting the next fix. Withdrawal is HARD. That's why you keep your steady, consistant, postive efforts in place. There's an old saying here in Kansas where I grew up, where most of the trees tip a bit towards the north because of the constant south wind... "the steady wind bends the tree". You are that steady wind that will allow your W to find her way back home!

Best wishes,
SD

Basically, I say the standard MB line: NC is essential to end the affair. As long as there is contact there is some residual emotional attachment to OM that should be directed toward me. As far as I am concerned, as long as there is contact, the A is still ongoing. Contact extremely hurts me, and reminds me of the act that was committed against our marriage in the NYC hotel room. You promised NC. I only snoop to protect myself against getting hurt again.

She says, I just wanted to see how he was doing. I just want space. You have no right to snoop. He is just my friend, and I'll call him whenever I want. I have been better lately and only called him once a month. I hate you, and I hate my life. I don't want to be married to you, but if you insist on keeping me here, I'm letting you know that I'll never kiss you or have sex with you again. You are such a controlling a-hole. Every time we have a fight you always bring up my PA. You'll never get over it or trust me again, so why bother with this sham of a marriage. I am so sick of pretending to be married.

Me: NC means NC. I'll continue to snoop until I am confident that there is NC with OM. The last time I gave you "space" you had PA with OM. I'm sorry you feel that way, and I understand how you feel, but I know that we can have a happy marriage again, and your feelings for me will come back like mine have for you. I only bring up the PA when you try to excuse talking to OM. I'll learn to trust you again as our M improves, you work on it with me, and there is NC with OM. I'll continue to do whatever it takes to save our M, and I know things are improving despite this last setback. I know you don't mean all those mean things you said to me.

Like I said, it's not the words that get to me. I could care less about what she says to me. That is the WW talking. It just drives me into a panic when she contacts OM behind my back.

Don't try and understand why she finds the OM so appealing. She can't and no one else can explain it. More times than not the WS will select to have an A with someone who is completely opposite the BS. If the BS is good looking, funny, kind, considerate, loving, communicative, honesty, trustworthy, etc then the OP will be ugly, cerebral, rude, short, closed, untrustworthy and will lie at the drop of a hat.

How can one explain wanting to be with someone like that? There is no explanation, none. Trying to figure it out will drive you insane. That all said you are still doing great carrying out the MB principles as well as being a big help to others here.

Oh, I know why she finds the OM appealing. The people that know the both of us call him the anti-Jim. He is scrawny, scruffy, irresponsible, smokes pot (I for the record have never smoked pot in my life), very liberal, artsy, and a complete pushover. He moved across the country with no job and the only possessions he had were his car, clothes, and some personal items. He lives in a rented house with 4 other roommates (like a commune).

I on the otherhand am muscular, well-groomed, completely responsible with a great job, conservative, opinionated, math/science oriented (I'm a chemical engineer), and an all-around great guy (not an adulterer). We have a great house in a nice area that is almost completely furnished (there is one room that is still completely empty, but hey, I'm only 26), two cars paid off, and we take trips all over the place. We were planning on going to Europe this year.

I know that the W (and any other sane person) would choose me, and it's the WW that chooses the OM. I don't lose any sleep over that (as you can tell my self-confidence is not lacking).

Thanks for pointing out that I am helping out others on this board. I have been helped immensely by this board, and I want to give back tenfold. If (okay, when) my marital problems ever get solved, I would like to help start a MB class or something at my church to help other couples with marital problems.

Jim,

You know that I know that you know this stuff. That right???


The only thing you or we can't help with is time. It takes time... a loooong time.

Trust in God and yourself and even your wife. If she didn't want to be with you she would be gone by now.

Step back and reread your thread, but put another name to it. What would you tell this person?

I bet something like: Your doing good, keep it up and give it -wait for it wait for it.... TIME.


simple, but not easy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

M2L

Time sucks. I wish I had Adam Sandler's remote and could just fastforward to when my marriage problems are solved. Click!