BB, I am one of the marriages that is going to fail. And seeing the failure rate of second marriages (especially those with 'blended' families) hurts me a whole lot, because I know that I'm going to be riding that statistic.

My wife cheated on me many times in less than a year, including one affair that lasted 3 months or so. Then she abandoned me, not to any specific OM, but to a life of promiscuity, drug use, general irresponsibility, and disrespect to her family, our son, and myself. There is no hope for recovery there. No matter how much I love her. I just can't imagine living in that shadow for the rest of my life.

I wish you luck. If you want to make it, you can find a way.

This changes everything I said before.

You need to know if he has just gone underground with the affair. You need to investigate. You said that he is all involved in the computer now and never before. You need to check out who he is communicating with. Check phone record cell phone call list, Credit card records etc. Investigate, investigate, investigate.

Don't believe for a second that he is telling the truth about the OW initiating contact and he did't tell you out of fear. They say where there is smoke there is fire!!!! May just be more out of fear of being found out. There are others out there that can be of more help than I but you really need to know if he is indeed back in your M or is he just keeping you in dark and living out his fantasy at your expense.

If you had suspicions, or still do for that matter, they are more than likely justified. If on the other hand what he says proves to be true you still deserve to know the truth.

Then if what he says is true He needs to get busy and help you!!!!!!!

Either way if you want to save your M it is still possible but only with No Contact with the OW first and formost. Then follow the information given on this sight. READ get help and LIVE IT. It does work if you really are committed and work on it.

BB,

U need closure and your H needs to help you get it.

Talk to Steve??!?!?

L.

I know that the affair has ended. He doesn't communicate with anyone on the computer, I know that because he doesn't know enough about computers and I can check "History" all the time. (he doesn't even know that there is such a thing as "history")

Cell phone records always come "detailed" and nothing has come up..........so I have nothing that gives me the "gut" feeling that something is going on. Believe me, I CAN trust my gut, better than anything else.

I don't have the urge to check out on things anymore.........I feel that I am giving what I can and that I gave whatever possible and if that isn't enough, I don't believe that "anyone" would be able to "give more!"

It could be very possible that the intiated contact came from the xOW side, because it was always at the place where he works at sometimes. It's easy to see if he's there by just driving past that place. Therefore, I believe him when he says that he didn't intiate the contact.
I also got the cellphone bill from xOW and there was NO telephone contact between my husband and her.......besides one time, when she tryed to call him and didn't know that it was then "MY" cellphone.

But again, this all happened around that time, 3 years ago and when OWH threw her out of the house and signed for divorce. xOW was needy and she very well might of tryed to "warm-up" the affair because she had no $$$ and no place to go.

I wouldn't know when my husband would have the time to "get together" with xOW..............he is absolutely accountable for his time. My grown-up son goes with him quit abit also.
We spend the weekends together and he's home right after work everyday. He doesn't go out alone............

We spend alot of "pleasure" time with going out to eat, we go to the movies, we go for long walks and we spend a great deal of time with our grown-up children and our little grandson.

I have asked my husband over and over again, if there was "more" to what happened at that time...............he swears to god that "nothing" more had happened and that the talks only lasted 2-3 minutes, without either of them even leaving their cars. The talks happened when he headed for home from the place where he works at sometimes and she'd drive past him in the car.

He tells me that the talks were very unpleasant for him and he felt very uncomfortable. He says that one time xOW was crying in her can and she told him that OWH wanted a divorce. My husbands reply was: Too bad.........I have to go now.

This was the last time, he saw her and the last time they talked. But even after these, what my husband calls, "Short talks" she tryed to phone him on his cellphone.........hmmmmm............I think this sounds strange. If he truely was as short as he said he was.........was was xOW still so encouraged to talk with him???? Wouldn't she of been discouraged???

This is where I cannot believe my husband and I have asked him "over and over" again, if there was more to his story.

I think, I need to talk to him once again...........this is twirling in my mind!

On the other hand................WHY should I???? I'm NOT saying that my marriage is falling apart............

I'm at the point that I have no more the energy to dig into the past for answers...........

I have read this site for so long and over and over again. I have tried my best to LIVE IT!!!!! I CANNOT educate my husband and I CANNOT tell him what to do. This is NOT up to me, honesty and loyalty comes from deep inside and you either have it or NOT!

My husband is "getting there" that's for sure............but the price has been very high. It has done so much to my feelings and it has definately "sucked" me to the bones...........

I've told him that he has all the information to make things work and that it is up to him to take me seriously before the day comes when my feelings "shut down"........I've told him that my feelings had started to "shut down" slowly............and I have told him that it scares me when I feel this way because once my feelings do shut down, they are "Shut" forever.

BTW: How can he proove to me that what he says is the truth???? Any ideas???

bb

Orchid,
how can my husband help me to get "closure"??? We have talked about this so many times and I feel quite good after we have talked and then...................it starts to creep me again.

Why does a person lie about something that was so "harmless"??? If he lied about that, I'm more than sure he he'd die before he'd tell me that there was definately more to that story.

Good idea about talking with Steve. I'm gonna see how I can do that.

bb

Hi BB:

Please allow me to point out a big of illogic in your thinking. You said:


Please think that if you are obsessed, so might she be. In other words, no matter what you husband does or did to terminate the affair, in her hearts of hearts she has great difficulty accepting it and thus would not be as discouraged by his abrupt dismissal as you would want her to be. In other words, you are projecting on her how you want her to feel.

For whatever reason, your husband gave in to his weaknesses at one point in his life. He now spends a great deal of energy attempting to make up for it. And you are spending a great deal of your mental energy attempting to find fault; simply put, you don't want to forgive him.

And it seems that there is more to it than that, way more to it than that. Please don't be offended by the questions I ask. I am a newcomer to your thread and I just want to help you, if I can. In a nutshell, why do you doubt that your husband really, really chose you?

Is the OW younger and/or prettier than you? Do you think she might have been better in bed? What is it about the OW that drives you up a female mental wall? Why don't you feel secure with your husband? He appears to be doing everything he can to be the dutiful husband most women would kill for - albiet as a result of an affair that woke him up, didn't it?

An affair is all about the affairees and not about the spouse(s). Frequently someone will pick a person to have an affair with who is way less endowed by desirable qualities than the mate they are betraying. Your husband's affair was way less about YOU than it was about HIM.

An affair presents an opportunity for both parties to grow up and become adults - maturity. An affair presents an opportunity for both parties to find lasting love instead of infatuation. To do that, both parties have to be willing to forgive themselves and the other person and move on with a life that is better than the one that led to the affair. In other words, a new relationship.

And at the end of the day, the betrayed must be willing to agree with Harley's basic statement that all of us are vulnerable, all of us. Which in turn means that any of us could have an affair if we fail to protect our weakness. So we forgive those who do because there might go ourselves. All we ask is that they never do it again and that they do the best to engage in retribution - and thereafter join us in a relationship worth having.

We forgive. It is the right thing to do.

Larry

Thanks Larry for your input. I don't feel offended in any way. We're all here to talk about things and to see other point of views.

Just want to make a few things clear. I am NOT obsessing about the xOW. So this isn't the problem.

The problem is that I feel totally "sucked out" and not much of "me" is truely left.
Due to the fact that I gave everything possible, full bast for the past years has made me feel "empty" now.

I had once wrote a thread about "Burning the past"..........it was the night when I went to a place at the lake with my husband. I packed us a basket with wine, candles, a blanket and all the things that reminded me of his affair. We celebrated and we burned everything......I truely forgave my husband for what he did. This was so emotional and very intimate. We layed on our backs in the moonlight that nite and I cannot remember ever feeling closer to my husband than that night.

He promised to NEVER again let anything come between us and he promised to inform me if xOW ever tried to contact him.

It was a great time and I was full of energie again. My husband "sparkled" when we were together and I couldn't have enough of fullfilling his needs.
He told me "over and over" again that he'd NEVER let anything come between us and that he understood the importance of "honesty".
I told him that "honesty" was the only thing I really needed and that it was the most important part for me to be able to "recover" from this situation.

He did "everything" to comfort me and to proove that he was the man I believed in.................

This is where my problem started...........

If you read my other thread I explained about the hang-up calls and that we went to a professional concelor.

This is where he failed. He lied...............it was his choice and it could of been his chance to show me that he really was honest.................this is where I start to obsess. This hurt me more than the affair. The fact that he lied.
He was doing all the right things........except everything was based on a lie and he let me feel as if I was NUTS, once again.

Either the affair was still going on or............I don't know. I don't get it.
He was getting everything that a man can dream of and yet, he choose to lie............

I truely haven't "forgiven" this part of our story...........how can I???? Forgiving comes from deep inside, doesn't it??? The beserk thing of all of this is that my husband always says the following:

"Never make the same mistake twice, there are so many other mistakes, one can make"

BTW: He knows my thoughts...........so I haven't held back anything.

bb

BB,

I may be totally off base, so ignore me if I'm wrong. This sounds a little like one of two things. a) "buyers remorse" b) you got ripped off. I use these terms becuase I like the way Dr. Harley says the BS needs to be "compensated" for the A. I think its it important to understand what compensated is. I think for many BS, their thought process is if I can just get us through this A, I will be compensated by having a loving faithful spouse, that meets my needs, helps keep the family together, etc. etc.

All things you were expecting when you decided to work on the M, and all the things that you thought would be fair compensation.

Now, it doesn't feel like fair compensation. You put more in than you are getting out.

I would say the first step is too decide between a, buyers remorse, and b, ripped off.

Buyers remorse I view as you are getting everything you imagined you would way back when you made the decision to stay in the M. Its just not worth as much to you now. I view this as somewhat of a problem for you to take the first steps to resolve. Why did the value of these things change? Did your perspective change? I think many BS's perspective change when they feel their FWS "got away with it".

Feeling ripped off is when you are not getting everything you imagined when you made the decision to stay in the M. If this is the case, then I would say the burden is on your S. Go back to what your expectations were when you decided to stay in the M. Was your S aware of those expectations? If so, ask them if they think they are living up to their end of the bargain. If they weren't aware, discuss it with them.

Just my two cents.

It seems as if you have, for the most part, eliminated an ongoing A.

So since this is the case we are back to working on you!!!!!

You need help from your H in getting you emotionally back into this M.

Maybe this could be a place to start.

Try filling out the emotional needs questionnaire (and have your husband fill one out) and start meeting each others emotional needs while avoiding love busters.

Find out what are your boundaries for remaining in this M are so he knows what not to do or change as well. The things that are driving you away from your M at this point.

Get him working on this with you!!!!!!!!!!!

Again from what you describe he seems happy in your M and just simply doesn't understand why you are not. Remember we men are not subtle. We are totally dense in interpreting the subtleties in our wive's thinking and understanding her emotions are simply out of the question.

But with the right size 2x4 we can be made to wake up.

BTW: Listen to Larry. He seems wise beyond his years. His perspectives on this stuff are uncannily accurate Read some of his other posts and see if you don't agree.


PS. Start working on yourself as well. Figure out who it is you want to be and work to be that person. I believe you can only really be happy when you are that person or are at least working toward that goal

Reading your story about how the OW contacted him, and he didn’t tell you, and then you even went for counseling together and he still didn’t tell you, I can see why you are upset, and feeling spent. You should feel spent!!

I still maintain that you should not dump him – I still see hope – and even if you did get a D you would likely end up with another man, who had other issues that need to be worked on as well.

But – I totally see where you are coming from. You were getting hang up calls! You have all ready been betrayed from him – and here you are getting hang up calls, and someone is driving by, and you are afraid you are going crazy! So your H suggest counseling – which was a great idea, but he still never says a word to you. That first time she called he could have said to you “guees who called” but he didn’t. Then, when she kept calling, he should have said to her “look – I can not talk to you any more. I am sorry. I need to protect my wife”. But he didn’t. and you say that they “never got out of the car”. Does that meant that they were sitting in their cars, side bys die, talking? So, in other words, they arranged to pull over in some parking lot, park their cars, and talk? I am glad they didn’t get out of their cars, but still!!!! Dog gone it, what in the heck was he doing??/

I think the point here is this – He still is not protecting you from harm. He allowed the woman to call you and hang up. He allowed her to drive by and stalk you house. And he never even told you what was going on, so you could protect yourself.

I totally understand why you are upset.

I do believe this can be fixed – but I think you need some sort of serious action. I don’t really think you need to just “work on your own attitude” or “get over it all ready”. Your H needs to start protecting you! What he did was not OK.

Totally agree with WOF!!!


Use that 2x4......... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Thanks again for your replys,

WOF- Only I was getting the Hang-up calls. Most of the time this happened when my husband was not home. He himself, never answered the phone. It was more than obvious that this was xOW.
The number that called was always unlisted except for the one time when xOW number appeared on "my" cellphone. This is when I knew for sure that it was her.

My husband and I phoned her back and my husband yelled into her "Answering machine" that she should leave us alone..........he only "forgot" to tell me that they had seen each other a few times before this incident.

They didn't meet at a parking lot........just on the road driving past one another. They didn't get out of their cars.
This is what my husband tells me............and this is what gets me thinking. If it really was this harmless, then why in the world didn't he just tell me???

We had a talk last night............but somehow, I really can't say that I feel any better.

----------------------------------------------------------------
I really do feel like a "Ripped -off Buyer"........

I've decided that right now, I'm going to let this all go.....I'm going to concentrate on "me" and I'm going to put my energy into "me".
I'm not considering "divorce".........I just can't do that.

It's helped me to read all of your posts...........thank you.

bb

JustKeepGoin

It seems as if you have, for the most part, eliminated an ongoing A.
are you saying that you believe that the affair was going on the whole time???

My husband swears that there was NO contact throughout the first 3 years.........xOW intiated contact when OWH threw her out of the house and filled for divorce.

What does Steve Harley say about this?? Does this mean that even if xOW intiated contact with my husband that the affair wasn't ended??
The fact that my husband lied to me and didn't inform me about this contact........does that mean that the affair was starting up again???

bb
bb

Orchid: It means the OW isn't done with having an A. She appears to have been trying to revive the A. The question is: Is the WS dead?


Orchid: NO, it means your H betrayed your trust. Bet he doesn't see it as a lie, so ask him what does he see it as and is it ok for u t/d it to him? If he says yes, then kick him where it hurts......by going shopping. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Buy something big and expensive....like a car. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.

Orchid,

he does see it as a lie, he just doesn't know/understand "why" he didn't inform me.

Remember though...........this happened almost 3 years ago. Since then there has only been "hang-up calls"..........my gut is calm and I don't feel as if anything is going on.

What creeps me from time to time is that I have never experienced that my husband has ever "opened up" volunteerly. He has only admitted things when my "gut" was screaming and I had to pull it out of his nose!!!!! And believe me.............his nose has grown alot, the past few years!!!!!

On other side, I'm sure that my husband "woke up" and saw how "needy" xOW was..............we had a good talk with xOWH and it was more than obvious that xOW needed $$$$$ and a place to "comfort her $SS"...........so it would of been a good thing for "her" if my husband would of fell for her again. My husband was also informed by xOWH that he was not the "only" one.............only one out of a few.
This is when I truely believe that the WS died...........he must of felt like a complete GOOF!

But I DID get a NEW car!!!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

bb

Orchid: Ok, give him that point but he doesn't see the degree of how serious his lie is affecting you. This is what a WS does. Mine did and I had to bring it to his attention, with plan B in the background.

I periodically get queesy thinking about the A. Insecure and sick. It is my H's job to help me through this. Does it happen often? No. But it can and does happen. Triggers? C/b anything, even the ring of a nextel phone.

What I needed was reassurance. What he failed to realize is that I needed reassurance. Over and over until I was over it. I showed him I required reassurance and if wasn't man enough to give it, then I'd have to get it elsewhere. Never had to define it but if I needed to, I know I could have gotten it from 'many sources'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: With the hang up calls, the 3 years don't count. Why? Because you still live in the environment subject to or which created your insecurity. Even if your gut is calm (which I don't believe it really is), you are angry that he does not reassure you.

I told mine, he either better learn t/b a real good liar (which he never was) or learn how to make me feel safe and secure and mean it. Sincerity was his challenge. Mine was practicing patience. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: Then you ought to let him know how he is failing at winning your trust back. Trust, that's a bigger word to project than anything. It is a requirement in love but to those how have lost the trust, it is a challenge to get it back in your life.

The funny thing is that trust is not as feeling of an emotion as 'love'. Love is misconstrued in the A but trust never is. You either trust or not. NO 1/2 way mark. Anything less is not trust. Trust is an easier goal for the WS to focus on. It does not get misconstrued as much as love does. It is a good tool for a BS to use when dealing with recovery. I made it one of my points of recovery. H had to regain MY trust in him.


Orchid: They all eventually wake up or are dead. So now that others are showing him what a lousy choice the OW was, you'd think he'd be grateful for having his but saved. Betcha he has his moments of regrett and you know it. That c/b what makes you hurt even more.

In our case the OW took the Xws to court with a phone RO charge. She thought it would be in her favor but it backfired. I sat in that courtroom and watched the judge basically call her incompetent for her charges but in the end realized it w/b best if both were separated so he required BOTH adhere to the NC via the RO. LOL!!! The only thing I regret is that the OW didn't have to pay for the RO. Her charges were false but she got it for free because she claimed abuse and domestic violence. Oh well, I know she it nuts and feel safe thousands of miles away from that nut case.


Orchid: Good. Don't stop there. I know we s/b economical but when mine does something stupid, I don't suffer, I shop. LOL!!! Mind you, I am not an extravagant person, so when I go do something like that he worries. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It is good for an Xws to periodically worry. When he does he is forced to show care which eventually should come more willingly.

When the selfish side of my H shows up, I pull out plan B or show the Xws my counter attack. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Helps put in back in a sane mode. One that is healthy for all of us.

take care,
L.

Hi BB

I believe that a BS is forever actually CHANGED by being a BS. The reality from pre- A is never again achievable.

I had to let go of my hope or expectation that my life would ever be as free of triggers, hurt and resentment than it was pre-A.

I liken infidelity to a terrible car accident. You may recover from the accident but any physical damage done :any incapacity caused as a result of the accident has to be worked around because its an immovable consequence of the accident.

In the case of infidelity, its worse because the damage we suffer is attech hand of the one we love most, and was quite, quite avoidable. Devastation almost casually visited upon us.

I am not left with a limb missing or sight missing ( though I do have some physical consequences of that time) but I have other consequences JUST as disabling, JUST as permanent.

I am just getting on with life just like folks with unchangeable phyical consequences of life events do. I can't wait for them to dissapear before giving myself permission to be happy.

I have less triggers as time goes by , but I doubt I will ever be free of them.

Thing that I realised only recently is that however uniquely crippled I feel, MOST folks are affected by infidelity. MOST. I was unusual the way I was before the affair - free of such hurt, not now.

All blessings.

Orchid

When the selfish side of my H shows up, I pull out plan B or show the Xws my counter attack.

please explain this with details, so I can understand it better.

bb

Bob,

Thing that I realised only recently is that however uniquely crippled I feel, MOST folks are affected by infidelity. MOST. I was unusual the way I was before the affair - free of such hurt, not now.

I can relate with you......................geeeeeeeeeezzzzz

My husband tells me from time to time that he misses the "unhurt" person I used to be and it hurts him terribly that he is the cause and that he will probably never see "her" again..........at least not to the extent that it used to be like. I'm not giving up though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

bb

I can remember having a sudden clarity of thought during the months when I had become absolutely certain that my husband had had an affair, but before he would actually admit it.

That clarity of thought was that the affair itself was bad, but that what was unforgivable was his decision to gaslight me to such an extent that I sought counseling to deal with my "paranoia".

The affair might have been all about the affair partners and not about me, but those lies and manipulations and the attempts to pathologize me were a direct assault on me. By the person who should have been protecting me.

I would bet in your case BB that the real root of your feelings now is your husband's willingness to sacrifice you to cover his ten minutes of interaction with the OW (if indeed that is all it was.) He was willing to take away your belief in yourself to protect himself and his mistakes.

That is what you need to work on, IMO. Or, rather, that is what your H needs to work on. He needs to figure out why he was willing to make you think you had a problem that requied counseling, rather than admitting that he had screwed up and renewed contact.

He is going to have to step out of his comfort zone to help you recover from the affair and then the subsequent betrayal. That means finding a way to be open as he has not been in the past and changing whatever is in him that allowed such a blatant betrayal so long after the affair ended and you believed yourselves recovered.

One of the ways my husband learned to do that was through a technique taught at Retrouvaille, a weekend retreat for married couples with problems sponsored by the Catholic church (but not religious in orientation). It was amazingly helpful to us.