I guess it's hard to accept reality when reality stinks. I go to the office and everyone knows that we aren't together anymore and all the guys are trying to hit on her and I'm just trying to get my work done and not act like any of this is affecting me.

And there you have the EXACT reason that workplace romances are discouraged, if not outright banned.

It is a bad, bad, BAD, bad, Bad, did I say... [color:"red"] BAD [/color] idea. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

You can still learn from this experience ya know.

jmho
committed

O.k., here's the thing. First of all, I don't think we looked ridiculous together as a matter ofact we were a pretty great looking couple and I don't think that's why she didn't bring me around her friends because of how I looked. I have to wonder why women seem to be the only ones who have a problem with me dating a younger women like it's some kind of insult to their own character. Really, lots of women, my age have a real issue with it and it's so obvious and annoying sometimes. I'm not dating a younger person to offend anyone. To be honest, alot of women, my age are in a rush or in my eyes, don't have the same sweetness about them for whatever reason, maybe they were divorced or whatever, etc.

Greengables, I think that this person could make me always be happy around her and never want to be with anybody else for as long as I lived. I don't think I'll find the same intensity and attraction with anyone my own age. She excites me and makes me want to just be with her. It doesn't matter what we do. I felt connected to her in a way that I've never felt to anybody else. I can't understand why you don't believe that what I felt was love. I haven't spoke to her in a week and will do the No Contact thing and keep my eyes open in the meantime but I've never felt so sure about wanting to be with someone before and I know she doesn't feel the same about me and that's why we aren't together but maybe we both need to work on ourselves some more before we can make a relationship work like you said. Maybe she is the right girl at the wrong time. So if time, is all that's standing in my way, and time is what heals all wounds than time is worth waiting for.

Did you guys ever get this feeling that defies logic and reason and maybe nobody else would understand you because you can't really define it but I swear it just feels right when we are together.

Coughlin, bud, you are beginning to scare me. You are sounding more and more like Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction.

Please, read what you wrote above, and then show it to your friends and ask what they think...

No one in their right mind would make the conclusion that if someone does not return their feelings of affection, it must be just a matter of them working on themselves before they do. That is the definition of obssession, refusing to take no for an anwer.

I really hope that you can let this go, but it is seeming less and less likely to happen, the more I read your posts. I hope you don't get in trouble at work or with the law over this chick...

AGG

nope, and i am done posting on this thread.
i hope you find happiness coughlin, i do.
you are beating a dead horse.

gekko was off and on dating 2 different 20 somethings when i first started to get to know him and we started talking. and guess what? he is with me, someone his age, and imagine that coughlin, we are both VERY happy and he found that excitement and sweetness you speak of, in me, a 35 year old divorced with 2 kids woman.
he also knew he looked ridiculous dating such younger women, and he admitted that to me. it was a great ego boost and served the purpose for the time and purpose it was meant to serve. you are obviously not meeting the right women who are within your age group. i may not be 20 something but i am fun and exciting and sweet and caring and loving.

yes, women more of than men are going to have issue with a man dating so much younger. i am thankful for the man in my life who appreciates someone his age he can have an intelligent conversation with who can share in the same life experiences. and yes, i am sure all your man friends had no issue with you dating so much younger. what man in his 30's or 40's wouldn't want the fantasy 20 something in bed with them!

anyway,
i am done trying to be of help and being honest with you.
you are obviously obsessed and NOT going to listen to any of us.

good luck
mlhb

coughlin,

I don't have a problem with you dating younger women...I have a problem with you not accepting what THIS young girl has told you.

You are trying to force a relationship and she has been clear that isn't what she wants. You are a good time Charlie to her.

You are pining for someone who doesn't return your feelings and you are just going to wait it out because you KNOW that she is capable of having a meaningful relationship with you.

That is absurd...she does not want one. Stop with the obsession...it ain't healthy.

committed

Wow, it sounds alot like Fatal Attraction to me, too. I sure hope she doesn't have a pet bunny...

Honestly Coughlin, it doesn't sound like you had a real relationship with her but more of a one-sided fantasy that included occasional sex. Honestly, what I think has happened is that the "booty calls" have led to a physical dependency that is stronger than any emotional ties that you might have to her. In other words, you're thinking with the wrong head.It comes across more like an addiction than love. See the deception and cut the cord or find a good 12 step program.

Here's the thing. I appreciate all of your input but I'm not obsessed with my ex. I'm trying to give her the space she needs to figure out what she wants. If she doesn't miss me enough to want to work things out during this time apart then I'll have my answer.

I refuse to settle for someone my age who has kids which I don't want or has a bad attitude which I don't need. I'm sorry if you all are not understanding what I'm trying to do or not do which is communicate with her and push her away. I'm preparing myself for the very "real" chance that she will not want me in her life thanks in a large part to you guys.

I really feel like she is the one for me and I'm not ready to just throw it away. I had a girl call me just yesterday whose 26 or 27 that wanted to come over my house. She's an ex-girlfriend and I couldn't go through with it.

Am I holding out for a miracle at this point, yes, maybe so but that is my decision and maybe I will miss out on other things but I can't imagine myself with anybody right now anyways.

I think it's fantastic that you, mhlb and Ghekko have found eachother here on this board and are able to comfort and make eachother feel special. I went on a date a couple weeks ago with a woman who had a 6 year old girl and she was a year older than me and we did have a great conversation but there was something missing. To be completely honest, she told her friends that she though I was gay, not that there's anything wrong with that, because I didn't make a move on her. First of all, I wasn't attracted to her but what was I supposed to jump her bones in the parking lot--maybe on the hood of her car?

Yeah, I am going to agree with you here... I think that being childless, you would do better meeting someone similar (all else being equal)- I agree that very often parents and non-parents do not "get" each other. Agreed <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Also, I don't think your problem with your girl is the age. She may be 25 or 35, that is not the problem. I dated a 37 yo woman who was every bit as much of a player as your girl. The problem is not the age, but that your girl does not want to have a mature relationship with you - and precisely like you are arguing, it is NOT the age thing, something that she will simply "grow out of" in a year or two. No, the problem is that she does not want what you want, and it most likely won't change - hence proving my point that you should not "wait" for her but move on. She won't "grow" into suddenly wanting to settle down with you - and if she does, I'd run for the hills, because there is bound to be a hidden agends.

AGG

Maybe you're obsessed, or maybe not, but you sure sound like it here, Coughlin. I'm not sure how big a deal that is, though, as long as you take the right actions. It's neither surprising nor abnormal that right now you can't imagine yourself with anyone else; but if you're like most people, time and distance should help you to develop a more realistic and healthier perspective.

Of course, there are things you can do to expedite that...

Look, Coughlin, on the age thing...I agree with AGG here, that age is not really the issue. Personally, I find mlhb's comment "what man in his 30's or 40's wouldn't want the fantasy 20 something in bed with them!" to be slightly offensive, and I'm not going to assume that it's your para-amour's youthfulness which is the true attraction for you - although you don't seem to realize this yourself, since you express doubt that you'll "find the same intensity and attraction with anyone my own age." I encourage you to try to understand where both your attraction and your prejudice come from - because as someone else suggested to you recently, what this girl represents to you is no less significant than her identity as a unique person.

That's not a bad thing; it's just the way we're wired. In my own case, I could itemize pretty well what my young lady friend represented for me - what effects a relationship with her could have had on my life, and how those effects lined up with my values. (And ego-boosts from the fantasy of being with a younger woman had nothing whatsoever to do with it - in all honesty I was never comfortable with the age gap.) Seen in those terms, it was possible for me to recognize that it wasn't her that I needed, regardless of whatever my emotions might try to tell me at any given time.

I'll admit that most of the women my own age seem stuck-in-a-rut boring, but I know enough women even older than I am who have retained sweetness and vitality and interest in life, that I don't mistake these qualities for mere youthfulness. Sure these things may be rare in an older woman, but probably no more rare than depth and maturity in a twenty-something woman.

If you understand what it is that you're really looking for, I think you'll stand a better chance of recognizing it when it wanders across your path. Also, if what you're looking for turns out to be unhealthy (as for instance in the classic case of looking for someone to rescue - which I offer as a general example rather than a personalized assessment), you have a better chance of not letting your emotions suck you in.

gnome, i want to address your comment (even tho i said i was done with this thread, i should say i am done addressing coughlin on this thread)

i did not mean to come across offensive and should have reworded that. not ALL men who are older are into younger women and i applaud those men! i am a woman who takes care of herself, is very attractive, very intelligent, does the hair, nail, tanning thing, goes to the gym, etc. i also happen to be 35. i think i am very fun, vibrant, energetic, loving, affectionate, etc... i am actually more so NOW than when i was in my 20's. i think i made that statement more to coughlin than anyone else because i took HUGE offense to the fact he said he wouldn't find the above qualities in someone his age. that is a bunch of BS in my opinion, just another excuse to keep chasing younger women. i know plenty of women my age who fun and all the things she says this young girl has. i feel and look better now than i did in my 20's.

i also come from a perspective of having a husband who continually had sexual affairs with younger women (except for 1 i think) so yes, i am a little touchy on the subject of the younger woman thing. if all men feel they need younger women, what the ****** are us 30's and over women supposed to do, go find a 70 year old? that is where i am coming from. thank god i found a man who is happy with and WANTED someone his own age. THAT is refreshing. who finds me just as beautiful and fun and vibrant, etc, as any 20 something.

i do apologize for lumping "all" men into one category.

i do agree with AGG on the child thing. there are some men, if they have never had kids, that want to date a woman who has them. and we women who have kids don't want to date a man like that trust me. i would prefer dating a man who has a child because they get that whole parenting thing. but, i think coughlin can find plenty of women close to his age who do not have children. gekko knows a ton of women who are career women who just have not settled down yet, never married, no kids. well, i should say his cousin does, they are all her group of friends. so, i don't think he needs to necessarily, or any childless man for that matter, needs to be looking to the 20 something group to find a woman with no kids, or a woman who is fun and youthful and vibrant. there are plenty in the 30 something age group who are just that.

that is where i am coming from.
mlhb

Coughlin,

These types of feelings come from within you, these are the things you bring into a relationship. They are not coming from her, they are coming from you, and so in that sense you can have them with anyone if you choose to.

We get confused in thinking that other people make us feel a certain way when in reality we make ourselves feel things, and then we project them onto another person.

If you can really grasp that, then you can find love with just about anyone. The hard part (after choosing to be happy and becoming the type of person we would like to attract into our life) would be to try and figure out what kind of person would bring out the best in us, and we them and then setting out to find that person. At any rate, when you get to that point you get over break ups pretty quickly, because it is not that you need , it is because you want. Big difference.

That's what a partnership is all about.

When you get to the place where you have had enough pain, re-read these posts to you and do what the others have suggested -

Try to figure out what about her you need so much that you feel she is the only one who can make you feel those things and then figure out a way to become the type of person living the life where you feel that way on your own.

It's all about the decision to be happy instead of in pain, and then using the awesome mind God gave us to bring that into fruition.

I was obsessed with someone when I was about 27, and looking back now, it had nothing to do with him at all. It was my way of avoiding my life. Kind of an escape. One morning I woke up and the pain/rejection had finally lost all attraction for me...

I realize you are not there yet and still hurting pretty badly, but felt compelled to chime in with my thoughts anyway.

Yeah, mlhb, I figured it was something like that. Not a problem.

I don't understand the idea that if a man doesn't want children, he should seek out younger women. OK, I get the part about avoiding desperate women whose biological clocks are ticking ever louder as their child-bearing years dwindle, but it seems to me that it's the younger women who are more likely to change their minds about whether or not they want children as they get older.

I'm troubled by this business about women who have kids not wanting to date a man who doesn't. If it's true, it puts someone like me in an awkward position. I don't have kids, but would like to have them. My only partnership options are with a woman who is young enough to have them, or with a woman who already has them. Both options are apparently looked upon with suspicion.

Oh, well. I suppose it's all academic anyway...

i would have no problem dating a man who did NOT have children if he was really good to mine, if he could understand that there are times a date might be cancelled due to a sick child, etc... sometimes men who do not have kids don't get that and get upset because such situations arise. i would not want myself in a position where a man would get upset i might have to cancel due to my kids, get fed up with it, and say 'oh i will just go find someone who doesn't have kids, it will be easier'

you may be a man who would fit in great with kids. my stepfather never had any kids of his own and he was fine with me. there are just SOME men who would not fit into my picture very well unless they had kids too. i have not dated a lot since my break up a year and a half ago. gekko is actually the only one who DID have a child. one guy didn't want a long term R with someone who had kids, he wanted his own not someone elses, and one guy just didn't fit into my picture at all!

again, i don't want to lump all men into that category, i am getting from coughlin he doesn't want to date a woman who has kids since he has none. that is def his choice.

mlhb

Hm... I see nothing wrong in that thinking... I can understand...
I guess because I was like that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I.e. before I became the mother, I never dated a guy who was divorced/had kids.
Two worlds, them and me, in that phase of my life.
I understood nothing about what it really means to be the parent, nor I could live putting anyone else but myself on the first place on 'the list of priorities'... Nor I wanted share 'my man' with anyone else...
I was free, and I was looking for someone free, in any sense, as I was.

Now I am the mother, and if I meet a guy without the kids, I would understand why he wouldn't want to be with me.
Moreover, I'd appreciate him knowing himself enough, to be aware what he wants and what not, vs. he's not, we are together, and then many problems appear because he has no idea what being the parent really means...

Now you can 'kill' me I guess <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Coughlin,


Does she think the same? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I mean, what does she think, do you know (not what you think she thinks)?


But because of...?


I don't think like that at all!
Men who prefer younger women (than me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) are not my type anyway <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
And I can tell you, the older I get, the younger men attract me more (for older than me are too old <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />)
'Pure physically', that is.
Spiritually, it depends on the person, of course.
You can see 'dead minds' in their 20s the same as in their 60s, and opposite...
And to be attracted for 'till the death makes us apart'... do you really notice the age...??
If given a chance, that is <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


So, it is not their age, but their (bad) experience, right?
Rush... hm... related to their personality, not their age, couldn't you say?
Unless if you think of 'biological clock, then yes, you are right. The same as MLC for men, rushing before the last sperm dies unused. Natural, instinct, normal.


And what do you think you should change about yourself?


I understand. You cannot do anything before you are ready.
So, wait, wait and see.
But wait peacefully, don't make troubles <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


Of course. Whenever your wish is stronger than your racio.
Whenever you escape from reality.
Reality very often really sucks, no wonder escaping from it, from time to time at least. But not for a longer time though. It's not so much fun to keep hanging on a cloud, neither in heaven nor on the earth, gets painful too, because of gravity. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


But you are obsessed with being with her, can't you say?
More probably it's just 'denial phase'...


Sounds reasonable.
And if so, then there is no problem here.
Whatever it is, you accept, not making harm to yourself or to the others, right?

coughlin,

With all dues respect,I really think you are having issues:




First of all ,how can she miss you if you are at her beck and call? You see eachother periodically so she gets just a slice of you for the time being and off she goes again.And,from my experience,a bunch of guys hitting on her at work is usually a bad sign of the "type" of woman she is.She sounds like she is giving out certain vibes,you know? Plus spending time apart to see if one misses the other isn't a true litmus test of a healthy relationship.Also I don't think you would get a clue if she didn't miss you either.You aren't seeing anything but what you want right now.




Yet:



If she is so special why are you dating other's??




For the life of me I cannot understand what it is you are holding out for? Other's have inquired too but there's no specific answer.You are feeding the false hope.




Ok,fair enough BUT...do you rreally think a young woman isn't going to think about kids at some point? Yes there are those who never want kids but most do at some point.Then what?