SD:



Done...a very CLEAR 'NO' at that... and it was a trigger... but I have been dealing with triggers for awhile...so I am getting better at it, I guess!

....just let him try to go the legal route... can you see WS trying to convince anybody that he has the right to sub-lease the apt above him to his mistress and....could you please force my wife to consent to it?

SB:

LOL...I like your conditions, SB....

Thanks guys for dropping by.... I really appreciate the support and advice.

I guess my biggest worry was that I would get to the place I was after D-day... feeling totally helpless, powerless, unable to do ANYTHING...and I was pleasantly surprised that it just isn't so....I feel so much STRONGER than where I was after D-day....

...and one of the reasons is that I know I can count on you guys to be there for me!

Thanks...thanks a million.

Hi Luna,

I have to say I don't understand what you're hanging on to. It doesn't sound like you have much love left for your WH and he LBusts at every turn. It sounds to me that he doesn't want to divorce because it would cost him too much. Monetarily, emotionally, and perhaps in terms of his children.

How he is living now is not costing him as much a divorce would. From what I've read he's not acted in any way that would suggest he wants to do what it takes to recover your M. This arrangement suits him because he doesn't have to commit to anyone, you, his OW, or your children. It's divorce that would take the la la out of his sails, not this state of uncertainty you're living with while he lives in a state of suspended responsibility.

Hi Nams,

Thanks for dropping by. I will consider your thoughts.

How are you doing?

Hi Nams,

Thanks for dropping by. It's been awhile.



No...I don't love WS...but I am hanging around for....S... and I think that a WS does go for what costs the least and does Lovebust. I don't find his behaviour to be 'typical' of S.... the contrast is too great... he 'used to be' very responsible...

I have not yet figured out myself why I am 'hanging' on... and until I do....or until WS has done enough Lovebusting.... I guess I not yet prepared to take the initiative to legalize anything....

What I do know is...that I am getting stronger... and if before I was in shock and afraid....my reaction to his Lovebusting now...after the initial 'shock' reaction...is «OK...if it means life without S....ever.... I will be OK...»

...and it may sound like it's taking me a long time to 'process' the situation...and some may find it surprising... but I find that 2 years... among all the daily responsibilities to deal with.... is not a long time to process a major life change... or...I AM JUST....VERY SLOW!



Yes...that may be true, Nams.... but if the arrangement suits that him that well....he would not be having bouts of crying... and be so unhappy.... and perceaving himself negatively... in one of his messages he tried to convince me that he and OW are not 'monsters'...what? ...I never referred to them as such... HIS perception.

....during our M, he was prone to bounts of depression.... I guess I need to see if this is the case here...or NOT.... his 'inability' to take responsibility...to take steps to legalize the matter.... may be as you said... his way of sitting on the fence....or that he's just NOT WELL...

How are you doing?

Let him buy you out - if you're in a state where real estate has dropped in value, tell him through your intermediary that he's welcome to buy out your interest in the property - at peak market values - where ever they were when the market peaked, otherwise, you do not allow a homewrecking liar to take up occupancy in a residence you have an interest in - she doesn't pass the credit test.

Hi KA,

He's not asking me to buy him out.... I may consider it if he does....I may consider D if he initiates it....because then I will KNOW he's committing to END M....but this is not the case...

For now....WS just wants me to consent to rent apt. above his to his mistress...asking me 'not to be an obstacle and accept reality'!

Nams is right.... he wants it all....with the least amount of effort...

...but the whole thing is fishy! ....he knows me better than that...and that I would not consent to anything like that (or else WS is really out to lunch!).... is WS having a hard time standing up to OW?!! ...will this force him to take the legal route??... actually force him to make a choice?... we will see....

For now at least...WS is choosing NOT to live with OW..... ...do they ever intend to live together? Is WS buying time..with the 'until the boys are grown'....but he has put them and us through so much already why not go all the way?....and if she's his soulmate.... why WOULDN'T THEY LIVE TOGETHER?!!! ...and I suspect she may be asking herself the same question.... because it looks like WS doesn't seem to be willing to committ to her, either...and I guess WS is happy that she willing to take whatever 'crumps' he offers her... to ask his wife to consent to have her rent the apt above his?.....

....and I know he misses 'talking and discussing and making decisions' about the boys with me....parenting the boys with me... he seems to miss his family.... yet is unable to take the steps necessary to do anything about THAT.... because he is AFRAID that R will fail?.... because withdrawal from OW will hurt?.... because his on a path....and just going with the 'flow'.....a victim of life...just so he not be responsible for this whole mess??!

If some FWS here be willing to help me out to understand this better I would appreciate it!

P.S. Just read my last sentence.....

..and just realized that I fell in a trap that I regularly fall into... trying to make some sense out of WS's actions....

....regardless, I will welcome any and all input from you guys...

Well...I am not sure why exactly...but since OW wanted to be a tenant in a property in which I co-own....and since she 'hides' behind WS....not knowing what he tells her or not.... I wanted to personally let her know that I DID NOT CONSENT....and so I called her and told her so.

I think after 2 yrs... in which WS has avoided making a clear 'choice'... wanted both the cake and eat it, too..... this situation may actually 'force' him to make a choice...

I don't think he can 'swing' this....without going the legal route.... which I think WS finds 'too much trouble'... if he really wants OW....then he will do it.... end our M, legally.... sort out our assets.... and I can move on.... OR NOT!

....WS is basically back to square one....he can't have both...as Dr. Phil says: you choose the behaviour....you choose the consequences.... they go together..can't have one without the other!

...I will wait and see...but I am definitely much much stronger than after D-day....and now know that I will be OK which ever way this thing goes.....

I think you are doing just fine. Try to stay in Plan B and ENDURE. I'm sure the affair will end. My ex and OW took 4 years to end it, but it still crashed and burned.

To what end the waiting, Luna?

You said you don't love your WH, do you want him back? Is this waiting for him to let go of his "fishy" behavior done out of obligation? What does the best case scenario look like for you? You say you hang on for S...what do you mean by that?

I agree, you have fallen into a trap of trying to understand your WH's behavior. Why? What difference does it make if he's acting out of character, out of pain, out of selfishness, etc...The bottom line is his behavior is selfish and harmful to you and your children so why let it go on?

You're in the driver seat but not taking the wheel. It's as though you set a course on your wedding day and have continued on without adjusting for curves and obstacles. You're allowing WH, who is in the back seat dozing, to determine which way you go.

If you truly believe you love your WH and want a life with him why not step up and say that? Tell him you want XYZ and if he's unwilling to provide that he needs to move forward with D or you will. Under what circumstances do think he will come back to your M and resuming the responsibility he's abandoned?

O.K., you asked how I am, thank you, so I'll tell you. This week I started graduate school for certification to teach art. I've also started a one day a week art teaching job at a local Catholic school, should be interesting. I'm still teaching pottery so my plate is very full. I have a non-existent love life which is fine because right now I don't think I could manage that.

The last two people I was in contact with ended in kinda funny ways. One told me that after "scrutinizing" my photo he felt I looked too much like his mother to continue. Made me ROFLMAO. The other I'd set a date to meet with. He called the the day before to say he'd gotten in an accident. He'd run into a fire hydrant at 3 pm and wasn't quite sure how that happened, thought perhaps he'd fallen asleep at the wheel. VERY scary. His emails had started to get...disorganized...odd...weird, so all's well that ends well.

Hi Nams,

I appreciate your concern, really...



...yes...I agree with you...a relationship with WS is very toxic and harmful...which is why I am in PLAN B...to protect myself from the selfish behaviour....



No...I don't love WS...nor the choices he is making right now, which I believe involve a lot of denial and don't take into account ALL of the consequences....and I would really really like to see what his position is....were he NOT involved with OW... and NOT in lalaland.... if his choices remain the same...then the M is over....and I am ready to really move on....



I have given him a PBL....at this point he is not open to meeting the conditions.....BECAUSE he is involved with OW and in lalaland.... and ALL his decisions are coloured by it.... I would like to know....if this remains the case when some of the fog has lifted....if he chooses the D...and if so....I am done....that's what I am waiting for...although I don't know at this point HOW long I am prepared to wait....and I guess part of it depends by how much Lovebusting WS does inspite of the fact that I am in PLAN B.....

....I don't want at this point to get involved with anyone else.... so I have time...I do not need to RUSH into anything...

Thanks for the update and good luck with your studies and work...






uhmmm..sounds a bit contradictory....but I guess if the 'right one' comes along....you will find a way to 'manage'.....LOL!

I'm very happy that I waited so long to divorce. I have complete peace of mind, no regrets, no looking back and wishing I'd done it differently.

I got to the point where I was done, and felt fine about unloading him.

Hi B,

....that's one of the reasons I am 'hanging on' as long as I can.... NOT to have regrets....and to be able to look at myself in the mirror and say...that I held out as long as I could and gave it my best shot at trying to save the 'intact family' that I wish my boys, S and I could have..... because right now....inspite of everything WS has done... he has not convinced me that what he GOT is really what he WANTED....

- he is choosing not to LIVE with his 'soulmate' (even though he has the gull to ask for my consent for OW to live above him!)
- has continually wanted to do friendly co-parenting with me and shows definite signs that he misses family, inspite of what he says and does
- has crying bouts
- is NOT happy, by any means
- has not taken ANY legal proceedings to end M

....and I am sure...inspite of the fact that WS and OW are trying to AVOID reality by NOT living together....the best they can do is....delay it.... and I am curious to see how the A will weather out being hit by....reality!

...and how will I weather out PLAN B.....

...a bunch of unknowns that I want to leave open for now...and focus on what I can do today.....

Well...major turn of events with ME.

With WS's last proposition...he seems to have hit a limit of mine.

This is what I am ready to write to him, and I won't send it right away, because I would like your feedback....and I would like to sit on it for awhile....to see if tomorrow and after tomorrow I still feel the same way....

WS,

«With your last proposition to me, it is clear that you are not interested, neither now nor in the near future, in offering our boys a 'family' and a home at my side, that is, one where their two parents are loving to each other, and are working together to guide them and support them....

I had hoped that you would re-consider and rejoin me in offering our boys a 'family' and a home, but seeing that it is not the case....and seeing that I do find it challenging doing my side of the 'parenting' under the present conditions...

I think it is time that we take the 'legal route'.... because I will not stay married to you under the current circumstances....

...and so that we can do what we wish with our lives without any interferences from each other....and do our best in parenting our 'boys' separately.... I love you very much and I will always love you, and I had hoped to share my life with you, the father of our boys...but if that is not possible....I would hope that in the future I will find someone else that I can love and be loved in return, and that will be interested in supporting and joining me in my role as parent to our two boys.....»

...This is not a threat....I am not trying to playing games... I have reached the point where I accept to move forward....WITHOUT the father of my boys besides me.

If you are ready to move on (which I don't blame you if you do), I wouldn't break plan B to give him the courtesy of this news. I would just have him get served by surprise, so you are in the best possible position legally to get everything you want. Staying in plan B will also shelter yourself from the cruelness that he will probably unleash upon you.

Agreed - He has not earned the courtesy of a "warning" - the papers being served upon his sorry head should be warning enough.

Thanks for the feedback Jim and KA,

It's a first draft... I have read it over...and already there are a few changes I would like to make...

and yes...I have to decide whether or not I actually break PLAN B to warn him... or NOT....

I would also like to review my reasons for wanting to go the legal route NOW and why not before...

The proposition that he move OW in the apt above him seems to have hit a 'cord'....but it still shows me a man who is not willing to commit to a relationship, any really.... either to me or the OW.... because if not I would think they would have moved in together a long time ago.

....his continual attempts to want me to get to do friendly co-parenting and wanting to move OW only 'closer' to him but not with him, for convenience.....tells me that he is still fence-sitting.... wanting the advantages but not the responsibilities of a relationship

....the way I see it...his last proposal and my objection to it....will help them again 'unite' them against a common cause....me, the WIFE.... the common enemy....making it another obstacle to overcome and prove their love for each other....and I see that actually contributing to and allowing them to stay in lalaland a little longer....

...OTOH....this may cause some Lbusting in lalaland....

...but I also see that any future M Recovery would be made much harder by the added 'resentment' that WS would have built towards me over this....or only because it didn't work out with OW....oh well....let's give it a shot again with Lunamare....and feel like I am the default option...

...it was always clear to me that I wanted to be in a committed relationship and stay in it OUT OF CHOICE...not by obligation....not by default...

...and I still do want to be in a relationship...as I said in the note to WS...I would very much like that it be him....but if he's not interested....I would like to NO LONGER be married to him....and so be open to consider a future relationship with someone else....

I have certainly proven to myself that I can manage alone.... as I have in the worst of circumstances.... so that any future relationship would clearly be made out of a 'choice' to want to share my life with someone.... and clearly have less doubts about my being dependent on the R as I was in my marriage.... which I can safely now say that it was not so.....

....so...is my decision based on what I really want... or is it based on some 'fears'....

- resentment of WS
- loneliness
- a possible M recovery by default rather than by choice

I am so glad I have you guys to 'mull' this over with....

...again...I am in no rush....

...trying the hat on to see how it fits....

I just have what I think is a simple question, but some will think it harsh. If you can’t handle tough questions, don’t read anything further.

My question is this: if you've been in Plan B for more than two years, why are you worrying about relationship issues with your WH? Why aren't you going to Plan D and letting the chips fall where they may? Lady, it seems to me you need to get off the fence you are straddling and not worry about the one your husband is astride. A little more legal action and less worrying about where WH and OW live and what their motivations are would seem to be in order here.

Longhorn...thanks for the warning..LOL!

...but remember..I AM the one asking for input...LOL!

It's OK....I am not that fragile...really... remember... inspite of it all...I have managed to survive D-DAY....and your question is a very good one.... and thanks for reminding me of WHERE the focus should be!

...the only reason I am considering where WS might be at...is to evaluate if and when I WANT to move past PLAN B to PLAN D..... however....if he's fence-sitting.... and I am fence-sitting.... nothing will happen..... and that's where I may WANT to make a move....to PLAN D.....

...I may just be at that point....

...I am just not sure how to evaluate if my moving to PLAN D is what I want....or if I am 'reacting' to WS's proposal and/or fence-sitting.... which by the mere fact that he's a WS.... should not surprise me....

....bottom line...I would have liked to see S make a choice....as WS is all over the place...but then again....S may never show up....how long AM I willing to wait for S?

...my moving to Plan D means my being ready to let go of the potential of M recovery....the potential of offering an 'intact' family to my boys.... and accepting that these 'will never be'.....

...but then again....nothing can ever be THAT 'permanent' I guess... seeing that we really don't know what's in the future.... I should not approach moving to PLAN D as it being a 'permanent' condition....if the right circumstances were to be created....M recovery is always possible... only with D, to me, it means it becomes a lot LESS likely.....

Edit:

Me thinks the issue may be....expectations... I was disappointed by WS's proposal... because, after 2 yrs, I was 'expecting' him to be moving AWAY from OW....not wanting to make arrangements to move her CLOSER to him....

....uhmmmmm......the message I should take away....is that WS is still a WS....and S is no where in sight....

What do I WANT to do about that?

Lady, here's my 2¢. More tough words, so beware.

After two plus years of being on his own, your WH’s behavioral patterns are well established and he’s not about to change a darn thing because he’s quite comfortable with the way things are going. In short, there’s almost NO chance he’s going to suddenly recommit to a marriage, which in his mind, is dead, and there’s almost NO chance of an “intact family.”

Your words show me you can’t seem to make a decision on whether to pull the trigger on Plan D or just go on living in this he11 of a limbo status. Put bluntly, you're pinging off the walls and creating even more stress for yourself AND your two boys right now. Let me say it plainly. You’re only extending the agony for yourself and your children by deferring action to some nebulous “someday.” I think, absent some massive shockwave hitting his comfortable little life, this is the way it’s going to be from now on out. Your WH simply has no reason to change.

If you want to think of Plan D as that big shock to him, try it. It may work. For sure, he’ll have to make a decision one way or the other and that decision will settle matters, won’t it? Personally, I’m betting he’ll fight the conditions of the divorce, but not the divorce itself. The thing is, lady, you need to make a decision so you and your children can get on with life. It’s been on hold for far too long already.