It's best that it did.

To believe they are the people you thought they were would only add to the pain you are feeling.

Believing them to be outstanding family people, would mean that outstanding people just rejected you.

And that's NOT what just happened.

Morally confused (bankrupt perhaps) people just held up a sign letting you know who they were.

Good to know.

Reality is ALWAYS the better choice.

Leave illusions and fantasy to the waywards.

~ Marsh

I am a little worried....how many more 'friends' will be 'biting the dust'?

....I feel like a 'dinosaur'..... and we all know what happened to them!

Thanks MM...I appreciate knowing that there are people 'out there' like you!

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. I choose to love my husband, and am not available for the wayward, and PlanB has been a godsend for that. I am not trying to justify a D for myself. I guess my question would be how to know the difference between knowing I want a D and knowing that my M is over?

I KNOW that I will not remain in a M that is not a M. In that I mean, without my H, without my partner, there is no M. I have absolutely no idea what H is thinking, so I must think for myself and my son. For myself, I don't want to be married to him anymore. I'm ashamed of him; ashamed of his behavior toward my family, and especially me. It takes a lot for me to say that I am 'ashamed' of someone or some situation. Disappointment doesn't cover it anymore. I was, intially, disappointed in my H; now he's acted with such utter disregard to EVERYONE, even his own friends, by carrying on affair after affair.

Even in the midst of all of this evil, I know that my H still exists, buried somewhere not to be seen or heard from, but still there. I am moving farther away from the hope that H will ever resurface. With that loss in hope, comes a surge for me to press on without him.

Am I angry, Yes, and work on that daily, but I don't believe that the sadness and disappointment will go away as long as we are married. It will just resurface with each turn of the knife. I also know, that even during and after D proceedings, I will feel some regret and wonder what I contributed to the fall. There is no escaping that.

I guess I don't see the point of remaining legally married to someone who isn't there. Am I crazy? 'I' don't feel that anything will ever change, so 'I' make choices based on my needs. I WANT my H, but I don't need him.

My life is changing bit by bit, my daily habits, how I sleep, who I talk to, HOW I talk to them, who I care for, HOW I care for them, I've learned so much so far, and hope to learn more. I'm ready for more change, and I think that will also involve letting H go, hence the D. MY CHOICE

I have been separated from my WH for 3 weeks now-his choice to leave. He called this morning and left message on machine to our son "Hi buddy just wanted you to know I was thinking about you and I love you." no mention of me at all-it hurts so bad. I feel like I have not only lost my H but mt best friend.

I printed out the letter to WS's by Trueheart-do you guys think it is ok to give a copy to my husband when I see him or no?

Thanks

Hi jrobin,

Sorry for the situation you find yourself in....please know that your feelings of pain are normal given the circumstances...and you will need to find ways to cope with it...it's difficult to give you any advice as more details are needed.

If you don't have your own thread started....I suggest you start one...giving as much details on your situation as possible...and I am sure MB members will come forth with some advice.

As far as giving your husband the letter...if he is involved in A right now....I don't think it will of much help....

If your WH is involved in an A, the first step will be how to 'break up' the A....and so, please remember to give details to whom A has been exposed...

Hang in, JR. I know it's difficult to imagine...but once you figure out how to deal with the pain...have a plan of action...it will get better.

Hi SL,


...your M is over....now it's a question of whether or not...you want to give a chance for your S to show up and try to 'rebuild' a NEW M...

PLAN B is to protect yourself from 'additional' suffering that a WS finds EASY to inflict on BS....given their self-centered mode...and BS needs to 'stay away' from WS for that reason....

SL...I do see the 2 yr mark as a chance for S to show up.... but more importantly...I believe that a BS is hard-hit by an A....the betrayal of our trust by the one BS 'trusted' the most...some compare it to 'rape' or the 'death of one's child'...it is a very traumatic experience...one that will require some time to recover from....this is where the personal recovery plan comes in....

While in PLAN B...that is the objective of the BS....to nurse our wounds....

When is one ready for a D? ...Ideally, I would think that it would be when WS's actions no longer have an 'emotional' impact on BS.... but it is a very good question, SL...and I hope some others will give more feedback about it....

SL...I am hearing a lot of 'pain' in your post....I am so sorry.



Keep making the changes.....and keep telling yourself that whether or not you stay in PLAN B....whether or not you D.... it is a 'choice'....

I don't consider it a 'choice' if the only reason you would choose, say D, is to minimize the pain....because it won't.....

...but I do wonder....which comes first...the egg or the chicken.... and don't really know how much getting a D will help in moving on.... I know for a fact....if done too soon.... some regret having chosen that route too soon....

Thanks Luna,

I am a work in progress, and so I progress...

As I said before, I know a D will not take my pain away. I'm hoping to have a clearer picture by this summer; if not, well, we'll see what I might do. I may end Plan B, if I feel the impact of WH's behavior is low. I really don't know, it's all up in the air for now. I'm not deadset on D, but I am now looking at it as an endPOINT, not the end. WH STILL has not signed LSA (initiated in July), so I'm a bit worried that I may have to file for D in order to secure my finances. I'm not extremely worried, but I have no idea what WH might do.

I'll be using the blah, blah, blah technique no matter what I choose, so that will be helpful. Also, reverse babble sounds like a worthy challenge. I oh so wish I had those tools in my arsenal in the veeeeery beginning. Anyway, I do go on....

Hi SL....I agree....no need to rush.....unless of course as you say, you need to protect yourself for financial reasons.......as a WS can stoop very low.....unfortunately.

I think I am a little emotionally drained right now... and can confirm that it is NO myth... the holiday season is TOUGH on a BS!

Take care, SL.

Thank you Luna, for your time, your patience and care.

I have posted before but I will give a little recap. H told me in Aug he "wasnt happy never really loved me" etc. In Oct found out about OW but they were "just friends" the contact continued. 3 weeks ago he said that he couldnt (or wouldnt??) treat me the way I deserve to be treated so he moved out. OW is married too and I did tell her H.

H has had very little contact with me since leaving although he does call son daily. Everyone at work knows (we work together) about the A.

He spoke to SH this week but has not spoken to me since his appt so I dont know what his thoughts are after speaking to Steve. Steve wants to talk to both of us next...not sure if he will agree.

One other thing that worries me is he is now frequenting bars with the guy he is staying with-I feel he is probably pikcing up girls there too-so its not just this other woman I have to contend with anymore.

Jrobin,

So you can benefit from many others' advice, I am going to start a thread, and will cut and paste your posts.

Please look for this thread -

WS has moved out: JROBIN seeking advice on what to do

Well....I guess it won't be surprising to learn that I had a hard time sleeping last night.....even though I really needed to!

Going out of the city with a girlfriend today, who is well aware of my situation, that I got to know mostly after WS left, and a guest of hers, to go outside the city for the day!

...this should help me to get some 'emotional distance' from the many wounds that were stirred up after learning about WS's plans to continue celebrating the New Year with the same family friends....except this time he will have OW at his side!

The family friends were at first reluctant...but apparently explained it away with the fact that their children looked forward to spending the 'traditional' overnight New Year's celebration with our children so much....that they couldn't say no....

..this was after talking to my 'friend' earlier this week and letting her know that the boys would be with their dad on the 31st, and suggested to my friend that I would very much like to see them and have our kids get together....but would prefer starting up a 'new tradition'....

...bottom line....I see that my 'family friends' would rather continue the 'traditional' get together as is with WS and the boys....and are prepared to 'tolerate' WS being accompanied by OW.... even though this means not taking into account how that would make me feel....

...guess there are a few friends, besides WS, that would just prefer 'I go away' and not question their actions....as I have...

...and a longstanding friendship may just bite the dust from my end only!

I know that affairs can be trying for 'family friends'..... and can put them in a very difficult situation.... and obliges them to have to navigate very sensitive waters.... but sometimes it does force them to show their 'true colors'....and show them to be either considerate or inconsiderate....

...and as it turns out in this case....I find them to be inconsiderate towards me...

...I would give anything to be a fly on the wall to see how they will relate to 'OW'.....although they say they have invited another couple to help relieve the 'tension' I suspect they are anticipating....

Hi Luna, sorry to hear the upset you're suffering through. Here's a serious question:

Why do you want this man back in you life?

You're in eastern Canada aren't you Luna? I'd love to take the boys away for a long weekend/mini vacation. We visited Canada once & loved it & I'd like to take them back, fly in from Providence, R.I. Do you have any suggestions?

I'm thinking 4 or 5 nights.

Hi nams,

...nice to have you visit...



Nams?....I don't want THIS man back!!! He's a WS... self-centered, inconsiderate...and in total denial of the impact of his choices on his 'family'... he talks about taking responsibility for his role as a father....and is sorry that I lost a 'companion'...nothing related to the loss of our family...an entity that he doesn't even acknowledge ever existed...

This is not the man I married, Nams..... and the fact is....I may never see him again.....

I am in PLAN B for a good reason..... this WS is involved in a romantic affair....and I do see the parallel in his behaviour similar to that of a drug-addict.....who is prepared to do ANYTHING....even rob his mom...to get his drug.... his moral compass seems to be totally 'kaput'... the one thing that holds WS back....is his level of guilt....I think he has reached his limit...and can't afford to be too 'mean' even according to his standards, and somehow inspite of it all, seems to want to 'respect' me, again in his own crazy way, or he will really have a hard time facing himself in the mirror.... as far as A is concerned... he has it 'rationalized' away somehow!

That's why my staying in PLAN B is very important to protect myself.... and I must filter out anything he says except the essential about boys...otherwise I would go nuts trying to make any sense of it.....and must admit...KA has given me a very good method....we are calling it the blah-blah-blah filter.....I even tried it....it works, for now at least.



Not the most eastern, in Quebec, Nams....write me an email....giving me some specifics about what you are looking for....and will see what I can suggest...or direct you to!

Hey Luna,

I guess my question about why you would want "this" man back in your life makes the point that this IS the man you are married to. The way your WWH is now IS the man he is today. From your description he has been remarkable consistent in his behavior.

You've been in plan B for 1 1/2 years. That's a long time for someone to be acting out temporarily or as if processed by their internal poor decision maker. I wonder what your WWH will need to do to prove to you he is not the man you married & is perfectly happy, or at least willing, to be the man he is now. The question then becomes why & for how long are you willing to live in limbo?

I appreciate your offer to help point me in the direction of what might be fun in your neck of the woods. I'll email you.

Hi Nams,

I really appreciate your taking the time to post your thoughts... and you are asking me some very good questions...

...because, inspite of how it looks like on the outside and the length of time... there is still some indication that lead me to believe that this WS is not as 'convinced' that what he is doing is the 'right thing'....and may actually be having major 'internal conflicts' about his choices....

- for one, WS and OW still 'officially' live in separate apts...but don't know if they have future plans to live together or not
- WS has not yet taken any steps to 'legalize' the separation, let alone start up divorce proceedings
- OS has mentioned that he has seen WS 'burst' into tears while just sitting at the table, so...WS is not a happy-camper!
- insisting on wanting to talk to me, etc. and do friendly co-parenting, to me is more or less, a way for WS wanting ME to make this RIGHT....

....nothing will make his choices right...but ending the A! ... and that is what I am telling him in my PLAN B...right now, he does not want to hear it!

Nams...I was so hard hit emotionally and psychologically that 1 and 1/2 yrs I am realizing is a drop in the bucket when it comes to the healing process....and believe me, PLAN B and staying away from my very self-centered WS is helping tremendously...

For now I don't have any 'signs' that I need to get legal protection for finances, in fact, the opposite is happening...he is being extremely cooperative with finances...because certainly if that were the case...I WOULD have to consider legal proceedings from my end...

...and inspite of feeling 'lonely' at times...knowing now that there are worst things in life that can happen to you....I am learning to appreciate what I have.....and am a long way off from considering a new R....
...BigK or whoever suggested 'one year for every 5 yrs married' may not have been off the mark that much...


...so PLAN B is a good place for me to be...I have spent 20 yrs married...so I am learning to 'function' solo and building up confidence, and find that I am not doing 'so bad' and actually learning to enjoy it.... I am losing some friends over this...but I am also making new friends... I am taking it one day at a time as much as I can...and not look too far ahead....

...one of the pitfalls of my PLAN B is not having an intermediary to 'filter' things out....but then again...I cannot be totally 'ignorant' of his moves...seeing that we both take care of our boys, I cannot totally be 'protected' from learning about some of WS's inconsiderate actions... actually I am trying to learn from it...and that really nothing a WS does should surprise a BS!

so...if on one hand I am not holding my breath that WS will come out of it any time soon...I am also in no hurry to get into another R....

..but that is why I wondered if NOT intiating D proceedings hold a BS back.... but I also know that a D is not a solution that will make things 'right'...

....at some point....that balance will be tipping over...I remain...'vigilant'.... and trying to be attentive to my 'gut' feelings..... which right now are 100% telling me to stay away from WS!

...while WS in laland continues to be faced with the 'reality' of his choices....

Update.

Well....just spoke to my mom...she wanted to ask me how things were with WS...but basically needed to let me know that on New Year's, WS had called them..... and pretty well confirmed that WS is no happy camper in lalaland...

I don't know at which point he called them...before or after being accompanied by OP and then leaving the boys at 'family' friend's house on New Year's Eve....

...but mom tells me that WS asked a lot of questions about them...my brother...about my dad's health....telling them how much he cared about them (my parents practically 'adopted' WS into our family), and I am sure both my parents and WS 'miss' seeing each other....

...and she said...WS was crying when conversation ended...

...I reassured her that for now the door was still open should WS decide to get help...because as she put....it sounded like someone needing help! ....I agreed with her....but that I could not do anything, seeing that he was a grown man, until WS chooses to get help....

...it 'through' me off to hear this...

My main 'professional' resource is my SIL who is a psychologist, who knows well myself and her own brother...SIL basically confirmed what many would say here.... that by WS trying to 'impose' OW to his family....our friends... he is actually letting reality 'hit' them more and more... and thereby is being hit more and more by the 'loss' of his family!

....basically...the pain of the loss of my M and family that I have been 'living' the past 2 yrs...seems to be just starting to hit WS as he proposes OW to the 'world'!

uhmmmm.....and SIL confirmed...yes....that when one wants to hold on to an 'illusion'...it can take some time, years even, before reality hits you... that WS chose the A/illusion....without taking into account the consequences....loss of his family..... and that reality may just be now catching up with him!

uhmmmm....basically confirming that the best BS can do...is not to be an 'enabler' in maintaining illusion..... but rather allow reality/consequences in....the sooner the better!

basically confirming that for a BS.....PLAN B....is the only way to go....for both personal recovery and a chance at M/family recovery....by allowing A to follow its 'natural' course!

Love my SIL....great support system.... started conversation as an 'emotional wreck'.... as I caught on...it ended it with laughter!

I was under the 'illusion' that WS was 'happy' with OW....not so...not so, at all! ....and that is the 'reality' of an A....as so many here keep reminding us all!

..asked my SIL how come WS seems to ACT so sure of himself..... well...apparently WS is showing me what he WANTS me to see ..... the 'illusion' that he knows what he wants...and by showing me what apparently is his 'defensive' side....merely means that he is 'hiding' his uncertainties....

yezzzzzzz <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

“Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to deceive” Sir Walter Scott