I posted at work and was not able to get back on, but, Mortarman, you pretty much answered Marsh the way I would have. Again, if the Pastor hasn't the experience, I am sure he can get help. If it is a one way deal, which I doubt (out to dinner together? my wife would have my hide if I would do that with a suspicious person...), the Pastor needs to talk to the person who is the wayward one in that case. Maybe after OP talked to OM, he backed off, but how can you be sure???
BTW, OP, if it was not explained before, what is a "prayer mountain"?

e5,

I don't know what else to say that hasn't already been said here. No contact is critical. Limited contact does NOT do any good. Try to imagine if you were to decide that you were willing to give your wife up completely, but instead of leaving her, you kept living in the same house, going to the same church and remained in the same small group? That is what is going on with your W right now. She can't get over her attachment to OM until she is away from him, not just for a few hours, but for weeks. No contact means NO contact.

Try reminding the pastor that Paul took the church at Corinth to task for not dealing with sin within the congregation. Even if it is totally one sided (which I find difficult to believe, but may be possible), the pastor is responsible for his flock and more importantly it is His flock. Political correctness has no place in this. Either the OM must leave or your W must leave. The pastor needs to understand this.

If the entire church finds out what is going on, your W may be shunned and will be VERY(VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY)angry, but anger does not kill a marriage, a continuing affair will.

Print out some of Dr Harley's stuff from this site and take it to your pastor, or just point him here. The contact must come to an end for there to be any hope of recovery.

Do you understand what Plan A is? Have you read and understood the basic concepts? Have you read any of Dr Harley's books? Any books about adultery and recovering from it?

Please, start planning and acting instead of reacting to every hurtful thing your W does and says. The problem is not going to go away as long as your W sees the OM 3 or 4 times a week!

BTW, the first defense everyone will have for this is this; "It isn't an affair; it's only an emotional attachment." My question would be; "Then why is it being kept a secret and why is my wife refusing to work on saving our marriage?"

It is an emotional attachment, that does not make it a PROPER emotional attachment.

Mark

I also just though of this...

Assuming you do know what Plan A is, you can't keep it up forever waiting for the A to end, even if it is just an EA and only one sided. You are burning out quickly, my friend. Figure out how to be proactive instead of reactive or you will find out that your love for your W will die!

No contact: Make it happen!

Mark

Hi e55-
I've read your whole thread and you've been given some fantastic advice. Please listen to what every one is saying about NC. I know from my own experience that EA's-even one-sided, emotional attachments-are dangerous and can destroy a M.

Part of the reason for this is all A's are addictions-but an EA can often be rationalized- like your WW has rationalized her EA with the OM as "just close friends."

I won't go over the details of my story (partly 'cuz I have no idea how to make a link to it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) but my M has been devastated by a "one-sided EA" or "inappropriate emotional attachment" or whatever you want to call it.

In my case, when I realized my WH was in a full-blown one-sided EA and I revealed it to the attempted OW, she established NC right away and then SHE exposed my WH to his boss (our senior pastor) when he continued to try to contact her.

Even with her on board, the addiction to her was stronger than my WH's commitment to his family, his M AND his call to ministry. It cost him his integrity. It has cost me and my children much more.

So, please listen to what everyone has suggested and do whatever you can to save your M. You only have a short time to kill this A.

Tell her that she will not be able to have her small group over.

If she asks you why, tell her that you do not want to encourage her feelings for the OM.

If she fusses at you, which I suspect she will, just tell her that your mind is made up about this. She may not have her group over to your home.

Let her fuss and carry on all she wants to. I have no doubt she will. She has been successful at getting you to back down before. You must win this battle.

Stay strong.

Please keep posting, e5.

~ Marsh

e5...

Haven't heard from you today.

What's up?

How are things going?

Mark

I don't recall if I told you all that my wife is acting 'normal' now. During the worship on Sunday, she actually confess that everytime she has to prepare worship, she feel the sin within her. It was the first time which she publicly said that it was a sin. ( I know she is referring to the EA) She was acting with love to me these couples of days.

Don't recall if I posted these. That's why I have the struggle of whether I should let her small group use our house. I know she is still intouch with the OM in ministries but seeing the change in my wife. I know that this time she is geniune. And God wants me to let her use the house thru His words. It's hard for me too but I have to do it. I know that this is against all the NC advice you all are giving me but I gotta trust my Lord.

God is not telling you to let your wife use the house and let the OM in. I can guarantee that God is NOT telling you that!

Nowhere in Scripture will you find this allowance. But I can pull out a ton of Scripture that says you shouldnt allow the OM in your house...or your life. Or your wife's life!

E, you are making a huge mistake here. One you will regret. Instead of listening to God, you are listening to your fears.

Let's say your wife is acting better toward you. This happens all the time with WSs. They see a little light out of the fog. This is a good thing.

So, the addict has a good day or two and realizes that her "drug" is bad. And what is your response? To let the drug dealer come into your house. I mean, since she knows it is bad, having the drug dealer there wont matter. And I will be showing her how much I love her.

NONSENSE!!!

You are in what we call the "BS fog." You are so hurt, so scared...that you cant see that it is you that is helping her continue her addiction to the OM. Letting him into your house will only hurt...it can NEVER help.

Please, E. Many WSs pass on the lie that their affair partner was given to them by God. The only person that leads another to a married person is the Devil. God is not in that...ever!

And God is NOT in this decision to allow this person into your home, where your wife can feed her addiction. YOU are making this decision. Dont place this on God...He has nothing to do with it.

But, I suspect you arent gonna listen to us, nor Scripture...until things get worse. And it wont be your wife making it worse...it will be you! By allowing her to continue sinning (Yes, it will be you helping her sin by allowing her to lust after this man in your own home!). You wont be respecting her...you wont be protecting her. You wont be leading her.

You are taking the cowards way out! Yes, I am being rough on you, E. Because you should be leading your wife in the right direction. But instead, you vascilate and then let your wife sin...and even help her...all the while saying it is God's will.

This is NOT God's will. There is nowhere in Scripture (except maybe 1st Fleshalonians) that you will find this nonsense.

E, I am being hard on you because as a brother, I need to admonish you for what you are about to do. And that IS in Scripture. but even more so, I fear for your marriage because you still cant get it together.

And guess what? Yoru wife can sense that too. How can she follow a leader who refuses to lead?

But it sounds like you are gonna do what YOU want to do, and ignore all of the experts...and ignore Jesus. Good luck with that. Because doing it our way, instead of God's way...NEVER leads to where you want it to be.

I pray you wake up soon, E.


I wish you finally would.

Tell her to have the small group over, except for the OM. If she doesn't understand NC yet, then your work is cut out for you. I think I would rather invite everyone to my house and know where she is, than have her go somewhere else with OM there. I would try to get them all to come but have the pastor explain to OM why he shouldn't go. Or you can tell him if the Pastor won't.

I do think it better to leave that church if the church thinks it's fine for them to be in the same group even after knowing what almost happened, but in the short term, I would rather have her home where you can see her than who knows where.

If she won't have OM leave the group, then she needs to leave it.

Far better to leave the church, the town, and the state than to continue to play with fire.

It may be that she can handle fire and not get burned, but do you want to find out?

Does she?

Is it worth the risk?

Isn't it better to stay as far away from the fire as possible?

SS

PS,
I'm not saying you should let her bring OM, I am saying everyone else BUT HIM.

Go to whatever lengths you have to so that he does not come.

e5,

I like SS's advice.

Go to your pastor and tell him you're thinking of allowing this group to come to your home. Ask him if he's willing to tell the OM he's not invited. Or maybe you could tell OM that he's not invited.



Can you describe how she's acting?



How so? Can you give some details?



Which words, e5? What verse are you thinking of here?

e5,

Are you certain that the 'friendship' is over? Are you sure they haven't been talking to one another again?

I ask b/c whenever a WW gets happy when she is supposed to be going through w/drawals I get worried. Are you still snooping?

Can you give me more info/details so I can put that fear to rest?

So glad to see you back here, e5.

Please keep posting.

~ Marsh

As I have said they are still talking to each other but strictly related to ministries. I know what all of you are trying to tell me. But I am a stubborn person. I don't need people to affirm with me what I am doing but I will still listen.

In response to Marsh, my wife has been back on her BC pills and she started to wear the wedding ring again. She would call me in the morning and at times when she is stuck in traffic. She has not called me even since I exposed the EA. The fact that she is telling the church that she is SINNING is a big step for her whereas before she just said it was personal struggle. I also read her journal and there she knows that she has to let go of her feelings toward the OM or else God would leave her. She knows her thoughts were distorted. She felt that she has lost the power from God to lead. The only thing she needs to do is to patch things up with me. And that she doesn't want to hurt me anymore.

Marsh, what's your thought on this?

I think this is very encouraging!

What did you think of the idea of saying yes to your WW about having the group over your house, but telling the OM he's not invited?


~ Marsh

I am not going to tell my wife that. The group will come whether or not the OM is coming. Decision made!

Wait, I'm confused. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Are you saying you will tell your WW that she can have the group over, but not tell her you're going to uninvite OM?

* crosses fingers*

~ Marsh

e -

I've watched your thread but haven't posted to it lately. I know you feel you're on the right track, and nothing is going to sway you from it. I wanted to echo MM's words, and share some personal experience with you.

First, like you, I looked to God for guidance during my wife's affair. While second-guessing myself and the decisions I made would accomplish little, I can tell you that there are things I would have done differently.

The most important action you can take right now is to do everything in your power to help your wife enforce NC. Your wife says she knows she is sinning - that recognition is good. But what is she going to do about it?

My wife and I are also Christians. My wife knew what she did was wrong. She knew that her continued contact was wrong. She knew she was in sin. But that knowledge alone wasn't enough to make her stop, at least not right away.

I endured 7-8 months of continued contact (plus a second trip to see OM less than 2 months after D-Day). I did not put my boundaries in place, nor did I enforce the ones I had. I was willing to wait and be the good guy, continue to do my Plan A, and let my wife come to her senses.

Did she? I believe so. But I can tell you (and MM and others on here that have given me great advice and support can confirm) that I went through one ****** of a lot of emotional abuse.

Oh...I had boundaries. I made threats to follow through on consequences for the violation of my boundaries....but I never did.

What should have I done, in retrospect? I should have closed of all paths of contact that were within my ability to control. In my case, those paths would have been internet connectivity from home, and her cell phone.

Would have that have guaranteed NC? Not at all - but I wouldn't have been enabling her contact.

Afraid your wife will be mad at you? Threaten to leave? View you as controlling?

So there's the experience of a BS who has experienced some of what you're going through.

Want more? Here's what my FWW (Former wayward wife, not yet - IMO - recovered) asked me one night back in February.

She wanted to know if I was going to enforce my boundaries. She had not yet seen any consequences for her continued willful violation of my stated boundaries. At the time, hurt, scared, and lost, I feared that if I enforced my boundaries, she would leave.

Again, in hindsight, I think she was, in her own way, asking me to step up and be the man. Much like a kid...they'll howl and scream about punishment, but deep down inside it gives them a sense of security...they know that they are loved, and the actions being taken by the parents are for their ultimate good. I took the easy way out.

Right now, the enemy has operatives in your rear area. You need to eliminate the enemy with extreme prejudice. You must take extradorinary precautions to protect your marriage. Your wife made choices, and she must bear the consequences of those choices.

You have an excellent support group here on MB. But you need to listen, and more importantly, act on the advice they give you. View MM as your First Sergeant (apologies MM if I've got the roles/ranks wrong...I'm not that familiar with the Army's enlisted structure). He's going to be hard on you - but it's for your own good.

Appeasment never works. You can mask it however you want, but it will not work.

You are free to choose whatever path you want. You can continue to leave your wife and your marriage open to contact with OM. Your marriage may even survive. But how much emotional pain do you want to suffer?

Every BS has been where you are. We hope, pray and look in earnest for the tiniest glimmer of hope that the WS is coming around. And often times we jump on that hope, ready to raise the flag of victory. Only to find out later that the victory dinner was held way too early.

She's been loving towards you lately....but that can change in an instant. Here's another example for you.

Around 3 months post D-Day, and one month post-2nd trip, my wife came home from work. She was in quite the good mood, and we had SF, and went to sleep. The next morning she came in (having gotten up before me), asked me if I was awake enough to talk, and told me that OM had called her the day before and they had talked for about 20 minutes. How's that for a flip-flop? And I still took the "I'll give her time to establish NC" route.

Plain and simple, you've got to protect you, and you've got to protect your family. That means OM has to go. Now. No last goodbyes, no gradual withdrawal from shared ministries, no eventually. Now. This instant. Permanently. The risk (even if it was one-sided) to your family is simply to great.

None of my meanderings is meant to indicate that you don't help your wife. Yes, you need to be understanding. Yes, you need to be supportive. Yes, you need to be there for her, by her side. But you need to do all this in a firm, loving manner. Set up your boundaries, and enforce them.

The one thing you fear most, the one thing every BS fears most, is least likely to happen if you step up and be the leader. Time and again, the BS who has taken a firm line with the WS has wound up with a recovered marriage. Not every time, but a very high percentage.

On the other hand, if you continue to appease your wife out of some misplaced sense of nobility or love, you may very well lose her. In reality, you already have - but you have an excellent chance to win her back.

Please, consider the advice you've been given here. Listen to MM. Listen to Marsh - you have a FWW in your corner giving you valuable insight into your wife's line of thought, and telling you the best way to get trhough to her.

You need a plan. This board, and the people on this board, will help you develop one, and help you stay the course. Your WW appears to be getting some clear patches in the fog. Now is the time to strike - man up and get to it.

I have a strange feeling that is NOT the way he means it. The way I read it, if the OM is coming, he will be welcome....Just out of curiosity, I will bounce this one of my Pastor on Saturday...

I think you're right.

Yes, see what your pastor says...

~ Marsh

HealingBird,

You got it right. I was a First Sergeant. And yes, I have been trying to get thru to this young man...in order to get him to see what God wants for him and his wife.


But instead...he is going to choose to do it his way...instead of His way.

Marshmallow has been working very diligently with E, trying to walk him thru this and to see what he SHOULD do. The reason I am so hard on E right now is that I have sensed that he isnt interested right now on what works, he isnt interested in what God wants here...instead, he is interested in doing this his way and trying to find ratification here or in Scripture.

Of course, he wont get that in either place.

E, we do want you to stay. And normally, I am not this hard on people. But I see you making a monumental error here, all in the false notion that you are following God. And of course, you are not. God never contradicts Himself...and He has spoken on this issue.

So, decision made! I am now just praying that the damage done isnt too bad that will make fixing it later impossible.

e5,

I may be completely off base here, but is English your first language?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that that might be why we're having a little trouble communicating.

~ Marsh

I think the communication is clear but I think at this point I prefer to set this issue aside. Thanks everyone for your comments. I will try to keep posting.