Many new arrivals hear so much of the same advice repeated back to them they believe this is some kind of a cult, and leave, never to return. I was totally overwhelmed that complete strangers would offer heartfelt assistance to me on my original posts, and would sit trying to comprehend the responses while in tears. These forums are amazing!

SD

Some other news to report from last night:

Just as we were getting ready for bed, my WW snuck up behind me and read what I was reading on MB. She normally won't even stop to look, but today I guess something sparked her curiousity. I was looking at Eph's post where he said his WW found his digital voice recorder. Well this just made the WW jump out of the woodwork (it's all your fault, Eph <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ). She went on an LB tirade. "So all you sick f*cker start spying on yours wives." She continued to spew more venom including, "yeah, I have maybe crossed the line, but that doesn't mean you should have." Blah, blah, blah. Well, she is an LB queen and I didn't fight back much, but I started tearing up a little bit, and then she started calling me a p*ssy and emotionally weak, and then went on about how I would never get over this. That is where she got me to start crying again.

She then asked where was this during the summer before the A started (for those of you who don't know, my WW was constantly criticising me, never meeting my needs, and this summer I started ignoring her to shield myself from the pain. I went into withdrawal). It told her this summer was a mistake, that I still loved her this summer, but I mistakenly put a wall up and ignored her, instead of working on our problems head on. I apologized for my part of why the state of our M was bad this summer, but I said it didn't excuse what she did. I told her when it happened I reflected a lot on our relationship realized that I truly loved her and there were things that I was doing wrong in the M, and I knew that if I had a chance to correct those, we would be happy together, and I owed it to us to fight for another chance.

I was quite emotional the entire discussion (of which she got pissed at me for not being able to hold it together), but I didn't got back to my old ways which would have been to get extremely angry and crank the LBing up a notch, get in her face, scream at the top of my lungs, and get psychological with her almost to the point of emotional abuse. I told her this was the true me and I used to get so angry before because I would hold all these feelings inside.

She then said that I would never get over it (that is when she brought up the fact that I cry in my sleep and say her name), and I told her that I have already forgiven her, and just want to make our relationship happy from here on out. I told her it would take time for me to completely heal, but that the better our relationship got and the closer we got together, the more I could let go of the past.

This discussion lasted about 10 minutes, but then we calmed down and went to bed. I tried not to LB the entire time, and that is why I cried instead of getting angry. I think she started to feel bad about the whole discussion this morning because she gave me a hug and told me to have a nice day when I left for work. I leave for work before she gets up, so I barely ever get an acknowledgement from her when I leave.

I think she is starting to feel the guilt, and she is trying to push it on me - blame it on me for shutting down this summer. She sees me crying and she blames me for being weak so she doesn't have to feel the consequences for what she has done. I'll completely ignore last night's conversation when I see her today, and we'll just continue to move forward. Although it wasn't a pleasant discussion, I can point to a few positives that were revealed including her admission that what she did was wrong (even though she said I was just as wrong for snooping - whatever), and her showing some signs of guilt.

Right before bed we joked about my crying in my sleep and I joked back that I wasn't the only one that did annoying things in my sleep (she's really been snoring like a buzzsaw lately). I told her that I loved her, I was going to continue to work on our M, and that we would be happy together.

She doesn't even bring up D anymore. I'm 99% sure we'll be fine, it is just a question of how long until that day.

first your wife's quote:

"So all you sick f*cker start spying on yours wives."

Man I told you to stay away from here when she is around. I can honestly see where a WS might see this place as ganging up on them.


second Jim's quote:

"I can point to a few positives that were revealed including her admission that what she did was wrong (even though she said I was just as wrong for snooping - whatever), and her showing some signs of guilt."

That talk about guilt part came about 1-2 months after NC for my wife. My wife would say once in a while things like:

"bet you never thought you would have M a cheater?" DUH no

"I bet you want to just kill me for all of this? I'd get into too much trouble with the law. LOL

"This is all my fault for putting us in this sitch." Yup

It was slow though. This is when my taker wouold want to come out to play. I was getting something even if it was very little. I got a word or two of guilt and I want MORE and NOW. Watch it close. Very hard part to handle.

You are doing good.

M2L,

I don't want my WW to come to MB, but I am not going to act deceptive like she does. She knows I am tracking her, she knows I am posting here, and she is free to come to MB and check it out. I have nothing to hide.

She is just a little defensive and guilty about what she has done. It is starting to hit her, and she loses control sometimes and takes it out on me. I can't help but show a little emotion when she does, but I do not beg, plead, or LB back. She is looking for me to fight back like I used to, and I'm just not anymore. This makes her feel bad. We've got a long way to go, but we're starting to get on the right track. She even referred to her relationship with OM as an "affair" instead of just "friendship." She is starting to get it. She won't admit it, but she is starting not to like what she did, and now is in the phase of looking to put blame elsewhere instead of herself, or bring up things I did to try and minimize or lessen what she did. Once she truly comes to terms with her guilt and lets it go, I think we can start working on our M again.

She also got pissed that I wasn't giving her the "space" that she wanted the whole time. She said that she didn't want to spend Sunday night with her friends with me as well. You see, she has MLK day off and I don't, so she asked me if I wanted to join them. I was excited and said that I would love to and asked for the day off. When I told her earlier in the day that I got the day off, she said "good." Well, I reminded her during the fight that she had invited me and was happy that I took the day off. Well, she didn't know what to say to that. It just makes me realize that everyone is right about the split personalities. There is my W and my WW. Well, WW forgot that W invited me on Sunday night. I don't listen to anything that WW has to say. It can get to me somewhat, but I brush it off quickly.

Doesn't that feel good?!?!? It did for me. My wife told me that the OM was a friend with privileges. Yeah right like he was a credit card. My A55 privileges!!!

Wow, Jim... are you secretly vying for the MB poster boy of 2007?

Seriously...you are doing great. You are seeing the rewards of your efforts. As withdrawal continues, so will her waffling. It's like living with two different people!

All of what you wrote brought up so many memories...those conversations were so familiar. My W would just spit out little tidbits along the way, nothing earth shattering, but more like Freudian slips, using the word "affair", and crumbs of words "alluding" to the fact she might have behaved wrongly. As the fog clears, they became more frequent, but with them came some real emotional outbursts, totally Love Busting me in every way, downright bitter and cruel. Remember it is a roller coaster for them too!

You are doing great. It is the sustained ability to keep the actions that your W found offensive under control. I call that my Lifetime version of Plan A. No Lovebusters, no temper, absolute control of my emotions and my MOUTH!

This period you are in right now will last for a while, longer than you would wish, but it will slowly morph into a more "natural" lifestyle. The better you are at planning and executing Harley's 15 hours a week together, the faster things will transpire. Just beware the ups and downs of the coaster and remain in control!

Best wishes,
SD

Dang it Jim. That's twice now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jim, here's a thread I started when I was just a bit further into recovery than you are right now. I thought you might find some helpful information there.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...true#Post618045

Things are still progressing well, I hope?

SD

Things are progressing, but I don't know if "well" would be the adverb I would use. "Slowly" seems more appropriate.

Here is my latest update:

This weekend went pretty well again. Lots of time spent together, lots of love bank deposits, very few withdrawals. Her friends came over this weekend and we hung out at our place and watched some videos and played some games. I probably got a little tooted, but a good time was had by all. There was no awkwardness or anything. As they were leaving, I talked to her one friend (the one who gave my WW OM's number after I deleted it), and she said she thought that we'd be together again and wouldn't enable my WW by giving her OM's number anymore. So, another positive.

Well, I just have been feeling down in the dumps lately. My taker is really crying out to be placated. My WW made plans with another friend on Friday, she is still totally non-committal about the M (she's always like, "It's my life, and I need to decide what I want."), and she's getting extra bossy. She was totally bossy and ****** and non-affectionate before (that's why I shut down this summer), and now it seems like she is just using me. She b!tched at me today for making noise as I'm getting ready for work (we live in an 87 year-old house with hardwood floors and the floors creak), she's totally bossing me around about looking up how to transfer info from the old SIM card to the new SIM card for our new cell phones I just bought, she's bossing me around to spend money on fixing the car to take care of the limbs that came down during the ice storm, just everything. I'm just getting sick of it! Something better happen by Valentine's Day or I might just cut her loose.

She is now acting like she did pre-A only with NO affection or SF instead of once every other week. She has got me acting as her d*mn slave, paying for everything, taking care of everything, meeting her ENs, and not even LBing her anymore. She has got it made.

Jim it sounds like withdrawal symptoms but they also remind me of how my WW was during her EA and PA. I really don't know what the difference in actions are between the two since many are so similar.

I thought withdrawal symptoms would include being depressed which would manifest itself with things like excessive sleeping, crying, extreme moodiness, etc.

NC has only been going on for a few weeks so it may still be very early. Hang on for a while longer and see if she tones down somewhat.

Hey Jim:
Rotten day, sounds like. You have been Johnny on the Spot for a loooong time, schelpping around doing EVERYTHING right and getting nothing in return. Unfortunately it's a long term investment that doesn't pay off until later....but the returns will be big.

Wish I could give advice but I'm not qualified. Pep or believer would asking me about self-pampering when my taker needs attention. As you are guy, however, I am a little at a loss. Bubble bath? Chocolate? Highlights in your hair? A trip to the mall? ...probably not working for you.

Let me think...a good, cold beer? A new powertool? The Rams winning a game? The Cards winning a game? Going fishing? Playing cards with the guys? Of course, what you REALLY want just isn't QUITE there yet. But it will be. You just have to make do in the meantime.

Hang in there,
LS

I'd like to self pamper - except I get ripped on everytime I spend any money (let's not forget the part where I make more than twice what she does).

I'm just venting today so I don't take it out on my WW.

Jim,

See the chit I was btching about back in Oct. Same damn thing I got from my wife. You read my btching word for word and told me to hang in there.

SOOOOOOO

Put the taker in hold for a while more man. Your wife is dealing with this the best way she knows how too. She is still blaming you for stuff, but not the same stuff as before. Like how bad the M was and how bad you were.

Man I feel for you, but you are so close to the end of the WW part. You owe it to yourself to meet the FWW.

Glad to hear it about her friend and not willing to help her with the phone #.

Hang tough and change hands for a while!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I know what you are saying M2L. You know that I know. This is why I'm venting. I'm still sticking with plan A, but I have a right to b!tch and moan every now and then.

YES you do my man, yes you do.

Your wife is going to crash hard one day when she see what a truly great H she has.


wish I knew how to give a cyber high five!!!

Before I get started, I'd like to say that I can't edit the title of my first post for some reason. I can edit my latest posts, but not my first, so I'd like to change the title if someone could help me out.

That being said, my WW contact OM today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I don't know how to read it, however. I'd like to start out by saying that my taker had been acting up lately. I wasn't really LBing or anything, but some of the things she doing/saying lately had really been pissing me off. It got to a point yesterday where I said (in a calm but stern voice), "I'm tired of being treated like garbage. I have bent over backwards to try and save this M, and all you do is yell at me, complain, and boss me around with me getting nothing in return. Listen, I have no problem doing things for you, but I need you to treat me with respect. Afterall, I am here with you trying to save our M even with all that has happened. I will not be disrespected." She hugged me and said she was sorry and didn't want to talk about it anymore. Other than this she has been more engaging with me, spending lots of quality time together, hanging out, having fun, talking in the future tense with things that included both of us (like redoing the second bathroom), cuddling on the couch, etc.

Well today, she took a break from work to call me. She told me that she had just called OM to tell him that she wouldn't be contacting him anymore. Well, she usually tries to hide it when calling OM (like using a prepaid calling card, but I always find it), but today she called him from her cell phone (which she knows I track) and decided to give me a heads up. I told her she didn't need to call him, but she said that she owed it to tell him personally. She then said that she never loved him or anything, that he was her friend, but it just went too far, and there would never be anything between them. She then said that I was her friend too, but she didn't know if she could be my wife anymore. She said she didn't know if she wanted to stay here at her current job, and didn't know if she should be married. She said she wanted to get away from it all. She said even her friends were pissed at her (I assume because she got the friend who told me she wouldn't enable her to give my WW OM's number again). She talked about us maybe separating, and her finding some place to stay. I just told her that I still loved her, I'm sorry she felt that way, but I know that after she does some sould searching, I know we'll be together in the end.

My question is how do I read this? I hate the fact she called OM and talked about separation, but I think she is being truthful in letting him know that she told him it was over between the two of them. I got the sense that before when she initiated and then broke NC before, she would always leave it open-ended like, "let me get this figured out, and if I leave him, I'll give you a call and we can start this up again." I think the separation part is because I have been pushing a little too much R/M talk. I think she is really starting to feel bad for what she did, and I think she wants to run away from things.

I guess my plan is to let her know she can feel free to stay here, and I'm going to back off on all R/M talk. No more pushing. She won't have to leave because there will be no pressure put on her by me.

I don't see how she would leave anyway. If she did, I'd separate our finances. She would barely have enough to pay her own bills, and I don't know if I'd have enough to cover all my bills AND the big mortgage payment without some of her help. She loves the house, and doesn't want to move, especially if she couldn't move her two cats. I think that she is stuck here, so I guess I shouldn't worry about it.

I just want to know if you pros agree with my take and plan of action, and give your advice as well. It's so easy giving other people advice, but when [censored] happens to you it's like you've forgotten all you've ever learned. If nothing else say a prayer for me and my WW. Thanks for all of the help.

M2L, if you want to email me your digits, I could use someone to talk to.

there is no reason to ever contact OM again

there is no "closure"

any "goodbye" ought to be done in writing and get your "OK" first

she was wrong to do this

Pep

I know. I told her she shouldn't have contacted him. She has never agreed to work on the M. She only agreed to NC so I wouldn't cut her off financially. I tried to get her to write a NC letter, but she never would. I wonder if this is what she thinks is the final contact.