Do you all believe that when you love somebody you make the effort to try and work things out? I haven't spoke to my ex-girlfriend this week although she called and text messaged me once. I told her I didn't want to be with somebody who was unsure about whether or not they wanted to be in a relationship with me. I still have feelings for her and hope that down the road, we can be in a mutually satisfying relationship. She is moving on and recoonnecting with her friends as am I but I'm wondering if we will get back together someday. I recently saw a side of her that I never saw before. I feel like she misrepresented herself by the way she wanted to be with me. She never introduced me to her friends and I know that's a huge red flag but I didn't think she had a lot of friends until now, I guess. Sometimes, I feel like a sucker for not seeing that she wasn't comfortable being in a committed, mature relationship but I feel like she could be and that is the hardest thing for me to get over.

I'm gonna take off the rest of the year from dating and work on myself and I guess I'm just curious if anyone of you have let go of something only to have it come back to you better than ever? Do you believe that love can conquer all and if so, how will I know that what we really had was true love?

If in time, say by the end of the year, she wants to come back after missing what we had and experiencing more of the single life, does that mean what we had was real? Is this just a phase that she needs to go through in order to feel more comfortable with herself around me?

"I recently saw a side of her that I never saw before".

What was it that you saw? Also, before meeting her did you just get over another relationship or did she? How quickly did she attach herself to you when you started dating?

" I didn't think she had a lot of friends until now" Coughlin: these people may not be friends, just acquaintances.

Oh gawd, bud, I knew it wasn't going to take long for you to start doing the "what ifs" with this psycho again...


No, your love alone will not counquer the fact that she does not love you, and has played you like a fiddle, sorry...



No, it will mean that she is lonely again, and decided to fall back on old reliable, good ole Coughlin, for an ego boost.


She's very comfortable around you - that has never been the problem. She just has no intention to be in a relationship with you, that's all.

You are really a glutton for punishment, and I have no doubt that she will once again deliver exactly that...

AGG

I feel like she misrepresented herself by the way she wanted to be with me. She never introduced me to her friends and I know that's a huge red flag but I didn't think she had a lot of friends until now, I guess. Sometimes, I feel like a sucker for not seeing that she wasn't comfortable being in a committed, mature relationship but I feel like she could be and that is the hardest thing for me to get over.

What was misrepresentive about what she did? ALL of us here posting to you knew what she was representing. YOU didn't because you refused to see it.

Do you believe that love can conquer all and if so, how will I know that what we really had was true love?

You didn't have true love with her so you are looking for something that wasn't there.

If in time, say by the end of the year, she wants to come back after missing what we had and experiencing more of the single life, does that mean what we had was real? Is this just a phase that she needs to go through in order to feel more comfortable with herself around me?

OMG...you have really got to stop this line of thinking...it is not healthy coughlin. It is bordering on obsessive.

My daughter is 23 and against my suggestion she went out with a 34 year old man. They dated for 3 weeks tops and she realized that what I had told her was gospel. God...she couldn't get away from him and his obsessive talks...calls....emails...text messages.

"WHY? WHY? WHY?"

"I KNOW you love me..."

"I KNOW that you could be comfortable in this relationship if you just gave it a chance..."

"We have true love..."

"You will be wanting to come back to me ...."

These were all the things that he would say to her...and then it reached ugly...with the prosecutor involved.

He couldn't handle being rejected by this "younger" woman and this rejections issues were his own.

I am not saying that you are behaving in this manner, I am saying that your line of thinking is going to lead you to places that you don't want to go...nor have a right to go , like the statement about you know she could be comfortable in a committed relationship.

You DON'T know that. There is NOTHING to suggest that she would be. There is EVERYTHING to suggest otherwise.

There is none so blind as those who refuse to see.

2x4 down....

committed

coughlin i swear to god i am going to find where you live and smack the sh*t out of you! cut this out and move on. she is not going to come back to be with you in any way shape or form except to play with your head some more. block her from your phone and email and get on with it. omg, i so don't want to hear any more about this... i am sorry, but you have got to stop coughlin.

mlhb

let me put it to you this way... if you did not want any kind of relationship at all in any way shape or form and all you wanted was a good young boost your ego piece of a** once in awhile than she's your girl. yes, girl, not woman. take her out to dinner, drop a few bucks on her, (which i am sure she loves because guys her age usually don't have much money), have your roll in the hay and that would be it.

anything else you might want, as you well already know, she is not the one.

mlhb

Hey Guys, I don't mind alittle 2 X 4ing but can you take it easy. Here's another question that I have for you separate from this topic.

Does anyone here even believe and hope for love anymore since their divorce? Is there a part of you that is so scarred and hardened that doesn't allow yourselves to believe that True Love exists?

I'm not talking about my situation here but your situations. We're all on this board trying to find and avise eachother on red flags and what the right thing to do is versus the wrong thing and real love versus infatuation but I feel like the focus and the bandwagon here is on the negative. As much as we would all like to think that we know so much about how relationships to work, we've all been divorced so how does that make us experts.

Obviously, I still have a lot to learn but what I'm saying is can't we just for a second believe that there is hope and justice in the world and that Love does conquer all!

Am I in the minority here? How many of us can remember what we used to feel about love before we married the wrong people. My wife cheated on me cause I wouldn't drink with her on account of a liver disease that propped up during the course of our marriage. "In sickness and in health." I remember the oath and I knew what it meant and we all pledged to it. Did it happen? No. Am I perfect? No. I guess what I'm saying is that I believe in marriage, I believe that people can be perfect together even if other people don't see it and it looks imprefect or dare I say, "unconventional" to others. That was my word by the way.

I loved this girl and I'm not gonna feel sorry for having felt that and/or guilty because it didn't work out and I'm certainly not gonna feel like an idiot because you guys think so. I'm not asking for you to judge me, I was asking for your advice.

There's always gonna be someone out there who is afraid to take a chance and that's understandeable and there is alot of comfort here and I respect each one of you for what you've been through and how each of has triumphed but don't fault me for trying to find love.

coughlin,

i am NOT trying to fault you for trying to find love at all. nor do i judge you. a lot of us have just seen how, after our self esteems have been destroyed, we could "love" and "latch onto" someone, especially younger (great ego booster), and think it is love or something more than it is. i completely believe in true love, i believe i will find that happiness i deserve and desire. i do not believe i ever had that in my marriage. i know the right one is out there for me.

now, i am not saying the right one has to be a certain age either. however, we know in your sitch she is, as someone put, playing you like a violin. i know for me, younger does not work. i married younger and there was just too much of a maturity difference. he never got to "sew" those wild oats and after a few years of marriage and relationship he decided he wished he had had some time to sew them. that is one of the MAIN reasons myself and i am sure a lot of us think you should not be looking or pressuring someone so young to be in a relationship. what happens when she realizes a few years from now that she is still in her young to mid twenties hooked up with a guy almost 40 by then and she never got to sew her wild oats? she is going to get resentful and wanna sew them. why put yourself there? someone closer to your age has gotten that out of their system all ready. i know i want someone very close to my age. i know certian people may smash me for this since gekko and i are 8 months into an ldr and rarely see eachother and are still in the getting to know eachother stage but i will tell you, he is one year older than me, and what a difference it makes to have someone my age and my maturity level! we have the same ideas and goals and desires. someone younger than me does not have those. you get your priorities set and straight as you get older. my ex is younger than i am and his priorities and mine are way different. mine is family and a good future and love and caring. his is fun, and toys and material things and playing. see the difference? it is in the age.

i speak to you from my experience coughlin. we all do. there may be that rare find of someone significantly younger than us who is on the same maturity level, etc.. but that is RARE and as you know, not this exgf of yours. if you loved her, and i question that you did, not sure if you can truly say you know what love is, i think you had some very strong feelings yes, you don't need to apologize for that at all. but you have asked our opinions and advice and we have given it 10 fold.

it hurts to think we were used and that our love was for not. that we were played. we have ALL been played at one time or another. i was played for several years of my own marriage! i was played but my younger friend that i had a brief sf relationship with. yes, i still consider him a friend, but i know part of it was us using eachother. i was played. you will move on from this and you will find true love when you are NOT looking for it so darn hard. big age differences only on rare occasions actually work out coughlin, that is just the reality.

i absolutely believe in a loving respectful affectionate relationship. i have not in any way given up on love. it is out there for anyone who wants it, but both people have to want it. we just want to see you get away from this poisonous girl and get on with something healthy. you really need to build up your self esteem and be ok with you before you begin a relationship. you were ready for a long time to settle for less from this girl while you waited around to see if she would ever grow up. i think you should take a long look at that side of yourself and work on that so you are not just settling for scraps but are getting the full course meal you deserve.

mlhb

There's always gonna be someone out there who is afraid to take a chance and that's understandeable and there is alot of comfort here and I respect each one of you for what you've been through and how each of has triumphed but don't fault me for trying to find love.

We aren't faulting you for trying to find love. Speaking for myself here, I am faulting you for trying to FORCE love with someone that does not return your feeling.

If you were asking in a generic kind of way in the first post on this thread, my answer would have been generic. But you weren't. You were asking about that young girl that you want. You want her to want you in the same manner. She isn't going to do that. She has been quite clear on that.

Yes, people find love...and you will most likely find it again one day. But, you won't find it as long as you keep holding onto some imaginary love with that young girl.

committed

coughlin,

I don't think anyone is trying to find fault with the fact that you loved this young woman and you are not an idiot but you asked for advice and we all told you basically the same thing based on what you said.We all saw what you apparently did not or refused to believe for whatever reason.

And you are still spinning your wheels when you should be in NC.Everytime that woman texts you or calls,etc it's a step backward.

I believe in love but it has a very different meaning to me now.It used to be more "fairytale",believing the best in other's,loyalty and care,forever.Now it's more realistic....oh yeah,people can and will hurt you for their own selfish purposes even despite a marriage vow.No one is really an expert per se but surely if not being here and going through all that we have,reading and posting as much doesn't bring us close to being experts.

I don't think people jump on a bandwagon as much as it was trying to get you to see what we all did.And it happened to be negative....the way this woman treated you.Love does not conquer all.Not in real life.Not always.If it did then we wouldn't be going through such painful relationships and divorces.

In the beginning of finding out about my exwh's A,I brought out all the love letters and cards he had given to me as we dated and then after the early years of marriage.They were so loving,romantic and wonderful.When I tried to remind my ex how he felt about me he didn't care anymore,it was lost.That was then and this was now...the OW was the new life.

There's unconventional and then there's what you had with the GF.Or rather what you didn't have."True love" isn't some fairytale because that is not realistic.What would you have us tell you? That sure,one day she may wake up and see how great you are and lucky to have you? That she may eventually change and be all that you built up the relationship to be in your own mind?

Please go to NC ok? You need a clear mind to re-evaluate things about yourself and you can't do that if she keeps contacting you.The fog can settle on anyone,you know?

Loving someone means that you try to do what is best for them under the circumstances. Sometimes that means trying to work things out. Sometimes it means walking away.

Quite clearly, this "relationship" you have is not healthy for either of you.

That's a rather odd and impatient position to take, if you think about it. How is anyone supposed to figure out whether they want to be in a relationship with you unless they spend time with you?

Of course, that's not particularly relevant to your situation. In your case, it's not about trying to figure anything out; it's about the two of you not wanting the same thing.

Not I.

The purpose of love is not to make something happen just because you want it to happen; so no, love cannot conquer all. And if you're talking about "true love," there's no "we" in it, as if love has some independent existence. You can ask whether she truly loved you, or whether you truly loved her, but that's as far as you can go.

You're fantasizing here. And let's suppose, just for the sake of argument, that she eventually gets tired of playing around and develops a more mature set of values. Don't delude yourself into thinking that if she ever gets to that point she's going to be able to look back and realize what she "threw away" with you. What she had is not (and never was) what you had.

All you're doing here is trying to find excuses not to listen to us. It's you, the noble believer in True Love, against a host of cynical nay-sayers. How very romantic, especially when you eventually prove us all wrong after love finally does conquer all.

Well, I'll see your martyr complex and raise you double. I for one have never stopped believing in love; and there's no one I've ever chosen to love whom I've ever stopped loving. Yes, I still love my ex-wife: I still want the best for her. I let her go because no good could have come from me trying to hold onto her against her will. She believes all kinds of lies about me now; and honestly, if she ever stops running from herself and heals, I hope she never realizes how she repaid my love and what she threw away. That would be a heavy burden for her to bear, and I'd rather that she moved forward than that she bore the pain of the past.

More defensiveness. Listen, Coughlin, there's a woman I know, whom I've loved for years. She's fifteen years younger than me, in her late twenties now, and if she were interested in me, I would not hesitate to marry her. I believe we would "be perfect together." So wherever I'm coming from, believe me, it's not because I've got some sort of prejudice regarding your age-gap situation.

I do not feel guilty about loving this woman. I don't believe that love - real love - is ever a mistake. But we're not together. We're not in contact. Why? Because that is what love required of me.

Love is about what you choose. Love is about what you do. Love is not about indulging in fairy-tale fantasies.

Well, sure, if we were on the Disney website, we could all hold hands and believe in Sleeping Beauty and Snow White, where True Love counquers all. But, being on Marriage Builders, I assume you have at least some familiarity (and agreement?) with Harley's concepts regarding what it takes to build and sustain love. And, as you know, it is mundane things like meeting ENs, avoiding LBs, and Undivided Attention. From what I know of your story, you had none of those with this girl. So, no, I don't believe that your love for her will conquer the fundamental (and major) issues you had with her.


No one faulted you for trying to find love; we all are trying to do the same <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. What we all beat you up on is your trying to find love with this particular girl. She is bad news for you.

AGG

I guess it's hard to accept reality when reality stinks. I go to the office and everyone knows that we aren't together anymore and all the guys are trying to hit on her and I'm just trying to get my work done and not act like any of this is affecting me.

I felt like she was contadicting herslef about what she wanted and I couldn't trust that. I see a part of her now that is young and immature and I guess that is her true self. She wants to have fun and experience different things. How can I fault her for that. You guys have a lot of valid points. I understand that she needs to experience those things and "get it out of her system" so that she doesn't resent me. I lived with my ex-wife right out of college and we married years later and to be honest, I didn't get alot of stuff out of my system and I wasn't sure who I was or what I wanted and that caused problems for us.

I understand that people change and what my values and goals are today at this stage of my life will be different 10 years from now. I guess I'm just looking for someone to care for and do and share things with.

I will try and avoid her as much as possible around the office and not return her calls or texts because it would be a step back. I'm just having a hard time letting go of the possibilities.

What I meant to say by "Love conquers all" was that anything is possible and I believe in "Serendipity". If that's just a fantasy then I'll accept that because the alternative doesn't leave much room for hope.

Isn't hope just another word for fantasy? I hope to find that special person, I hope that person could be her. I don't see what's wrong with that.

It's not wrong to hope someone will be the one for you to spend your life with. It is not productive to continue to hope when you have been shown otherwise many times over.

Picture this: I'm in my home, it's raining hard & has been for days. The weather people predict flooding. I hope it won't flood. I notice a leak in a small section of the basement. I hope it doesn't get worse. I notice it's getting worse as the rain continues to fall. I really hope it doesn't get much worse. Rain keeps falling, weather predictions are for more rain. What good will hope do me here? I've been shown the rain will likely continue & my basement will take on more water.

I'm sure you see the point.

Hope you'll meet the right WOMAN, not girl, in the not too distant future.

good points nams..
and, when you continue to hope it will be her, you do not leave yourself open to other possibilities. the right woman could walk into your life and you would miss it because you are hanging onto a non-reality. she will move inevitably. she will probably date quite a few diff people, maybe even find another older guy to fill your shoes that she can play and have fun with and have drop a few bucks on her. and in the mean time you are sitting their waiting and letting life pass you by....

keep yourself open to other possibilities. when the right woman comes along you will forget all about this young thing. never mind not answering her texts and emails.. BLOCK HER FROM YOUR PHONE AND COMPUTER, just like a plan b, then you don't have to put yourself through trying to be strong enuff not to respond! you can't respond to what you don't get.

no amount of what we tell you is going to make you let go and move on.. only you can do that on your own. you want to keep hanging on to the thought you will be with her, that is your business. but don't expect us to support that self-destructive behavior.

mlhb

Coughlin,

First off, I don’t believe you loved this woman. I believe you loved an image of her that you yourself created. Unfortunately, she was an unwilling Galetea to your Pygmalion. Sje wouldn’t become what you image her to be. So concentrate on what she really is, a coquette. You’ll get over her sooner.

Also, I’d like to point out there is something disrespectful or condescending in thinking someone is “going through a phase.” That expression is usually reserved for 2-3 year olds and teenagers. When used with adults, it is demeaning. When used for an adult you’ve only known briefly, it’s delusion. This is not a phase. This is who she is now. She may change as her experiences change, but that’s a huge unknown.

As to letting something go, and having it come back to you… I’ve wished that to happen when I was younger. A couple of times it did, but it never came back “better.” The person was a little different, I was a little different, and it soon became obvious to one of us why we didn’t work out the first time. Some men still wanted me, and I still didn’t want them. Some men I wanted big time, and they still didn’t want me. And sometimes, we both just thumped our heads and said “What were we thinking?” The thing is you have to learn to accept “This is not going to be.”

And give up on love? Never. However, I’ve learned to temper emotion with good sense, to not lose my sense of proportion. Love is important, but it is only one important thing. There’s also honor, duty, honesty, loyalty, not to mention hope and faith and charity.

So, while I’m in love with M, I’m not willing to toss it all away for this. I’d walk away so fast if it looked like he’d be bad for the girls, or if we met a deal breaker. If M broke up with me, I’d get over it. It would stink for many months, but I’d get through it. People do.

Cake love versus bread-and-butter love. I’m going for bread and butter. It doesn’t make you feel sick if you eat it three meals a day.

"First off, I don’t believe you loved this woman. I believe you loved an image of her that you yourself created."

I have to agree with Greengables here. I think you had an image of her being as in love with the idea of being in a relationship with you as you were with the idea of being in one with her. Don't weave fantasies in your mind of her possibly waking up and coming back to you. Let go. You deserve better.

I suspect that you are taking the failure of this relationship somehow as a hit to your ego, to your sense of self-esteem (and hence your hope that someday she'll want you back, that would mean you are more worthwhile). You are no less valuable a person without this woman. In fact, you're worth more without her, because you know better.

I know society sometimes makes those of us that are single feel like we've failed in some way, and it often feels like if we could only find love, we'd be so much more, but it's better to be by yourself than to be in a bad relationship.

That's my 2 cents worth, having read only this thread, not any previous ones.

Jen

Well, as was already pointed out, what you have with this girl is closer to obssession than hope.


The only thing wrong with that is that for every day you obssess about Ms. Wrong (this girl), you are making yourself unavailable to Ms. Right when she comes along. You would do much better to wipe the slate clean, regroup, and move on (and hope for Ms. Right to come along, which she will), than to sit there pining for the girl, watching her flirt with coworkers, and dream of the day that she will suddenly have a change of heart and come running to you.

AGG

You know, this might be a good opportunity to sit back and analyze why you want this one to turn out to be The One. It reminds me a little of high school where the less popular girl dreams of the popular boy suddenly plucking her out of her group and making her his girl. Does the girl really want this boy? Maybe she’s physically attracted to him, but the crush is about more than physical attraction: it’s about the promise he holds. Being with him promises instant status, idealized romance, a sophisticated, experienced kisser, dates to the important parties, etc. None of this has anything to do with the boy himself.

So, what is it you want that this young lady promises? You say you want to do couples things, but she doesn’t like that, so that’s not what she’s promising. There’s the status of a beautiful young girl, and the implication of virility that carries. There’s also the “fun” factor. What else does her persona promise you?

not to mention how ridiculous a man your age looks with a younger 20 something. i am sure that is part of the reason she didn't want you hanging out with her friends. it looks like a man who is trying to hang onto his youth or let everyone know "hey look at me, i am in my mid to late 30's and i can still hook a 20 something" and when a girl walks in with an older guy, every thinks "oh, he must have money"

hate to be so blunt, but that's the reality.
it simply looks and is, RIDICULOUS.

mlhb