I'm hoping others here can give MP & I some insight to a situation we're facing.

BIL and his wife have run afoul of the law (possesion of Meth), and since it occurred in their home where their 2 kids (boys 1 and 2) live, they're also facing child endagerment charges.

They were originally busted in August, and the boys were in the custody of BIL's wife's mom and dad, who lived next door. DHS had cleared them to regain custody of their children, and from all accounts they were behaving themselves. Unfortunately, BIL and his MIL got into an argument the Sunday before Thanksgiving. BIL wanted sometime with older son, since he'd had younger son all day. We don't know all the details, but apparently BIL got upset and MIL felt threatened and called the cops.

The cops showed up, and there were people living with BIL and his wife again (violation of parole on that one), and one of the people living there had drug paraphenalia. BIL and wife also admitted to using Meth a few days prior after BIL's wife got into it with her mother.

So off to jail for both. The DA is offering a plea - 8-12 months in boot camp, or if it goes to trial and they're found guilty, a minimum of 30 months prison time.

DHS is working on certifying the MIL and FIL to have custody of the kids, but that's not guaranteed yet, and MP and I both have reservations about her suitability to the task.

We have visited MIL and FIL, and the boys seem to be doing ok, but the house is definately not child proof. There's a very strong odor throughout the house of cat urine, and there are 2 litter boxes that are easily accessible to both boys. The room they've been staying in for the last 3 months has 2 mattresses leaning against one wall and is generally cluttered.

So here's the situation as it applies to MP and I. We are the only other family in the area that could conceivably take the boys. However, the older boy is not BIL's biological child, and he has not yet adopted him, so he has very little (in this state) legal rights regarding him. DHS is looking at MIL & FIL because they have closer ties (legally and blood), plus they've been there for 3 months already.

MP would like very much to get the boys - at least the younger one, if not both. To be honest, I think MP would do great with them. She's excellent with the 5 and under crowd (she's good in general with kids, but really likes the younger set). She ran an in-home daycare for 2 years (closed it last year), and is state-certified and has tons of training.

I'm concerned about the financial impact (taking both boys would require MP to stay at home, since we can't afford daycare for 3 kids, and we're at a point right now we're we can really use her extra income). I'm also concerned about the impact to our family in terms of being able to give attention to the kids.

Finally, I'm concerned about the impact to MP and I's recovery, in terms of getting time to spend together without the kids (which is already hard enough with just two kids).

I'm all for helping extended family, but not at the expense of immediate family. As I've told MP, my #1 concern is her and our 2 kids.

MP is willing to do as much as possible to help extended family, and feels that if we take the kids we can overcome my concerns, but I'm not so sure.

So, in a nutshell, we'd like advice and/or input on what to do (or even what to expect) in the case we do get the kids (one or both). What pitfalls can we expect in terms of our recovery and general family stuff? Thanks.

Bird - I would be very careful taking on more. How are you and MP doing these days? NC 6/2 - very recent. How are you doing on the 15 hours a week of undivided attention now?

Just things to consider.

Hi BK -

We're definately in a better spot than we were this time last year. We're both more aware of our actions towards each other, and realize when we start to slip into our pre-A mode of operation. There is genuine affection from her, something that was rare to non-existent even 8 months ago, and I'm beginning to rebuild my trust in her. I'm getting a handle on my anger issues, but I still need to work on showing her physical affection.

Our current focus (IMO) is on those areas of our M that left it vulnerable to the A. For me, the A is the white elephant in the room. It has not, to my satisfaction, been dealt with, but I realize that MP is probably not yet at a point where she can deal with it (apparent lack of remorse or regret, and a general feeling that there is still some justification in her mind - but I could be wrong). I'd also like her to get into IC herself, as she's got a lot of pressure and stress and is not yet willing or able to open up to me about it. This mess with BIL and his wife is just adding more stress.

So yes, we have tons of work left to do. I haven't charted our time together (though I think I will so I can see where we're at), but I doubt it's 15 hours/week yet. We have lately managed to get an hour or 2/day, part of that during our nightly devotions and prayer.

I am very concerned about the potential impact of taking on one or 2 more kids, especially when it comes to our recovery. Quality time with her is probably my most important need, and kids have a wonderful way of making that difficult. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm really torn on this issue. On the one hand, I don't want the kids to wind up as wards of the state, even if it's for a specified period of time. On the other hand, a large part of me resents the fact that I'm being (potentially) put in this position because of another adult's stupidity. And I worry about the effect the stress this is causing will have on our relationship.

It's a heck of a situation to be in. It's not even a guarantee that the kids would come to us, but it is a possibility that I feel needs to be thoroughly discussed and examined, and if need be, plans put in place as to how we'll handle it.

MP does know that taking on the kids will be a disaster if I'm not in favor of it. My fear, silly as it is, is that if I find myself unable to extend that much of a helping hand MP will resent me for it.

We are struggling to remain open to God's will in all of this, but it's hard for me to submit to God if He says take the kids. Guess that's an issue of faith for me.

How's that for a long answer to a short question? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think it is MUCH too early in recovery to take on more kids. My WH and I raised 6, and there was no time for ANYTHING. I would POJA this with your wife.

Hopefully the courts will require a home visit, and those issues will be fixed. Or you and your wife could spend a weekend helping to get the house "child-ready".

Also if you live close enough, it would be great to include the kids on family outtings and overnight visits.

Hi believer -

I hadn't thought about offering to help MIL and FIL fix up their house so it'd be child-proof. Definately something to consider, if the courts leave custody with them.

We live about an hour away, but it's definately close enough to do things with the boys. MIL is going to be up in our area next week for a conference, and said she might be able to bring the boys up so they can play with their cousins. She also invited us to stop by on Christmas (we'll be in their area visiting other family that day).

They do seem receptive to allowing us access to the kids, so that's definately a plus.

And yes, this is definately a POJA issue.

Hi healingbird-
I think you are being very clear headed about the situation and are approaching it the right way. You are correct to be concerned that the boys may take precious time away from your marriage recovery.

I think the idea to help make MIL/FIL's home more child safe is really good. Another possibility is sharing the burden. Could your in-laws be used as a sort of free "day care" for the boys while your wife works, then come to your home at night? Also your in-laws may be able to babysit some evenings or weekend afternoons to allow you and your wife more time for undivided attention.

In our neighborhood we have a babysitting co-op that provides free babysitting for members. We exchange "time" instead of money. It's great; my husband and I get more opportunities to go out now. Is there anything like that around you? Are there any resources available in your church for help with childcare?

Just some ideas... my best wishes are with you healingbird.

I would just wait and watch. See what happens next.

Also offer to help out however you can, and include the kids in family things.

Two extra kids is a BIG responsibility! Some states will now pay for relatives to take in family, and some refuse. But even if your state paid, you are looking at a HUGE change for your family.

Very pleased to hear this Bird.


Interesting. I would say that we were 6 months into recovery before I was really convinced my wife actually "got it" and it is probably 6 months since I last saw foggy thinking from her (even only slightly)

I could be wrong but I wouldn't sweat on her remorse/regret at this time. She will get it as recovery progresses.


I suggest you have to get this basic right before you even consider adding any more stress.


I totally understand your take on this.


I think Pre-Affair, my wife would have reacted similarly. Even now, prioritising "us" is sometimes difficult for her but she is doing much better now.


Excellent Bird. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Whatever you do, Please don't allow the children to be split apart. this happened in my family when I was about 12, with my young nieces. They are both grown now and in their 30s but they have never been close since being divided and it has had far-reaching repercussions throughout the entire extended family and negatively impacted both childrens lives, in ways they still struggle with to this day.

Hi Saturn -


Well, the in-laws live about an hour away and work (they have BIL's sons with a babysitter), so using them for daycare wouldn't be practical on a daily basis. We don't know them very well, and have some reservations about them (well, MIL; I met FIL for the first time last weekend, and while he's gruff and direct, he's also straight-forward and I believe he genuinely cares for BIL's wife, which is his daughter).


MP has tried to start some babysitting co-ops, but the attempts have not been successful. We're in the process of possibly changing churches, but we have met a few people that can babysit for us, in addition to the 1 or 2 we already had. At some point I hope DS (who's 12 right now) will be able to watch his sister (4), but he's not quite there yet. Of course, as I told MP, I'd be willing to pay him (at least some of the time), since I don't want him to feel that we view him as some sort of free resource or slave <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Thanks for the ideas and well wishes. I do appreciate them. How are you and your DH doing?

10Swords -

Ideally we would not want the boys split up. Fortunately, at least in the state we live in, they do everything they can to prevent siblings from being split up.

Ironically, that was one of my greatest fears if MP and I hadn't been able to move into recovery and went to Plan D. My DS is my step-son (a term that I don't particularly like and rarely use), while DD is biologically mine. I would not want our kids split up, but with no legal right to my son in the eyes of the state, the odds of keeping custody of both of them for me were pretty low (our state doesn't care about infidelity in divorce cases). It could have turned into a very nasty fight, since my DD is the closest flesh and blood I have left (both my parents are deceased), and I would die before giving up custody of her.

Fortunately, Plan D does not appear anywhere in my life plans at this point <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And MP and I have talked recently about the need to establish, at the very least, guardianship for me with our son. Ultimately it would be adoption (his biological father is ok with me adopting him, and last time we talked so was our son - as long as he could keep his current last name <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />).

So yes, I understand and share your concern about the kids being split up, and so does MP. A good deal of that is beyond our control, but I honestly believe that if we wound up taking the kids, it would be both, not just one.

BK -


You are right on this. Does having lunch together count as part of the 15 hours?

The reason I ask is this. MP has been working PT (evenings) for the last month through a temp agency. She's just started a full time job with the same company, and it will last through the next 4 or 5 months at least, probably longer.

This morning she called and asked if I could take her to get some lunch, because she had forgotten and didn't have anyone to give her a ride. I said sure. I knew she worked near where I work, but when I went to get her, I realized that she works literally across the street from my office (there's a ton of small office complexes in my area).

This means that we could conceivably have lunch together 5 days a week. She only gets 30 minutes, but being so close we can get the whole 30 together. That would account for 2-1/2 hours of the 15 - all without the expense of needing a sitter (since DS is in school and DD is in daycare).

I thought that was pretty cool (us working essentially next door to each other), and so did she.

So, while not exactly on-topic for this thread, what do you think?

It's rather interesting...in the last year MP has had 3 jobs. Each job has paid more than the last, and each job has been closer to home than the last. In the meantime, my quest to find a new job has gotten nowhere, leaving me right where I am. Which, coincidentally, is right next to my lovely wife. I'm wondering if it would be a stretch to see God's hand in this? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LOL Bird. I would consider it as part of the 15 hours. Cool.

I see God's hand in this.