I've been dating for about a year, and this man is wonderful: kind, caring, generous. My only issue is being bothered by movies he sees once a week with a friend. I worry about the male tendency to look at women and get turned on...we're talking pg-13, a few R, not "adult" movies.

I know that there are trust issues, and things are better. We've already established the "don't stare at other women" thing, and he's more careful not to do that. I just want his sexual interest to be for me, not wasted on images or strangers walking by. He has been a "looker" in the past, and sometimes still is (though I think it's unintentional?).

So, how do we do the POJA in this case? The movies bother me, and I wish he'd do something else with his friend each week...he doesn't pick the movies, he lets the friend do that and they are normal movies, like I said. They don't go out of their way to see titillating ones, but he's never refused to see anything his friend picks.

He says he'll quit doing movies since it bothers me.

My question is: I know it bothers him that I am asking this of him, but he's willing to give it up. But that's not really the POJA. We should both be enthusiastic about the decision, not just me. I don't want to gain at his expense and kill our love over time.

How do we do that?

If I lose love units when he goes to the movies, but he could lose love units if he doesn't go, then what's the answer?

You asked the question as to what the answer is.... I will give you my opinion based on your post...
lighten up... maybe see a counselor regarding the insecurity thing. Unless there is more to the story, I would say that you need to resolve this problem for you... since it is you, in my opinion , that has the problem.
Now, if there is more than what you have relayed here, my opinion could change... but based solely on this post... I would say that you have some security issues that need to be addressed.

I am curious... what has brought you to an infidelity website?

. . .

Yeah, there are definitely some insecure feelings on your part. It's pretty much a given: Men look at women. It's a biological response. Just because a man sees a woman he thinks is attractive does NOT mean he is going to shag her behind your back. There is nothing you can do about "the male tendency to look at woman and get turned on." It happens, and it will continue to happen until the day he dies. That's part of being a man, and you cannot remove that unless you castrate or blind him.

You say "I just want his sexual interest to be for me, not wasted on images or strangers walking by" and honestly, that comment is the strangest thing I think I have ever heard. How is his 'sexual interest' 'wasted' in such a way? I'm not sure I understand what you're worrying about here.

I've read several Harley books on improving relationships, and have read the MB site to get more information.

I originally posted on "solving conflict" but know from lurking that more people respond and read General Questions.

Yes, I suppose I am insecure, but am I supposed to be unruffled by his staring at attractive women, whether or not I'm secure?

The POJA doesn't really address insecurity. Doesn't the POJA still apply, even when one person has insecurities or fears?

You said he wasn't acting inappropriately with other women... and in fact you said he was careful not to do that....
and you are even having a problem with the movies... not porn movies... but pg-13 movies! How do you even begin to defend that position. Next, he won't be able to look at the Sear's catalog because there are women models in there.... I mean honestly, you sound as though you are a smothering person.
As far as your question about the POJA... lets put your thoughts to a simple test... if your man had an insecurity about you working outside the home... is it reasonable to expect that you won't work... or that HE address his insecurity and not try to USE some concept to justify restrictive demands.

If you are secure in your relationship with him and you are secure in your trust that he would not betray you, then when he looks at another woman, it shouldn't bother you. No matter how attractive he may think that woman is, if he is devoted to you, it won't matter. No woman in the world will be more attractive to him than the woman he is in love with and the woman he is happy with.

Ah, but there is the kicker. Happiness.

I'm not saying you should give up your own sanity to make him happy. That's not how the POJA works. The POJA is all about finding a common ground; something you can both agree on. And it does still apply. Perhaps he would be happily willing to sacrifice a little bit if you would be willing to do the same. Perhaps if you offer to seek counseling for your insecurities, he would feel more comfortable with giving up his movie nights.

Relationships are about Giving and Taking... there should always be a good balance between the two.

Um, theRogueX, are you by chance, a man?

Have you read Harley's article about pornography? It's pretty good, and he says that "a woman's desire for her husband's exclusive sexual interest is reasonable and appropriate." That's where I got the idea.

And just because "every man" does it....is that supposed to make me feel better? Does that make it acceptable to me? No.

Just because something happens widely, doesn't make it o.k.

But the original question is: how do we take both of our feelings into account?

Every man does not do it... I am a man that doesn't and never has... but your man is NOT doing it! YOU are the one acting unreasonably.

If he had an insecurity about my not working outside the home, I wouldn't do it. It's not worth upsetting him for something I care little about.

If he is bothered by something (regardless of the reason why) I think that my love should respond to his feelings and not do that particular thing.

There are plenty of things we CAN do which don't bother either one of us...why do things that upset one of us?

And you called them "restrictive demands." I have not demanded anything. I've simply told him my feelings, and asked him to help us come up with a solution.

"Every man does not do it... I am a man that doesn't and never has... but your man is NOT doing it! YOU are the one acting unreasonably. "

rogueX said that this is part of being a man. That is what I was responding to.

Your response to the work question is childish and only would enable wrong thinking. So, if he were bothered by your having friends.... seeing your family.... going to restaurants....talking on the phone.... going to the doctor... etc... your logic would hold true huh? Not a chance. You honestly need to seek some professional help. I am sorry you feel so insecure.


so, goodbye... you should seek some help and frankly there are people here with real issues and problems that need guidance. Obviously your mind is made up that you are being rational so I will wish you well in your life and end my participation in this thread here.

Is there anyone else out there?

"frankly there are people here with real issues and problems"

Maybe this isn't a real problem to you, but it is to me, or I wouldn't have gone from lurking to posting.

Does everyone think it is "childish" to refrain from doing things that bother a loved-one? What about the POJA? Am I just misinterpreting it?

I agree Puzzled that this is an issue you should seek some help on, but it is not wrong to question it here. It is not an insignificant problem because these are the ways that start a marriage to the path of destruction... and I don't mean necessarily the movies, but the attitudes, the communication or lack of, the idea that you need to sacrifice and probably resent... these are all huge deals that will destroy your marriage in the future.

It is great that you are asking the questions now. Get help to building a strong relationship and individual strength. Hopefully your problems and questions won't be judged so harshly in the future.

It is difficult for someone dealing with a problem like an A to hear about someone having an issue with PG-13 movies... but as I said, it is better for you to question and get it fixed now... not when you are having to deal with an A in your relationship.

Good luck.

Shaden

Puzzled,

Dr. Harley says that applying POJA it's easier to get over an action not done than to get over the resentment for something the partern did without our agreement.

It would be interesting if you sent a mail to their radio program to see what he says about it.

I think it's veyr healthy that you two can talk about those topics.

The problem I see with 'hot' movies is that it could scalate. There are 'hot' movies that are considered art pieces and others almost porn.

I also belive that men who intent to be monogamus should take all precausions to avoid temptations. Thoughts that could became in longings.

How old are you and your BF?

I am not an expert on POJA... but I think you need to dig deeper into this question. You need to ask yourself what do you want in life and what are you willing to give up for your loved one. Decide what is important for you... the boundaries you will accept... and then see how you can POJA. If you just sacrifice ("give up") something, then this is not necessarily right either. That's where the communication then comes into play.

Shaden

What I understand of Dr. Harley position is that each couple is unique. He's very clear in recomending each partner to take a very flexible attitude towards the needs and desires of the the other as well as to the things that make the other feel uncomfortable.

He recently published a new book for newlyweds and couples close to get married:
I Promise You

I think the range of compromise you can get with your BF also has to do with how serious is your relationship and how close both of you are to getting married.

I am, in fact, a man. And I am a man who could look at attractive women all day and not feel the desire to stray even once. If I'm in love and happy, I have no reason to go after other women. Still, I enjoy looking at an attractive woman, just as I enjoy looking at a beautiful piece of art, or as I enjoy gazing into the beautiful night sky. I have the right to look at whatever I want to look at, and if the woman I am with is so insecure that she can't stand the thought of me looking at another woman, I am going to move on. IMHO, trying to control what he can and can't look at is WAY over the line. Oh, and one last thing: Just because a man looks and enjoys looking at attractive women does NOT mean he is sexually interested in them.

Also, you talk about Harley's view on porn (which I disagree wholeheartedly on, but again, that's MHO), but yet he doesn't watch porn. By your own post, you say he watches PG-13 and R rated movies. So, when did we start talking about pornography?

Ultimately, you need to learn to accept what you cannot control. Men look at women. They are not necessarily sexually interested in the women that they look at. You take offense at something that is not meant to be offensive. This is a problem that FAR TOO MANY PEOPLE IN OUR WORLD HAVE. People need to stop taking offense at everything and start just getting on with their lives. It'd be a much better world to live in.

Puzzled,
I was impressed by your insightful response on another question, which is why I looked at your post.

I think you are on the right path. There are two fundamental ways to go in resolving conflict:

1) Accept the feelings of both persons and figure out what behaviors will be positive for both and only act in that way.

2) Make judgments about the feelings of the other and make decisions based on those judgments.

Frankly, I've been in a marriage in which my husband has made plenty of judgments about my feelings. "Childish" would be a mild judgment. I've gotten judgements like "psychotic".

Well, I accepted those judgements and blamed myself -- until the affair was exposed.

Now I am trying to practice the POJA in a way that works for both of us. It's a shock for my husband.

Please don't go down the path of trying to figure out whether or not your feelings are reasonable. Accept them as they are. Then tell your boyfriend. It is not essential to his happiness that he see these types of films with his friend. The fact that he is willing to give them up is terrific. Then you two can discuss what other sorts of activities he could substitute.

Harley says that there is a period of time between the time when the activity that is good for one is given up and the time when an activity that is good for both is found. You are in that period of time. When the new activity is found, then resentment about giving up the old activity fades away and the person enjoys the new activity.

That is how compatibility is established.

Respectful

PS. You cannot control the choices of your boyfriend. You aren't telling him what to do or what not to do. You are simply telling him your feelings. It is up to him to respond.

PPS. This isn't a small issue. What you are addressing is how to resolve conflicts. I've listened to Harley's program a lot, and I remember his saying once that the single most important thing to establish before marriage is how to resolve conflict.

larousse, welcome to MB. I, for one, am deeply offended that somebody would immediately slap you with the "you're just insecure" label because your boyfriend is looking at other women. I've been hit with that one many times from my husband, including the "gee, if you were a REAL WOMAN who WASN'T SO WEAK AND INSECURE you wouldn't mind that I take OTHER women out to lunch and leave YOU sitting home alone."

I had a boyfriend back in college who would watch some hot chick walk down the street and then nudge me and say, "Why don't YOU look like that?" Then he would sneer at me for being "insecure" when I did not like this.

Accusing a woman of being "insecure" is a wretched ploy aimed at guilting her into going along with rude and disrespectful behaviour on the part of her boyfriend or husband.

Can you elaborate more on exactly why the movies bother you?
Mulan