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Last June my husband walked out & hasn't been back since. He shocked me by saying that he wasn't happy & hasn't been for some time. He also told me that he wasn't in love w/ me anymore, tho he said he will always love me cuz I'm the mother of his children.

He states the reason for this to be becuz I would not move closer to the church he was pastoring at 2 yrs ago. It is 30min. away, but he felt we needed to move in order to bring the #s up in the youth group. After a couple of months I decided to submit to his decision. But a couple of months after that the church felt that major restructuring needed to be done & they pretty much gave him no choice but to leave. I apologized for not moving, as we both believe the #s would have been higher if we did & the church would have therefore been pleased w/ him & he would not have lost his dream job. He said back then that he forgave me.

But last June he told me that over the last 2 yrs, everytime I doubted a decision he made or didn't support him or submit to his leadership in the home, it reminded him painfully of the loss of his dream job. He realized that he had not truly forgiven me, but never said a word becuz he didn't have a solution to fix the problem. It was only when I pushed that something wasn't right w/ us, that he told me he was unhappy, didn't love me anymore, & couldn't "do this" anymore. I was shocked.

On July 7th he said he decided that divorce was the only option for us. I begged him not to do anything that he knew wasn't God's will. He agreed to go to counselling, which started off as weekly, but since Sept. is monthly.

I found out in Sept. that he has a "girlfriend". He finally brought her out into the open on Fri. Oct. 13th. They met in May thru a mutual friend, became close friends right away, & since Aug. have been sleeping together.

He recently told me that nothing has changed since July 7th. He still wants a divorce. He denied that it is becuz he wants to marry his girlfriend, saying that would be the stupidest thing he could do. He says the only thing he wants to take from his past are his girls.

After reading this entire website, I asked my husband what one thing would make him happy again in our marriage. He said, "A time machine to take us back to before I lost my dream job". He says the only thing that can save our marriage will be a miracle.

I have gained a wealth of knowledge from this website, but would like some advice on my specific situation. I try my best to avoid LB & try my best to meet his needs. Is there anything else I should/shouldn't be doing? I want to restore the love he had for me & keep our marriage together no matter the cost. Any specifics on how to win this battle I am fighting against my best friend?


M: 7 years BS (me): 38y WH: 29y Daughters: 3y & 5y WH moved out June '06 (time A started) D-Day: Sept.'06 Presently in Plan A (Since Nov'06)
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Yes. #1 Expose him to anyone and everyone. Pastors and Married people are NOT allowed to have girlfriends. Do not allow his girlfriend to be hidden. Expose to pastors, family friends. Then sit back and enjoy the show. He will be very angry.

Your marriage will survive his anger it will not survive an affair.

Meet EN's and avoid LB's.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
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Sammi,

It's very convenient that he's able to blameshift in this situation and make you responsible for his poor performance and poor choices. Please stop taking responsibility for those things. It's very easy for him to single you out as the cause for his dismissal from his dream job.....but my guess is that it's far more complicated than that. If his commitment and leadership in the church was anything like the commitment and leadership in the marriage.....is it really surprising that he wasn't successful? Confrontation about his choices is the first step. Give him the opportunity to do the right thing and end the affair.

Take a good long look at what happened. Is this really about you? Were you such an awful spouse that you're responsible for every bad thing that he's blaming you for? You don't sound weak or disloyal.....he does. If he was the kind of man strong enough to lead church....would he be involved in an affair? Would he have left his family? He's got you bamboozled into thinking his failure is your fault. You may have some responsibility for the state of your marriage....but you are not responsible for his failure to be faithful and successful. Have you talked to the folks in the church about whether the low numbers and the distance are the REAL reason your husband was let go? Considering his confusion.....maybe there's more to that story than meets the eye.

Who is his girlfriend? Is she married? Does she live at home? Exposure would begin with her spouse or her family. His job as a husband is to lead....where is he leading? He's leading into chaos, weakness and dysfunction. Doing a Plan A is not about being doormat....you have to be a LIGHTHOUSE and illuminate the path back to righteousness.

((((((((((((((((((sammi)))))))))))))))))))))

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Well said S*F.

Sammi5,

As a FWH, I was always at least basically happy in our M until another woman entered the picture. Then my attitude changed & nothing BS did was good enough. I left 2 weeks before Christmas last year & moved in the OW. After a few months, she started pressing me for a divorce.

I didn't have the courage to do even that myself, so I pushed my BS to file. I really never stopped loving BS, but I was captivated by the OW. She was everything BS was not, (including being incompatible). But I wanted it to work, so I hung on to the A.

I was so enamored with this "hussy" as my BS put it, I abandoned all common sense. I left not only my BS but my family, my church, our friends for "her". And this never did impress the OW either.

BW exposed our affair to my kids, her family, my family, a few coworkers, my friends, etc. I really had nobody else- well one friend stayed, and he admitted 2 affairs on his wife. But they got back together & made it work, & nobody would ever guess by looking at them now.

My BW even had my mom & sister shunning me. I have never felt that lonely in my entire life.

Now, I'm no saint, but I never portrayed myself as a man of the cloth either. A minister is generally seen as a role model & must be of exemplary conduct. A recent news story about indiscretions by a minister of a huge church reminds us of that.

Have you exposed the A to anyone?
How about his bishop, the other ministers, his family, your family, any friends you have, anyone who can put pressure on him. The OW’s family, friends, minister, etc.
Turn up the heat!!

He is, as we say on the boards, stuck in the "fog."
He is blaming you for everything wrong in your M.
DON'T BUY THIS DUNG!
I’m sure you’ve made mistakes, but NOTHING you have done EVER justifies what he has done to you.

Read Harley’s principles; get his books, & figure out what "plan A" & "Plan B" are. I also hope you are in IC- you're going to need it.

Fight back & protect yourself. Go speak to a lawyer & find out your rights, PLEASE.
If you continue to give him a chance (plan A) it's your decision, but you can't drag a mule anywhere he doesn't want to go. You might have to go to "Plan B", which means you go "dark" and have no unnecessary contact with him beyond legal, medical, or child welfare issues. D papers shook me up. I’m sure that any D lawyer would love to get a wayward minister case.

There is plenty on MB about the plan B alternative.
My BW wrote the most loving plan B letter to me (posted under my thread) and then she cut me off. She would be cordial (most of the time) but wouldn't chat. She would ask what I needed -all business. She did this to protect herself from me!! I was continuing to hurt her & she had to stop me for her own sanity. [She stopped allowing me to use her as a doormat].

Eventually (& I'm stubborn than most) I started to miss her and all that I loved in her, which was not present in the OW. The wheels finally fell off the A, and suddenly, I saw how foolish I had been to ever leave. I am so blessed that BS (cgw) would even give me one more chance. If you want her perspective, she would be happy to respond to your questions.

I will also pray for you and your M.


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I CANT STAND PEOPLE WHO CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIANS AND PULL THIS CRAP.

Sorry, I just had to vent.

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Sammi5:

S*F and PH have some good advice.

Your husband lost his "Dream" job because he is a lousy pastor. He didn't do what he was supposed to do. You can live 30 minutes away or 300. Doesn't matter. Performance is what counts. And if the church asked him to leave, after 6-8 months, then he just isn't that good.

That is a huge kick in the chops for him, but not your fault. His actions since indicate how common he really is.

You may be able to save this M.

You should do a plan A.

But the Plan A should be for you. Not for him. He may never be able to be the H that you and your children deserve.

That is harsh. But a loser is a loser, is a loser.

Sometime in the future, you will be making a choice. That choice is to continue in this M or not. Right now, you need to commit 110%. He may never reciprocate. Then you will know.

And I speak from experience. I lost my "dream" job. I fought back from that and created a new me. It took 17 years, and my BS worked with me. Are you ready for this fight?

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Thank you all for your great advice. I will answer some of your comments/questions below.

The A is out in the open & has been for a couple of months. Everyone knows & it has done nothing. H feels justified in continuing in it becuz he believes it is only a matter of time before he files for D. He has made his decision very clear. Exposure has not worked at all for my M. Is there still hope in ending the A?

As for the OW. She is a single college student, tho in a relationship herself when they got together. Her parents were against her & H initially, but had him over for Thanksgiving weekend in October, showing their support. Hence, there is no pressure anywhere for their A to end. His parents have stated that they will not meet OW until they know that me & the girls are okay. They had turned up the heat/pressure on him, but since have decided to only show unconditional love. So much for exposure in my case. Hope this isn't a bad sign?

I have give my H the opportunity to do the right thing & break up w/ OW. He laughed at the question of ending it w/ her. He has never told me how he feels for her, but when I say he is in love w/ her, he doesn't deny it.

I have attempted to do Plan A....for myself & our M. Even tho he lives 20min. away, he still comes over every few days to do things for the girls/me.

In the past couple of weeks I have become secretive about who I am going out w/. Twice he had to come put our girls to be so I could go out w/ friends. He kept asking questions to find out who they were. It really bothers him that I don't tell him who I am seeing. Do you think that is becuz he cares or becuz he hates not being in control or something?

I want to continue this mysteriousness, as it is comforting to see him interested in me. Do you think it will cause him to question how he feels about me? Cause him to doubt his decision of D?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Is there anything else other than avoiding LB & meeting EN that I should/shouldn't be doing? I want to do whatever it takes to break them up & lead him home to us, but feel so helpless. Don't see that much is working as he says nothing has changed since he left us in June. Is there still hope? How do I bring back the love/remind him of the love we shared? Is it possible when he is in love w/ someone else? Thank you so much in advance for all your support here.

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Sammi--

What is the age difference between your husband and his college student OW? Assuming your husband went though college and then seminary it should be a few years?

You have daughters? How many and what ages?

It might be interesting to see if his little college girl has thought about the burden of child support payments. If your children are young enough, your husband would be making child support payments for quite some time (and possibly spousal support). If he's still a pastor and pastors still make squat in salary, it would put a crimp in their lifestyle. You might want to get some estimate of what you'd be entitled to and share that with her in some way and see if she goes screaming into the night.

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H feels justified in continuing in it becuz he believes it is only a matter of time before he files for D.




You need to let him know that you will ensure the D is not easy or cheap.

What is he doing for work now? Still a pastor?

If he's still a pastor, what church would want him? No "Christian" congregation would want such a man in the pulpit! If he's not currently a pastor, what is he doing?

Did he have any mentors? Older men that were important to him (Seminary professor, etc) to whom he'd listen? They could be strong allies for you.

Be strong, especially for your children.

Blessings



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Thanx 4 your quick reply. I'll answer your questions/comments below:

My H is 29 & the OW is 22. But my H has no issues w/ age, as I am 9y older than he. Our daughters are 3 & 5, just turned that in October.

This OW is broke as well as he, so he says. I did find a bank statement in his car that shows she has $18,000 in her account as of last Sept., but I can't tell him or else he'll know I was snooping & be pissed. So, everytime he asks for $, I tell him to ask her cuz she has $. He says she is a student & has to live off her student loan & put herself thru school....oh woe is her.

As for her thoughts/feelings about child support, well, I don't think it bothers her. He has been broke since they've been together. And she is going to school to be a scientist, so I guess she thinks in time they will have $. But she doesn't know my H & how he loves to spend, spend, spend. NEhow, I don't think she will ever leave him, especially not becuz of finances. Therefore, telling her about how much he will have to pay me won't do a thing. Not to mention that since last month, he has started paying me support, of his own free will. He is an incredible "catch", by the world's standards. Has SO much to offer. And the way he shows love when he is in love is absolutely breathtaking. Her leaving him would take a miracle. But I do believe in miracles, so will continue to pray for one.

Once the church "pushed" him out of his dream job, my H lost heart to continue in youth ministry. I feel his pain & can see how he got so depressed & unhappy w/ God/life. He believed he was called there & then God allowed them to let him go. He is very angry w/ God & hurting. Hopefully he will come back to the Lord & then to us. He has been doing odd jobs here & there. He is now in the process of flipping houses. He got his 1st mortgage & is planning of fixing up the house & selling it by the end of January.

As for our conversations about D. I have let him know more than once that I will not allow D w/out a fight. It is against God's will & is detrimental to our girls & will not allow it for as long as I can fight it.

Amazing timing you have in asking about a mentor in his life! We are actually meeting this morning w/ our former youth pastor & the man who married us. He was my H mentor as he went thru Bible College & had his 1st job under this man. He has a tremendous impact on my H. He has been calling him weekly since Aug, but my H has been avoiding his calls. I had wanted to go to him originally for MC, but my H wouldn't hear of it. I think he knows how this man will affect him. NEhow, I called our pastor & asked if he would do IC w/ me. He said he would, but would prefer it if my H would come once so he could hear all the goings on from the "horses mouth", so to speak. I told my H this last week & made it clear to him that our pastor wouldn't refuse meeting w/ me if my H didn't come, but he'd prefer he came once. My H actually agreed!! That in itself is a miracle!

Please pray for our meeting this morning. Our counselling is okay, but more like going thru the motions. This will have a huge impact on my H if only he lets his guard down enough to hear our pastor. The fact he married us & was there when my H began ministry & these our the 2 areas my H is struggling w/....well, this could be a definite turn around point.

Will keep you posted later today to let you know how it
went. Pray for our miracle. Please.

Thank you SO much!
Blessings!

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Quote:

So, everytime he asks for $, I tell him to ask her cuz she has $.




I agree. Money you have is for your family. He has chosen to not be a part of that. He can ask his honey for $$ and after a while, that will probably get old.

Quote:

Hopefully he will come back to the Lord & then to us.




This is an important realization. His resentment has created a barrier not only between you and him, but between God and him. The restoration of that relationship will require him to make things right or at least get out of the current sinful lifestyle he has chosen.

Quote:

I have let him know more than once that I will not allow D w/out a fight.




Good for you. Stick to your guns. Not only because it's against God's will, but you need court ordered and legally enforceable support.

Quote:

Not to mention that since last month, he has started paying me support, of his own free will.




This sounds like a little bit of an attempt to satisfy his guilt. Thank him for it. Use it for your precious girls, but make sure he understands that it in no way substitutes for a family with a mother AND father. They need that more than his money.

I'm glad someone important to him will be part of your counseling. It's easy for him to dismiss the words of a stranger, but if this man is a mentor to him and has your husband's best in mind, he will give him the 2x4 across his noggin that he needs.

Praying for you (right now).



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Well, we met w/ our former pastor & he was blatantly honest w/ my H. Things have not changed as I had hoped they would. My H said that nothing he told him suprised him. But did say he would think on them anyways. I do believe that when the fog lifts tho, he will remember the good advice he was given & come to his senses.

I had mentioned before that my H shows much interest in me when I don't tell him details of who I'm seeing/visiting w/. This w/e I stretched the truth tho, & told him I was going to a friends birthday party. I am actually at work. He showed his usual interest which encouraged me, but now I am feeling guilty for lying. When he asks how the party went, should I tell him I got called into work or let him believe I was at her party? My motive for doing this is to "spark" some emotion in him towards me, even if only jealousy. I'm hoping that this will cause him to rethink his feelings for me. Or at least question why he may be feeling bothered that I am out "enjoying" myself w/ whomever. I want to "shake" him back to his senses & so far this is the only thing I have noticed that seems to do that, as this is when he actually shows he cares in more than a friendship way.

Any thoughts of what to do about this lie I told? Or how to continue spurring him on to question his feelings for me or make him begin to doubt his decision of being w/ OW?

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Sammi,
So sorry that you have to be here, but by now you realize that you are in good company. What comes to mind when I read your post is what a hypocrite your husband is. People experience struggles and trials and temptations--everyone does. It is in these valleys and low points that our faith is tested. As we emerge from the valleys we become stronger. We can use our experiences to influence the lives of others. Your H was guided by God to work with youth. Ok, so it didn't work out at the one church, but what's to say that God wasn't leading him on another path to help others. Your H has lost sight of God's calling and God's plan for his life. How sad. We all lose track of the path...wander off into the weeds for a bit...might even stumble a bit, but your H is pushing the extreme. How can he minister to children when he continues to live this life of sin and narcicism?

OK, now on to your situation....I don't know exactly what you are going through because I have not lived with a H who continued the A (A's in my H's case). Yes, he had 2 A's, but on D-Day that ended and there has been no contact since. But in your situation, I wouldn't tell him anything more than the basic facts....short, sweet, and to the point. You may choose not to disclose everything (such as the location of the party). I would just keep him wondering.

It is good that you are getting out and spending some time with friends. It's is good that you have a strong support system. Hopefully you are taking good care of yourself. And I will pray the prayer for you that I have prayed numerous times on our journey to recovery...Jesus, please help me through the chaos in my life.....please give me the strength to make it through this pain that I feel...please wrap your arms around me and ease my suffering....God reveal to me your plan so that I may move in the right direction....Sammie, know that you are not alone. Know that God will help you through this, and so will the wonderful people here that will give you advice and encouragement throughout your difficult situation. Know that you are an incredible gift from God and that you are not to blame for this. Take care of yourself and keep God as the focal point of your marriage and your life. I will keep you in my prayers.

SS


Me: 44
FWH: 51
Married: 15 years (second for both)
Children:
Mine: 25, 22, 21
His: 26, 20
D-Day: 3/13/06
Healing: Ongoing

May the grace of God comfort you and heal your pain.
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Does anyone know how long someone can stay in the "fog"?
My H has been there since end of June.

His A came into the open in September, but the exposure has seemingly done nothing to end it. Is this a bad sign? Does this mean they will make it? Is there anything else I can do to hurry it to its "demise"?

Please if anyone has any other advice on how I can win this battle tell me. My H says we are over. How long before I believe him?

Any advice would be very much welcomed. Thank you all so much.


M: 7 years BS (me): 38y WH: 29y Daughters: 3y & 5y WH moved out June '06 (time A started) D-Day: Sept.'06 Presently in Plan A (Since Nov'06)
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he's mad at God? What happened to faith? Yes, stay mysterious, don't lie about it and don't expect it to work either. You say this guy is great....WHAT?? Is an adulterer great? You cannot control other people. Your husband is making a huge mistake. He's in lust. This guy is not a "Christian," if he were, he'd stop. I'm so sick of people calling themselves Christians!! 30 min away from work, so what!!! Any idea why he's so interested in youth, when his OW is 7 years younger, 1/3 her own age? If there is no shame, guilt or repentence from him, I'll tell you this, from the time he's 100% guilty all of the time, you'll have 2 years until things resemble normalcy. You haven't even dealt with being back together yet. Like, wondering if she is/was better than you. What did they do? What did they say? Can you believe what he says to you? He said it to someone else. "Pastors" have requirements just like elders, he meets none of them. Good luck to him.

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I'm new here. prodigalhusband said in his reply that his wife wrote him a loving Plan B letter which is posted under his thread. How do you go under someone's thread to see something like that?


BS (Me) - 31 WH - 31 DS - 2 in January Found Out About Affair - 10/6/06 Married - 10/10/98 Been Together Since - 10/27/90 H won't have NC with OW
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"Christians" are like any other person -- they make mistakes.

I'm not in any way excusing what Sammi's husband did -- it was/is wrong on many different levels.

Quote:

This guy is not a "Christian," if he were, he'd stop.




Just being a Christian doesn't automatically mean you stop sinning. Many Christians, like athiests or those of other religions, are so immersed in a sinful lifestyle that they fail to realize how lost they are.

Christians, specifically, can so harden their hearts to God and the Holy Spirit that they don't know how far from Him they are. It's sad, but true.

Sammi's husband claiming he's a Christian does not make what he is doing to her and her daughters any better or worse. More "shocking"?? To me, yes. To some, no.

Quote:

"Pastors" have requirements just like elders,




Absolutely, but they apply to ALL Christians. The fact that he is a pastor will make him more accountable to God for his actions and possibly be the thing that is keeping him from returning to God -- the realization that he has betrayed his wife, his children and his God.

Blessings



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Sammi--

I feel for your frustration and pain. I don't know if there is a way to tell if they will "make it" except time. His OW should really pull her head out and see if he is willing to betray his wife and family, she's looking at a good chance he'll do it to her as well.

I don't know if there's a Guinness record for "fog time". I'm sure in some cases it becomes a permanent affliction.

I would suggest you post a question under General Questions II and summarize your situation. Ask the "experts" there if Plan B is in order. Your husband may be so lost in the fog that total darkness from you is necessary to get him out.

Can you survive without the money he's sending you? Can you go without any contact with him at all? There are specific things you need to do to prepare for a good Plan B -- I'm not the expert, so I can't give you solid advice.

Stay strong, Sammi. We're praying for you.




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