Hi SL,



I understand...that's what PLAN B is for.... to 'miminize' the pain....temporarily.... give BS a 'break' from it enough to be able to 'think' things through..make plans...to move on should no real 'sign' from WS materialize....

...in the meantime...any contact with WS, and even news in my case....can be quite painful... but the differences are subtle.... is may not LAST as long.... as we learn more and more better coping mechanisms....

Hang in there, SL.... you are doing just fine!

Update.


Well...apparently this was not the answer WS was expecting....

He called me wanting to 'clarify' things 'directly'....I said I preferred he leave a message and hung up....

Message from WS, more or less: 'Bringing the boys back a day earlier was not what I was asking.... I asked whether or not you wanted to go with them for the sleepover...to allow OUR boys to continue to see OUR family friends'

I suspect he got 'guilty' feelings over the thought that his choices mean that the boys saw less of our dear friends... or that he did not want to spend the 31 with the boys..... I don't know...

This is my reply...and took the opportunity to do a PBL reminder:

BS message:

"Your first message led me to believe that you had 'other plans' for the 31 other than going for the sleepover at our friends house...which is why I suggested, if that was the case, that you just bring the boys a day earlier

I do intend to make arrangements to see our friends and their children other than by a longstanding 'family tradition' heavy on memories of happy moments spent as a family with them

It is not my intention to stop OUR boys from seeing those who have been in the past OUR friends

Please let me know your decision one way or the other

I am sorry for having 'cut you off' on the phone... but as I have told you before, I am prepared to speak to you 'directly' when your choices will make it clear YOUR family and ME...OUR family is a priority for you and in your life...and that you are ready to recommitt to doing whatever is necessary.... this, obviously, is impossible as long as you are having an A with OW..because I believe it does not enable you to see clearly the impact of your choices on those that love you... and to act accordingly..."


I know that the last part could be taken as a LB...but it is what I believe and so wanted to be honest... and needed to remind him on why ending the A was an important element to US talking to each other again and not just a 'caprice'.... the OW is like this big wall that needs to come down first in order for us to even START to communicate again...

I keep remembering Mimi needing to 'repeat' often to her WS to 'get rid of the OW'...whenever she could...

I guess this is my version...as it is 100% true....NOTHING can move forward without that....

it's WS's choice.....OW....OR...FAMILY....but NOT both!

Excellent job Luna!

I feel that, in most cases, it is necessary to repeat that his choices have impact on ALL involved, as long as there is an A. I think that there is a difference between stating a truth, and a belief, without assumptions, and being outwardly judgmental. I don't hear judgement in your statements to WH. You are being O&H. It's MB all the way.

Thanks SL,

I appreciate your comments... and support.... and it is what I thought...communicating my 'truth'.....

It is partly how I think WS copes and keeps the 'illusion' going that boys are not being impacted by his choices... if he can maintain pre-A rituals like these...even if a big piece, ME, is missing ....things 'look' OK...

...it's like holding on to the house key when the house burning... or 'compartmentalize' his relationships....like different rooms in a house....that aren't connected.... until one rooms burns....and moves on the next!

...will WS realize that a house key means nothing without a house? ....that in fact all rooms are connected?

....that is WS's journey... but I will not WITHHOLD information...to protect him from what I perceive to be reality!

To BSs...a lesson learned!

A few posts above, I left a message to WS that included the following:


Guess what?

....because of what I said....the content of his next message basically 'proved my point'.... and only allowed WS to turn the knife in the wound a bit..... a WS just doesn't 'get it'.... as long as he is involved with OW!

So....save your breath....or else know that all you will be doing is 'permitting' WS to get on his 'soapbox' and DEFEND his waywardness! YUK!

I guess I needed a little reminder.....having been in PLAN B for so long....I had forgotten about the 'justification' speeches of WS.

That's it...I really have nothing more to say to WS... the dots for the path back home cannot be put any 'closer' than I have already put them...

Up to him to wake up one day, or not!

I am trying to figure out what I am feeling right now...

I know I let WSs last message 'get to me'.... and although what I usually feel is pain....this time around it is accompanied by an unusually high dose of ANGER...

I am trying to figure out......why?....I think WS has crossed a 'line' somewhere...MY line of what I consider 'decent'....

Was it him telling me that he will go to our longstanding family friends....and impose his OW on them? ....to do what?.....to get a stamp of approval?.....to legitimize his mistress in the eyes of our friends?

They are friends of OUR family.....and they want very much for our children to stay in touch because they enjoy each other's company and have known each other since they were little....but....the mom before having a family was MY friend...and now WS wants to impose his OW on them?

I guess this is one of the first time that I am really embarrassed by WS's actions......I truly am ashamed to be his wife....

I have emailed my 'friends' to expect a call from WS about it so that they would not be caught off guard....although I can see them, for the sake of wanting to be nice and for the kids, to consider 'tolerating' the OW....

I am so mad...WS can't even respect the 'family memories' that we have had with them....no....he needs to trample all over them by imposing his OW on our friends!

I guess I also feel powerless to do anything about it...that also is making me angry.....other than letting our friends know....and leaving message to WS that, if that was the case, I suggested again that the boys come back one day earlier rather than impose OW on our friends!

It never ceases to amaze me the lack of respect and decency shown by WS, and the amount of selfishness and insensitivity towards others!

I need to step back...because I am soooo angry right now....

Thank heaven for PLAN B....

I just got a 'glimpse' of what I am missing....emotional turmoil.....

Gotta get back behind my PLAN B wall....for safety!

.....good thing WS is not right in front of me or else I would join MIMI in wringing his neck!

...anger is new to me....any suggestions on how to deal with it?

...personally...I feel like leaving a message to WS and 'telling him off'.....or 'talk some sense into him'...but I won't!

...that would probably just make him run more to his OW for comfort...and cover! YUK!

...talk to myself and tell myself...that in 2 days it will be over....one way or the other....and I will survive it!

Gawd!!! ...two days is a long time!

I will have to think of ways to keep busy...

Gawd!!! this affair-business really sucks sometimes!

My dear Luna,

U know there are stages to this grieving process. Please read my link and take 3 deep cleansing breathes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Then put your left arm on your right should and your right arm on your left shoulder....now squeeze firmly but gently, 3 times. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

There..... you've just received an MB hug, from me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Btw, you know he is still a WS if he is babbling. You also know how to handle the babbling right?

L.

Thanks for dropping by Orchid...


Since I am in PLAN B....I should be ignoring it all....

I know that this is partly happening because of the lack of an intermediary...and the fact that our 'means' of communication does not have a 'filter'...which makes it really hard to NOT REACT to WS's justification....

...I forgot that nothing really is sacred for a WS....I should expect him to want to 'destroy' our family's memorable moments...but somehow this last plan of WS's to 'impose' his OW on our family friends really got to me....

...this is where...I guess not having an intermediary... means I need to be 'extra' disciplined....and not 'comment' about anything that does not directly concern our boys...

Well...I fell off the horse...I need to get back on it!

What I don't quite understand I guess is what nerve it hit....because this really really hurt...and there really was no way I would not have heard about it....whether before or after....

I seem to be more 'familiar' with pain and so I am better at 'coping' with pain...

But...anger? ...it's not a feeling that 'surfaces' up very often with me....

I don't particularly like it..... there is a lot of sense of helplessness and powerlessness with it!

Is it not just my pain taking on a new disguise?

Uhmmmmm.....just for the record...because I need to 'come clean'... 'falling off the horse' for me means having sent WS the following message:

"I hope you are happy...

...as it comes at the price of a lot of pain for myself and the boys...

whether you recognize it or not"

...so basically....my anger may just be at myself...for having 'fallen' for the babbling of a WS!

I am hoping this will now 'keep me in line'!

It better!...I am not very good at handling anger....

...and I should EXPECT some more babbling from WS.....I have just given him some ammunition to do so!

ARGHH!

Ammunition is only as valid as the response from the back of your head to your heart when ever his lips are moving - "blah-blah-blah"

Remember - the rantings of a mentally ill wayward should be reduced to those three succinct words - blah-blah-blah!

You'll find as you start to filter out those rantings that this is all they are really saying - at least until they step onto the path of recovery. Your head will be able to tell the change in dialect and tone and meaning from blah-blah-blah to "I regret from the bottom of my heart the harm I perpetrated on you and my children. I don't expect anything of you as I spend the rest of my life making amends." Unfortunately, some WS are too far gone to ever recover this minimal level of mental health.

Luna,

This is exactly what I felt a couple of weeks ago. One thing I can tell you is that, when the anger and pain subsided, I was able to think very clearly. I was given a very clear sign that my H is most definitely WAYWARD, and control is a farce.

I remember, some time ago, I posted that there was a thread that still connected WH and myself, and once that was gone we had nothing. Well, that thread was my control, which I never really had, and the illusion of it is definitely CUT. I learned a BIG lesson.

I know that the Harley's suggest a two year wait prior to 'moving on' or D. Is that from the first Dday, or is that from separation on? It will be two years since the first Dday in July '07 for me. I will be filing for D then. I've seen that there is no way to bring someone back; they must come back of their own free will. I've been shining the light for a long time now, and he doesn't see it.

KA,


I like your suggestion...and intend to use it!



This is a very good 'point of reference'....thank you....I will keep it in mind...

Hi SL,


I agree...and it was always clear to me that that's how it would have to be.....I always knew I had 'no control'....

What I do find surprising is how 'LOW' a WS is willing to go...but then....given their broken moral compass....a BS should not be surprised...

Believe it or not.....I really didn't think that my WS would put our 'family friends' in the position that he has put them in..... but I also know that they care about our boys... and that is how WS is able to 'manipulate' them into accepting his OW into their home...

Latest news: my 'friend' just confirmed, that although they were 'divided' at WS's request to be accompanied....it looks like WS, OW and boys will be ringing the New Year together with them....

I have told my friends that I respected their decisions.... but was also O & H.....and that given their decision to 'socialize' with WS and OW.....it would mean, us, not seeing each other....

The emotional mess that a WS is able to create is illimitless!



SL...if I continue to allow 'hits' to the LBank from WS like these...I may be joining you....as of July '07, it will be 2 yrs that WS moved out.....

How sad!

How disappointing!

I guess your "friends' aren't the kind of people you thought they were.

(((((HUGS)))))


~ Marsh

One of the reasons I have for filing for D in July, is that WH has now had a total of 3 OW (#1 original OW EA/PA--May - Sept '05; #2 OW - EA - by phone and lunches, happy hours, etc.; #3 - some woman at WH's work- single, probably younger). I don't see any hope for our M, our M does not exist to him anymore. I finally GET it!

WH may not be ASKING for a D, but his actions SHOW that he does not want M. I don't know him at all anymore, we're just parents, not even co-parents. Here comes a big NO NO........I ASSUME he does not love me anymore (tears are welling up [email]d@mnit[/email], fighting them back). People always say not to assume, but these are not the actions of a loving man, are they? I see no future here, no hopes, dreams unfulfilled, kaput.

Now, in your sitch, your WH has only 1 OW; not a serial cheat, but still a wayward.

I'm so sorry about your sitch with the friends, and I know how deeply that hurts. GAWD...How I wish there were some way to be as delusional as a wayward sometimes, to not feel the pain and see the destruction; to deny reality...

So sorry about all of my ranting and blah blah's. I sure wish that I was more helpful. I'm sure not helping you feel better. Not the best friend right now. Luna, I've found a comrade in you. I keep up with you whenever I see a post. I'm here and I know your struggle. I'll be [email]d@mned[/email] if I'm not happy again one day, but that day is NOT today...

Still waiting for Kayla..............

Ladies - It is essential to wait and endure. Hope you saw the American Values Institute article on enduring. I waited for 3 and a half years, ended up divorced, but very happy and at peace. I promise that you will get there too.

I am sorry...for being back so soon....

Things generally really weren't going that bad over the holiday period, at least no big lows were happening...as it's almost the end of it....

...maybe that's why my guards were a 'little down'...and so this latest situation really 'hit' me hard....

I tell you, people, the tears are rolling down....it had not been this bad for a long time.... this must have hit a 'core' nerve.....it's bringing me back to those times when WS was still at home and flaunting his A in my face....
I am feeling the same helplessness....

...right now....generally not doing a good job of 'protecting' myself!

...and for sure.....I know many of you KNOW what I am talking about!

...and I am feeling stupid...

...should I have expected anything less from a WS?

...and to think that, for a time, I had put up with this on a daily basis!

...I know that there is little anyone can say or do....really.... but it helps to let the 'moment' pass...in such......very good company...I must say!

I feel honoured to know some of you here.....even to the point of saying...that all this pain is worth at least the fact to have gotten to know many of you here!

I really think that the knife was not just turned in the wound, this time.... it has actually gone of few inches deeper...and it hurts like ******!

I need to get 'busy'!

See you all later...

..just noticed a couple of posts....

Hi MM,


Actually....I know them enough to know that they are 'helpless' like I was ....when it comes to the manipulative ways of a WS.... they are just not as well 'informed' as me.... after I guess, almost two years, of being part of the MB board! ...and I am still falling for 'it' sometimes...as you can see!

...but I don't want to excuse them....other arrangements could have been made for our kids to see each other... which is why I will need to 'maintain' a distance.... and add 'another' loss to my list....

Hi SL,


Geesh....I am so sorry, SL....didn't realize that was your case!


...you don't have to be 'helpful'...SL...you just 'have to be'.....

The MB Board is a special group for me...because it is where we can come to share our 'pain'...and share being true to ourselves....as many many people around our everyday lives have a lot of difficulties 'accepting' us in our times of pain....and often they just don't know what to do....society prepares us poorly to deal with 'pain'....

...I like the simplicity of being 'honest' with our feelings... and as you can see...I certainly am with mine.....not holding anything back!


SL?....am I detecting a sense of wanting to justify you're wanting a D?

....because as far as I am concerned....the day an S choses to become a WS....a BS has the right to her own 'protection'.... by distancing herself from a WS... it does not mean one all of a sudden stops 'loving' anyone... although it may happen....

I chose to love my S.... and as the Harley's say....everyone has the potential to become a WS..... I love my S/WS.....but I also love myself enough NOT to tolerate the abuse of WS....hence, the distance of PLAN B....which may very well easily turn into D.... if and when necessary....for the BS's own well-being....and future.


EXACTLY, SL.....and more precisely....NOT this moment... because I am sure you can figure out how to 'shorten' that a bit...to 'waste' a whole day on it would be way too much....

....I think of you as a very 'resourceful' person, SL....I am sure if you put your mind to it...you will figure out how to take care of your 'taker'.....

...and I will try to take my 'own advice'....

Hi Believer,



Thank you, B...for being 'living proof' that one can get 'there' from 'here'.....like many here, I just need to figure out HOW to get from 'here' to 'there'.....

No I have not read the article....if you have a link....it might just 'hit' the spot!

Sorry for my long posts...but that will be a challenge for another day....NOT today... as SL so very well put it!

No, this is what I was trying to tell you.

The only loss you are really experiencing is the loss of what you thought your friends were about...family values.

They are more concerned w/ staying friends w/ an adulterer than they are about the message they are sending their own children.

Prior to MB, I'd NEVER have anyone over my house who was committing adultery, let alone have them over for a sleep over.

As you said, they could have gottan the kids together another time, or w/o your WH and OW.

Please don't believe you lost 'good' friends.

(((((luna)))))

~ Marsh

Hi MM,


Yeap....MM...you are right....another one of my 'illusion' bites the dust!