Dear Mrs Rob,

First of all, (((((((MrsRob)))))))

I think Bob is right on the money with what he said about some men just looking for an excuse.

My first H treated me very much the way your H is treating you. There was no A in that M, only was H was very jealous and mistrusting because his first wife had cheated on him.
Most importantly - he had some emotional "baggage" that had nothing to do with me, but he would take it out on me just the same.
Such men seem to use sex as stress relief, rather than making love.
And he'd get angry and/or give me the silent treatment over nothing - more stress relief I guess.

Don't be a punching bag for his (or anyone else's, for that matter) insecurities.
No-one "deserves" that.

((((Ms.Rob))))

Just loving you and saying that i respect you anyday.

Wish my WW was 1/2 of your character. Not in a desrespectful way, but just the humility to try make things right.

You are stronger for it. Hang in there.

With lots of luv.

P.S.

HELLO BROWNHAIR!!!!!!!

you were one of the first persons who replied to me after the intense betrayal i suffered. Still around and still here!!

thank you!

NC.

FO SHIZZLE MRS. RIZZLE!!!<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

MRS. WIZZLE <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hahahaha!! Mrs Wondering said Fo Shizzle!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> hahahaha

MrRob has been better- no fights, and when one threatens he stops it. But (and you knew there had to be a but, right?)

If he doesnt' get the SF HE wants WHEN he wants, he pouts and is kind of a jerk. For instance, last night I was EXHAUSTED for lots and lots of reasons he knows all about (getting up at 5:30, a draining meeting at my son's school, long day at work that turned into an even longer discussion with my boss....). He had even commented something about "no SF tonight, you're so exhausted!" Then when we were getting ready to go to bed around 10:45 (so I could get up at 5:30 again!) he said, "so, what's on the agenda?" I instantly wound up! I said, "Sleep! And you know how exhausted I am, I dont' have time for an hour and a half SF (cause, see, we can't do a quickie, that means I"m not repentant!)." He backed down, but he does this (IMHO) to indicate that I'm not trying. In fact, he has said that if I dont' do what he wants with SF that I'm not trying and I'm not repentant....then he goes into the "I'll just handle myself, I dont' really need you you're not reliable..."etc. He did not do that last night, and he did indicate that we would have SF tonight, which is when he usually goes into the, "no, we wont' have SF, I'll have already taken care of it..." so I guess that's good....but he could be lying, he's done that before just to avoid a fight...

But the long and short of it is that I feel used, I feel like he's being unreasonable and mean, and that if all he wants is SF then I really dont' want to be here in this marriage. he says that's not all he wants, but in the past he actually said that if I didn't do what he wants when he wants it he'd divorce me. He has since apologized profusly for that statement, said he was just trying to make me angry, but still, he said it.

And we have SF at LEAST 3-4 times a week when we're not fighting. So it's not like he gets it once a month or anything!

He even got mad at me the other day for not "going again" right after the first time!

I know it's TMI, but even waaaaaay before the EA this was an issue, and I'm really fed up. I don't know how to handle this issue, obviously!

What jumped out to me as a male is that he is testing you MrsR. I could have seen myself (pre plan A and bettering me) doing something like this.

me thinking to myself as a man:
"I know my wife has had a long day and she wants to go to sleep, but I'll ask about SF just to see how much she loves or wants me."

Now if she says not now then I can bitck to her about not loving me enough or what about my feelings and needs. I see now (plan A) that that kind of action only pushes a woman away.

You can't live being tested all the time and 3-4 times a week is pretty good. I don't think it could be the sex part. It seems like it is the "how much crap will MrsR go through to show remorse to me (MrR).

M2L

Mrs Rob.

I think your H has a broken sex drive. He is using a beautiful thing for ill reasons.

He seems to be "reclaiming" you, punishing you, keeping you in your "place" amongst his chattels and appliances while all the time physically dominating you.


That doesn't sound like lovemaking it sounds like a broken ego unleashed. When he called you "fp" it seem he was honestly declaring his new attitude. * sigh *

So what would you do if you weren't afraid ?

Maybe it's time to slap HIM off the fence. He likes having you around when it pleases him and he likes to holf things against you and he will give you some kindness sometimes.

MrsR, you made a mistake - BIG time, but you are here working on it and working to have a better M. Now your H has to help also and stop saying hurtfull things.

Maybe a 180 on your part?!?!? Anyone else with input??

M2L

bOb- what would I do if I weren't afraid? Don't ask that, it makes me think, and that cannot be good <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />. My knee jerk reaction would be to divorce him. But I still love him. Convoluted, isnt' it? It's hard not to have the "moral high ground." He has not said OM's name to me or told me to go call him or done anything like that in awhile- and I am less "freaked out" about things. And you're right about it not being lovemaking, it's ALL for him, NONE for me. And I was okay with that for awhile, but now, it's kinda like, geez, I don't even need him for THAT...I am not afraid financially to be alone, or to be a single parent....I guess what I would do is just lay it on the line with him and then let him leave, or ME leave (it's his house) if that is what he really decides. But I have told him to "fish or cut bait," and he always says he does not want a D becasue of the baby. But is that good enough for me? So far it has been...


M2L- I do feel like he's fence sitting!! Absolutely! This morning when I called him I asked him if he loved me, and he said he didn't know. WELL- we are 8 months away from the EA, with no contact and me trying- and he STILL doesnt' know? He says it all the time. In fact, when we hung up from that very phone call he said "see ya, love ya, mean it, bye" which is what he usually says. But he can be a jerk the day after no SF. He says his just being here still means he's trying. I say that just being a lump and demanding SF does not make trying! I don't know about a 180- maybe he really doesnt' care and it would just push us further away....

I don't know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

MrsR.

Now our situations are clearly different as you are the FWS and I was the BS but I can only tell you what helped in our situation ahwne my Squid was distant and uncommitted.

I applied a limited "180" program to my interaction with her.

She did not welcome loving touch or words, so I stopped them.

"ILY" became "I care for you". Carresses became platonic touches. I locked up my taker and stopped being so needy. No " do you love me?".

I also invested in MYSELF : got buff at the gym, new nice clothes, smelled great at all times. I withdrew from SF. Went out with friends.

All the time I was plan A'ing : meeting all the EN's I could without undignifying myself. After a few weeks Squid told mate later that she was ACHING for me to hold her and very nervous because she thought I was moving on. I told her that I loved her, but I did not need her, and I would not force her to treat me in a way I felt I deserved, but I would not, for the sake of my dignity, allow myself to be disrespected for very long.

I think that approach might work with your H - as long as you can overcome your fear.

What you think ?

bOb- MrRob says ILY all the time. Before I go to work, when we get off the phone, when we go to bed- ALL the time. In fact, the one time I didn't kiss him goodbye (I had kissed him after we say prayer like we always do, but just not right before I left)- he got upset with me. I certainly could do some taker-locking-up! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> And I can work on myself, something I need to do but am a little afraid of... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

So I'm not sure what part of the 180 I could do that would get my point across.

Last night I asked him if after 8 months since D-day, was he feeling any closer to forgiveness? He said "not today." When I said, "Well, if there is no change in feelings after 8 months, maybe that says something." He said, "If you had listened, I said not TODAY. It waxes and wanes. And now you should drop it." So I did drop it, which is a HUGE improvement, usually I keep going until it's 1000 times worse than when I started. Anyways, we ended up having a decent night, with SF, and significant cuddling afterward.

So I guess it all waxes and wanes, doesnt' it? And 8 months isn't long, I know.

I'm not sure how great Christmas will be, since he says I have ruined it at least for this year. But he's been pretty perky, even going as far as to buy a ladder to put up Christmas lights. It will be the first year in our house, instead of an apartment, so we get lights! And we got our Christmas tree up, but not decorated yet.

I keep wishing that I had never done this, but I really should focus on what I can do NOW, not what I should have done in the past. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Oh, and bOb, cute story about your Squid. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If you been reading my posts, you know my favorite saying:

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS...

At least, it's been consistently true for my H...

Dang it, I'm jealous about those Xmas lights..my H HATES Xmas and decorations... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Okay, so yesterday after BH went to the dentist (always crappy, and he found out he has to get a tooth pulled, so even worse)- he pushed me to talk about something I wanted to not talk about. So I DID talk, and then he said I went too far into the conversation! He also said that he only said ILY because he "should." When I ask him if he loves me he says, "who knows? Probably a little." He also says, "I don't know how this is ever going to work." Of course he has said that since loooong before my EA.

What this is teaching me is to not talk to him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />He says that he cant' trust me and if he cant' trust me then our marriage wont' work. he says that he has no idea what I did before the EA or now after. What I said is, "okay, so for almost 6 years I was just a really really good liar, then for 6 weeks I slipped up and you caught me, and now I'm back to being a really really good liar?" We've had this discussion before, then again last night. He can get into my personal email and even access my work email from home. He has my cell voicemail password. I'm being as transparant as I can possibly be!! He says, "I dont' know what you do at work or where you go for lunch."

I am so frustrated. Maybe I do just need to ignore him. I don't know anymore. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

What did you think about my thoughts that ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS?

I highly, highly recommend the book LOVE AND RESPECT for helping to understand HUSBANDS....

He has a low likelihood of resolving this in DISCUSSIONS with you...

Leave him be for awhile on the RELATIONSHIP TALK...

I would recommend your own form of PLAN A....

I most appreciated my H's ACTIONS in evidencing how sorry he is/was about his affair...

He couldn't DO MORE FOR ME...

BTW, I think you should feel OK about the SF..it is a extre special and crucial way to evidence your commitment to recovery.....

Mrs.Rob,

I've been following this thread for a while and just thought I might throw in something that worked for us. Maybe it doesnt even apply.

After the first few weeks or so after d-day we would meet at lunch or right after work, sometimes both, have a picnic lunch in the park, this was early fall as I recall. We would talk about all kinds of things but never about the A or our feelings of it. We just were together sharing a new life together.
We have continued this type of meeting since at various times just as renewal throughout the years since.

We just worked to keep the emotions of the A in check and worked on us in the now and in the future because what happend in the past cannot be changed. We also have always maintained a totally transparant M at all times ever since.

IMO your H needs to vent somewhere, get rid of the pent up anger!!!!!!!!! Go to the gym, whatever, just work it out!!!!!!! But NOT ON YOU!!!!! Then he needs to wakeup and start to work on the now and the future. He must realize what happend in the past cannot be changed and just dwelling on it will not allow him to move forward.

I know about the dwelling on the past first hand. Been there, Done that! But I never let it keep us from moving on to the future. I came to realize that what we had was far too precious to me to throw away because of the A. As my FWW calls it "The Mistake".


Hopefully I've said something from a little different perspective that may be helpful.

Keep goin, You will be great!!!!!!!!

BINGO...

EXACTLY, JUST!!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Mrs R,

How are you doing??? How is everything???

M2L

Hmmm, last night BH admitted he's using me for sex "right now," that he doesnt' want a divorce, he wants to be married, and when he "stops being angry" he'll stop using me for sex and we will be loving in that way again.

But how will I feel when he is done being angry? Right now I wish I could plan B him.

It's funny. We do lots of things together, have "date night," etc....

but this sex thing is eroding my love bank in a seriously bad way. No matter what I did, I do not deserve this. He would argue that he didnt' deserve what I did. So I guess to him, 2 wrongs make a right.

Sigh....aren't you glad you asked, M2L?

My response would be short and sweet - "Rob - use me for sex one more time - touch me EVER in anger during an act where only love should be and we can call it quits right then and there."

Mrs. Rob - I know your heart is tender and I'm loath to deliver a 2x4; the only way you are going to find mercy is to have it on yourself first!! What you are allowing to be done to you is beyond destructive - so loath or not, the 2x4 follows. Read it and know the love and care in my heart for you as I type this!


Mrs. Rob - I'm married to a man who admits he's a sex addict. He's been attending recovery meetings with the 12 step program for over 12 years. The first two years were h*ll - and until I got my Anon issues and program in gear, there was a lot of anger in sex. Once I learned that I really am a daughter of a Heavenly Father who loves me... then I could no longer tolerate intimate rape like that. See - using someone for sex is rape. It is not love. And you know what? He doesn't touch me in anger anymore. He doesn't speak to me in anger anymore. He doesn't touch me out of that vile sort of lust where he's not really there - that kind that just uses me and then demands more of me without giving. He honors me and treats me tenderly; not just in public, but privately too.

I believe this intimate rape is much harder to recover from than stranger rape - because it is a betrayal of the most sacred of covenants. Rob is in grave danger for his soul if you allow him to continue this abuse. YOU are responsible because you allow it to continue out of your guilt - as if allowing him to harm you will somehow absolve you of your guilt. It won't. It will deepen and darken it. STOP RIGHT NOW!!

There is a Star Trek Next Generation episode that graphically describes what this "robbing you of your self-esteem and self worth" behavior is really doing to you. Man of the People If you continue to allow him to abuse you, you will wind up a shriveled shell of yourself, unable and unwilling to love or be loved. If that is the fate you choose for yourself, by all means, continue to avoid conflict with him.

Otherwise, stand up, and refuse to entertain the lesser man any further.

I can tell you this - my mother cheated on my father. She had been abused by my father for 10 years before she strayed. Beaten down, she looked to another man for validation of her worth. He used her too, but not abusingly so - so she romanticized his memory - I think he was a dispicable user in many ways, but also broken. Definitely not the man she remembers... She continued to tolerate the physical abuse until 17 years after the beginning of the affair, and almost 10 years after OM died. Even then, she'd tolerate verbal abuse and deliver as good as she got - theirs was a marriage of habit by then - not of love. She refused to do the hard work necessary to have the love of her life.

Are you going to refuse to do the hard work too? Because I can describe your 50th and 60th wedding anniversaries for you if you'd like... I don't think you'll like it!

Ask him for his PLAN to stop him being angry.

Hope is not a plan.

Doing nothing is not a plan.

The anger of a BS doesn;t not "just subside" without REAL personal work. i know this well.

Ask your H to lay out his plan for reducing his anger. If he doesnlt have one ( which I doubt ) ask him if he will use you for sex and sadism for ever.

Yes I am angry at your H. He's so far up on his high horse I wonder he can breathe OK.

And you, Mrs Rob, tell me how its OK for you to be the "FP"of ANY man, husband included ? Just don't tell me its a consequence of your EA.....;)

all blessings

(((Mrs Rob)))

Please listen to KaylaAndy