My wife wants me out ASAP. 2 children 7 and 4. I want counseling and so does she, however I believe a separation will cause a rift in the family and will not help things. Is counseling effective while separated?

My contention is that if apart, we will not be able to work on things actively, therefore doing no real good.

She feels she needs me out to have feelings for me again. There was no infidelity, just a pattern of treating each other like total crap. We don't want the kids to be affected, but will the separation affect them more than seeing their parents treat each other like ******?

I'm trying my hardest to work it out, being sincere, yet I have a cold shoulder only from my wife.

Well, the problem is if you flat out refuse to move, she’ll see that as you don’t care about her well-being. Go get a book called “Should I Stay or Should I Go? How a Controlled Separation Can Save Your Marriage.” You can use this to negotiate the terms of the separation. That way, you both can get what you need.

Then, read up on this site. The whole thing. My guess is if she wants you out LoveBusters are a big problem.

What's this?

OK I found out what Love Busters are.....you're right.

Click on the link to the right or do a search, the Love Busters are Dr. Harleys list of what not to do in a marriage... Read through the basic info on this site, you came to a very good place with "common sense" techniques and advice so take advantage of it. Your wife might be open to reading some of Harley's books, or other books on marriage? If you treated each other like total crap for a long time you are what he'd call bankrupt and he has techniques on what both of you can do - basically putting accounts into your marriage if at all possible. Some shrinks would say that if you leave it would be harder to go to counseling because it gives you lesser of a reason to work on the marriage, for others space is necessary to make a decision. Last night I happened to catch the old Bruce Willis and Michelle Phifer (sp) moving about breaking up and reconciling. It was funny on one hand all of the opinions as their marriage fell apart. He left, was alone, she started to finally after the anger and hate remember the good times, what brought them together, the babies, the kids, the family... and in the end they worked it out. One of his friends at some point in the movie after the Bruce Willis character said it's come to hate - said hate fades. It does seem that there's some battle couples get stuck in when they are in the middle of the field - at war - and when you are at war it's hard to see as you are just blasting one another. That somehow has to stop, to continue will make chances for reconciliation worse. If separation is necessary to stop the battling then do it. You could just do the Bruce Willis character thing and go get a room somewhere, a month to month deal if you have to. Furnished. Cheap. Set some rules if so, the book mentioned above is the best on that, a plan to meet, date, chat, get space, whatever she and you need.

And guess what? We're here for you. I forgot to say "Welcome. Sorry you're here, but here is a good place to be."

Consider it said.

Please give us an update on what you decide to do. The Emotional Needs area has some great people on it and gets a lot more action, but most of us on this board have been on EN or GQII before we got here.

We know the drill, you could say.

OMG! I just looked at when I registered and did the math. That's 5 and a half years! Wow. In Internet age, that makes me... 105? LOL.

Do beware. Just because some of us have been around a while doesn't make us wise. It may make you wonder why we're still here putting in our 2 cents.

Thanks.

Yesterday my wife just got a job for a lending company and she's excited! She works from 10-7 and will be earning commissions on loans. She said to me last night "I don't think you need to move out. I'll need your help." OMG!!!!

I said "Really, you need me?" and we smiled together.

I also went to my first AA meeting last night. (I binge drink on weekends...no weekday drinking, but it's still alcoholism. I was a daily drinker til about 3 mos ago.) and shared my experience with her.

I told her I was proud of her for getting her job, and she said she is proud of me for going to the meeting.

It looks like these dynamics have the opportunity to re-ignite our relationship, and help me grow stronger and more responsible for myself as well.

We also found a local counseler to see.

I feel great right now. I feel I've been offered a gift of opportunity!!!

Thanks everyone. I'll keep you updated as time goes by.

Congrats on going to AA. Some great people here are in recovery. I'm thinking LostHusband who still posts sometimes.

Just don't become complacent with movement you've made. You need to build on this to gain momentum. If you don't, and things go back to the way they were before... the result will be a much greater loss of hope and love.

Where is the line of drinking daily and being an alcoholic. My husband drank every night and on weekends, I think it was a problem in our marriage. That took real courage to go to a meeting and admit at least that it would show support of your wife, many like my ex won't even get to that point - of quitting for the sake of their marriage, meaning alcohol is more important. My husband wants to reconcile and if alchol was a contributing factor or not, I don't want it in the house - at least not all week long. I was guilty of drinking with him on weekends, sometimes too much and I just don't want that anymore.

Even if you have a good counselor I would - and most on this site too - recommend you read Harley's books and the material on this site. Not all counselors offer practical advice and he sure does have a common sense approach. Marriage isn't easy and knowledge is power.

Congratulations for moving in the right direction, keep everyone here posting, you found a great place to chat, vent and learn.

I've fooled myself into thinking that if I was only a weekend drinker I had no problem, therefore it shouldn't be a problem in my marriage. I can't justify it that way any longer. I've been able to control my alcoholism by only drinking on weekends, but then where does that lead me? It leads me into being unavailable to my wife and kids on my days off! Even though I have a good job, house cars etc., it is no excuse.

In these meetings I am learning a lot about myself, and learning to look inward at becoming a better person, hence father and husband.

I have been reading up here and my knowledge attained here, conseling and AA are already creating benefits in just 2 days. I feel like this can be saved now. Not just my marriage, but myself too. Sober 4 days now.

Yeah! 4 days. That’s great.

I listen to Glenn Beck on the radio whenever I get a chance. He’s a recovering alcoholic who lost it all. He was on top of the world and crashed and burned. Had a complete break down on air about ten years ago. I love some of the things he said about recovery.

One thing he said is after he stopped drinking, he became horribly depressed. All those issues that led to him drinking, were still there. (Wandering spouses see this when they end the affair. All the issues that made the affair look like a good option are still there to deal with.) Glenn told how he was suicidal and had to go on anti-depressants for a while.

The other thing he says is when you least expect it, that desire and need for a drink will seize and you’ll find yourself rationalizing why you could have that one drink. Obviously, you must not give into to this. Glenn says he gets the cravings even after being sober for years and years.

I'm proud of you

Yes Thank you!

Had a talk last night. Since she just got her job from 12-7 pm we've been having logistical issues with the kids. I come home and pick them up at 5:30 from 2 different spots where friends from school took them home after school. Every day we must ask multiple people to help with the kids while we work. My morning routine is the same but now my evenings are tough. I have to get the kids, cook, clean, homework, bath myself.

Scene:

Me: So what's the permanent solution to the kids? We can't keep relying on all these people to do our stuff for us.

Her: (BLOWUP) Don't worry about it, you don't have anything to do with it so stop complaining -followed by rants about how I'm negative etc.

I listened and tried to explain I was not pointing out how it's dificult for me, but that sooner or later we need a steady permanent solution and why do you have to blow up on me?

Well she said she does not feel "it" with me

Does not trust me

Does not want to make me happy

Feels indifference toward me and that's the opposite of love.

Said she is protecting herself by showing me nothing because if she does, then I'll just go back into my old ways AGAIN. I understood this and accepted her views as much as it hurt me.

I'm in second chance mode, but it's soooo hard to work on serving her emotional needs when it's blown off each and every time. How do I get myself in a spot where this gets better? I asked her what her needs were and she told me that does not matter and I need to change myself first.

She told me that I need not try and serve her needs as she has been emotionally independant for 2 years! Now she is getting her financial independance and will be ready to get out if she has to.

She says nothing I say means anything to her. I've been hitting the chores like mad and doing little things for her to no avail.

This is going to be a Looong road............................ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

5 days.

A preacher once said it takes 10 positives to undo one negative, if damage was done it'll take some time to rebuild. You are turning around, she doesn't believe it and the change has come when in her mind she was doing her own plan b. My husband was drinking and ignoring me, finally I left him, he just expected me to come back. The last six months he's been doing his "so called" turnaround. It's harder for me, I don't live with the guy, he's a few states away so I don't even have enough information to judge the situation by. But I know I don't trust alcohol, I know how it destroys and I know how hard it is to quit.

As long as there's no abuse going on and you are determined to quit drinking, it's likely best that you stay right where you are in the house - go to counseling - read and read now ways of communicating - and see if time/a new track record doesn't help. If she does shoot her mouth off at you, try not to shoot back as that's what we all want to do during such arguments. It is true - a discussion on the emotional needs part of this site - this is typical stuff. Man sits in basement drinking, is tired from work, doesn't help with the kids, wonders why his wife doesn't show his love and have sex with him, her love for him dies, and the power struggles go on and on... perhaps you can show us all how it's done here.

Guess since she got a job with later hours and has been struggling to handle the kids before - was she - then she feels it's your turn? I don't know, women seem to juggle a whole lot of things - kids, cook, clean, homework, bath, you name it... until a man is stuck in the thick of it when his wife is gone, I don't think he realizes how much work it really is, kids and life, if a woman's working or not. As a woman I had no clue until my one little alien was born. I was so exhausted trying to do it all - and my ex told me constantly I did nothing. Now maybe you'll respect some of what your wife's been doing in the past.

Personally I think we are all overworked - if two parents are both working full time long hours there's little time for the kids, let alone the 10-15 hours of tiime to put into a marriage. We are all mostly running on exhaustion. Sometimes I think my mom's era was better, women stayed home, there wasn't the war between men and women - there were roles without the competition. Women are tired of being disrespected when they do stay at home with the kids for the most part men are unappreciative, and their time doesn't count as much as the man's - and to a lot of men they have the "right" as breadwinners to hit the basement, pop the beer and ignore their families.

I'm talking in circles, just some major generalizations... I'm beat from all of this myself. The arguments just seem to go round and round.

If you really are an alcoholic, one more thought it that your wife could be partially right - fix yourself and that problem first and foremost. My husband and I went to counseling but with the abuse of alcohol in our home - and all of the problems that go with it, nothing could be resolved. Some on this site who were experienced with the issue of alcoholism did say it's a disease and would have to be treated before the marriage could be repaired. If you've read enough of the AA books, you'll see their thoughts on it as well. I did go read up, I didn't see my husband as an alcoholic but he likely was and is. There seems to be major mood swings and a personality that goes with this, he would swing from one end to the other. If you've been drinking a lot your wife has seen this - when you are up you are up and willing to help her and work on the marriage, when you are down you are likely very down - and can't cope with everyday life... hope you stick with your AA meetings, that is very brave of you to even go and admit a problem.

Thanks, and you are both right. I need to fix my problem before I can work on her needs fully. The ripple effect my drinking has caused I do not fully understand yet. I will in time, and eventually I will need to ask her for forgiveness....several months down the road of sobriety and recovery.

And yes, I am running around after work taking care of all the kids' needs, which I'm enjoying, but am realizing how exhausting it really is to do all day long.

I'm committed to AA.

Thanks for the support.

5 days and counting

Make sure to pace yourself. Pacing is important.

I still think you are so brave to go to your meetings and admit this, my best friend from college married an alcoholic. He was abusive in their marriage and I even moved her to my state for a time. That was his "wakeup" too. She emailed me during the absolute worst periods of my marriage, when I was finally leaving my husband who was a drinker - the counselor we were seeing later apologized and said she missed "it." It was that he had likely become an alcoholic throughout the course of our marriage. In the end it was awful, his drinks were more important then his newborn baby, then his jobs - he lost two in just three years - and anything else. I didn't see it either, I didn't know the signs, like you I saw him as a casual drinker. But I read the AA books and casual drinkers like him are right on the edge of becoming an alcholic, scary thing is I used to drink with him while dating and on weekends, a counselor said of course he pushed alcohol on me constantly as then I wouldn't complain about his own drinking. Women can be drug into this and it takes them half the times to become one, I didn't of course but it's true in the end he was drinking every single night of the week and not just a drink or two like before - entire bottles of wine were missing I started noticing. Hard liquor I couldn't guage as well as he had so many bottles in the basement and would just fill up drink after drink. I think it's called a "dry" drunk as he never acted drunk, he was very much in control. My best friends' husband she said was one of the few that recovered from this. They went to years of AA meetings and she's firm to this day if there's even a drop in their house, she'll take the three kids and leave that day. I don't think alcoholics understand typically even that they are one, let alone the impact on their families. My husband in the end would stomp around after work, ignoring me and his young baby - and looking back I think it was the alcohol, he'd get 2-3 drinks in him then he'd calm down. My friend's husband actually apologized to me years later when I visited their home, I think it's a part of what AA teaches you - and he meant it. He wasn't even the same pig she had been married to him in the early years. He was such a good father. Today he's helping with the three kids so she can go back to medical school at our age 38, she's my hero but I think he's so cool too as he does everything in the home to support her through this. She has a year left. There are good endings to these stories and I hope yours is a good one.

Thanks Horsey. Yes you are right. I hid my liquor in the garage, in my toolbax, truck, sleeping bags etc. I thought I'd get clever and buy a bottle of jack and a six pack of Sierra. The sierra was visible in the fridge. I'd have 1 or 2 so my wife thought i was cutting way back.....only I was shooting Jack in the garage and I drank more and more. I was a functioning drunk too, but we become very irritated when things like kids and family get in the way of our drinking plans.

The AA priciple is to admit, surrender and look inside at all the things you remember doing, and right them as your friends husband did. Additionally we must help other alchies get sober. It's a lifetime commitment.

9 days now, but it feels like weeks. I live now to help my wife and kids and pay genuine attention to them. It feels great.

So you made it through the weekend. Congrats, etc.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Green. It was not that hard actually. I even poured my mom and Grandmother a few glasses of wine with no desire. AA really works for me.

As far as my marriage goes I have received some affection from the wife, such as smiles, and even a kiss! I'm focused on domestic help now as most of the EN's are off limits to try since it's too soon yet. It also seems a little fake with a 100% turnaround, but it will come with time I hope.

I don't argue with her, don't sulk when she ignores me and admit to my wrongs whenever they are percieved that way from my wife.

I said "I love you" this morning and all I got was an "OK Bye". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />