Does your WS ever complain that you (the BS) aren't “moving forward” or “making progress”?

Mine frequently complains about this every time I bring up an issue that is painful to discuss or emotionally charged.

She wonders out loud if “too much damage has been done” and if I’ll ever get better. I’ve recently started agreeing with her that there has been a tremendous amount of damage, but I don’t believe it is “too much” or “unrecoverable”. She’s not so sure, but sure is trying to put all this behind us. She’s trying her best, I believe, but maybe not in the right direction. She simply refuses to look at any problems in herself that might have contributed to her decisions to have her affairs and instead points to the problems in our marriage.

I’ve been trying to explain to her that she is measuring my healing/progress in miles and I’m measuring it in feet (inches on some days). In other words, she isn’t seeing the small, little progress I am making most days for a couple of reasons:

1. It’s small and steady. Being able to sleep through the night without waking up from a bad dream about her affairs.

2. It’s not something I can share with her without her getting angry that I’m bringing up her affairs again. I can’t come home and say, “Hey, honey, good news – I didn’t get angry when I drove by the hotel where you screwed the OM!” Obviously I wouldn’t word it that way, but any mention of progress I can see is taken as if I’m rubbing her nose in it again.

These are very real incidents. When I try and tell her there is progress and I am healing she shakes her head and says, “I don’t know”.

Part of me wants to call her on it and say, “If you think there’s been too much damage then it’s clear you won’t ever be able to get over it. I will. I know it will take time.”

How do you get your spouse to see that, while maybe not as fast as they’d like, you are healing?

Thanks for the vent and question.

Tell her that things that used to trigger your pain, don't anymore.

~ Marsh

Artor

I have said before that I think you walk on eggshells far too much with your FWW.

It is entirely unreasonable for her to expect to almost destroy you with her affair choices then to not have to handle any consequences of them.

If she had shot you multiple times, almost to your death do you think she would be so dismissive of your recovery ? Why then is she so dismissive of the devasting emotional hurt she has visited upon you ?

I believe that almost all WS have a streak of entitlement within them which caused them to choose an affair to handle issues in their lives, and ALSO presses them to stuff and dismiss any unpleasant consequences of their affair.

In my personal experience the success of a recovered marriage comes in no small part from the WS finding their "F" by placing the BS recovery needs well ahead of their convenience or comfort. It took a LONG time for Squid to start doing that.

Prhaps pre- A you were like me, and thought sacrifice was a "noble" part of being a husband and father ? Squid just came to feel entitled to my sacrifice and it was a clture shock to her POST A that I would not "stuff" or deprioritise my own healing under her convenience as I might have done pre-A.

You MUST lose your fear that if you defend your dignity, you might lose your W.

If she left you because you demanded thoughtful and humane treatment following the hurt SHE visited upon you, would that really be a nett loss ?

I TOO feared I'd lose Squid if I set my boundaries too "non sacrificially" but the very reverse was true. Squid respects me now far more then before.

So how to measure healing ? By how highly you are prepared to invest in your own worth in your marriage negotiation. Thats my measure.

The more worthy you feel you are - the more healed you are and in turn the more you WILL heal. IME

All blessings

Someone posted the other day about the difference between a FWW and RWW (Recovered Wayward Wife) and there is a difference. Sounds as if she wants to tell you "What's your problem? You got what you wanted, I'm still here aren't I so get over it. Nevermind that I am still not happy or that I still remember what it was like living in fantasyland and this doesn't compare. It's not like I am meeting him at the no tell motel anymore, what else do you want. Get over it or I am leaving (again)."

You on the other hand; "I want to know that you view what you did with disgust and remorse and that you have repented. I want to know that you will never do this to our family again because you have learned why you did this and what you, we need to do so that it can never happen again. I want to know that you are over him comitted to me and our M. I want to know that you truly understand the amount of pain and destruction you caused because of your entitled and selfish behavior. I want to know that you are willing to go to extremes to earn my trust again. I want to know that you want to build a new marriage, better than ever before, not returning back to where we were. I want to know that you are not going be wishy washy and flip with your feelings, that you are going to think and reason. I want to know that and a lot more.

In short, she wants to forget it ever happened and hope for the best with no plan or comittment. This will not work.

b0b--


Yes you have and I am appreciative of it. I really have taken it to heart. The dynamic of our conversations does have some more backbone to them and I refuse to let go of an issue until I believe she has heard me.


Absolutely. This was one of the problems she cites in her reasons our marriage was so bad. I never offered an opinion, instead, I always deferred to her.

"What movie do you want to see, husband?" "Whichever one you want, wife."

"Where do you want to eat dinner, husband?" "Wherever you want to, wife."

All fully purposed as making her happy -- providing her desires. Never intended to build a wall between us. But it did.

It's hard to not let the "keep her happy" reflexes (Giver) kick in when we're talking. When we're at home and she seems happy and we're getting along, here I come to "ruin" it by bringing up an issue that is eating me alive.


I agree and appreciate the way you worded that.

Thank you for the frank advice -- I will work on the eggshells.

Thank you, Marshmallow. I will try and keep her abreast of the "triggers" I'm conquering.

Yes, hopeandpray, that pretty much sums up the situation.

My greatest fear is that after three affairs, she has taught herself that it is an acceptable escape from the pressure of marriage/recovery. I worry that she will run there by default when recovery gets uncomfortable.

But as b0b pointed out -- if she would engage in another affair after seeing the damage and pain her three previous have caused, would she be that great of a loss in the first place?

Thanks

Artor

What helped ME was to use turnarounds in discussion:

Me " I feel disrespected when you insist on attending events where OM may be"

Squid " tough cr4p, I'm going ( subtext " he always gives in in the end")

Me " do you think I am unreasonable in insisting that you take all precautions to avoid contact with OM ever again?"

Squd " you're punishing me"

Me " if our situations were reversed, would YOU be happy for me to stay in contat with teh woman I betrayed you wish ?

Squid " thats different !! And Stupid !! " * sulks off *

Enough of these conversations DID change Squids entitled percepion of recovery. Eventually <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

All blessings

fearing HER anger is something within YOUR power to change in this dynamic situation

she owns her anger

you need to be able to feel your feelings & to respectfully express them to your wife

if she feels angry because she's been made aware of how much she has hurt you

so what?

Pep

Thanks b0b and Pepper.

I know I have to overcome the fear that she will throw in the towel.

I know I can't live in avoidance of her anger.

For what it's worth, she really is trying to help me get beyond this. I'm just not sure to how to get her to see that her issues aren't going to go away if she avoids them.

I guess I can only be responsible for my issues and working on getting myself healthy. She'll have to see what I'm doing and decide to come along.

Thanks

Artor, I think this is the first time I've posted to you... Your words here are almost exactly what I've just recently said.

Our situations sound very much alike as well. Day to day life is very good... but my W refuses to talk about deeper issues and if I bring anything up, I am "throwing it in her face".

I have recently said that I have to lead... My past form of leading was to take a step out and then look to see if my W was following along side of me. If she wasn't, I would quickly step back in to "safety" and wait for the next chance to try.

Now, I will focus on a goal and get moving. My W can move with me or not. I will keep my hand stretched back for her to grab onto if she wants... but I will move forward.

I hope for the best for you. Stop by my thread "Shaden's Log" if you get a chance and post how you are feeling. Like I said, we sound very similar.

I have heard Bob's words that he posted to you as well. They are excellent reminders.

Shaden

Artor

I know I have to overcome the fear that she will throw in the towel.

I know how uninstinctive this is, and I know how scary it is but you really MUST do this.

Squid was pouring belittling vitriol on me in a particularly foul way one evening about 2 months into NC.

I asked her calmly " Squid, why are you here ? Is THIS what you call "working on our marriage" as you told OMand I you intended to do ?

I love you, baby, but I also respect myself and I do not feel I deserve all this viciousness from you. I have arrived at a place where I love you, and i want you back, but i DO NOT need you.I'l be really sad if we don't reconcile, but I'll get over that better than if I allow myself to be treated so disrespectfully.

You need to think about what you want to do, but know that I feel Ionly deserve a clean choice from you: stay and work with NC, transparency and a willingness to learn, or leave me."

Bravest speech I ever made.

Squid came back from karate that evening transformed. Ofered to get me a glass of wine. Made small talk. Avoided lovebusters.

We had our problems moving formward GOD KNOWS but when I valued mself and our marriage enough to fight for it, it became valuable to Squid too.

I am not alone in this - so many recoveries have been redefined by investing value in it.

and in truth if your W chose to leave you by your insiting only on basic decency and marita effort from you, at teh price of your dignity an dhappiness is that REALLY a nett loss?

So as I ask many times Artor " what would you do if you were not afraid?"

All blessings

Artor

as a FWW I do think that many X ww go through a 'recovering"stage rather tham just suddenly gets hit with all the remorse & wants to recover the M in the traditional sense.

I feel its more subtle and her comments to you about there being too much damage are expressions of both fear and hope you will tell her no we can recover. She may sound agressive and act that way but inside she is probbably a mess of fear and denial, but you could pull her finger nails out before she would admit it.

It seems to me a xww goes from hope to despair in moments and yet has not fully accepted responsibility.. still trying to have some wriggle room. One, dont give give it, but do it with kindness even if you feel like yelling.
When she expresses doubt tell her you do have confidence however you need to heal at your pace not hers and you can help me by .... & so on.

Its not something a Xww likes to accept, but needs to be reminded of.

THEY/we caused this pain, it hurts, you the xww also see the hurt you gave another and you want to hide from it. Hide from the guilt.
Recovery begins I feel when you finally face the facts,,not just say the words ... I DID THIS I AM RESPONSIBLE.

In true healing (aka: recovery) the WS bears the brunt of the majority of the healing. This means helping the BS and themselves get closure.

The BS should not be explaining it all for as you can see when you do the burden and guilt gets put unfairly on the BS.

Learn t/d less and expect more. Remember the WS come from a lazy and selfish environment. Those habits don't die easy and NOT without a fight.

So keep your values high and give back the guilt the Xws tries to give you. When she does, give it back. When she balks question her sincerity. You will be able to gauge your real recovery by how she acts not how you act.

Please read my sig line about the stages of grieving. You will understand once a Xws truly comes back, the BS will go through a gamit of emotions of which the Xws must be very understanding. If she complains, then maybe she isn't worthy of your affection.

Also, as for the doubt and guilt, that can take much longer than the A did. Some have quoted twice as long. In my case the A went on for 3 1/2 years. We are at the 3 year recovery mark and I still carry plan B in my back pocket and periodically remind my H that the A hurt our family.

He knows when I give him back questions and it is his job to reassure me that all is well and he does care for us. Of course I decide whether to accept it or not. Most often I do but sometimes...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.